Kilmer72 wrote:The thing to try to understand is the players are backing him. I wonder what it is they see Beck doing in practice?
Nothing because Beck has yet to practice with the starters since preseason. Moss is the only one who is "backing" Grossman at this point. What other choice does he have? If he comes out and publically trashes Grossman and clamors for Beck that would cause friction in the locker room. Something you don't want to create this early in the season.
Kilmer72 wrote:If you put Beck in and he fails then what?
To counter that, there's always the possibility that you put Beck in and he succeeds. What is there to lose at this point? We know what we're going to get out of Grossman. Even after a bye week, he still continued to regress. We don't know what we have with Beck. But it seems almost universal that everyone who's seen both Beck and Grossman play think we have a better shot with Beck to give the Skins some W's.
Kilmer72 wrote: Lets face it we need a better QB. Why did Rex beat out Beck in the competition? The decision they made is one I agreed with despite lots of people saying "Beck has more upside"
We don't know if we need a better QB yet. Rex beat out Beck in the preseason (in my opinion) because he's Kyle's boy and the Shanahan's want to prove that they can take a mediocre (and I use that term loosely) quarterback like Grossman and make him work in their "system".
"That's a clown question, bro" - - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman "But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have" - - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America
StorminMormon86 wrote:I understand the logic of not benching your starting quarterback when you have a winning record, but logic does not apply to your team if your starting quarterback is Rex Grossman. I still did not see how he "won" the starting job from Beck in the first place. Simply because he was the "veteran" who knew this offense better? Grossman has had his chance to show us that he has changed from his old ways over the course of the 8 games that he has started for the Skins. His record as a starter is 4-4 which is decent if you want to be a .500 team. However, he's turned the ball over 19 times since being named the starter! 19 times in 8 games is enough to prove without a shadow of a doubt that the "Bad Rex" is alive and well and isn't going anywhere anytime soon. He has regressed all season long. Why do people still want to see him as their starter? Ok so if they stick with Grossman and he goes to Carolina and lights up their D with 4 TD passes, who cares!? Everyone knows there's just another 4 INT game right around the corner and what happens if it's against another division rival? We needed to win that Eagles game to destroy any hopes the "Dream Team" had of being contenders in the NFC East. And thanks to Grossman, we helped them renew hope. And for that alone he should be benched. The time for Beck is now people.
well said or written in this case not sure what beck has but it cant be worse than grossman
Kilmer72 wrote:The thing to try to understand is the players are backing him. I wonder what it is they see Beck doing in practice?
Nothing because Beck has yet to practice with the starters since preseason. Moss is the only one who is "backing" Grossman at this point. What other choice does he have? If he comes out and publically trashes Grossman and clamors for Beck that would cause friction in the locker room. Something you don't want to create this early in the season.
Kilmer72 wrote:If you put Beck in and he fails then what?
To counter that, there's always the possibility that you put Beck in and he succeeds. What is there to lose at this point? We know what we're going to get out of Grossman. Even after a bye week, he still continued to regress. We don't know what we have with Beck. But it seems almost universal that everyone who's seen both Beck and Grossman play think we have a better shot with Beck to give the Skins some W's.
Kilmer72 wrote: Lets face it we need a better QB. Why did Rex beat out Beck in the competition? The decision they made is one I agreed with despite lots of people saying "Beck has more upside"
We don't know if we need a better QB yet. Rex beat out Beck in the preseason (in my opinion) because he's Kyle's boy and the Shanahan's want to prove that they can take a mediocre (and I use that term loosely) quarterback like Grossman and make him work in their "system".
Actually, Moss isn't the only one. Orakpo is another and Doc Walker on ESPN radio confirmed that most of the locker room supports Rex being the starter. If this is the right move or not is not what I am saying; just that they might have seen more of Beck than just preseason as you are saying. Hell I don't know, I am just a fan not an insider with all the real info.
If Beck succeeds I am all for it. I am not against Beck. I did see a noodle arm in preseason but, that just could have been because there wasn't anyone else to throw the ball. Again, think back to the competition. Did Rex throw the only interception in the preseason? Did he only get the job because he was Kyle's bud? Did Kyle give his endorsement for Beck before and during Rex return? Lets be real. I like Becks scrambling. Beck has the mobility as we all know. I have yet to watch a practice and say for sure that either Rex or Beck is better. I am just repeating what not only the locker room says via Doc but, if Rex is so bad and it is only because he is friends with Kyle that he has the job, then the whole coaching staff is a farce and need to be dismantled and will not succeed. I say this because...you can not have a head coach and an offensive coordinator hurting the chances of your team on purpose. Or we could actually support and go along with the product we are being given.
