The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Countertrey wrote:in fairness, JSPB has "gotten" me a time or two, as well...

You said you'd never tell anyone about that!?!

^^apparently you never read the story of the fox and the snake...


sssssssssssss.

Is that like the frog and the scorpion?

Deadskins wrote:Is that like the frog and the scorpion?

Yes... except with a fox and a snake...

rskin72 wrote:Red_One43.....Rg All....

WRT your comment on 4 picks used for RGIII....yes, there were 4 picks used....one was a trade UP of 4 draft spots....and the others were actual picks that we gave up.

thank you. lets move on from this already.

and I disagree completely with the assertion that the Redskins Roster is among the least talented.

it has been. i will say it appears to be getting better but it does have a ways to go.

I would promote the premise that our roster is skewing younger and faster, and that once we learn to play together as a team, we will be very dangerous vice the cellar dwellar we have been in the past several seasons.

well, allright, ill agree with that. but one thing i do want to say to any redskin fan is this whole "once we do this" or "once we do that". Ive heard that comment from redskin fans in particular.....forever.

while you wait for a moment to come to fruition, every single season there is not one but a couple of teams rising up and getting it done.

at some point, it just has to happen. it cant be this perpetual "just wait, you'll see" because in the NFL, you got to win or regimes change, important people get fired or they get burnt out from losing and quit and youre starting all over again.

So Ill say this: start winning and start winning now!

the bengals, the friggin cincinatti bengals went to the playoffs last year with a rookie qb who wasn't quite as touted as washington's qb. look where the jets went with a rookie qb a few years ago. the falcons a few years ago with Matt Ryan.

enough with the excuses, enough with the decade long "just wait till we gel" speech, the NFL nowadays teams can turn it around and win quickly, even with rookie qbs. for a lot of people over ther, it's year 3 not year 1, enough with the excuse making of tough division and all that.

you know what. start winning now. period.

And...I understand that there will be skeptics on theRGIII move.....but I expect to hear the hard criticism on NFL and ESPN sites...not a Redskin homer site.

cmon....what is this....censorship? Yes, God I'll refrain. Snyder for emporer!

With your last couple of comments, we get to the root of the issue...you believe that our owner the the root all of evil.

indeed.

I choose to believe that, after a decade or more of growing pains, he has come to realize how to build a WINNING team means the owner selects a top notch front office, GM, coach...then lets them do the heavy lifting (something Jerry Jones has yet to realize).

no. that's what you want to believe. the reality is he knows that too. its when the chips are down and things arent going right where issues with this guy comes up.

just because he hasnt done anything crazy in what......two lousy years of his life?!?........doesnt mean he is a changed man. I hear that alot from skins people. he's "learned" he's "changed"

you know, for the most part, people are who they are. they dont take turn over new leafs and reinvent themselves as completely different people. its not all that long ago he was banning signs in the stadium (because they were embarrasing to him) and hiring bingo announcers to call plays for the head coach. he was supposed to be changed before all that happened, according to many skins fans throughout 2004-2007.

The Skins owner spends money on his team, unlike many other teams/owners who just talk a good game.

that's been one of his great faults.

The key has always been to have Snyder spend money correctly....and Cerrato was a puppet who had no clue.

thats snyder's fault that cerrato was a puppet with no clue. NOT CERRATO.

Say what you want about Snyder...and I am no puppet for him....but he DOES spend money on his team...

yeah, i know. its the very first (and often only) thing his defenders bring up. we get it, he spends a ton on the team. no one is questioning his desire. i question pretty much everything else and the results are on my side.

So....the question is.....what side of the fence are you going to take.....gloom and doom for the Redskins as long as Snyder is owner....or hope in that the current FO/coach and second pick in this years draft (along with all the other moves that the team has made in the past 3 seasons) will jell into a competitive team that will challenge for playoff spots/NFC championships/Lombardi trophies.

im hoping they do become a winner. no one will believe that, but i dont care. if they do, ill suggest a third side to the fence. Perhaps that side can be described as avoiding the fence alltogether.

