The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

VetSkinsFan wrote:Kaz, my friend, we'll have to agree to disagree then. From my own personal point of view, family (brother, mother, father, ect) comes first every time. All the time. Even in crunch time, if my coworker (and I tend to get pretty close to my section due to my personality) needs time, the he gets it without question. I'll work late, come in early, take work home; it doesn't matter, he's got my support. And I've had coworkers do it for me.

The difference in my PoV and my perception of your PoV is yours is a "how does this affect me" thing. How can he leave me and the team at this important time?

I'm not trying to argue with you here as well as you're clearly trying not to. To clarify the difference in perspective, and there's nothing wrong with having a different perspective, it'd be a dull world if we all thought the same way. But to adjust where you said my view is, "How can he leave me and the team at this important time?" and I'd alter it to say my view is "I could not leave [my] team at this important time." At least not for a week. My organization is very loyal to me, the business and each other. It's not about the money, it's our life. We have an objective and we all play important roles in it. You don't just put that on hold and walk away until you're "ready." We all sacrifice a lot for success.

Also, keep in mind too I'm saying I'd have a lot different attitude if he hadn't been about this like he is about everything else. He not only doesn't do what he doesn't have to, he even paid to not do what he was required to because the fine for not doing it was pocket change to him. And that is a big, big part of my issue with him.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:Kaz, my friend, we'll have to agree to disagree then. From my own personal point of view, family (brother, mother, father, ect) comes first every time. All the time. Even in crunch time, if my coworker (and I tend to get pretty close to my section due to my personality) needs time, the he gets it without question. I'll work late, come in early, take work home; it doesn't matter, he's got my support. And I've had coworkers do it for me.

The difference in my PoV and my perception of your PoV is yours is a "how does this affect me" thing. How can he leave me and the team at this important time?

I'm not trying to argue with you here as well as you're clearly trying not to. To clarify the difference in perspective, and there's nothing wrong with having a different perspective, it'd be a dull world if we all thought the same way. But to adjust where you said my view is, "How can he leave me and the team at this important time?" and I'd alter it to say my view is "I could not leave [my] team at this important time." At least not for a week. My organization is very loyal to me, the business and each other. It's not about the money, it's our life. We have an objective and we all play important roles in it. You don't just put that on hold and walk away until you're "ready." We all sacrifice a lot for success.

Also, keep in mind too I'm saying I'd have a lot different attitude if he hadn't been about this like he is about everything else. He not only doesn't do what he doesn't have to, he even paid to not do what he was required to because the fine for not doing it was pocket change to him. And that is a big, big part of my issue with him.

I get it. I simply don't agree with it, but I get it and I have one final thought and I'll leave it alone unless there's something new to discuss.

What if this is the moment where Al has enlightenment? Where he thinks, "no matter what happened in the past, they got my back now. Maybe I need to change some things in me." I'm hoping maybe this is that moment.

VetSkinsFan wrote:I get it. I simply don't agree with it, but I get it and I have one final thought and I'll leave it alone unless there's something new to discuss.

What if this is the moment where Al has enlightenment? Where he thinks, "no matter what happened in the past, they got my back now. Maybe I need to change some things in me." I'm hoping maybe this is that moment.

If he has that epiphany and it's backed up by his actions, I'll change sides on him very quickly. Life is a learning process, people should be encouraged to grow and not recognizing change is the best way to stand in the way of it, and vice versa.

man oh man would that be great - I'll give credit where credit is due also, happily

I'll revisit this then - I think I'll still think he's not here next season, no matter what goes down in these next 10 weeks - BUT I'll reserve judgement until then

VetSkinsFan wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Californiaskin wrote:yah i dont think its bad that al made the choice he made....just not the one i would make.

I think it sheds light on the larger issue of al always putting himself above the team and why he is in the doghouse always

I'm not understanding this comment. Are you saying that you would have foregone the services (one was sat, one was tues) and played in the GB game? Maybe it's too early this morning...

I know the question wasn't to me, but having the similar view my own opinion is I would like in some way to show the Skins that we are a priority to him. I did not expect it to necessarily be this particular case, only that it was another opportunity to have done so that didn't happen just like all the other opportunities. Even coming to the game and being on the sidelines and flying home and not playing would have been a chance to show we matter to him. It can be something else too, I just want something from him. I know I'm not going to get it.

I'm sorry Kazoo, family comes first in my mind. There's no freakin way that big Al should have even been present at the GB game. No freakin way.

