The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

frankcal20 wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

1niksder wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:
Shaub is the only one that I can think of. Flynn was mediocre in college, has a weak arm, and because of 2 good games playing with a high-powered offense is now being vastly overrated. If he were really such a hot commodity, some team would've traded or him after last season. He has "career backup" written all over him, but some team is going to overpay for him.

The Redkins would be the perfect spot for him...
He says he's looking for a place where he can compete for a starting job.

That means he isn't looking for "starters" money and as you call him this career back up would be competing against career back ups until the rookie is ready to challenge him. Klye has been looking for a QB that fits his system since he arrived in Washington, last week he stated the QB doesn't have fit his sytem to suceed. Flynn would be a viable upgrade. Won't cost as much as many think and will be insurance in case the Rookie they want isn't there when they pick.

What makes you think that Flynn would be an upgrade? Flynn is about as known of a commodity as Beck was when we got him.

Actually that's not true. In two games, he's put up more yards than either of these QBs have. Is there any film or stats you have to support your claim b/c as of now, it's only substantiated by an opinion.

It's two games, a year apart. It means virtually nothing. Flynn is a system qb, he'd be no better than what we've had here.

And, if the results in the New England game, for example, are so significant how come no team traded for Flynn last offseason?

CanesSkins26 wrote:And, if the results in the New England game, for example, are so significant how come no team traded for Flynn last offseason?

Youy may recall the small matter of a lockout last offseason. Why didn't any NFL team sign any RFA in the last two years (this includes the Skins re: no-comp RFA OJ Atogwe after 09)?

Paralis wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:And, if the results in the New England game, for example, are so significant how come no team traded for Flynn last offseason?

Youy may recall the small matter of a lockout last offseason. Why didn't any NFL team sign any RFA in the last two years (this includes the Skins re: no-comp RFA OJ Atogwe after 09)?

What are you talking about?? The Eagles and Cardinals had no problem completing the deal for Kevin Kolb after the lockout ended.

CanesSkins26 wrote:And, if the results in the New England game, for example, are so significant how come no team traded for Flynn last offseason?

How do you know that teams didn't try?

As for a few other backups who became starters. Here's a few more:

Phillip Rivers (He's pretty good)
Tom Brady
Tony Romo
Kurt Warner (He's pretty good)
Drew Brees (He's pretty good)
...just to name a few.

Regardless of where you select a QB in the draft, it's better for them to sit and watch vs being thrown in the fire in my opinion.

CanesSkins26 wrote:What are you talking about?? The Eagles and Cardinals had no problem completing the deal for Kevin Kolb after the lockout ended.

Kolb wasn't an RFA.
Philly needed to ship him because of the situation w/ Vick (i.e. he was on a short-term starter contract and that's too much money to pay for a miserable backup)
AZ was desperate, giving up a player in a position of need to pacify Larry Fitzgerald and save Whisenhunt's career (how much either of those worked are still tbd).

Doesn't really make for generalized precedent.

frankcal20 wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:And, if the results in the New England game, for example, are so significant how come no team traded for Flynn last offseason?

How do you know that teams didn't try?

As for a few other backups who became starters. Here's a few more:

Phillip Rivers (He's pretty good)
Tom Brady
Tony Romo
Kurt Warner (He's pretty good)
Drew Brees (He's pretty good)
...just to name a few.

Regardless of where you select a QB in the draft, it's better for them to sit and watch vs being thrown in the fire in my opinion.

It depends on the qb. Dalton and Cam are doing just fine as starters. And are you really comparing the situation of Philip Rivers, taken 4th overall, to Flynn?

frankcal20 wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:And, if the results in the New England game, for example, are so significant how come no team traded for Flynn last offseason?

How do you know that teams didn't try?

As for a few other backups who became starters. Here's a few more:

Phillip Rivers (He's pretty good)
Tom Brady
Tony Romo
Kurt Warner (He's pretty good)
Drew Brees (He's pretty good)
...just to name a few.