And that side can be described as this: a failed, flawed organization incapable of building a team that can compete for the top prize does have one way around this: if they cant build the best organization, they could by one means or another get themselves a franchise qb who catapults the team despite the organizational flaws.

i saw this over a decade ago in indianapolis.

franchise qb. i mean, hell, the redskins have literally tried everything else and have spent maybe hundreds of millions of dollars trying to figure it all out with belt buckle boy leading the way...there's nothing left to try but spend a bunch of draft picks on one player and hope THAT gets it done.

I will say I agree with 99% of what "the poster" wrote above, albeit cherry picking comments to do so. But remember it's not just redskins fans that say "once this" or "once that" but rather all fans of any team tend to fall into this trap. Don't make Redskins fans out to be some kind of special breed in that sense - that is just silly.

I have some influential friends in DC, and they have told me some horror stories about the Redskins organization, from Danny's immature outbursts in meetings to Kyle getting drunk and going to work hungover - and I am talking game day. I am not here to judge them as people, but as professionals it is clear that we still have a long way to go in DC.

And yes, perhaps in spite of it all, like it happened in Indianapolis, we too can overcome with a true franchise QB. Maybe a year or two of greatness, but I just don't see that happening (i.e., conference domination like Indy in the AFC South) in the NFC East.

Kilmer72 wrote:Some just hate and enjoy it. Some people are just plain evil. Things do not go well enough in their lives and they just want to make sure everyone else feel as worthless as themselves. I do not always agree with all here but one thing I know is, we are almost all Redskins fans. There is nothing that will stop it either. Even winning will bring hate. All we can hope for is people like the poster making friends in life that can point him in the right direction.

+1

To the poster.....sorry if some of my quotes are off...still a learning curve there....

it has been. i will say it appears to be getting better but it does have a ways to go.

Concur......

I would promote the premise that our roster is skewing younger and faster, and that once we learn to play together as a team, we will be very dangerous vice the cellar dwellar we have been in the past several seasons.

well, allright, ill agree with that. but one thing i do want to say to any redskin fan is this whole "once we do this" or "once we do that". Ive heard that comment from redskin fans in particular.....forever.

while you wait for a moment to come to fruition, every single season there is not one but a couple of teams rising up and getting it done.

at some point, it just has to happen. it cant be this perpetual "just wait, you'll see" because in the NFL, you got to win or regimes change, important people get fired or they get burnt out from losing and quit and youre starting all over again.

So Ill say this: start winning and start winning now!

the bengals, the friggin cincinatti bengals went to the playoffs last year with a rookie qb who wasn't quite as touted as washington's qb. look where the jets went with a rookie qb a few years ago. the falcons a few years ago with Matt Ryan.

enough with the excuses, enough with the decade long "just wait till we gel" speech, the NFL nowadays teams can turn it around and win quickly, even with rookie qbs. for a lot of people over ther, it's year 3 not year 1, enough with the excuse making of tough division and all that.

you know what. start winning now. period.

Yep, pretty much concur with your rant...and I have made similiar comments to my friends. I could debate the one year wonder teams like the Bucs....or the jerry springer Jets....or the fact that Matt Ryan has yet to achieve a playoff win....but bottom line is that at least they were in the playoffs......even the fact that my team beat the Giants twice is weak, as they won the SB.....

And...I understand that there will be skeptics on theRGIII move.....but I expect to hear the hard criticism on NFL and ESPN sites...not a Redskin homer site.

cmon....what is this....censorship? Yes, God I'll refrain. Snyder for emporer!

