The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

PAPDOG67 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote: Again agreed. Griffin is plan A. But Peyton, keeping our #6 and possibly getting Tannehill would be a decent fall back plan.

The only way I wouldn't mind signing Manning is if we did in fact draft Tannehill to learn under him for 1-2 seasons...So I totally agree with this comment.

Exactly. Griffin is a lot closer to playing and if we get Tannehill we keep our #1 pick the next two years to use on other players.

You and I are on the same page Kazoo. If we get RGIII I will be excited. If not and we end up with Manning & Tannehill, I will not be upset either. In a perfect world involving the Manning scenario, we are able to trede back and add some extra draft picks on top of getting Tannehill somewhere later in the 1st round. It seems thart many on this board, rightfully so, are against greabbing him at 6, if those are the cards we are dealt.

PAPDOG67 wrote:

SouthLondonRedskin wrote:

riggofan wrote: Montana immediately took the Chiefs to a 13 win season AND the AFC Championship game, and the playoffs the next year. I think a lot of teams including the Redskins would be happy with those results.

They only had Montana for two years though. To me that is the bigger issue. Like I've said, it might be fun to have Peyton for a year or two, but I'd personally rather find our QB for the next decade.

Also I don't agree with all of these comments that Manning is washed up or that he's not going to last the season. The guy is one of the best QBs ever and as competitive a player as there is in the league. If he signs up to play with a new team for 2012, I fully expect he's going to bring it. He's not going to embarrass himself. And if he's playing for a team with an actual defense, he'll probably be back in the playoffs himself this year.

OK, my memory has let me down there as I had Montana struggling in Kansas!!! Fair enough, I take that back, but that would be an exception to the rule. 36 year olds starting over with another team, another coach, another system, another city, etc. It doesn;t bode well...

His age is a concern, his fitness another. I don't doubt that he will 'bring it', he's an athlete of integrity. But that dont count for much after he's had his neck put out again after a nasty hit.

It's a big risk, if he was 29 then yeah, go for it. He has time to come back. But not this time.

Didn't an old beat up Kurt Warner take the Arizona Cardinals within 2 minutes of winning the superbowl not too long ago?

Its not just his age and its not just his injuries, its his age AND his injuries.

He is also too immoblie a QB for our preferred system.

When you add it all up it doesnt make sense when we can go for a QB who is;
1. Younger
2. Fit
3. Mobile

Just because its Manning you're in danger of losing sight of our aims and goals. We're not trying to maintain a succesful team, we're trying to build one from scratch.

Why build up a great team around an old QB..? Just as the team comes to together we'll have a 38 year old QB! Get Griffin now, give him a couple of years to grow in the NFL whilst you build around him.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:Griffin has already said he would understand if he had to sit for a year or tewo behind a Peyton Manning. I don't understand why people are thinking we would be signing Peyton to be our franchise QB. He would at best be a two year stop-gap while we groom our rookie draft pick to be the real franchise QB.

I already answered this for you. If we sign Peyton, we are taking a shot. We need to get as much talent now around him as possible. If we get Griffin, we are building to be really good in 2-3 years. We have so much cap and so many resources and we need to pick one direction, not two.

I agree Kaz

If we get Manning then we are most likely not going after RGIII - I have nothing against Peyton coming in here but I'd rather we have RGIII

One is a short term answer and RGIII ensures a great QB for many years

I don't expect RGIII to be great or even very good initially but I do think he will be great for many years as QB
I'm not sure how long it will take to get RGIII ready to play ... I can't see it taking more than 1 year .... at the outside


Peyton could help for a year or 2

RGIII will be helping an offense for many, many years

Allegedly Peyton wasn't retained in Indy cus he isn't a good sharer. Peyton hordes all reps... So whomever is behind him isn't going to get any burn whatsoever. So if we get Peyton, RGIII is only gonna get mental reps. Unless his neck/arm dictates otherwise.