And I still wait for clarification from CaliforniaSkin.

ya as said.....i would have played and dedicated the game to my brother (half in this case)......players do this all the time in sports.......its a choice they can make in these situations...........as said im sorry his brother died and i understand his decision to not play and i understand how some here would make the same choice..........my point is that i think these kind of me first choices are the reason that Albert is always in Shannies doghouse.......i posted the poll to see how many others felt the same as me as far as making the choice to play and dedicate the game and season for that matter to his half brother as players do in the NFL and other sports.........i think one of the reasons al sat for indy was also cuz i think shanahan feels the same as i to some degree

Californiaskin wrote:i think one of the reasons al sat for indy was also cuz i think shanahan feels the same as i to some degree

I think Shannahan was just being straight when he said Fatso wasn't in shape to play. He's made endless decisions that lead to being in marginal shape going into being out a week. Had he been in mid season NFL shape he would have been able to play at least a portion of the game, he wasn't. Pathetic But it is what Lard butt is. Lazy and selfish.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Californiaskin wrote:i think one of the reasons al sat for indy was also cuz i think shanahan feels the same as i to some degree

I think Shannahan was just being straight when he said Fatso wasn't in shape to play. He's made endless decisions that lead to being in marginal shape going into being out a week. Had he been in mid season NFL shape he would have been able to play at least a portion of the game, he wasn't. Pathetic But it is what Lard butt is. Lazy and selfish.

Please! I don't think conditioning had anything to do with the decision to sit him for Indy. It had to do with him missing practice all week, and not being prepared (within the gameplan), not that he wasn't ready physically.

Deadskins wrote:Please! I don't think conditioning had anything to do with the decision to sit him for Indy. It had to do with him missing practice all week, and not being prepared (within the gameplan), not that he wasn't ready physically.

That's what Shanny said, It wasn't about him not being physically ready to play but it was more about his state of mind after returning from burying his youngest brother. The week he missed was also the week they were preparing to play Peyton Manning. Manning is the master of mind games and everyone needed to have their head in the game. Hayneworth said he was ready to play, the coach felt differently.

1niksder wrote:

Deadskins wrote:Please! I don't think conditioning had anything to do with the decision to sit him for Indy. It had to do with him missing practice all week, and not being prepared (within the gameplan), not that he wasn't ready physically.

That's what Shanny said, It wasn't about him not being physically ready to play but it was more about his state of mind after returning from burying his youngest brother. The week he missed was also the week they were preparing to play Peyton Manning. Manning is the master of mind games and everyone needed to have their head in the game. Hayneworth said he was ready to play, the coach felt differently.

He's a Defensive Lineman, it's not that complicated to play on running downs. You really think his lack of preparation wasn't an issue? Had he been in game 6 NFL form physically and mentally going into this that Shannahan wouldn't have had him active and at least in a limited role? I find that very hard to believe.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:I'm sorry Kazoo, family comes first in my mind. There's no freakin way that big Al should have even been present at the GB game. No freakin way.

And I still wait for clarification from CaliforniaSkin.

I agree with your view on family. But I think teammates are pretty important too. I consider everyone who works for my design and print company to be my teammate and many of them as close to family you can get without being blood or marriage related. I can't imagine just leaving them for a week at any critical time because family is "first." I realize Al and I are completely different animals, I'm pointing that out and not specifically criticizing him for this particular decision. He's as committed to the Skins as a cashier is to McDonalds. It's not that he's like that this time, it's that he's like that every time.

Let's rehash the timeline. His brother died on a Thursday. He has services on Saturday and Tuesday. He returned to practice thursday. So what you're suggesting is that he should have flown out saturday nite immediately leaving his family (his immediately family, his mother I am speculating) to go be with his teammates in a game some speculate he should PLAY in. Only to fly back out to attend another service in NC 2 days later. And then to fly back to the DC area to get back to football.

I seriously doubt that any one of his teammates would side with you here. I haven't lost a sibling, but I have lost a mother while I was overseas and came home for her funeral. I did have my family (my platoon/company) and not one of them suggested, "hey, man, take the least amount of time possible, we need you here." To even suggest that anyone be held accountable for that is insane. The more I think about it, the stupider it sounds. This has got to be one of the most moronic points of view I've read here....

I agree with Vet. This is a serious no-brainer to me with respect to the Green Bay game.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

1niksder wrote:

Deadskins wrote:Please! I don't think conditioning had anything to do with the decision to sit him for Indy. It had to do with him missing practice all week, and not being prepared (within the gameplan), not that he wasn't ready physically.