Please, lets not be so melodramatic....was almost ready to break out a hanky on that one. Nope, not censoring....just my thoughts. I am not a moderator, so cannot censor you here even if I wanted to, which I do not. Just expect to hear rational arguments here about the Skins.....for better or worse....but arguments from folks that support the team. As you do not currently support the team based on your bias toward ownership....well....to me arguing/debating with you is like arguing with fans of other teams......so not something I would expect on this site.

I choose to believe that, after a decade or more of growing pains, he has come to realize how to build a WINNING team means the owner selects a top notch front office, GM, coach...then lets them do the heavy lifting (something Jerry Jones has yet to realize).

no. that's what you want to believe. the reality is he knows that too. its when the chips are down and things arent going right where issues with this guy comes up.

just because he hasnt done anything crazy in what......two lousy years of his life?!?........doesnt mean he is a changed man. I hear that alot from skins people. he's "learned" he's "changed"

you know, for the most part, people are who they are. they dont take turn over new leafs and reinvent themselves as completely different people. its not all that long ago he was banning signs in the stadium (because they were embarrasing to him) and hiring bingo announcers to call plays for the head coach. he was supposed to be changed before all that happened, according to many skins fans throughout 2004-2007. [/quote}

Ok....I still CHOOSE to believe what I want to BELIEVE, just as you CHOOSE to believe much of what you wrote above. There are some parts of your argument that I will agree with....i.e. the leapord cannot change it's spots....but there are often examples of where people do change with age. We are talking about a fairly successful businessman who was the youngest CEO of a company listed on the NYSE. Cerrato was a chump.....and yes, am well aware of the dumb and dumber posters as I was at that now infamous game...and also of the bingo caller...ie....Sherman Lewis...that was hired to assist Jim Zorn with play calling...because Zorn was in over his ski tips as a head coach. I will say it again...our owner HAS made a LOT of knucklehead moves in his tenure as owner. I see him finally figuring things out vice venturing further into cluelessness.......time will tell who is accurate here.

The Skins owner spends money on his team, unlike many other teams/owners who just talk a good game.

that's been one of his great faults.

True

The key has always been to have Snyder spend money correctly....and Cerrato was a puppet who had no clue.

thats snyder's fault that cerrato was a puppet with no clue. NOT CERRATO.

Diasgree....Cerrato was a clueless dolt who had Snyders ear. I believe time will support my argument...but you can certainly call me wrong if, within the next season or two, we are not 100% better than at anytime while under Cerrato's guidance as GM.

Say what you want about Snyder...and I am no puppet for him....but he DOES spend money on his team...

yeah, i know. its the very first (and often only) thing his defenders bring up. we get it, he spends a ton on the team. no one is questioning his desire. i question pretty much everything else and the results are on my side.

No argument with above statement other than I am not a Snyder homer, but neither a Snyder hater. He is the owner of the team I support, and have supported since '72, however.

So....the question is.....what side of the fence are you going to take.....gloom and doom for the Redskins as long as Snyder is owner....or hope in that the current FO/coach and second pick in this years draft (along with all the other moves that the team has made in the past 3 seasons) will jell into a competitive team that will challenge for playoff spots/NFC championships/Lombardi trophies.

im hoping they do become a winner. no one will believe that, but i dont care. if they do, ill suggest a third side to the fence. Perhaps that side can be described as avoiding the fence alltogether.

And that side can be described as this: a failed, flawed organization incapable of building a team that can compete for the top prize does have one way around this: if they cant build the best organization, they could by one means or another get themselves a franchise qb who catapults the team despite the organizational flaws.

i saw this over a decade ago in indianapolis.

franchise qb. i mean, hell, the redskins have literally tried everything else and have spent maybe hundreds of millions of dollars trying to figure it all out with belt buckle boy leading the way...there's nothing left to try but spend a bunch of draft picks on one player and hope THAT gets it done.

The Colts were a flawed organization with Dungy, Polian and a GM/Coach team??? R u kidding? I would have loved to see Dungy here as a Skins coach. Heck, wish my flawed organization would win a SB and compete in another.