Regardless of where you select a QB in the draft, it's better for them to sit and watch vs being thrown in the fire in my opinion.

Not sure if this answer was a response to my earlier question of:

Can anyone name some back ups that went to other teams to start and became a franchise QB or at least a decent starter?

None of the guys that you named went to other teams which would be the case of Flynn. Schaub is an example, but he had several consecutive starts because of injury. Does Flynn have the tools of Schaub? Arm strength?

It is rare that the kind of back ups who have spot start duty experience go to another team and start. Hasselbeck was another, but again - different from Flynn, he went to his old Coach Holmgren and played in the same offense.

A.J. Freely is an example of a guy with spot duty experience that bombed.
Charlie Whitehurst is a recent one.

Not saying that this doesn't mean that Flynn can't make it. I am saying that it is risky to put the future of the franchise with one of these type of back ups like Flynn. These types of back ups usually come from successful teams which is why they look successful.

Buyer beware.

Brees was pretty good.

frankcal20 wrote:Brees was pretty good.

Brees was drafted to be a starter. He sat his rookie season and was never a backup again.

frankcal20 wrote:Brees was pretty good.

Brees was also a starter in SD before moving to NO. Flynn is not starter.

If Flynn fits what Shanny is looking for, he will be in a Redskin uniform next year. If that happens, I hope that he is the real deal.

I prefer to go after Luck or RGIII.

Red_One43 wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:None of the guys that you named went to other teams which would be the case of Flynn. Schaub is an example, but he had several consecutive starts because of injury. Does Flynn have the tools of Schaub? Arm strength?

It is rare that the kind of back ups who have spot start duty experience go to another team and start. Hasselbeck was another, but again - different from Flynn, he went to his old Coach Holmgren and played in the same offense.

A.J. Freely is an example of a guy with spot duty experience that bombed.
Charlie Whitehurst is a recent one.

Not saying that this doesn't mean that Flynn can't make it. I am saying that it is risky to put the future of the franchise with one of these type of back ups like Flynn. These types of back ups usually come from successful teams which is why they look successful.

Buyer beware.

Schaub had 2 career starts, one year apart, when Houston traded for him. He threw for (about twenty) more yards but lower YPA, more interceptions and fewer TDs than Flynn has. To whatever extent you want to compare their raw numbers, Flynn looks better. Schaub also had the benefit of one of the league's best rushing attacks in ATL; GB may have a better roster overall (particularly at WR), but are on their 3rd sting RT and have no running game to speak of.

People remember Schaub having a lot of hype for two reasons: he was talked about as a likely Heisman candidate/first rounder before a shoulder injury in his senior year, and of course he's been pretty good in Houston since the trade.

Paralis wrote:

Red_One43 wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:None of the guys that you named went to other teams which would be the case of Flynn. Schaub is an example, but he had several consecutive starts because of injury. Does Flynn have the tools of Schaub? Arm strength?

It is rare that the kind of back ups who have spot start duty experience go to another team and start. Hasselbeck was another, but again - different from Flynn, he went to his old Coach Holmgren and played in the same offense.

A.J. Freely is an example of a guy with spot duty experience that bombed.
Charlie Whitehurst is a recent one.

Not saying that this doesn't mean that Flynn can't make it. I am saying that it is risky to put the future of the franchise with one of these type of back ups like Flynn. These types of back ups usually come from successful teams which is why they look successful.

Buyer beware.

Schaub had 2 career starts, one year apart, when Houston traded for him. He threw for (about twenty) more yards but lower YPA, more interceptions and fewer TDs than Flynn has. To whatever extent you want to compare their raw numbers, Flynn looks better. Schaub also had the benefit of one of the league's best rushing attacks in ATL; GB may have a better roster overall (particularly at WR), but are on their 3rd sting RT and have no running game to speak of.

People remember Schaub having a lot of hype for two reasons: he was talked about as a likely Heisman candidate/first rounder before a shoulder injury in his senior year, and of course he's been pretty good in Houston since the trade.

