The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:I know everybody is expecting me to kill McNabb, but before I do, let me say that I think that pulling him with 2 minutes to go in the game was awful and showed a lack of class. If you want to bench him, you do it during the BYE week.

With that being said, he was terrible. And he looked worst when he had the most time. On the max protect routes to Armstrong where he had all day to throw, he didn't maximize what was given to him. He could have had 2 TDs to Armstrong had he just been accurate and another to Moss. The route in double coverage where he had NO PRESSURE ON HIM was the most reprehensible.

Also:

- Did anybody notice multiple times on the sideline when Kyle Shanahan was perplexed looking at what the offense was running? It was almost like he was saying, that's not what I called.

- In my section at games, there is a running commentary as to how long Torrain will last before he gets hurt as he has never made it 8 games in a season at any level. Looks like we can stop the clock at 6 games.

Here's a couple other things from today:

- I learned that DeAngelo Hall is the most beat CB in the NFL this year by giving up more catches and yards than any other DB. With that being said, I do love his ball hawking qualities and ability to make the big play.

- Jason Campbell's line for the 4-4 Oakland Raiders today was pretty insane...he posted a QB Rating over 120 for the second consecutive week and has a record as a starter in Oakland of 4-2.

Don't gp ga-ga over Jason Campbell. Remember that he was yanked before becasue of poor play.

There are several reasons for today's loss. A penalty on Banks first touchdown run for one. Today showed the Redskins weaknesses in full color. Lousy O-line and McNabb. McNab gets some excuses because of the o-line but it wasn't the o-line that threw into triple coverage and got it picked off. McNabb was once one of the best in the league. His time is done but unfortunately, we do not have anyone else. Before you call for Grossman, remember that he was dumped by Chicago because of his rotten play. At least McNabb can run when necessary. Grossman can't and is a back-up quality quarterback at best.

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:I know everybody is expecting me to kill McNabb, but before I do, let me say that I think that pulling him with 2 minutes to go in the game was awful and showed a lack of class. If you want to bench him, you do it during the BYE week.

With that being said, he was terrible. And he looked worst when he had the most time. On the max protect routes to Armstrong where he had all day to throw, he didn't maximize what was given to him. He could have had 2 TDs to Armstrong had he just been accurate and another to Moss. The route in double coverage where he had NO PRESSURE ON HIM was the most reprehensible.

Also:

- Did anybody notice multiple times on the sideline when Kyle Shanahan was perplexed looking at what the offense was running? It was almost like he was saying, that's not what I called.

- In my section at games, there is a running commentary as to how long Torrain will last before he gets hurt as he has never made it 8 games in a season at any level. Looks like we can stop the clock at 6 games.

Here's a couple other things from today:

- I learned that DeAngelo Hall is the most beat CB in the NFL this year by giving up more catches and yards than any other DB. With that being said, I do love his ball hawking qualities and ability to make the big play.

- Jason Campbell's line for the 4-4 Oakland Raiders today was pretty insane...he posted a QB Rating over 120 for the second consecutive week and has a record as a starter in Oakland of 4-2.

Thank you Wahoo....Yes, Dnab doesn't look so good. I have agreed with your opion about him. You have to admit though he needs help and isn't getting it. I didn't know DHall has that many yards agaisnt him but I am not surprised. His tackling isn't nor has been great in the past but he is a keeper I think. He will make probowl and if he doesn't his peers are crazy but you are right he lets things get by him.

Something else to say. Stone hands was a real good tackler today A positive. I was in and out watching the game so maybe I missed something but I think Los can tackle.

What is your opinion on Kyle? Guys anyone?

Kyle and/or Mike are not the problem, nor is Donovan. The problem, this year and last, was the offensive line. We need to fix it. We will pick up a QB in the draft next year and Donovan will groom him.

Donovan was benched because he failed in managing a game in which we were up by 5 with 4 minutes left. Period. Personally, I don't thin he is altogether healthy, so hopefully we get him and the rest of the team healthy this week.

Calm down fella's. We are a 4-4 team. That's pretty good with the schedule that we just went through.

spudstr04 wrote:From win total alone, we are better than last year already.

wrong....until we get to 5 wins....there is no satisfaction from last year's misery.

tribeofjudah wrote:

spudstr04 wrote:From win total alone, we are better than last year already.

wrong....until we get to 5 wins....there is no satisfaction from last year's misery.

True dat I guess. Just feels better so far

What I hate about the team I love.

