Redskins will meet with JaMarcus Russell

[Skinsfan55]

What is wrong with you people? The sky is not falling and NO sane person (not even Russell himself) is seriously considering JaMarcus Russell for a starting job for the Redskins.

Teams ALWAYS bring guys for tryouts during the bye week, and frankly Russell is incredibly talented. He can throw a football a country mile, he's a former #1 overall pick and he's only 25. Why WOULDN'T you consider him as a long term project?

In any case, it's rumored he showed up at the workout weighing 286 which if true, would signal he's not worthy of any kind of investment on the part of the Redskins, but giving the guy a workout is a lot different than bringing him in to push for the starting job.

[Countertrey]

^ +1

[Skinsfan55]

Also:

LOL, OMG Shanny also had J.P. Losman in for a workout! *projectile vomit*. Just what we need another Tulane quarterback... and one with Jim Fassel's negative UFL influence! BURN HIM AT THE STAKE!

[SkinsJock]

I am not in favor of making any changes to the coaching staff OR adding players that don't fit what we need
IF the coaches think any player not presently here can help this team then I would bring that player in

Normally, I would agree with that ... but this situation is beginning to lose containment. And a bit of fence mending needs to happen, and that is not going to happen without a mandate from the top. So the first course of action would be to sit the Shanahan & Son team down and read them the riot act first .... something in the order of W T F are you two thinking? would be a good start. Then, I'd say, now I expect you to FIX the relationship AND the dreadful o-line performance ... you've got my checkbook ... so no excuses.
If they refuse .... hand them both their walking papers.
Now if there were better options at QB for now and the foreseeable future (next year), that would be different. But please tell me who is available that is better than McNabb? He's the guy we need to remain in place to put the most competitive product on the field, (REGARDLESS OF WHO THE COACHES ARE) while we attempt to draft a future franchise QB next year or the year after.
We cannot afford to allow ARROGANCE from a head coach or his son to sour the locker room, and disrespect the team leader that we just traded picks for.

I am in favor of Mike taking a close look at what has happened and learning from the mistakes he made here recently

Problem #1, he has made it abundantly clear that he doesn't make mistakes, or at least he isn't willing to own up to them. You have to admit you have a problem before you can begin to correct it.
I really am beginning to believe this is an ego driven father & son team that needs some directives issued them before their own arrogance implodes the team chemistry.

I do think that we will end up this season with a much better outlook for our future than we had at the end of last season
I do think that there will not be anybody that is currently a starter on the offensive line (apart from Trent Williams) that will still be here in any capacity next year

Not according to Mikey ... he thinks Cory LictenSchmuck is playing very well .... while throwing McNabb under the bus, and putting a cold Grossman in to replace him.
Let me ask you a serious question ... aside from that "swinging gate" play, tell me what decision that Jim Zorn ever made that was worse than pulling McNabb and then lying about the reason for doing it?
A panel of analysts were asked that very question, and not one of them could name an example.
Wilbon's article was titled "Dumb & Dumber" ... and frankly, you need not even read the article ... the title says it all.
In the words of my favorite comedian Ron White .... "you can't fix stupid".

I understand your points and think that you have presented them well - I just don't think that we should be reacting to anything at this time

the season is only half way and while this particular "episode" is troubling to say the least I'm of the opinion that we go down the road a little further/farther


we have made some progress - I understand that the McNabb trade hurts in some ways - Not doing a deal for Peppers AND not letting Haynesworth leave for nothing were very good moves IMO

we have a lot of work to do and while I'm troubled by this past Sunday I think we let this play out because more harm than good comes from over reacting

btw - I disagree - I think that the Rex move was not good but what Zorn (or somebody) did with that play was worse - to compound it - they tried it again

things are not good but I happen to believe that the communication and relationship between Kyle and McNabb is not near as bad as some believe


boy oh boy do we need a lot of changes but I think we've made this bed and now we are stuck with it for a little longer

[SkinsJock]

I MIGHT have to change part of my sig though

[Manchester_Redskin]

I see the plan ...

we're gonna play Haynesworth, Russell and the marshmallow man from Ghostbusters, up front in the 3-4 defense

[1niksder]