You are correct about the two starts. Schaub had more game appearances as a QB than Flynn the same amount of starts. Schaub fits the category that I laid out - a back up that becomes succesful for another team as a starter.

Red_One43 wrote:If Flynn fits what Shanny is looking for, he will be in a Redskin uniform next year. If that happens, I hope that he is the real deal.

I prefer to go after Luck or RGIII.

I hope Flynn is the real deal if he is in a Redskins uniform, I've given up on getting Luck but am still want to make a run at RGIII cost permitting. Flynn wants a shot at winning a starting job, we need to draft a QB, and Rex needs to go. If Flynn signs and can't beat out a rookie and Beck while learning the system, then at the very least the Redskins will have a back up (not named Rex) in place behind the rookie.

Rex won the starting job by default last season... he had no competion regardless what we thought. Having a true QB competion this off-season is a must. Kyle seems to becoming flexable in what he's looking for in his next QB, so why not invest in both options a hand picked rookie in the top of the draft, a hungry young unknown looking for his shot. In the end they should be set for years.

That's my take on it too

we all know that this FO is more likely to surprise us than take the route that we see as being the path to success


These guys have had some time now to look at the QB situation
especially as they saw at the begining of last season that McNabb was NOT going to be much help

they will NOT have Grossman starting games next season

they will bring in a FA QB to start games until the QB they draft can play - that is a given
That could be early in the season or not at all - we all know that some QBs are ready to play and some take a while

this FO cannot make a mistake at QB AND they should not undo the good work they've done
we have the makings of a decent team here and will be competitive in the NFC East for sure


hopefully we can bring in Matt Flynn ...... almost anyone will be better than Grossman

frankcal20 wrote:Tivo the GB game today to watch Matt Flynn. I have a sneaky suspicion that he'll be our starter and we draft a guy like Tannehill or Foles later in the draft. Also, expect to see Polumbus line up at RT today. We may have just found a pretty good player as an UFA and then Brown would be our backup tackle.

OK Frank, at first thought, I didn't think that this made since because I don't think that Flynn has the arm to be our QB of the future, but when I look at him as a place holder for a guy like Tannehill and replacement for Rex. It is a do-able option for a QB of the future. As a Big 12 fan, I think that Tannehill has a lot of promise. Flynn is clearly better than Rex. Kyle said that they don't have to have to pursue a QB that knows the O. He cited how Schaub did well his first year on the O. You keep Beck around, at least through preseason, so you have a guy who can help tutor. Forget Rex.

Heres what I see in Flynn:

This link shows Matt Flynn in his start against New England last year.

He shows pocket presence.
He shows mobility.
He can extend plays.
He has a laser arm for the 20 to 30 yard passes.

He did throw into coverage a few times, perhaps he is better now.

One thing that is lacking in this video are deep throws. That is not a staple of the WCO except with the Shanahan's version.

In yesterday's game against the Lions, one of Flynn's TDs hung in the air and Nelson made a great catch - good receivers that fight for the ball do make a difference.

In the Redskin-Eagles game, Rex could not get the ball to a wide open AA and it resulted in an interception. Rex was hit on the play, but a stronger ram would have gotten the ball there.

I would say that Flynn's arm is on par with Grossman.

What happens when you put a strong arm QB in Shanny's O? Look at McNabb and all the deep connections that he made. AA looked like a stud receiver.

I could not find a video on the Lions game showing all of Flynn's throws, but I like what I saw in the NE game. He is clearly better than Rex as far as mobility and pocket presence. Can't critique him on decision making with some of his throws into coverage because, he might have improved since then.

That leaves the arm. Since the deep pass is a staple of Shanny's O, I can't see that Flynn is the QB that the Shanny's are after. If they want another stop gap to hold the place while they still pursue of develop a rookie then Flynn is a better choice than Rex. With Kyle saying that they don't have to get a veteran who knows the O, Flynn might be a viable short term solution.

