First, Second, and Fourth for RGIII

[SouthLondonRedskin]

I would have to believe the QB play would have to be marginally better this season even if it's Grossman.

You know man, that is the trap people continually fall into with Grossman. Myself included. You look at Rex doing some good things and showing that he has the potential to light it up at times, and you say, "Wow. If Rex could JUST cut down on his INTs". And that my friend is the trap.

I encourage anybody thinking this way to take a look at Rex's history with the Bears. They went through the exact same stuff with him.

I still think there is a possibility Rex is with the team next year and maybe even the opening day starter. There is no reason to expect that he is going to play any better than he did last season. If you're going to win more games with Rex at the helm, its going to have to be because of things like Gano not missing the big kicks, WRs making more plays, or guys like Helu/Royster breaking out and winning games for us. Rex is what he is.

And that is a perfect summing up of the Rex situation.

Yes, he had a ravaged OL to work behind. Yes, the running game stuttered a few times, especially with Torain. Yes, the receiving corp wasn't great. And yes, a few of those interceptions were not his fault.

But this is one leopard that aint changing his spots.

I think we have to re-sign him and have him as backup though. With improvements to all of the above points I made in his defence he'd be a fine backup to have come off the bench.

But lead us to the promised land...? Nah, aint gonna happen...

[SkinsJock]

I'd be very surprised if the Shanahan's share the idea that Grossman can be here if he continues to play at the level we've seen

Beck was, at one time, thought to be better than Grossman but that's really not saying anything much

If Grossman is going to be here he has to show that he's not turning the ball over

If Grossman "is what he is" THEN he's not here

[Irn-Bru]

I don't think it's the best measure; in fact, it has as many problems as judging defenses by yards allowed. (Yards allowed probably is the better measure if you only have a choice between those two, however.)

I'm having trouble getting my head around that ... so you're saying, you'd prefer your defense to give up less yards rather than fewer points? You cannot be serious?

Who said anything about that? I'm talking about ways to measure, statistically, the effectiveness of a defense over many games against various opponents in different conditions. To talk about yards allowed being a better metric than points allowed for those purposes doesn't mean I'd rather have a defense that gave up fewer yards but allowed lots of points. This is like football stats 101.

There are many reasons that a team might give up a lot of yards, as I indicated before ...

As I indicated in my last post, I do not advocate using yards allowed as the best metric for ranking defenses. I did point you to two sites where you can see, dissect, agree/disagree with more advanced analysis of NE's defense. Both sites, which use different methods, have the Pats in the bottom third of the league.

I prefer wins over statistics,

That's your prerogative. But it relegates your arguments to the banter you get between drunk fans in a bar: lots of chest thumping or "look at the scoreboard" but no depth or really anything of interest going on. Anyone can say "give me a defense that holds 'em to less than 14 points, any day," but that's not a realistic goal in this sport and doesn't tell you anything about the way the game is actually played.

I tell you what, I found the ultimate stat connected with winning, and you'll probably love it: I call it the outscore stat. Teams that can figure out a way to outscore their opponents, no matter who, put themselves in the position to win. So you can scrap your points-allowed fixation with defensive stats. I've got the inside track on the statistic that matters, and it ain't yards or points allowed or any of that nerdy mumbo jumbo. Give me the team that knows how to go out and score more points than the other team, any day.

Any argument against this will have to show me how their stat better predicts wins than my outscore index. (I've yet to see someone who can do it.) Whatever other fancy schmancy stats you want to discuss — and I'm sure there are plenty of stats like points allowed per game that are interesting to talk about on a purely theoretical basis — I'll stick with the one that's proven the best predictor of NFL success, thank you very much.

After all, to quote a wise man I once heard, "I prefer wins over statistics."

Those complex statistical factors may make for interesting conversation and debate ... but at the end of the day ... it's any given Sunday, and personnel matchups and execution that determines the course of the game. Some teams simply match up better against other teams that would generally be considered more talented.

You make it sound like "any given Sunday" is the realm of the analysts who reject statistics. But that's not the case. People who look at advanced statistics don't think in terms of certainties — actually the whole point of using the statistics is because outcomes are uncertain. So this whole line of argument is misleading.

You mean, harm them all the way to the Super Bowl? Come on now, you pulling my leg here ... I feel a tug.

So you're one of those people who think the 2000 Ravens offense was top quality?

[Irn-Bru]

First, second and forth this year,and next year's first and the sixth they got for Fat Albert if needed

If that would do it, I'd make the trade.

[markshark84]

It's going to be expensive that's for sure

the one good thing is, IF we give up the picks we get RGIII
IF we don't we still have this FO putting the players on the field that will ensure we get into the playoffs this season



I'd love to get RGIII but ......
with him or without him, we'll be in the playoffs in 2013 because these guys are re-making this franchise


UNLIKE the Giants and their FO this franchise will be consistently competitive again and soon


I want to win a Super Bowl again like many others but NOT because we got lucky

I'm looking forward to this franchise being dominant again - the giants are not doing that with their FO and HC

Not sure what you mean by this (unless you are joking). The Giants have won two SBs in the past 5 years. They have a core group of players in their prime that will last for a number of years -- especially at WR, DL, OL, QB, and RB. I WISH we were the Giants. And to imply that the Giants got lucky is just ignorant. They beat the best 3 teams in football (record wise) in back to back to back games to win the SB. Not sure how you can consider that a fluke or luck. A team/player are only as good as their on-field play indicates. Not sure if you understand this, but in sports, it's not how you start -- it's how you finish. The Giants more than earned that SB ring.