Chris Luva Luva wrote: .... Unless his neck/arm dictates otherwise.

now that's a little troubling too

not saying we shouldn't ... just sayin'

PAPDOG67 wrote:I will not be upset either. In a perfect world involving the Manning scenario, we are able to trede back and add some extra draft picks on top of getting Tannehill somewhere later in the 1st round. It seems thart many on this board, rightfully so, are against greabbing him at 6, if those are the cards we are dealt.

That would be a nice scenario if it played out. But I still don't understand your "righfully so" comment and why some of us are so against taking Tannehill at #6. Its almost a certainty that Tannehill will be gone in the top 15. If you think having Peyton Manning and Tannehill would be the best option, then why would you risk letting another team grab him and mess that up?

We rant constantly on here about how badly we need a franchise QB, but we're going to complain if the team drafts our QB for the next 10 years "too high"? If the team honestly believes Tannehill can be the guy, then you don't piss and moan that "he's a reach at #6". You freaking grab your potential franchise QB and look for a cornerback later in the draft or free agency. Not to mention that in THIS scenario you have your 2013 first round pick that you would have lost trading for RGIII, if it makes you feel any better.

I'm not making a case for Tannehill at all btw. I will wait to see/hear if Shanahan likes him - which is the most important factor to me. The guy could suck for all I know. I just want to make the point that we can't be a bunch of sissies when it comes to grabbing the best QB we can get.

Unless you're looking forward to another season of Becks and Wrecks.

Btw thought this was an interesting quote from the NFC EAST blog today:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/ ... anning-mad

One possibility that crossed my mind while reading this stuff was this: Perhaps the Redskins are striking an aggressive pose on Manning in an effort to get the Rams to move toward them in negotiations for the No. 2 pick in the draft. It's Robert Griffin III that the Redskins really want for quarterback, and they need to move up to No. 2 to get him. If the Rams have been playing hardball in negotiations, the Manning thing could conceivably scare them into softening up. If Manning signs somewhere like Miami, Washington or Seattle, the Rams could lose a suitor and, by extension, some negotiating leverage with the suitors who remain.

Maybe the Redskins really want Manning. But I don't see how they can be sure enough about his health yet to really make that call. So maybe this is some kind of negotiating tactic to help them get what they really want. If it is, that'd be a pretty smart move. Certainly smarter than signing Peyton Manning sometime in the next week.

riggofan wrote:Btw thought this was an interesting quote from the NFC EAST blog today:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/ ... anning-mad

One possibility that crossed my mind while reading this stuff was this: Perhaps the Redskins are striking an aggressive pose on Manning in an effort to get the Rams to move toward them in negotiations for the No. 2 pick in the draft. It's Robert Griffin III that the Redskins really want for quarterback, and they need to move up to No. 2 to get him. If the Rams have been playing hardball in negotiations, the Manning thing could conceivably scare them into softening up. If Manning signs somewhere like Miami, Washington or Seattle, the Rams could lose a suitor and, by extension, some negotiating leverage with the suitors who remain.

Maybe the Redskins really want Manning. But I don't see how they can be sure enough about his health yet to really make that call. So maybe this is some kind of negotiating tactic to help them get what they really want. If it is, that'd be a pretty smart move. Certainly smarter than signing Peyton Manning sometime in the next week.

Well, I'm sold.

riggofan wrote:Btw thought this was an interesting quote from the NFC EAST blog today:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/ ... anning-mad

One possibility that crossed my mind while reading this stuff was this: Perhaps the Redskins are striking an aggressive pose on Manning in an effort to get the Rams to move toward them in negotiations for the No. 2 pick in the draft. It's Robert Griffin III that the Redskins really want for quarterback, and they need to move up to No. 2 to get him. If the Rams have been playing hardball in negotiations, the Manning thing could conceivably scare them into softening up. If Manning signs somewhere like Miami, Washington or Seattle, the Rams could lose a suitor and, by extension, some negotiating leverage with the suitors who remain.