And, exactly what have the Redskins tried? Outside of the Joe Gibbs return.....our motiff was to get big name free agents at the end of their careers, and expect the resultant team to be great. The correct approach of building a team in the FA era has NOT been tried in the Snyder era even under Gibbs II (and yes, I AM a Gibbs homer). We are drafting players that are having significant impacts in their first seasons here.....that alone should tell you something about our talent level when Shanahan took over. Heck, 18 - 19 "new" players this season at position from when Shanny took over two years ago?

To me, really sounds like sour grapes from you. While you begrudgingly acknowledge some good of late, you still default back to discontent. I cannot argue with our track history since Snyder took over. I will even agree wholeheartedly with you on many points you raise. But, at the end of the day.....Many of us see light at the end of the tunnel whereas the light you want us to see is an oncoming train. So, what...if you are correct you get to say "I told you so" on this web forum??? Wow, bragging rights on the site...... Heck, I work with hardcore fans from most every team in the NFC EAST....let lone other NFL teams. I wear REDSKIN shirts, shoes, hard hat, laynard, coats, jackets....etc....to/from work. I even put Redskin Cheerleader pics on computers that I work on as wallpapers. There is NO mistake of which team I support.....regardless of who the owner is (as I cannot choose that). Whether you want to refer to me as a Snyder homer or not...think that almost 40 years of rooting for the Skins would demonstrate that I am not a Snyder puppet, rather a very ardent supporter of my chosen team. Others on this site, I would suppose, are in the same boat.

[quote="]
As you do not currently support the team based on your bias toward ownership....well....to me arguing/debating with you is like arguing with fans of other teams......so not something I would expect on this site.
[/quote]

my bias? boooo. your choice of words infers I am unfairly treating ownership. I am showing prejudice. if that's the case, we'll never agree on that one, that's for sure. that's the old what came first, the chicken or the egg .

The key has always been to have Snyder spend money correctly....and Cerrato was a puppet who had no clue.

thats snyder's fault that cerrato was a puppet with no clue. NOT CERRATO.

Diasgree....Cerrato was a clueless dolt who had Snyders ear. I believe time will support my argument...but you can certainly call me wrong if, within the next season or two, we are not 100% better than at anytime while under Cerrato's guidance as GM.

I think you missed what I was getting at or I didn't explain it correctly. I know cerrato sucks. he's terrible. always has been. but if you're a redskin, you're concern is what happens inside the walls and out on the fields of redskins park.

the person to blame for cerrato is the man who is evaluating cerrato and deeming cerrato to be the person he entrusts to have a major say in the development of his football team.

a piece of trash is a piece of trash regardless if it's sitting on your neighbors lawn or if it's sitting on your lawn. your concern should be making sure you don't decide that that piece of trash bells on your lawn.

that's the problem. at the end of the day, it's Snyder, not cerrato. it's Snyders RESPONSIBILITY to himself and to his customers to hire the right people.

not only did he hire the wrong person in cerrato in 2000, but he REHIREd him in 2002 and in all that time, all the way until 2009 , Snyder never saw a reason to replace him. to me, that speaks volumes not about the ineptitude of cerrato (we already know that) but the owner who needed a whole friggin decade to figure out that he was employing an incompetent.

forget cerrato for a minute. what does that say about the man who is going to be the one and only constant for the next 30 years that he needed a DECADE to figure out that he was paying (handsomely) a "clueless dolt" in a very important organizational role? yeah cerrato sucks. I knew that before he hired him the very first time. a turd is a turd. it's not the turds fault that it is what it is. it is your owners fault for bringing I. this turd and then keeping it for a decade. coincidentally it finally came to end with the dumb and dumber posters. but that's another topic for another day.