This current group of Skins has always gotten too high on themselves. I am sure before the game they thought highly of themselves. Feeling real good about there 4-3 start. This current generation of Skins always drinks the kool aid. They can never resist it. I want them to never be satisfied until the Lombardi trophy is in the trophy case. This is why we had this let down today against the Lions.


I am not going to hammer them to hard for this one. I am still confident our team will get it together.

1. Offensive line had there worst game to date. Still it is a new group of guys. I am sure some fresh talent will be added next year as well.

2. This is also a new offense for Mcnabb. We have to remember that. Yes it is similar to Reids offense in some ways but it is still Mikes system he is learning. Mike is more run heavy to Reids pass heavy system.
Mcnabbs role here in Washington is more of a game manager and playaction QB. Where as in Philly Mcnabb would pass about 60 percent of the time.

3. This game had to be the most undisciplined game this season.
Penalties and mistakes in the critical moments.


Still I am fairly optimistic about our team. I think they will reel off two in a row. Start having another kool aid party and lose one.

Donnie Mac was all class after the game, but it's pretty obvious that pulling him was a HUGE mistake by Shanny and proves that he's not yet trusted to run the offense. He's played poorly in Washington, but the hope was he'd come around and his talent would shine through, this puts contract negotiations in jeopardy.

Skinsfan55 wrote:Donnie Mac was all class after the game, but it's pretty obvious that pulling him was a HUGE mistake by Shanny and proves that he's not yet trusted to run the offense. He's played poorly in Washington, but the hope was he'd come around and his talent would shine through, this puts contract negotiations in jeopardy.

Shanahan's excuse for pulling McNabb was ridiculous. The Cowboys should be happy for that whole debacle, since no one is paying their 1-6 start a whole lot of attention because of it.

Thanks to McNabb, we don't need an offensive line! Just as everyone predicted! It's all Campbell's fault!

Oh wait...

It's time to point out Banks ran for 271 yards Sunday and had a 90 plus TD run called back because of someone else's penalty. He also scored a TD and set up a couple of others. If it hadn't been for the penalty he would have add one of the best return games in Redskin history. He kept us in the game. Period. No doubt at all that he was the Skins' offensive player of the game.

Haynesworth was the D player of the game. He's been awsome now two games in a row. In fact, he has looked like a Hall of Famer. If his head were screwed on right he would probably be one.

crazyhorse1 wrote:It's time to point out Banks ran for 271 yards Sunday and had a 90 plus TD run called back because of someone else's penalty. He also scored a TD and set up a couple of others. If it hadn't been for the penalty he would have add one of the best return games in Redskin history. He kept us in the game. Period. No doubt at all that he was the Skins' offensive player of the game.

Haynesworth was the D player of the game. He's been awsome now two games in a row. In fact, he has looked like a Hall of Famer. If his head were screwed on right he would probably be one.

Totally agreed. Banks made our offense work, or at least gave it the chance to work, more than any other individual player, IMO.

A lot of problems for this team right now.

Defense:

We still are not a good pass-rushing team. Carter and Holliday simply cannot get upfield and are not factors. Haynesworth and Orakpo get pressure every once in awhile on great individual efforts. They were average against the run.

McIntosh is still a liability in coverage. He is a little bit better in man, but still gets beat on big plays. In zone, he is consistently late and struggles to play the ball in the air.

Deangelo Hall is very inconsistent. A lot of the completions he gave up, we were actually in zone (McIntosh being late) but he still does not carry receivers enough, even when no one else is threatening his zone. When we are in 2 deep man, he does not carry the receiver hard enough over the middle into his safety help. He expects the help to be there, but it is generally late and we give up easy 20 yarders.

Carlos Rogers did not get thrown at a lot, but had a chance to save the game on that 4th and 1 TD. His position was perfect, but he simply failed to get a hand or arm in to break the pass up. Kind of the story of his career, perfect position + terrible ball skills.

Kareem Moore is always late. Late getting over in two deep man, late in Cov 2 and late in Cov 1. Deangelo Hall needs to carry better to give him more time, but he also needs to start playing faster.

Offensive:

That was the worst effort of the year up front. The run blocking was not solid and the pass pro was atrocious. Brown was not good at all, Hicks was below average, Rabach was poor, KL was horrendous and Trent Williams played his worst game this season. The frustating thing is a lot of these problems are impossible to correct. We have a talent deffeciency all over our OL and on our DL. Detroit is much better up front and deserved to win the game.