I am not in favor of making any changes to the coaching staff OR adding players that don't fit what we need
IF the coaches think any player not presently here can help this team then I would bring that player in

Normally, I would agree with that ... but this situation is beginning to lose containment. And a bit of fence mending needs to happen, and that is not going to happen without a mandate from the top. So the first course of action would be to sit the Shanahan & Son team down and read them the riot act first .... something in the order of W T F are you two thinking? would be a good start. Then, I'd say, now I expect you to FIX the relationship AND the dreadful o-line performance ... you've got my checkbook ... so no excuses.
If they refuse .... hand them both their walking papers.
Now if there were better options at QB for now and the foreseeable future (next year), that would be different. But please tell me who is available that is better than McNabb? He's the guy we need to remain in place to put the most competitive product on the field, (REGARDLESS OF WHO THE COACHES ARE) while we attempt to draft a future franchise QB next year or the year after.
We cannot afford to allow ARROGANCE from a head coach or his son to sour the locker room, and disrespect the team leader that we just traded picks for.

I am in favor of Mike taking a close look at what has happened and learning from the mistakes he made here recently

Problem #1, he has made it abundantly clear that he doesn't make mistakes, or at least he isn't willing to own up to them. You have to admit you have a problem before you can begin to correct it.
I really am beginning to believe this is an ego driven father & son team that needs some directives issued them before their own arrogance implodes the team chemistry.

I do think that we will end up this season with a much better outlook for our future than we had at the end of last season
I do think that there will not be anybody that is currently a starter on the offensive line (apart from Trent Williams) that will still be here in any capacity next year

Not according to Mikey ... he thinks Cory LictenSchmuck is playing very well .... while throwing McNabb under the bus, and putting a cold Grossman in to replace him.
Let me ask you a serious question ... aside from that "swinging gate" play, tell me what decision that Jim Zorn ever made that was worse than pulling McNabb and then lying about the reason for doing it?
A panel of analysts were asked that very question, and not one of them could name an example.
Wilbon's article was titled "Dumb & Dumber" ... and frankly, you need not even read the article ... the title says it all.
In the words of my favorite comedian Ron White .... "you can't fix stupid".

I understand your points and think that you have presented them well - I just don't think that we should be reacting to anything at this time

the season is only half way and while this particular "episode" is troubling to say the least I'm of the opinion that we go down the road a little further/farther


we have made some progress - I understand that the McNabb trade hurts in some ways - Not doing a deal for Peppers AND not letting Haynesworth leave for nothing were very good moves IMO

we have a lot of work to do and while I'm troubled by this past Sunday I think we let this play out because more harm than good comes from over reacting

btw - I disagree - I think that the Rex move was not good but what Zorn (or somebody) did with that play was worse - to compound it - they tried it again

things are not good but I happen to believe that the communication and relationship between Kyle and McNabb is not near as bad as some believe


boy oh boy do we need a lot of changes but I think we've made this bed and now we are stuck with it for a little longer

I think Mike Shanahan and McNabb are good to go, One is the coach and one is the starting QB. Shanny is not Zorn so he won't be trying the Fat Albert treatment on Donny, I mean he likes Beck (as a project), but he had 8-9 other DL when he did the AH thing. He knows or should I say now knows he has no one behind McNabb. His son is the OC and I don't he and DM are on the same page, and Kyle and Grossman are "boys".

I think Lil' Shanny had a lot to do with McNabb getting the hook Sunday.

I think at some point after the game Big Shanny reminded himself that he wanted his here to learn from, then asked himself why the hell I'm I listening to my kid.

I think he is looking at Russell because he saw his backup go in for one play and not only gave up the ball but gave up points.

I don't think Russell is that big of a deal, the invited Matt Jones in and he declined (former 1st round pick at WR but played QB), they invited others like defensive end Charles Grant, cornerback Tye Hill, receiver Chad Jackson, receiver Taurus Johnson, defensive tackle William Joseph, cornerback Justin Miller, defensive back Sha'reef Rashad, and receiver Bobby Williams they all showed up. It is the last day of work for the players until next Monday.

[chiefhog44]

What is wrong with you people? The sky is not falling and NO sane person (not even Russell himself) is seriously considering JaMarcus Russell for a starting job for the Redskins.

