The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

markshark84 wrote:With that said, we do need to majorly upgrade our corners.

But in reality, the root of our problems is with our offense, not the defense.

I disagree and agree. I disagree that DB is the major concern. IMO and as I started earlier, we've had better secondary's here that have had the same issues. If you want to improve the secondary, do so by improving the pass rush. Let's get a bigger body in there than Cofield and move him to end. Let's upgrade at LB, I love Rocky but we could get a better there. Our secondary isn't worse than a lot of teams out there but the pass rush is ineffective.

I agree about the offense.

I agree we have the worse offense in the NFL. That said, our defense is weak. We know where the weaknesses are: Hall, CB's etc. But the guy who bothers me the most is Orakpo. Here we have a guy who could be one of the great DE's in the game who is playing a position he cannot play. Cannot play--emphasis intended. He can't defend the pass and seems helpless on the run, like a blocking dummy. The first guy who hits him when he's almost stationary stands him up and then the runner cuts inside or outside of him, no problem. He cannot play linebacker. Unless he has great momentum (like a DE rushing), he doesn't fight off the blocker or make quick moves toward the ball carrier. I am so tired of cornerbacks having to make all the tackles on his side I could scream, or better, turn off the tube.

That's a pretty damn goot point about the D being partly responsible for their own fatigue. If they have to keep running back on the field because of inconsistent play by our O, then they have to shut the other team down. How many 3 & outs have we seen by the opposing team in the past 3 weeks?

skinsfan#33 wrote:

redskinz4ever wrote:this D is much improved over last years it is still missing a few pieces non the less that side of the ball is not to blame.the offense cant score and when see a score like 23 zip why do most people say wow they cant stop anyone. the goose egg is what we should all be worried about.

Don't act like they have been laying goose eggs for the whole season. They have had bad games and as much as the offense was mostly responsible for the Bills loss, the D was every bit as responsible for the Panthers loss (and the Cowgirls loss for a lesser degree)

Everyone says "but they didn't give up a TD" against the Pukes. True, but they did give up six scoring drives and 3 & 21.

Pathetic.

Yes, they have less to improve on, but seriously they should. How many high draft picks have been used on the D? How many on the O? How many FA where brought in for the D?

They should be better.... They HAVE MORE TALENT!

the offense is averaging a TD a game how many wins is that going to get us ... answer NONE !!
i am saying we need to fix the O being FA , DRAFT whatever what we have now is SAD !!

The D is not great but it is a lot closer to being 'competitive' than the offense

We have some issues on defense especially being able to get pressure on the QB AND with the secondary

The offense has many needs at many positions and especially with RB and the O line starters plus depth



we all hoped we could be better this year and the first 4 games gave some a false sense of progress

this team was VERY bad offensively 2 years ago - fixing that takes time
ESPECIALLY when we do not have a decent QB

crazyhorse1 wrote:But the guy who bothers me the most is Orakpo. Here we have a guy who could be one of the great DE's in the game

crazyhorse1 wrote:He can't defend the pass and seems helpless on the run

That would be a non-sequitur. Being "one of the great DE's" even if you're arguing he's a great pass rusher he needs to be at least competent in the run much less "helpless." You can be a DE and not be able to stop the run, but you're not going to be "one of the greats" and be "helpless". Sorry.

Irn-Bru wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

I completely agree that CLL has good points what I seige on is how they apply to our D.

Chris's whole point was that these factors were relevant to our defense. How could he have "good points" but have totally missed the mark with those same points?

Man when I go back and read some of my posts I get ticked off at two things. One, I didn't proof read them and two, I should know by now swype will screw me of I don't proof read.

On the CLL posts. It is simple. I agree with him that he has good points on defense in general, but where we
disagree is wether or not his points have any merit pertaining to or defense.

He thinks they do, but I know they don't.

I guess we can agree to disagree.

posting it twice helps ... I guess

^^ Silly ozzie... what are you talking about?

like the old saying goes - "youse guys are good ... "


I was just teasing a little ...

skinsfan#33 wrote:I agree with him that he has good points on defense in general, but where we
disagree is wether or not his points have any merit pertaining to or defense.

The defense does need to improve on getting off of the field on 3rd down. And they were BETTER, notice I did NOT say good, I said better.... They were better at 3rd down efficiency when the offense was decent earlier in the year. Also, I believe they were tops in the league at one point.

That in itself show's that the offense has more to do with them getting off of the field than their own deficiencies.

StorminMormon86 wrote:If they have to keep running back on the field because of inconsistent play by our O, then they have to shut the other team down.

LOL!

crazyhorse1 wrote: But the guy who bothers me the most is Orakpo.

He seems to have hit a wall in his progression, I agree.

Countertrey wrote:How are they "overated"? Justify that they are overated???? Who is running around screaming that they are a finished product?

+1 This is exactly it.

didn't orakpo say he is where he needs to be as a passrusher ..... was not going to add any technique to his game

I don't think any NFL player would openly admit that they don't need to improve their game, no matter how good they are.

skinsfan#33 wrote:I agree with him that he has good points on defense in general, but where we
disagree is wether or not his points have any merit pertaining to or defense.

The defense does need to improve on getting off of the field on 3rd down. And they were BETTER, notice I did NOT say good, I said better.... They were better at 3rd down efficiency when the offense was decent earlier in the year. Also, I believe they were tops in the league at one point.

That in itself show's that the offense has more to do with them getting off of the field than their own deficiencies.