Maybe the Redskins really want Manning. But I don't see how they can be sure enough about his health yet to really make that call. So maybe this is some kind of negotiating tactic to help them get what they really want. If it is, that'd be a pretty smart move. Certainly smarter than signing Peyton Manning sometime in the next week.

Good reminder that historically whatever Mike Shanahan openly says about the draft or free agents is a ploy to direct attention away from his real plan. He has his own plan and does not share it with the media.

riggofan wrote:

PAPDOG67 wrote:I will not be upset either. In a perfect world involving the Manning scenario, we are able to trede back and add some extra draft picks on top of getting Tannehill somewhere later in the 1st round. It seems thart many on this board, rightfully so, are against greabbing him at 6, if those are the cards we are dealt.

That would be a nice scenario if it played out. But I still don't understand your "righfully so" comment and why some of us are so against taking Tannehill at #6. Its almost a certainty that Tannehill will be gone in the top 15. If you think having Peyton Manning and Tannehill would be the best option, then why would you risk letting another team grab him and mess that up?

We rant constantly on here about how badly we need a franchise QB, but we're going to complain if the team drafts our QB for the next 10 years "too high"? If the team honestly believes Tannehill can be the guy, then you don't piss and moan that "he's a reach at #6". You freaking grab your potential franchise QB and look for a cornerback later in the draft or free agency. Not to mention that in THIS scenario you have your 2013 first round pick that you would have lost trading for RGIII, if it makes you feel any better.

I'm not making a case for Tannehill at all btw. I will wait to see/hear if Shanahan likes him - which is the most important factor to me. The guy could suck for all I know. I just want to make the point that we can't be a bunch of sissies when it comes to grabbing the best QB we can get.

Unless you're looking forward to another season of Becks and Wrecks.

Riggofan, I totally agree with you. I do not have a problem with drafting Tannehill at 6 if that is the direction we go. If that is Shanny's guy, then don't play any games to try and get him where you think he should be drafted and risk losing out from someone else grabbing him instead. That being said, even tho I disagree, I do understand people's points of being skeptical of drafting the guy that early as he does only have 20 starts under his belt at the QB position.

Honestly, I don't see Manning coming here. Manning is a very smart guy. Both the Jets and Miami offer him more in terms of supporting cast. The skins would most likely offer Peyton more $$$ -- which Manning likes. But, the Jets can offer him more offensive control since Rex is a defensive guy and their OC was just fired. However, it is questionable whether Rex and Manning can co-exist. AZ is also an option as they have a good supporting cast and Peyton can run the show.

It is my opinion that both RGIII and Tannehill are not NFL starter-ready -- then again, very few college QBs are. In the past 5 or so years, the only QBs I saw as starter ready (or as ready as they can be given their abilities) were/are Luck, Weeden, Dalton, Clausen, Stafford, Ryan, Brohm and Edwards. That said, I never liked Clausen -- I only though he had achieved his potential. I also didn't know Brohm thought he was a bit self-entitled -- which I found out later by one of his NFL teammates.

I don't see Manning going to a team that will draft a rookie QB with their top 10 pick. I also don't see Tannehill as a top 10 pick, while RGIII is.

That said, I would prefer to see the Skins make a move with an eye towards the future without giving up picks. It appears that trading down and drafting Tannehill appears to be that route -- BUT I would MUCH RATHER get RGIII. I think the skins are in a difficult spot.

markshark84 wrote:Honestly, I don't see Manning coming here. Manning is a very smart guy.

I want to agree with you. But I can't believe I'm reading THIS today:

http://mike-freeman.blogs.cbssports.com ... _blogs_NFL

Peyton Manning insists he's made no decision on his possible NFL destination. Sure, Peyton. Sure.

No one in the league believes that. They think Manning has a short list but doesn't want to publicly admit it so he can maximize the inevitable bidding war.

One team official that contacted Manning's agent, Tom Condon, says he got the definite impression that Manning indeed has already decided where he wants to go, or, at least, the handful of teams truly in the mix. The official, who did not want to be identified, believes that Miami, Washington and Denver are the front-runners.

But the official conceded the front-runner will be the team that, in the end, offers the most guaranteed money.