I think you have to keep playing Grossman on a short leash. It sets a bad precident that players don't get second chances, and to be quite honest, two of those interceptions I was ok with... The long ball to Davis on 3rd down is equivalent to a punt if it goes incomplete, and the scramble int. Gaffney needs to come back for that ball. The third int was the long ball that was about three inches from being a TD. The 4th was a bad decision to Fred Davis although Fred put it on himself. What happens if Beck starts and loses against the Panthers. Things are gonna spiral out of control.
As much as I would love to see Beck, I think Grossman has a huge game against the Panthers. He seems to play better under pressure.
Miss you 21
12/17/09 - Ding Dong the Witch is Dead...Which Old Witch? The Wicked Witch.
Now that I think about it. I actually liked the preseason competition. It brought the best out of both quarterbacks. Start Rex Grossman and let Beck run the offense for the second half.
roybus14 wrote:This should not have been an issue if this team was truly going "young" and this was a rebuilding year. Beck should have started from day one.
Beck is older than Grossman.
But I agree, I wanted him from day 1.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
chiefhog44 wrote:I think you have to keep playing Grossman on a short leash. It sets a bad precident that players don't get second chances, and to be quite honest, two of those interceptions I was ok with... The long ball to Davis on 3rd down is equivalent to a punt if it goes incomplete, and the scramble int. Gaffney needs to come back for that ball. The third int was the long ball that was about three inches from being a TD. The 4th was a bad decision to Fred Davis although Fred put it on himself.
Actually the 4th was the scramble to Gafney that was horribly underthrown. Had he made that pass, Gafney has an easy TD.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
Ok so with out looking into preseason or the massive amounts of turnovers grossy has had let's view this one game.
4 ints at times where a better qb or stronger arm could have a TD, or he keeps his eyes on one guy instead of making his progressions and makes a total bone head choice. I saw from the TV him target the unopen receiver and make awful choices. Pathetic a 12 year old from china knows better then gross (thanks Madden)
Ok so he sucked arse w a total of 150yards? If that? Completion ratio? Qb rating? ZERO third down conversions and ZERO points from him.
Beck not only completed the only pass for over 20yards he also converted the ONLY third down of the game, he scored our lone TD, and he actually rushed for about 15 yards including a TD. I really dug seeing a b&g qb bust off a run for a first then scramble to extend the play and make a good pass. Beck pnws grossman. No one supports the chump the team supports what ever the coaches tell them to support come on now.
Its also my belief that beck commands this Offense better then gross- and this was rusty off the bench with no first team snaps in over a month! Oh ya and he got my boy Austin a catch! BOM WINNING!!!
#21 forever in our hearts “I wanted to just… put his lights out ….because, you know, …Dallas sucks…” - Dexter Manley
Yes the team has to support whoever the starting quarterback is. And as it stands right now, Grossman is still the starter. Do you know what that would do to Grossman's mentality (not to mention the team morale) if the players are calling for him to be benched only for Shanahan to turn around days later and name Grossman the starter? If Beck is named the starter today (and I pray to God he is), I can guarantee he'll have 100% of the team's support, just as Grossman is getting his share right now.
And I have yet to see this noodle arm on Beck that people are saying they saw. His one pass that was horrid in the Philly game was because his arm hit off of Chester's helmet. I think his arm looked pretty damn good all things considered (him coming off the bench cold, not actually playing in an NFL game since 2007, etc.)
EDIT: Beck's headset was also malfunctioning, so that probably didn't help matters much either.
The players and coaches will TOTALLY support whomever is the starting QB
Grossman has been starting because Mike & Kyle think he gives them the best QB to run this (apparently complicated) offense
RUMORS are that Beck starts
- no matter who plays QB, the offense will not be effective UNLESS Kyle prepares better + makes better decisions during the game
Last edited by SkinsJock on Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
VERY strong indications from Redskins Park that Beck will start
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
SkinsJock wrote:VERY strong indications from Redskins Park that Beck will start
We have a winner!
good call ATX - Beck gives our offense a better chance BUT Kyle has to call better plays too
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
CanesSkins26 wrote:For one week, anyway. I fully expect the starting qb job to flip back and forth throughout the rest of the season.