If the FO trades 3 potential picks for RGIII and RGIII ends up being a bust -- it will be a significant hit to our reconstruction process. I don't think people on here understand the risk in giving up 3 picks -- two of which that should have an immediate impact on the roster. I am indifferent to the trade, but if they make it -- it better work. Based on our current roster, the margin for error is small.

[SkinsJock]

It's really simple - I hate the giants

the 2 recent Super Bowls were more a case of a lot of good luck and incredibly big plays at just the right time than a group of players playing well and being coached well

think what you'd like - I'm looking to this FO making the Redskins franchise into a team that is consistently competitive and dominant

The Redskins when they are playing well will not lose games to really weak opposition like the giants did this season

I'd like to win a Super Bowl again and when we do it will not be because we got lucky - like the giants


The giants are not a great team - lately they've just been lucky

[GoSkins]

:lol: It's really simple - I hate the giants

the 2 recent Super Bowls were more a case of a lot of good luck and incredibly big plays at just the right time than a group of players playing well and being coached well

think what you'd like - I'm looking to this FO making the Redskins franchise into a team that is consistently competitive and dominant

The Redskins when they are playing well will not lose games to really weak opposition like the giants did this season

I'd like to win a Super Bowl again and when we do it will not be because we got lucky - like the giants

The giants are not a great team - lately they've just been lucky

Your hatred of the Giants is blinding your ability to be objective.

[The Hogster]

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

[jmooney]

RGIII does'nt exactly fit the system perfectly. He's a great talent, sure. If we could get him for a 1st,2nd and 4th, absolutely , you pull the trigger. But with this guys athletic skill set, he's gonna put on a show at the combine. After the combine I say theres no way you get him that cheap.Hes going to cost multiple 1st round picks and some lower rounds as well.



Now , the onus falls on the scouting department to make sure there wont be a better option for THIS system that will be available next year. Whats the point in spending next years picks, this year, just to fill a need when you could get a better fit next year.

If the scouts believe that Griffin is going to be better in this system than anyone available next year, you consider throwing in next years 1st rounder. But you really better be sure he fits PERFECTLY, considering the multiple needs of this team.

I'm not happy about the QB play either but, the cost of screwing this up is much higher than another losing season. Yes, we had a great draft last year but, I'm still not 100% confident they will do this right. This will be the draft that defines this staff.

[Kilmer72]

:lol: It's really simple - I hate the giants

the 2 recent Super Bowls were more a case of a lot of good luck and incredibly big plays at just the right time than a group of players playing well and being coached well

think what you'd like - I'm looking to this FO making the Redskins franchise into a team that is consistently competitive and dominant

The Redskins when they are playing well will not lose games to really weak opposition like the giants did this season

I'd like to win a Super Bowl again and when we do it will not be because we got lucky - like the giants


The giants are not a great team - lately they've just been lucky

Welcome to my world. I lost hundreds of dollars during the 80s. I haven't bet since Phil Simms and his lucky 4th and a million and got it. I hate the Giants also SJ.

[HEROHAMO]

1st , 2nd and fourth urrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr no brainnnnnnneeeeeeeeer.

[frankcal20]

Bill Polian just stated on Sirius that don't be surprised that teams may move up to #2 for Khalil. Everyone associates RG3 but Khalil is a hell of a lineman and this draft is very weak at the position which adds value and it looks like #3 could easily draft him.

MAN THIS DRAFT IS GOING TO BE CRAZY IN THE TOP 10 PICKS!!!!

[Countertrey]

Bill Polian just stated on Sirius that don't be surprised that teams may move up to #2 for Khalil. Everyone associates RG3 but Khalil is a hell of a lineman and this draft is very weak at the position which adds value and it looks like #3 could easily draft him.

MAN THIS DRAFT IS GOING TO BE CRAZY IN THE TOP 10 PICKS!!!!

I already can't stand it.

[CanesSkins26]

Bill Polian just stated on Sirius that don't be surprised that teams may move up to #2 for Khalil. Everyone associates RG3 but Khalil is a hell of a lineman and this draft is very weak at the position which adds value and it looks like #3 could easily draft him.

MAN THIS DRAFT IS GOING TO BE CRAZY IN THE TOP 10 PICKS!!!!

I might be in the minority on this, but if I'm St. Louis I stay at #2 and take Khalil.

[Countertrey]

Bill Polian just stated on Sirius that don't be surprised that teams may move up to #2 for Khalil. Everyone associates RG3 but Khalil is a hell of a lineman and this draft is very weak at the position which adds value and it looks like #3 could easily draft him.

MAN THIS DRAFT IS GOING TO BE CRAZY IN THE TOP 10 PICKS!!!!