That's what Shanny said, It wasn't about him not being physically ready to play but it was more about his state of mind after returning from burying his youngest brother. The week he missed was also the week they were preparing to play Peyton Manning. Manning is the master of mind games and everyone needed to have their head in the game. Hayneworth said he was ready to play, the coach felt differently.

He's a Defensive Lineman, it's not that complicated to play on running downs. You really think his lack of preparation wasn't an issue? Had he been in game 6 NFL form physically and mentally going into this that Shannahan wouldn't have had him active and at least in a limited role? I find that very hard to believe.

No, what I said was that WAS the reason. You said it was his lack of conditioning. That is what I strenuously disagreed with.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

1niksder wrote:

Deadskins wrote:Please! I don't think conditioning had anything to do with the decision to sit him for Indy. It had to do with him missing practice all week, and not being prepared (within the gameplan), not that he wasn't ready physically.

That's what Shanny said, It wasn't about him not being physically ready to play but it was more about his state of mind after returning from burying his youngest brother. The week he missed was also the week they were preparing to play Peyton Manning. Manning is the master of mind games and everyone needed to have their head in the game. Hayneworth said he was ready to play, the coach felt differently.

He's a Defensive Lineman, it's not that complicated to play on running downs. You really think his lack of preparation wasn't an issue? Had he been in game 6 NFL form physically and mentally going into this that Shannahan wouldn't have had him active and at least in a limited role? I find that very hard to believe.

You are going to believe what you want... the scheme was setup differently do to how Manning plays the game, and Shanny said it wasn't about AH being physically prepared to play. He said sometimes you have to do what's right for the player rather than what's best for the team. It was his youngest brother that died because he was driving too fast.

Ever wonder where he got the idea to be driving so fast? Check out AH's DMV record, or Big Al's comments about driving fast. Do you think maybe he felt guilty about some of his comments about speeding after his brother's death by speed.

Do you find it hard to believe that it doesn't go away in a week.

1niksder wrote:You are going to believe what you want... the scheme was setup differently do to how Manning plays the game, and Shanny said it wasn't about AH being physically prepared to play. He said sometimes you have to do what's right for the player rather than what's best for the team. It was his youngest brother that died because he was driving too fast.

Ever wonder where he got the idea to be driving so fast? Check out AH's DMV record, or Big Al's comments about driving fast. Do you think maybe he felt guilty about some of his comments about speeding after his brother's death by speed.

Do you find it hard to believe that it doesn't go away in a week.

I'm not sure I understand the relevance of your last question. Does it have to "go away" for him to be ready to play? I would imagine it's not going to go away for a long time, but I don't think it going away is required for him to play. I understand your points on his focus on his family, but I don't understand his lack of focus on his team and inability to play for two weeks if they mattered to him too. If I only think about him I could see your point. But when I think of all the people who rely on me I can't imaging going that long without being there for them. Saying he's available to play isn't that, being ready to play is.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

1niksder wrote:You are going to believe what you want... the scheme was setup differently do to how Manning plays the game, and Shanny said it wasn't about AH being physically prepared to play. He said sometimes you have to do what's right for the player rather than what's best for the team. It was his youngest brother that died because he was driving too fast.

Ever wonder where he got the idea to be driving so fast? Check out AH's DMV record, or Big Al's comments about driving fast. Do you think maybe he felt guilty about some of his comments about speeding after his brother's death by speed.

Do you find it hard to believe that it doesn't go away in a week.

I'm not sure I understand the relevance of your last question. Does it have to "go away" for him to be ready to play? I would imagine it's not going to go away for a long time, but I don't think it going away is required for him to play. I understand your points on his focus on his family, but I don't understand his lack of focus on his team and inability to play for two weeks if they mattered to him too. If I only think about him I could see your point. But when I think of all the people who rely on me I can't imaging going that long without being there for them. Saying he's available to play isn't that, being ready to play is.

It would be the focus of his thought process right after getting back and football should be the focus even if it wasn't Manning. Over time with the players in the locker room football becomes the focus again. It's not that he was gone for a week, he had been back less than one. And he was (may though I hope not still be) a true advocate of fast driving on the roads and waters.

Shanahan DID also say in one of his interviews physically AND mentally not ready to play. He specifically commented on his not training for 6 days and his conditioning may not be there.

Two other points:

1. big Al played Manning 2x/yr for 7 years. He knows Manning probably better than anyone else on that team. I believe that could have been used as an asset.

2. That Amoeba defense is new and in Haslett/Shanahan's defense, big Al may not have been familiar with that monumental failure of a defensive scheme.