StorminMormon86 wrote:If they have to keep running back on the field because of inconsistent play by our O, then they have to shut the other team down.

LOL!

crazyhorse1 wrote: But the guy who bothers me the most is Orakpo.

He seems to have hit a wall in his progression, I agree.

Countertrey wrote:How are they "overated"? Justify that they are overated???? Who is running around screaming that they are a finished product?

+1 This is exactly it.

BRIAN ORAKPO IS GETTING GASHED on the run!!!!!!

maybe Bowen doesn't help enough but ORAKPO continually takes bad angles like he doesn't make good defensive reads on the run. Hard to determine if this is a product of Haslett's calling. I tend to see our D playing too aggressive towards the pass and dropping LBs back extra yard or two as well.

overated ..... maybe
improved over last years for sure
next year we add a player or 2 and go from there

redskinz4ever wrote:overated ..... maybe
improved over last years for sure
next year we add a player or 2 and go from there

How dare you..., having the audacity to think ahead!! The nerve of you.

I didn't know that the D was rated all that highly. How can such a D held in such low regard be over-rated?

dup

welch wrote:I didn't know that the D was rated all that highly. How can such a D held in such low regard be over-rated?

I can explain.

Before the season, the optimists said we'd maybe go 8-8, the pessimists said we sucked and would win like four games maz. When we went 3-1 the pessimists became fair weather band wagoners. Then when we lost 3/4 our O and it turned out our D wasn't going to go from close to dead last to shut down in one year and we lost three straight. Now it looks like we'll win maybe 6 games, more then they thought when we started the season which proves they are right and even though we'll still likely win more then they said, it proves Shannahan sucks and we are worse then we thought even though we'll still probably win more games then they thought.

And Shannahan is personally responsible for us sucking for 20 years, he did it on purpose.

No, it doesn't make more sense then that.

welch wrote:I didn't know that the D was rated all that highly. How can such a D held in such low regard be over-rated?

to add to kaz's musings

there are many that have forgotten how bad a state this franchise was in from top to bottom

Snyder has turned over control and the franchise is trying to get some of it's respectability back

some fans only see what they want to see and going 3-1 was blinding many to the reality that the offensive woes here, compounded by not getting a good QB, were not going to suddenly become competitive

this is a team game and all facets have to be working well for a team to have consistent success

we have seen many games this year, where better teams lost games that they clearly should have won by not executing TOGETHER


this defense is not a very good defense but it is a lot closer to helping this franchise put a consistently competitive product on the field each week


the last 2 weeks have seen the Redskins play some very bad football with some questionable game planning and in-game adjustments - this is not really a good indication of where we are at

this franchise has a plan & is being managed by guys that will drag this unit back to being accepted as a competitve team again

The Redskins were possibly over-rated when they were 3-1
this team is a lot better than many think but not near as good as some think

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

redskinz4ever wrote:overated ..... maybe
improved over last years for sure
next year we add a player or 2 and go from there

How dare you..., having the audacity to think ahead!! The nerve of you.

SkinsJock wrote:The Redskins were possibly over-rated when they were 3-1 this team is a lot better than many think but not near as good as some think

I think this is the most accurate description of the team anyone has ever given. I just hope our "better" side shows up this Sunday.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:The Redskins were possibly over-rated when they were 3-1 this team is a lot better than many think but not near as good as some think

I think this is the most accurate description of the team anyone has ever given. I just hope our "better" side shows up this Sunday.

See, you're setting yourself up for failure. Look man, this is the reality of it. Most of this "good side" you're talking about is on IR. So don't expect much.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

welch wrote:I didn't know that the D was rated all that highly. How can such a D held in such low regard be over-rated?

And Shannahan is personally responsible for us sucking for 20 years, he did it on purpose.

No, it doesn't make more sense then that.

This all true....

Who made "the Danny" give up those FUTURE picks so we could get a franchise QB to lead the Skins?

You know, that QB he traded for a future pick as soon as he got here, the one that is in Oakland now.

Didn't Shanny do that....

Who made "the Danny" trade away that pro bowl CB and of course a draft pick for a RB that still has a house in Denver (with a stripper pole in the Master Bedroom) and doesn't even play football anymore.

Didn't Shanny do that too?

Yeah it's all his fault

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:The Redskins were possibly over-rated when they were 3-1 this team is a lot better than many think but not near as good as some think

I think this is the most accurate description of the team anyone has ever given. I just hope our "better" side shows up this Sunday.

See, you're setting yourself up for failure. Look man, this is the reality of it. Most of this "good side" you're talking about is on IR. So don't expect much.

You're right CLL - too many here were positively guzzling the cool aid

The Redskins do have a bunch of key players that cannot contribute - the fact is that even WITH those players they were just not really as good as some here thought

this franchise is recovering and is part of the way back to being a respectable franchise again

too many here looked at quick turnarounds by other franchises and thought - "why not here .." that is STUPID
those other franchises were being managed by NFL savvy people - they had a plan - we had Snyder & Cerrato

Bruce & Mike have made mistakes but for the most part they have done well - it was always going to take time

3-1 could just as easily have been 4-0 - HELL, we could be 6-1 right now - we would still be a franchise looking for a good QB AND we would be over-rated by many here

we are not a bad team anymore - it will take a little longer to get good though
it's not so much the injuries, we have a lot of work to do to get over the STUPIDITY of Dumb & Dumber


enjoy the progress - it is happening

it was never going to happen quickly - GET OVER IT

the defense is certainly not there yet but it is a lot further along the road than the offense