The official believes that contrary to some reports, Manning is indeed open to playing in the NFC, even in the NFC East where his brother Eli, is obviously king of the division.

It's still early in the process but one thing is clear: the Manning derby is fully under way and, despite his public protestations, Manning likely already has a good idea of where he wants to go.

The Skins choices:

go after Manning and continue to build the franchise with free agents and draft picks - AND try to find a QB in the draft they really like

go after another free agent QB to be here with the real prize = RGIII AND to be the starter until RGIII is ready - they will also add free agents as they will not have many top draft picks
- other than the primo pick of RGIII

I don't think the FO is going to bring in Manning and bring in RGIII

we are going to still need help along the offensive line as depth behind quality starting players is critical - we also still have to add a big WR, CB, LB ... etc, etc

this franchise is bound for glory
- hopefully we add RGII no matter the cost as that takes care of that critical position for years to come

we do not need to hope to find a QB, we just need to make sure we get this QB

markshark84 wrote:Honestly, I don't see Manning coming here. Manning is a very smart guy. Both the Jets and Miami offer him more in terms of supporting cast.

I don't see how Miami or the Jets have any more to offer in terms of personnel than we do. I actually think our roster looks a lot better than the Jets and Miami.

oneman56 wrote:No, you're not the only one. Others have expressed the same thing and it seems the majority of fans would much rather see us pursue RGIII.

Dits here.

DarthMonk

riggofan wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

riggofan wrote:I wouldn't be "infuriated", but its not really the direction I'd like the team going right now

My first choice is Griffin, but if that's not going to happen I'd love to sign up Peyton. Along those lines, I'd like to tell the Rams we want to do the deal now so we know we have our QB situation settled and if they wait we're going after Manning and if we get him we're out of the bidding for their pick.

I like what you're saying. I would be ok with Peyton if we still draft a QB in the first two rounds. That's almost the best of both worlds.

I still find it super hard to understand though why Peyton Manning would ever choose to come here. Seriously, can anybody explain to me why he would choose us over a team like Miami?

I think that's push or maybe edge to Miami. I can see him liking Arizona a lot - us ... not so much.

DarthMonk

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -redskins/

Chris Russell of ESPN980 is reporting Manning has already told the skins he's not coming.

Then again, Mr Snyder and his friends the Franklins can be pretty convincing...

Is the poster a Brown or a Colt fan? He calls us "you" not "we" or "us" and thanked us for beating the Gmen because it cost us RGIII ... "thank you very much."



DarthMonk

the poster wrote:

oneman56 wrote:a little off topic but..., everyone saying the Reskins' are not one player away is somewhat funny to me. Would you rate this years Colts team as one player away? Add P. Manning back to that same team and they are a realistically in the SB conversation as proven for his entire career just about....dude is THAT good. A legit QB makes all the difference and makes up for weaknesses in other areas. I'm not suggesting the Skins' are or are not 1 player away but if you have a QB like him and he's healthy you have shot every year IMO.

typical redskin fan comment. particularly here in this part of the offseason, which proves to be the most exciting part of a redskins season.

what variable u didn't include, genius, is that they would win because he's a colt. has always been a colt. 14 years in that offense. that's his team. put him in the line, they would probably win 2 outta every 3 games because that's his comfort zone.

when these broken down old stars leave home and come to Washington, that's where they experience failure. it happens every single time and would happen again here.

you're not getting rg3 though so forget about him....he's a Cleveland brown....and your meaningless win vs the giants at the end of the year cost u him (thank u very much).

you guys will get something like Matt Flynn plus Ryan tannehill. enjoy.

He's a Browns clown.

Don't know why he's on here, he must have pissed off everyone on the Browns forum and they kicked him off I guess.

DarthMonk wrote:Is the poster a Brown or a Colt fan?

I think she's a Cowpie fan.

I'd agree with the Dead man - got to be a she, for sure

PAPDOG67 wrote:I don't see how Miami or the Jets have any more to offer in terms of personnel than we do. I actually think our roster looks a lot better than the Jets and Miami.