I don't see Shanahan doing that. Herm Edwards brought up a good point on ESPN this morning that by flip flopping between quarterbacks all season long will screw with not only the mentality of the quarterbacks but also the whole team. Unless there's an injury or REALLY horrible performance by Beck, he'll remain in the rest of the season.
CanesSkins26 wrote:For one week, anyway. I fully expect the starting qb job to flip back and forth throughout the rest of the season.
I don't see Shanahan doing that. Herm Edwards brought up a good point on ESPN this morning that by flip flopping between quarterbacks all season long will screw with not only the mentality of the quarterbacks but also the whole team. Unless there's an injury or REALLY horrible performance by Beck, he'll remain in the rest of the season.
I agree with you Stormin. Shanny stayed with Grossman for 5 games because he doesn't flip QBs. Rex didn't protect the football and that is why he is out. If Beck doesn't protect the football, then ... well, we might see Crompton, because if there is a point where Beck is deemed a failure, the season will be lost by then anyway, so why go back to Grossman? Clearly Grossman has proven that he cannot be the guy who holds the spot for the franchise QB that cometh. You might as well see what you have in Crompton.
CanesSkins26 wrote:For one week, anyway. I fully expect the starting qb job to flip back and forth throughout the rest of the season.
I don't see Shanahan doing that. Herm Edwards brought up a good point on ESPN this morning that by flip flopping between quarterbacks all season long will screw with not only the mentality of the quarterbacks but also the whole team. Unless there's an injury or REALLY horrible performance by Beck, he'll remain in the rest of the season.
I agree with you Stormin. Shanny stayed with Grossman for 5 games because he doesn't flip QBs. Rex didn't protect the football and that is why he is out. If Beck doesn't protect the football, then ... well, we might see Crompton, because if there is a point where Beck is deemed a failure, the season will be lost by then anyway, so why go back to Grossman? Clearly Grossman has proven that he cannot be the guy who holds the spot for the franchise QB that cometh. You might as well see what you have in Crompton.
Hell, why not?
However, My take is that the coaches will play the guy who gives us the best chance to win, WHOEVER that is.
Daniel Snyder has defined incompetence, failure and greed to true Washington Redskins fans for over a decade and a half. Stay away from football operations !!!
CanesSkins26 wrote:For one week, anyway. I fully expect the starting qb job to flip back and forth throughout the rest of the season.
I don't see Shanahan doing that. Herm Edwards brought up a good point on ESPN this morning that by flip flopping between quarterbacks all season long will screw with not only the mentality of the quarterbacks but also the whole team. Unless there's an injury or REALLY horrible performance by Beck, he'll remain in the rest of the season.
I agree with you Stormin. Shanny stayed with Grossman for 5 games because he doesn't flip QBs. Rex didn't protect the football and that is why he is out. If Beck doesn't protect the football, then ... well, we might see Crompton, because if there is a point where Beck is deemed a failure, the season will be lost by then anyway, so why go back to Grossman? Clearly Grossman has proven that he cannot be the guy who holds the spot for the franchise QB that cometh. You might as well see what you have in Crompton.
Hell, why not?
However, My take is that the coaches will play the guy who gives us the best chance to win, WHOEVER that is.
I think that's certainly true, RiC... but I think it's also clear that loosing his job does not have a long term corrective effect on Grossman's football mind... there would be no point in expecting a different outcome from him by putting him back in as the starter, except in an emergency. Grossman is what he is. He will occasionally be good... and often horrible. If Beck fails... might as well find out what you have in Crompton is the word, indeed.
"That's a clown question, bro" - - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman "But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have" - - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America
Countertrey wrote:I think that's certainly true, RiC... but I think it's also clear that loosing his job does not have a long term corrective effect on Grossman's football mind...
And we know that from his extensive experience in the subject...
Hail to the Redskins!
Groucho: Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him
Twain: A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
Mike will go with Beck (& maybe Grossman) for a while
we will not see anyone else at QB until the end of the season ... if at all
2012 = we're drafting a QB - if Beck does not show he can handle the job well enough, BOTH these guys will be gone
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
If Beck proves to be a bust (and I pray to God he's the next Kurt Warner), I wonder if after drafting a new "franchise" QB will they keep either Grossman, Beck, or both as a backup/s?