McNabb did not play well. Several plays were just blown up and he had no chance. Other plays he simply missed wide open receivers. He has to those flat routes against the blitz. Teams will continue to blitz (Even though they do not need to) until he can consistently and accurately complete his hot routes. His worst throw of the game will just go down as an incompletion, but it was a dropped pick 6 when we were going in to score. A late stubbs route thrown high and inaccurate. The biggest problem is that McNabb does not talk with the OL while he is on the sideline. He does not talk with the WRs and he hardly talks to the offensive coaching staff. He does not look at coverages or seek advice. It appears as if he has some false sense of entitlement.

The RB play was not great. Torrain did not look good before getting hurt and KW simply is not a talented back.

The TE/WR play was average. Not much time to get open and a lot of inaccurate balls thrown their way. Hard to judge much out of the performance.

The better team won this game. The Lions have less holes and have caught a lot of bad breaks this season.

Some players did play well:

ey is extremely banged up but still doing a solid job blocking and made a few plays in the passing game.

Armstrong got seperation downfield and had some big plays.

Haynesworth had some dominant plays but definitely started to get tired.

Fletcher has never played a bad game. Mentally and physically consistent and was solid again.

Landry is one of the best defensive players in the NFL right now. Broke up some passes and made a lot of great open field tackles.

Brandon Banks did a terrific job returning kicks. We are elite right now on special teams. Great blocking and usually solid in coverage.

Skinsfan55 wrote:Donnie Mac was all class after the game, but it's pretty obvious that pulling him was a HUGE mistake by Shanny and proves that he's not yet trusted to run the offense. He's played poorly in Washington, but the hope was he'd come around and his talent would shine through, this puts contract negotiations in jeopardy.

McNabb isn't going to be a Redskin next year. It's pretty clear that Shanahan is not happy with what he's getting from McNabb. I have no idea where we are going to get another qb, but it wont be McNabb behind center next year.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:Donnie Mac was all class after the game, but it's pretty obvious that pulling him was a HUGE mistake by Shanny and proves that he's not yet trusted to run the offense. He's played poorly in Washington, but the hope was he'd come around and his talent would shine through, this puts contract negotiations in jeopardy.

McNabb isn't going to be a Redskin next year. It's pretty clear that Shanahan is not happy with what he's getting from McNabb. I have no idea where we are going to get another qb, but it wont be McNabb behind center next year.

In all honesty, I hope that is not the case. I would like us to resign him for another year so that we can draft a couple OL (a tackle and guard) -- unless there is another solid FA QB option out there at the end of the year; which I don't think is the case.

And I think it would be an understatement to say that Grossman isn't the man for the job.

Skinsfan55 wrote:Donnie Mac was all class after the game, but it's pretty obvious that pulling him was a HUGE mistake by Shanny and proves that he's not yet trusted to run the offense. He's played poorly in Washington, but the hope was he'd come around and his talent would shine through, this puts contract negotiations in jeopardy.

I feel the opposite. Shanny has to hold players accountable for their poor play. If he let's McNabb get away with throwing a ball into triple coverage like that, but benches other players for their poor play, what message does that send?

Now, if you are upset about the EXCUSE that he gave after the game, consider that he wasn't going to throw his player under the bus. He never has to any player...even Haynesworth. What's he supposed to say? "I pulled him because he just lost us the game." Players see this and know that they are being held accountable...even Mcnabb. But Shanny was protecting his player from the media and put the heat on his coaching decisions. If he would have come out and said, Donovan played poorly, and he just didn't get it done, the media (and you) would have been concentrating on the interception for the loss. Instead your talking about his future starting status and future here...both of which will be put to bed next game when he starts and next year when he re-signs. The guy is here for the rest of his career. I would be shocked if he wasn't.

The excuse he was pulled was that McNabb played poorly and didn't manage the final parts of the game and he needs to be held accountable for that. Once Donovan reviews the game film, he'll see how piss poor of a decision that was.

Ridiculous... true Mcnugget threw an INT but why did we have to throw the ball at all instead of running it and killing some time off the clock? Taking him out of the game when we needed a "comeback" drive to put in Grossman from our 20something yard line (I think) was just the most boneheaded thing in the world. Like, I can totally understand benching someone to make a point but at that particular moment I think SHANAZORN.. or ZORNAHAN (as heard on 106.7 this morning) in favor of Rexy was just... heck, I guess I can't even say it in this section (need smack for that).