Seems like a lot of people around here feel that way. My bro is a huge Dolphins fan for some reason, so I pay some attention to them. I have to disagree that our roster is a lot better than Miami's.

Here is what the Wash Post just put up on the footballinsider blog:

Miami Dolphins

Pros: The Dolphins boast playmakers such as Brandon Marshall and Davone Bess at the receiver position, and Reggie Bush at running back. Four-time Pro Bowl left tackle Jake Long could protect Manning’s blind side. Miami has an offensive minded first-year coach in Joe Philbin, and an innovative offensive coordinator in Mike Sherman. Add a defense that ranked sixth-best in the NFL, limiting opponents to 19.6 points a game, and Manning would join a well-rounded roster in need of only a quarterback. Manning also has a home in the Miami area.

Cons: Would Manning want to play for a rookie head coach? The Dolphins play in the AFC East, which means Manning would have to share the division with rival Tom Brady, facing him twice a year.

Chances: High. Right now, the Dolphins appear to be the front-runners in the Manning chase. Playing in a warm-weather location could prove attractive for Manning, who played all of his home games in a dome for 13 years.

riggofan wrote: But I still don't understand your "righfully so" comment and why some of us are so against taking Tannehill at #6. Its almost a certainty that Tannehill will be gone in the top 15.

Because it is DUMB!

You can't select a 2nd round QB in the top ten. I know there are some mock drafts that have him going in the top ten. I even saw one that suggested that the Browns take him at #4 if we trade up for RG3.

And I have seen plenty of mock drafts that have him in the middle of the first round. I have also seen a mock draft at Fox sports that doesn't have him going in the 1st round @ all.

What is a common thread in all of them is he will probably be taken much higher than a project QB should go.

If there was a big gap between him and all of the rest of the QBs then I would be fine with then reaching, but there isn't.

You get in trouble when you reach that far to fill a need, even a dire need!

skinsfan#33 wrote:

riggofan wrote: But I still don't understand your "righfully so" comment and why some of us are so against taking Tannehill at #6. Its almost a certainty that Tannehill will be gone in the top 15.

Because it is DUMB!

You can't select a 2nd round QB in the top ten. I know there are some mock drafts that have him going in the top ten. I even saw one that suggested that the Browns take him at #4 if we trade up for RG3.

You have absolutely no factual way of proving that Tannehill is 2d round QB. That's just an opinion you've formed by reading mock drafts done by "fantasy football gurus" in December.

If the Redskins like him and believe that he can be their franchise QB, theirs is the ONLY opinion that matters. And IF that is the case, there is no such thing as drafting a QB too early.

riggofan wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

riggofan wrote: But I still don't understand your "righfully so" comment and why some of us are so against taking Tannehill at #6. Its almost a certainty that Tannehill will be gone in the top 15.

Because it is DUMB!

You can't select a 2nd round QB in the top ten. I know there are some mock drafts that have him going in the top ten. I even saw one that suggested that the Browns take him at #4 if we trade up for RG3.

You have absolutely no factual way of proving that Tannehill is 2d round QB. That's just an opinion you've formed by reading mock drafts done by "fantasy football gurus" in December.

If the Redskins like him and believe that he can be their franchise QB, theirs is the ONLY opinion that matters. And IF that is the case, there is no such thing as drafting a QB too early.

You're right all I'm going on is what the so called "experts" said at the end of Tannehill's college football career. Back in December and early January (you know after he finished playing - completing any relevant part of his resume) none of these guys had him as a first round pick. Yet now he has been elevated to the first round, since Landry Jones and Barkley went back to college. My opinion is it is stupid to draft a guy in the top ten when he wouldn't haver been selected in the first round (and still might not) if Landry Jones and Barkley entered the draft.

But I will agree with you that if the Skins think he is worthy of the #6 pick then they should draft him! Personally I think he has tons of potential and tons of risk. I would prefer they drafted a guy that was safer with that pick.