The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

brad7686 wrote:Ha, can I retract that? Honestly though, if you look at film of Okung and Williams from college there is no comparison. But I like what I see from him so far and he is certainly a beast physically.

I think another issue is that I was so used to being right when I trashed Vinny's picks that I thought it would carry over into the Shanahan era. But maybe he knows something I don't.

No sweat; he hasn't played 1 down of a regular season NFL game, so it's also way premature to declare him an unmitigated success.

And Shanahan does have a good track record drafting tackles. I was willing to give him more of a benefit of the doubt on this one, than I ever was for Cerrato.

Bob 0119 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

Bob 0119 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

Bob 0119 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:Whens the last time our team has scored 40 points?

I know its only preseason but I like what I see so far.

The last time they scored that many in a preseason game was 1988 vs. The Raiders

Nope, it was Spurrier's first preseason game in Osaka, Japan vs. the 49ers.

I don't remember the score, and after a quick shot on Google it says it was 38-7....what did you have?

Sure, it's a larger margin of victory, but I was going based on points scored by the Redskins.

I apologize, Bob, I thought we hung 40+ on them. I must have just been associating the 49ers' team name with the score. It sucks getting old.

lol, no sweat, I thought I'd missed something.

Apparently we did score 40 points in Spurrier's 4th preseason game when we beat Tampa Bay 40-10 though, so we were both wrong.

Deadskins wrote:

brad7686 wrote:Also, for the record, Williams hasn't played in an NFL game and we don't know how good Okung is yet either. It doesn't matter how good Williams is, if Okung is better than we blew the pick. That said I would rather be wrong and have Williams be the better of the two.

As long as Williams is better for this system, then he is the better pick. Besides, the standard was "totally blew it," so unless Okung is grossly better, that still doesn't measure up.

You are mincing words, but who cares.

The Hogster wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

brad7686 wrote:Also, for the record, Williams hasn't played in an NFL game and we don't know how good Okung is yet either. It doesn't matter how good Williams is, if Okung is better than we blew the pick. That said I would rather be wrong and have Williams be the better of the two.

As long as Williams is better for this system, then he is the better pick. Besides, the standard was "totally blew it," so unless Okung is grossly better, that still doesn't measure up.

You are mincing words, but who cares.

No, I was just reading the post as you wrote it. And apparently, you care.

The Hogster wrote:Where are all of the draft gurus who whined and bitch-d about how we totally "blew it" on the Trent Williams pick?

Where indeed?

Deadskins wrote:

Bob 0119 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

Bob 0119 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

Bob 0119 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:Whens the last time our team has scored 40 points?

I know its only preseason but I like what I see so far.

The last time they scored that many in a preseason game was 1988 vs. The Raiders

Nope, it was Spurrier's first preseason game in Osaka, Japan vs. the 49ers.

I don't remember the score, and after a quick shot on Google it says it was 38-7....what did you have?

Sure, it's a larger margin of victory, but I was going based on points scored by the Redskins.

I apologize, Bob, I thought we hung 40+ on them. I must have just been associating the 49ers' team name with the score. It sucks getting old.

lol, no sweat, I thought I'd missed something.

Apparently we did score 40 points in Spurrier's 4th preseason game when we beat Tampa Bay 40-10 though, so we were both wrong.

Wouldn't be the first time for me. lol

I was going off the highly publicized stat based on 42 points. I was having difficulty finding preseason scores older than the past three years.

Nice work coming up with that.

Of course, if that was the last time we scored 40 points in preseason, than my other stat (52 points against the 49ers in '05) still holds up as the last time the team scored 40 points in any one game.

yupchagee wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:the ONLY thing that was really a big plus for me was the way the whole group played with an attitude - the score really means nothing

we could have lost and I could care less - a group of players playing like that are not losing many meaningful games
last night's game had a lot of players on both sides that are not playing in the NFL this season - BUT, a group of players in B&G, played with the type of attitude that means a lot to our franchise
great start for everybody

What stood out to me is that they seemed to play as a TEAM.

I agree with both you and frank - despite the point that Vet is making about "a win is a win" - this is a group of players that seem to be believing in themselves and what the coaches expect of them - 'winning' to these guys is executing properly and together - sorry Vet, at this stage, I'd rather take the 'team thing' than the "win thing" - but then, I think a better 'team' wins more games - that's just me - H A I L



great to see these guys getting it done together and as a team again - it's early BUT this is all good guys

Deadskins wrote:

The Hogster wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

brad7686 wrote:Also, for the record, Williams hasn't played in an NFL game and we don't know how good Okung is yet either. It doesn't matter how good Williams is, if Okung is better than we blew the pick. That said I would rather be wrong and have Williams be the better of the two.

As long as Williams is better for this system, then he is the better pick. Besides, the standard was "totally blew it," so unless Okung is grossly better, that still doesn't measure up.

You are mincing words, but who cares.

No, I was just reading the post as you wrote it. And apparently, you care.

The Hogster wrote:Where are all of the draft gurus who whined and bitch-d about how we totally "blew it" on the Trent Williams pick?

Where indeed?

Ok, so drafting a guy who many thought was (i) lazy, (ii) weak and (iii) not even worth a first round pick does not equal 'blowing it'. Keep up the good work.

Besides, those threads were just examples, there was more discussion about Williams being the wrong pick and nothing more than a right tackle.