.. still though folks, 4-4 heading into a bye week is ok because we can rest players and come back with a serious attitude problem to take it out on our opponents. Don't get all panicky on me yet my friends!

New prediction from my previous 13-3 now goes to 12-4.. I STILL BELIEVE!

markshark84 wrote:In all honesty, I hope that is not the case. I would like us to resign him for another year so that we can draft a couple OL (a tackle and guard) -- unless there is another solid FA QB option out there at the end of the year; which I don't think is the case.

I like your thinking here Mark but getting pulled like that tells Mcnugget that he's not trusted IMO. It's early still because we have 8 games left but Mcnugget may just say "to heck with the Zornahans, I'm gone". Dude will definitely have huge offers from the Vikes and Cards and I don't think he'll turn down a chance to throw to Fitz or Randy just to stay here with (what seems like) a coach that doesn't trust him. IMO anyways but I hope I'm wrong.

I have watch this season with a healthy dose of reserve, knowing we are comming off a 4-12 season and I did not/do not expect this team to make a playoff run. That being said the ONLY REASON this team is 4-4 at the half way point is because DMac is the QB. This of it this way if J. Campbell was here we'd be 1-7 or 2-6 at best. I fell the same about Rex. If Shanahan want to blame someone there are 5 guys who cannot block anyone. I mean ANYONE. What a pathetic O-line we have and Shanny is not happy that DMac cannot make MAGIC happen. I fully support McNabb. He is not the root of this offensive problems. We have seen this for two years now. NO BLOCKING = NO OFFENSE.

chiefhog44 wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:Donnie Mac was all class after the game, but it's pretty obvious that pulling him was a HUGE mistake by Shanny and proves that he's not yet trusted to run the offense. He's played poorly in Washington, but the hope was he'd come around and his talent would shine through, this puts contract negotiations in jeopardy.

I feel the opposite. Shanny has to hold players accountable for their poor play. If he let's McNabb get away with throwing a ball into triple coverage like that, but benches other players for their poor play, what message does that send?

Now, if you are upset about the EXCUSE that he gave after the game, consider that he wasn't going to throw his player under the bus. He never has to any player...even Haynesworth. What's he supposed to say? "I pulled him because he just lost us the game." Players see this and know that they are being held accountable...even Mcnabb. But Shanny was protecting his player from the media and put the heat on his coaching decisions. If he would have come out and said, Donovan played poorly, and he just didn't get it done, the media (and you) would have been concentrating on the interception for the loss. Instead your talking about his future starting status and future here...both of which will be put to bed next game when he starts and next year when he re-signs. The guy is here for the rest of his career. I would be shocked if he wasn't.

The excuse he was pulled was that McNabb played poorly and didn't manage the final parts of the game and he needs to be held accountable for that. Once Donovan reviews the game film, he'll see how piss poor of a decision that was.

His excuse was that Grossman, who's not played a snap in regular season, gave the skins a better chance to win, down by 6 with no time outs and less than 2 mins in the game. And you buy that load of crap?!?!?!!? Really??!?!?!?! Ice cold and hasn't played in 2 months, but he gives a better chance, cold off the bench, to win.

This is the stupidest comment I've seen, and I've seen more than a few. Anyone who buys Mike Shanahan's load of crap should have a mental eval to make sure they can tell the difference between fantasy and reality, b/c it's obvious there's a non distinct and blurry line in your reality

langleyparkjoe wrote:

markshark84 wrote:In all honesty, I hope that is not the case. I would like us to resign him for another year so that we can draft a couple OL (a tackle and guard) -- unless there is another solid FA QB option out there at the end of the year; which I don't think is the case.

I like your thinking here Mark but getting pulled like that tells Mcnugget that he's not trusted IMO. It's early still because we have 8 games left but Mcnugget may just say "to heck with the Zornahans, I'm gone". Dude will definitely have huge offers from the Vikes and Cards and I don't think he'll turn down a chance to throw to Fitz or Randy just to stay here with (what seems like) a coach that doesn't trust him. IMO anyways but I hope I'm wrong.

With the way that McNabb has played this year he'll be lucky to get any offers in the offseason, let alone huge offers from teams. He looks done.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

langleyparkjoe wrote:

markshark84 wrote:In all honesty, I hope that is not the case. I would like us to resign him for another year so that we can draft a couple OL (a tackle and guard) -- unless there is another solid FA QB option out there at the end of the year; which I don't think is the case.