I might be in the minority on this, but if I'm St. Louis I stay at #2 and take Khalil.

That may make sense... but I don't know what additional needs the Rams have that may dictate growing picks.

[frankcal20]

Bill Polian just stated on Sirius that don't be surprised that teams may move up to #2 for Khalil. Everyone associates RG3 but Khalil is a hell of a lineman and this draft is very weak at the position which adds value and it looks like #3 could easily draft him.

MAN THIS DRAFT IS GOING TO BE CRAZY IN THE TOP 10 PICKS!!!!

I might be in the minority on this, but if I'm St. Louis I stay at #2 and take Khalil.

Sam Bradford & Steven Jackson agree. :P

[SkinsJock]

Bill Polian just stated on Sirius that don't be surprised that teams may move up to #2 for Khalil. Everyone associates RG3 but Khalil is a hell of a lineman and this draft is very weak at the position which adds value and it looks like #3 could easily draft him.

MAN THIS DRAFT IS GOING TO BE CRAZY IN THE TOP 10 PICKS!!!!

I might be in the minority on this, but if I'm St. Louis I stay at #2 and take Khalil.

trust me on this - you are in the minority with that stupid projection


anyone that thinks Khalil is going to be drafted in the top 2 in this draft is MOST definetly not in touch with reality

that is just a really dumb draft prediction






are you crazy












oh, that's right - you are in touch with these things

[CanesSkins26]

Bill Polian just stated on Sirius that don't be surprised that teams may move up to #2 for Khalil. Everyone associates RG3 but Khalil is a hell of a lineman and this draft is very weak at the position which adds value and it looks like #3 could easily draft him.

MAN THIS DRAFT IS GOING TO BE CRAZY IN THE TOP 10 PICKS!!!!

I might be in the minority on this, but if I'm St. Louis I stay at #2 and take Khalil.

trust me on this - you are in the minority with that stupid projection


anyone that thinks Khalil is going to be drafted in the top 2 in this draft is MOST definetly not in touch with reality

that is just a really dumb draft prediction






are you crazy












oh, that's right - you are in touch with these things

The Rams have a young qb who has been getting pummeled the last two seasons, and you think that drafting the best LT in the draft is a bad idea for them?

[jmooney]

Especially if they trade with Cleveland they could stil get Khalil, there are a few other stud lineman that'll be available there too DeCastro, Adams, Reiff.

one of those guys would be available at #6 too

[SkinsJock]

There is no doubt in my mind that the 2 QBs are going 1 and 2


Stupidity on draft day is legend though - especially with a top 10 pick

[frankcal20]

There is no doubt in my mind that the 2 QBs are going 1 and 2


Stupidity on draft day is legend though - especially with a top 10 pick

Sounds like doubt......

I'll also listen to former NFL GM's when they say there will be talk about teams moving up to grab the LT. There are some teams that do not like Reiff at all. So if Kalil is your guy, you go get him. Same as RG3. Why at #2, b/c Minny needs a LT and you have to get ahead of Minny to get Kalil. Then that would allow someone else to go up and trade w/ Minny for RG3 if the asking price isn't too high.

[SkinsJock]

Okay guys - do your really think that someone is going to give the Rams the equivalent of what one of the 2 best QBs is worth

Luck and RGIII are possible franchise QBs - no franchise will give up that much for a LT instead - NO WAY

RGIII and Luck are the first 2 players taken - just accept it

[CanesSkins26]

Especially if they trade with Cleveland they could stil get Khalil, there are a few other stud lineman that'll be available there too DeCastro, Adams, Reiff.

one of those guys would be available at #6 too

None of those other guys are in Khalil's league.

[riggofan]

Bill Polian just stated on Sirius that don't be surprised that teams may move up to #2 for Khalil. Everyone associates RG3 but Khalil is a hell of a lineman and this draft is very weak at the position which adds value and it looks like #3 could easily draft him.

MAN THIS DRAFT IS GOING TO BE CRAZY IN THE TOP 10 PICKS!!!!

I might be in the minority on this, but if I'm St. Louis I stay at #2 and take Khalil.

Yeah I don't understand that at all. I keep seeing projections that the Rams will get Bradford a WR like Blackmon with their first pick. What's the point of that if the guy is continually getting pummelled behind their woeful line???

And I don't agree that they could trade with the Browns and still get Kalil. The Vikings will scoop him up at #3.

[emoses14]

Bill Polian just stated on Sirius that don't be surprised that teams may move up to #2 for Khalil. Everyone associates RG3 but Khalil is a hell of a lineman and this draft is very weak at the position which adds value and it looks like #3 could easily draft him.

MAN THIS DRAFT IS GOING TO BE CRAZY IN THE TOP 10 PICKS!!!!

I might be in the minority on this, but if I'm St. Louis I stay at #2 and take Khalil.

Its not that you're in the minority, its that your team is the Washington redskins, and for st. Louis to do that would be a HUGE advantage to us. It would make our lives a lot easier.

Hell, I'll join you in that minority. Moving up to Three or Four is a lot less costly than moving up to 2.