Teams ALWAYS bring guys for tryouts during the bye week, and frankly Russell is incredibly talented. He can throw a football a country mile, he's a former #1 overall pick and he's only 25. Why WOULDN'T you consider him as a long term project?

In any case, it's rumored he showed up at the workout weighing 286 which if true, would signal he's not worthy of any kind of investment on the part of the Redskins, but giving the guy a workout is a lot different than bringing him in to push for the starting job.

I know right? I was starting to crawl into the corner with my thoughts. What's it hurt to bring a guy like that in, and heck, sign him to a minimum deal and let him learn under a pro for a while. Wouldn't that be the smart thing to do?

[RayNAustin]

I understand your points and think that you have presented them well - I just don't think that we should be reacting to anything at this time

the season is only half way and while this particular "episode" is troubling to say the least I'm of the opinion that we go down the road a little further/farther

Please don't misunderstand .. I'm following you, and your points are well taken. And I'm not suggesting that Snyder fire Shanahan at this stage .. but I do think he has every right to be put off by these developments, and Shanahan is showing no signs that his brashness and arrogance will be self restrained .. I see this situation close to becoming UNFIXABLE without a heart to heart between ONWER and EMPLOYEE ... reminding him that poking people in the eye is likely to result in a poke in the eye for himself and his son .... in a diplomatic fashion, of course. Then, if things continue heading south, you take the velvet glove off, and issue an ultimatum or walking papers.

we have made some progress - I understand that the McNabb trade hurts in some ways - Not doing a deal for Peppers AND not letting Haynesworth leave for nothing were very good moves IMO

Last Saturday, I would have agreed with you on this .. probably because I would still like to, but can't. And here's why:

When you look at this situation purely from an unbiased perspective ... how much progress has really been made? And how many brilliant personnel moves have been made in comparison to poor ones?

From a progress standpoint .... save for a holding penalty on Dallas, they win the game. Save for a dropped TD pass by Philly in the final seconds, they win the game. This team could EASILY be 2-6 right now, which is PRECISELY where they were last year at this stage. And in game 8 this year, we again lose to the Detroit Lions .... so what is the difference between this team and last year's 4-12 team? One holding penalty, and one dropped pass ... with a team that has been relatively healthy compared to the injury plagued 2009 Redskins.

If we are going to look at this situation with complete honesty and clarity ... the 2009 Redskins lost 6 games by a total of 18 points ... 3 points per game .... with 4 of those losses against 3 playoff teams and the Super Bowl Champs ... losses to Dallas 7-6 ... Philly 27-24 .... Saints 33-30 ... and Chargers 23-20. That team also lost to the Lions, but only by 5 points .... that team beat the Rams ... compared to this year's team that got HANDLED by both the Rams and Lions.

Progress you say? No ... not progress ... a little good fortune coming in the form of TWO PLAYS is the only thing that separates the 2010 Redskins from the 2009 Redskins, sharing the same miserable record that the team suffered through in the first 8 games last year.

As far as personnel moves ... the two biggest additions is Trent Williams and Donovan McNabb. Williams is a no brainer, as it doesn't take brilliance to use a top 5 pick on an obvious need position. And I don't know who orchestrated the McNabb trade .. was that Shanahan or Bruce Allen? From the behavior of Shanahan, it doesn't appear to me that McNabb was his choice.

Aside from those two players ... we've got Banks and Torain who look good ... we also have the two non-impact players, Galloway and Roydel Williams who do NOTHING (while cutting Devon Thomas who at least returned kicks and wasn't older than Brett Favre). Then we move on to the Willie Parker-Larry Johnson experiment which defies explanation. Last but not least, we have the offensive line ... which by any measure is WORSE than last year's patchwork line (other than Williams) because at least that line could run block in the first half of the season before reaching the 3rd stringers and grabbing guys off the street. And it's not like there was a cap issue .... no cap this year .... and there were free agents out there that could have helped this online, and the offense ... but they passed.

Throw in the Haynesworth saga, and Shanahan's obvious intentional retaliation ... the conditioning test fiasco ... the illness thing ... the constant poking in the eye (just because he could, because he's the Boss), and now, the Donovan McNabb debacle.