No argument with above statement other than I am not a Snyder homer, but neither a Snyder hater. He is the owner of the team I support, and have supported since '72, however.

you do like to give me your fan resume. but anyways, since 72 huh? that's quite a long time. I know what you're getting at.

maybe you'll best understand why there's people like me then who got out for the very fact that weve seen the change for the negative wight his team so much in the past 12 years that we don't even relate it's team with it's rich history.

The Colts were a flawed organization with Dungy, Polian and a GM/Coach team??? R u kidding? I would have loved to see Dungy here as a Skins coach. Heck, wish my flawed organization would win a SB and compete in another.

yes, flawed. before manning they had 3-13, 1-15, 4-12 seasons dotting decade leading up to manning, they were pretty much known as what oh maybe what the rams are thought of nowadays.

one draft pick, manning changed them forever. and Jim mora was the coach at the beg. the point is what they wer before manning.

And, exactly what have the Redskins tried? Outside of the Joe Gibbs return.....our motiff was to get big name free agents at the end of their careers, and expect the resultant team to be great.

are u kidding. everyone outside of this forum will immediately point to the redskins as THEE modern day team who has tried every hair brained trick to build a winner.

2000 - tried to buy the championship
2001 - purposely went in the complete opposite direction, the "disciplined" route with schottenheimer
2002 - wanted to be the team to try out the college genius from the Florida gators
2004 - they lure back arguable the franchise's most famous person
2006 - 2009 - they rollout monster contracts to players including to some making them highest paidplayers ever at their position at the time.
2010 - hiring former 2 time sb champion coach and a gm with roots to redskins history.

you know how many different what I would describe as "tricks" the patriots , steelers and giants combined have tried to get better over that period of time? I dunno one or two. they have 7 Super owl titles.

The correct approach of building a team in the FA era has NOT been tried in the Snyder era even under Gibbs II (and yes, I AM a Gibbs homer).

agreed. all the wrong moves have been done. I see haynewsorth is still hurting the team.

We are drafting players that are having significant impacts in their first seasons here.....that alone should tell you something about our talent level when Shanahan took over. Heck, 18 - 19 "new" players this season at position from when Shanny took over two years ago?

agreed. redskins were garbage when Shan took over. complete garbage, 11-21 since, I'll let you know when I raise them out from garbage state.

To me, really sounds like sour grapes from you.

that's fine. I stand next to the scoreboard. I'm not saying anything that is in conflict with what this team has shown on the field versus their opponents. ultimately, your team needs to back you up on this. your words are hollow when your team is in last place and pickin near the top of the draft every year.

But, at the end of the day.....Many of us see light at the end of the tunnel whereas the light you want us to see is an oncoming train.

ahh, April. just kidding. point is, dude just have your team start backin it up. I hear stories of lights and tunnels every single April. it's what fans do, I understand all of that. they get hopeful yada yada. while u get hopeful, I get realistic. that's where I come from.

I even put Redskin Cheerleader pics on computers that I work on as wallpapers. There is NO mistake of which team I support....

you're a redskins fan. duly noted.

FanofallthatisGibbs wrote:I will say I agree with 99% of what "the poster" wrote above,[size=0][size=9][size=7][size=9][size=7][size=0][size=7] albeit cherry picking comments to do so. But remember it's not just redskins fans that say "once this" or "once that" but rather all fans of any team tend to fall into this trap. Don't make Redskins fans out to be some kind of special breed in that sense - that is just silly.

I have some influential friends in DC, and they have told me some horror stories about the Redskins organization, from Danny's immature outbursts in meetings to Kyle getting drunk and going to work hungover - and I am talking game day. I am not here to judge them as people, but as professionals it is clear that we still have a long way to go in DC.

And yes, perhaps in spite of it all, like it happened in Indianapolis, we too can overcome with a true franchise QB. Maybe a year or two of greatness, but I just don't see that happening (i.e., conference dominat[/size]ion like[/size] Indy in[/size] the AFC[/size] South) [/size]in the N[/size]FC East.[/size]

I was with you right up to there