I like your thinking here Mark but getting pulled like that tells Mcnugget that he's not trusted IMO. It's early still because we have 8 games left but Mcnugget may just say "to heck with the Zornahans, I'm gone". Dude will definitely have huge offers from the Vikes and Cards and I don't think he'll turn down a chance to throw to Fitz or Randy just to stay here with (what seems like) a coach that doesn't trust him. IMO anyways but I hope I'm wrong.

With the way that McNabb has played this year he'll be lucky to get any offers in the offseason, let alone huge offers from teams. He looks done.

I'm just not sure about that. I tend to agree with LPJ here. DMc can still play -- he has shown that this year. He is much better than what either the ARZ and MINN (assuming Favre retires) AND he would be a perfect fit for ARZ in that he can mentor their 2 young QBs.

For us, however, we may get screwed. We will most likely end the season at 7-9 or 8-8, having a mid-round draft pick; one that isn't high enough to get a quality QB or OL --- and this is discounting the fact that we need multiple high talent OL picks. It just doesn't look good either way.

SkinsHead56 wrote:I have watch this season with a healthy dose of reserve, knowing we are comming off a 4-12 season and I did not/do not expect this team to make a playoff run. That being said the ONLY REASON this team is 4-4 at the half way point is because DMac is the QB. This of it this way if J. Campbell was here we'd be 1-7 or 2-6 at best. I fell the same about Rex. If Shanahan want to blame someone there are 5 guys who cannot block anyone. I mean ANYONE. What a pathetic O-line we have and Shanny is not happy that DMac cannot make MAGIC happen. I fully support McNabb. He is not the root of this offensive problems. We have seen this for two years now. NO BLOCKING = NO OFFENSE.

You cannot say, "this is the way it is" and then give an opinion. The only reason the team has a 4-4 record is because of DMac? You do realize Campbell was a higher rated passer last year behind a WORSE O-line. Also, if you are judging the turn-around off of the TEAM's W/L record, what does that make Campbell? The Raiders are 4-2 with him starting.

I was not in favor of getting rid of Campbell for McNabb. He was behind the worst OL in football, with a below average receiving core and still put up average numbers. This offense was going to be the best fit he ever had. If other options were available, then yes but not for a QB that put up similar numbers the past season with a much better supporting cast. The move happened and I did not hold a grudge. I want McNabb to perform well, but he simply is not doing that right now.

DMc can still play -- he has shown that this year.

I strongly disagree with this.

Shabutie wrote:

SkinsHead56 wrote:I have watch this season with a healthy dose of reserve, knowing we are comming off a 4-12 season and I did not/do not expect this team to make a playoff run. That being said the ONLY REASON this team is 4-4 at the half way point is because DMac is the QB. This of it this way if J. Campbell was here we'd be 1-7 or 2-6 at best. I fell the same about Rex. If Shanahan want to blame someone there are 5 guys who cannot block anyone. I mean ANYONE. What a pathetic O-line we have and Shanny is not happy that DMac cannot make MAGIC happen. I fully support McNabb. He is not the root of this offensive problems. We have seen this for two years now. NO BLOCKING = NO OFFENSE.

You cannot say, "this is the way it is" and then give an opinion. The only reason the team has a 4-4 record is because of DMac? You do realize Campbell was a higher rated passer last year behind a WORSE O-line. Also, if you are judging the turn-around off of the TEAM's W/L record, what does that make Campbell? The Raiders are 4-2 with him starting.

I was not in favor of getting rid of Campbell for McNabb. He was behind the worst OL in football, with a below average receiving core and still put up average numbers. This offense was going to be the best fit he ever had. If other options were available, then yes but not for a QB that put up similar numbers the past season with a much better supporting cast. The move happened and I did not hold a grudge. I want McNabb to perform well, but he simply is not doing that right now.

No, I did not realize that JC was a higher rated passer, becasue the only stat that matters to me is wins. DMac has 4 wins in 8 games, JC had 4 wins in 16 games by my math that makes Dmac twice the QB JC was last year. I am no fantasy football nerd just a realist and the fact is that NO QB is going to play well week in week out behind this sorry excuse for an O-line. Proving my point is that the Raiders have a better O-line than we do particularly at the guard & center positions.

I am no "fantasy football nerd" either. Somone has to bring objective facts to the argument. People that say, "___ had this many wins compared to ____." without taking into account any surrounding facts is being naive. You don't think the Redskins leading the NFL in turnovers forced, or having one of the best all-around special teams units in the league make any difference from last year? How about the improved coaching and better receiving core?