Overall, I'd say that excluding Albert and Donovan ... the Shanahan & Son team is a C-minus on personnel, including Albert and Donovan drops that to a solid D-minus ... with anymore of these types of unnecessary exercises of power and authority threatening to cause irreversible damage.

Given the Redskins rather poor 2nd half results in most games, suggests that their football decisions and ability to make adjustments aren't much better than their handling of personnel.

Aside from a little good fortune ... and a bunch of individual efforts from guys like Orakpo, Landry, Hall, McNabb, coming up with big plays ... this team could be 2-6 or even 1-7 right now, and that falling sky would be much easier to see.

we have a lot of work to do and while I'm troubled by this past Sunday I think we let this play out because more harm than good comes from over reacting

btw - I disagree - I think that the Rex move was not good but what Zorn (or somebody) did with that play was worse - to compound it - they tried it again .

Nope ... that Zorn play was an idiotic SINGLE play committed by a guy who had already been undermined and embarrassed by management. And though it is likely to remain an item of comedy on YouTube for a long time, there was no lasting impact to the team the moment the play was blown dead. Shanahan's maneuver on the other hand, undermined and embarrassed the team leader who was in good enough shape to run for his life for 58 minutes, but too stupid and out of shape to run the 2 minute offense at the end with the game on the line, according to his Coach. Such a decision, unlike that one play, can have lasting consequences to the entire team ... and never be forgotten .... again ... NOTHING Zorn ever did comes remotely close to the blunder Shanahan committed ... not just by pulling McNabb ... but also by the excuses he used for doing it.

things are not good but I happen to believe that the communication and relationship between Kyle and McNabb is not near as bad as some believe

What? And what makes you think that? Because Donovan and Kyle haven't come to blows on the sideline? That only Daddy, and not Son, told the world that McNabb wasn't smart enough or in good enough shape to run the offense of the Genius Child (who was likely the one calling for the move to begin with)?

I don't think recognizing the magnitude of the situation is an overreaction. The overreaction was pulling McNabb ... and the rest is just pure dishonesty from the coach ... something that can only undermine the team's confidence in him. You can respect a man that says ... "Hey, I'm human too .. and I screwed that one up". No one respects an incompetent LIAR that is willing to blame others for his own mistakes.

boy oh boy do we need a lot of changes but I think we've made this bed and now we are stuck with it for a little longer

You're right about that, and I just hope that this time around, we don't repeat mistakes of the past by blaming poor coaching decisions on the players.

Like I've already said ... this team needs McNabb to remain healthy, physically and mentally. So far, all I've seen from the Shanahan Clan is the inability to put a line on the field to keep McNabb physically healthy .. while going out of their way to damage the mental side too.

But, perhaps the most inexplicable part of this is the extreme level of poor judgement demonstrated by Shanahan. Forget the other peronnel mistakes, that happens to a lot of coaches. Forget the Haynesworth fiasco, some of that Albert brought on himself. Just the McNabb thing is a damning indictment of Shanahan's intelligence and wisdom, because none of it was necessary.

Even though it is almost unanimous that the move to pull McNabb was a bone headed thing to do .... Shanahan could have simply said afterward "Hey, I made the decision to pull him out because he'd been chased, harassed, and beat up all day long due to our poor efforts in pass blocking. I felt Donovan was a little worn down and shell shocked at that point, as would be natural for anyone under those circumstances ... of course he isn't going to agree with that assessment, nor would I expect him to. In any event, I felt it was the right move at the time, and in retrospect, as we all witnessed, it was obviously not the best coaching decision I've ever made. So I'll take responsibility for that. Moving forward, Donovan is still the starting QB, and my decision had nothing to do with a lack of trust in his ability to lead this team. Hopefully, we're going to figure out how to protect him better, because no one can expect a QB to be successful under those conditions. We've all got to do better."

That simple statement would have avoided all of this unnecessary controversy ... no bad feelings ... no embarrassment ... done ... end of story.