Flynn's cap hit for 2011 is $571,043. Just making Grossman money would double his money. Of course, it would cost more to sign him.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w32dZqDS ... re=related

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-pa ... att-flynn/

http://nfldraftmonsters.com/scouting/sc ... tannehill/

I am not as up on all the stats or potential fit as you guys

I would hope that whichever QB is starting here is used to his strengths not to what Kyle wants him to be

Kyle at the end of the season seemed to manage the offense here better than he did in the first 8 games

If Flynn come in here and he cannot throw the deep ball well enough, then that is how you have to use him


we need the OC & DC to get more out of the players - the best way to do that is to game plan to the players' strengths

SkinsJock wrote:they will bring in a FA QB to start games until the QB they draft can play - that is a given

Is it? I haven't personally spoken to Shanahan myself to know that its "a given".

SkinsJock wrote:I agree but ....

Mike will bring in whichever FA QB he thinks will help here
what that QB did today or last week or all his life is past tense - means nothing

What in the world are you talking about??? This has to be one of the top 10 most ridiculous things I've ever read on this board. Yeah, I would the Coach brings in the QB he thinks will play the best. What is the alternative? The coach brings in the QB he thinks is the snappiest dresser??

What a QB did last week means nothing??? How else are we supposed to evaluate a potential FA other than to look at his freaking body of work??? What in the world are you talking about?????

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I agree but ....

Mike will bring in whichever FA QB he thinks will help here
what that QB did today or last week or all his life is past tense - means nothing

What in the world are you talking about??? This has to be one of the top 10 most ridiculous things I've ever read on this board. Yeah, I would the Coach brings in the QB he thinks will play the best. What is the alternative? The coach brings in the QB he thinks is the snappiest dresser??

What a QB did last week means nothing??? How else are we supposed to evaluate a potential FA other than to look at his freaking body of work??? What in the world are you talking about?????

thank you for paying attention and "ranking" my post - it means a great deal

bit of a shame that you so obviously need help with understanding things
sorry I don't have time to help you - good luck with that though


Mike has been looking at all his options for some time now and 1 great day or 1 bad day means NOTHING to him
that fact is all I care about

keep up the good work though and hopefully you can get the information on "the body of work" to Mike
he'll appreciate it .... as do I

I still don't think that Shanahan really understands how bad our qb situation is. He made a comment today that if the team had stayed healthy we would have won 10-11 games.

I just don't trust what this man says - he might know a lot about the NFL and I'm sure he's a good HC but ....

if these guys don't understanf FULLY the situation at QB and what to do about it, we are truly screwed

there is not a lot to make me feel good about but ... this FO has brought about a lot of changes here and I feel we are not far off

but - WE NEED A QB - and the quickest way to get production out of him is to identify which FA QB can handle the job here

the next step is to draft a QB to get ready to go


now with the BOTH of the Polians being let go - I think that means Irsay wants Andrew Luck

SkinsJock wrote:I just don't trust what this man says - he might know a lot about the NFL and I'm sure he's a good HC but ....

if these guys don't understanf FULLY the situation at QB and what to do about it, we are truly screwed

there is not a lot to make me feel good about but ... this FO has brought about a lot of changes here and I feel we are not far off

but - WE NEED A QB - and the quickest way to get production out of him is to identify which FA QB can handle the job here

the next step is to draft a QB to get ready to go


now with the BOTH of the Polians being let go - I think that means Irsay wants Andrew Luck

It will never happen, but I would LOVE for Snyder to strip Shanahan of all his front office duties, reassign Allen, and hire Bill Polian as the GM.

- I will say that the ONLY reason for sticking with the Shanaplan is my hoping that it will fix the damage AND SOON - it has helped


Bill Polian will be working his magic somewhere else & soon

Can people stop getting hot and heavy over the next "best thing" in the NFL??? Matt Flynn plays on one of the best offenses in Football. Chase Daniels would probably look like Elway if he got a chance to take the Ferrari for a spin too. That doesn't mean he can come here and lead this gaggle of cast offs.

Trade down in the Draft and get a QB and more help. This team is a reclamation project.