What did he actually do? He made a dreadfully poor decision, and compounded the error by refusing to admit it ... while lying, and basically telling the world that McNabb is both incompetent and out of shape. He went on to deny what the real problems are by claiming that Kory Lictenwhatever played very well, when asked about the oline issues and why Dockery wasn't playing (basically saying to Dockery, you suck).

In the end, to most it is now pretty clear that we have a Head Coach that not only has serious decision making issues ... but zero credibility, integrity, or wisdom.

Too me the choice is clear ... if it comes to a choice between Shanahan and McNabb, I'd rather see Shanahan hit the road, because nobody is going to want to play for a guy that they KNOW THEY CAN'T TRUST, and who will be quick to blame them for his coaching failures.

[SkinsJock]

We'll see how it plays out here - I don't think they're going to follow any of your assessments as well founded as they seem to you

I think that the issue is nowhere near as big as you're making it out to be and while I think Shanahan made some very bad mistakes I doubt that it affects the locker room or his standing with both the players and coaches
after last Sunday and Monday, that was my major concern - I just don't think it's playing out that badly in the locker room

we are lucky in that this is a bye week but I think this HC will have everything back in gear and getting ready to beat the Eagles in short order

I also happen to think that the 'plan' to bring in Losman & Russell was made before last Sunday - these guys know we have a QB issue if anything happens to McNabb and are just doing their due diligence - I'm sure that as many issues as we have with so many positions that these guys are trying to find anyone that can help

I do agree however and I would not be at all surprised if MS has not already had a "conversation" with Snyder but I doubt very much that will go any further

it seems to me that we have a much more agressive and headstrong, ego maniac for a HC than we thought, or some of us at least
not that that's a bad thing, per se

[RayNAustin]

Well, now it seems that Kyle is trying to rehabilitate Dad by saying "I think his words came out wrong" .... oh, ya think? And I guess tomorrow Mike will now have to come out and either admit he misspoke or admit that Kyle's words came out wrong, because Kyle indicated that both he and McNabb were told of the possibility he might be benched if he was struggling. When asked that specific question Monday, Mike said no, he did not tell either of them of such a pre-game plan .... and that was confirmed by McNabb after Kyle's tuesday comments when he said "I never heard that part".

Now as of Tuesday, everyone in the league are still scratching their heads, and though no one is willing to say it aloud ... the underlying consensus is that Mike Shanahan's explanation and account of the events "don't make sense", which is a polite way of saying Bull *sh$t*.

So the issue, in my opinion remains an issue of questionable character and honesty on top of poor decision making ... and now, the 30 year old trying to perform damage control, contradicts what his father said the day before ... and nobody seems to agree with what was said prior to the game.

Frankly, it all boils down to how Donovan chooses to deal with this ... because it's too late for Mike Shanahan to backtrack and say the right thing, because that would be admitting he lied through his teeth, and that ain't gonna happen.

But don't think for a second that this isn't going to play over and over in McNabb's mind for the rest of the year, even when he says it's not an issue, as he surely will.

And this could go either way ... Donovan might be able to use this as motivation to prove both father and son wrong ... or he could take a step backwards by trying too hard to prove himself in their eyes.

Donovan's comments yesterday were pretty clear ... contradicting Kyle's version of the pre-game conversations, and he made it perfectly clear that his "work ethic" had never before been questioned ... in response to the talk about him being urged to pick up the pace in practice.

My personal opinion is that given the conditions against the Lions, McNabb played as well as anyone could be expected to play under such manhandling of the o-line by the Lions d-line. And if it were not for McNabb's ability, he would have been sacked twice as much as he was.

In addition, given that McNabb is 5th all time in 4th Q comebacks among active players ... coupled with the fact that he leads the league this year in plays of 50+ yards ... the decision to pull him was nonsensical, ESPECIALLY when the alternative was Rex Grossman.

I mean ... come on ... think .... McNabb is out there getting hammered like a tackling dummy for 58 minutes, with guys hanging on him before he can even finish the drop back .... it's not like he was holding on to the ball too long and causing the sacks ... on some plays they had guys from both edges and the middle converging on him as if there was NOBODY blocking. The blocking was not just poor ... it was embarrassingly pathetic to get run over like that by a 1-5 team who's 2 of 3 wins in the past two years have come at the expense of the Redskins ... and these two numbskull coaches want to blame the QB ? How out of touch with reality can two grown men be?

To add insult to injury, the post game comments and reasoning behind the decision basically said that McNabb wasn't smart enough to know the system, not in shape enough to run it ... and then ... questioning practice habits insinuating he's lazy TOO !!!

Of course, if McNabb fails, they will be vindicated in their own eyes, never considering their role in it ... and if he sets the world on fire, they'll take credit for it ... it was all just a motivational tool.

That's how people of questionable character operate ... and as far as I'm concerned, once you've proven yourself to be a liar, not much else matters ... when it accompanies incompetent decision making ... there is no where to go but down.

And I don't believe either Shanahan has the humility to admit being wrong about anything ... but what concerns me the most is the likelihood that it is the man-child who believes that rex Grossman is a viable alternative to McNabb, and is in his father's ear.

One more episode like Sunday, and you can pretty much forget the possibility that McNabb will re-sign with the Redskins next year, if he is not already counting the days to get out of Washington. And who could blame him? He's the second most sacked QB in the league right now with 22 next to Cutler (27), and that is with his mobility and ability to avoid sacks. That's just slightly worse than last year when Campbell was sacked 43 times in 16 games. And at least 25% or more of Campbell's sacks were totally on him and not the line. Campbell doesn't have nearly the ability to avoid sacks as does McNabb, and if Campbell was working behind this JOKE of an o-line, you can bet the sack totals would be higher, and the Redskins would be stewing in the same pot as the Cowboys are right now.

The sky may not have fallen yet ... but the clouds are a lot closer to the ground than 4-4 would suggest.

[SkinsJock]

coulda woulda shoulda - man you have got to get back on whatever you take for whatever it is that gets you all upset

we are seeing a lot of BS right now but I think you are taking it way too seriously

we ARE 4-4 - we could be 0-8 but, somehow, the fact is, we are 4-4


Shanahan is going to stay here IMO for a little while longer so I'd prefer to look at how he's going to handle this going forward than keep pointing out all his faults and warts

he screwed up big time in my opinion but the only thing that concerns me about that is that he still has the full support of both his players and his coaches

I don't think he knows how to get out from under all this so I hope he gets on with getting ready for the Eagles and he let's the fans and media have a lot of fun doing nothing constructive


I don't think that he's lost the locker room and he will work hard to find a way to win this next game and in all honesty that is all that I really hope these guys are truly focused on

[HarleyHog]

I seem to recall that back when Shanny came on board, most posts seemed to think that a .500 record would be a satisfactory display of progress for year
1. You can't rebuild in a single draft
I have severe doubts about Russell , but I have never met the man,and don't have much to judge him by. If he has found the path of righteousness, I would welcome his presence on the team.

[Redskin in Canada]

I seem to recall that back when Shanny came on board, most posts seemed to think that a .500 record would be a satisfactory display of progress for year
1. You can't rebuild in a single draft
I have severe doubts about Russell , but I have never met the man,and don't have much to judge him by. If he has found the path of righteousness, I would welcome his presence on the team.

You are right about the first part of your assessment. 0.500 was expected and we thought it would be satisfactory. And that is whee we are. So, we should be satisfied.

However, the growing pains have been painful and there is no denying that some areas have not improved personnel- or play-wise as they should. It is possible that this OL is marginally better than last years's and it is also possible that some new talent has been brought in a few positions but, for the most part, it is clear that an enormous amount of work and significant changes should take place before we can be at least not be embarrassed by the Rams or the Lions.

The second part, I strongly disagree with. No amount of moral fortitude or "righteousness", as you point out, can make up for a bad player. When I say bad, I do not mean morally or work-ethic only, I mean a player who has shown so poor skills, judgment and technique that he wears shamefully the title of one of the worst busts in Draft NFL history.

Just say NO to JR.

[SkinsJock]

I am not at all sure that Russell will become a good NFL QB but I do think that this franchise will do a much better job of looking at and finding players that might help this franchise than we have done in the past

a lot of players will go through tryouts here but fortunately dumb and dumber are not involved (well, actively involved) and a lot of those players are just getting a look

more hype IMO