To look at this slightly differently - IF Cerrato & Snyder were in charge here they almost certainly would have taken Okung OR given up whatever it took to get Bradford

This FO are looking to add players that make the other players around them better AND NOT "let's just add the flashiest player we can find" - as we have here for so long.
Now, IMO, we are going to see players like Williams be brought in here over a player like Okung that might also be a very good player but he did not 'fit' here as well

Okung might be very good but Williams (according to both Allen and Shanahan) helps this franchise better

I would not look at that choice as 'blowing the pick' unless Williams cannot help the team AND Okung is an "all world" LT - we shall see




I think the choice between the 2 looks pretty good right now

SkinsJock wrote:

yupchagee wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:the ONLY thing that was really a big plus for me was the way the whole group played with an attitude - the score really means nothing

we could have lost and I could care less - a group of players playing like that are not losing many meaningful games
last night's game had a lot of players on both sides that are not playing in the NFL this season - BUT, a group of players in B&G, played with the type of attitude that means a lot to our franchise
great start for everybody

What stood out to me is that they seemed to play as a TEAM.

I agree with both you and frank - despite the point that Vet is making about "a win is a win" - this is a group of players that seem to be believing in themselves and what the coaches expect of them - 'winning' to these guys is executing properly and together - sorry Vet, at this stage, I'd rather take the 'team thing' than the "win thing" - but then, I think a better 'team' wins more games - that's just me - H A I L



great to see these guys getting it done together and as a team again - it's early BUT this is all good guys

So as long as they are consistant in year 1 of a complete overhaul of mangement, results don't matter? You're saying that losing all 4 pre-season games will have absolutely no ill affect on confidence vice winning 3-4 dominantly will have positive affect on confidence for us going in to the regular season? Winning instills confidence, and that win over the Bills shows the guys that they CAN have success in this system. And that helps instill the 'team' thing as well.

you seem to have a way of completely misinterpreting my posts

I think that winning every game is the reason players and coaches are involved - please show me where I said anything different

at this stage of the season and following what we have seen here recently I just feel it is important to see the players and coaches having success at what they are doing
the score is not as important as the execution BUT "winning" is always a good thing

AT THIS STAGE - 'success' to me is to see progress in the way the players play, the way the plays are called by the coaches and the attitude on the sideline

I'm very glad that we won but we are going to be a lot better if we have a consistently competitive product on the field each week than if we have a team that is 'lucky' to win games each week like your intimating

we have had a number of years where our record before the season was great AND we have been the "off-season trophy" winner each year - how's that helped this franchise lately?





you know, I kind of like this game of putting a different spin on posts

we just 'won' the first game - how can we lose all 4

SkinsJock wrote:we just 'won' the first game - how can we lose all 4

It was a hypothetical.

VetSkinsFan wrote:I'm sorry, there is a difference in winning and losing, even in pre-season. Winning this year in pre-season will give the guys confidence in the scheme and in themselves. If they get blown out all 4 games, you think they're going to buy in as much as if they win 3-4 like they did with Buffalo?

I agree with your sentiment that they looked good as a team, but I can't get on board with not caring if they win or lose....winning ALWAYS breeds confidence.

Good point. Winng builds confidence which builds into an attitude - especially adding to the score with 2nd, 3rd & 4th string players - even if its against opponent's 2nd, 3rd & 4th string players.

We haven't seen the winning attitude around Redskins Park in a long time. Lets hope the Skins can keep up the momentum against B'more.

SkinsJock wrote:To look at this slightly differently - IF Cerrato & Snyder were in charge here they almost certainly would have taken Okung OR given up whatever it took to get Bradford

This FO are looking to add players that make the other players around them better AND NOT "let's just add the flashiest player we can find" - as we have here for so long.
Now, IMO, we are going to see players like Williams be brought in here over a player like Okung that might also be a very good player but he did not 'fit' here as well

Okung might be very good but Williams (according to both Allen and Shanahan) helps this franchise better

I would not look at that choice as 'blowing the pick' unless Williams cannot help the team AND Okung is an "all world" LT - we shall see




I think the choice between the 2 looks pretty good right now

Okung had no reputation as being a flashy player, Williams did. Okung was supposed to be a "solid" or "finished" player with little upside. We went for flash and potential. We gambled.

I see it as Bruce & Mike saw a player that gave them a better 'fit' for what they wanted to do here and IMO Okung was the easy choice but the wrong choice

IMO the old FO would have taken the easy choice and the new FO made the better choice for the long term

we shall see - Okung sounds like he thinks he's a better player and he was a little difficult in signing

SkinsJock wrote:I see it as Bruce & Mike saw a player that gave them a better 'fit' for what they wanted to do here and IMO Okung was the easy choice but the wrong choice

IMO the old FO would have taken the easy choice and the new FO made the better choice for the long term

Maybe Okung would have been a better choice for Zorn's system.

Deadskins wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I see it as Bruce & Mike saw a player that gave them a better 'fit' for what they wanted to do here and IMO Okung was the easy choice but the wrong choice

IMO the old FO would have taken the easy choice and the new FO made the better choice for the long term

Maybe Okung would have been a better choice for Zorn's system.

Thank goodness we don't have to worry about that "system" anymore DS..

I think that individual performances are largely irrelevant during the preseason. Instead, what I took away from the game was the difference in the overall attitude and look of the team. Unlike the teams we've seen in recent years, ours guys looked well coached and organized. There didn't seem to be issues getting the plays in and we weren't running the clock down to 1 or 2 seconds because the offense didn't know what the hell it was doing. We have some issues on the roster that will take some time to fix, but Shanahan's impact on the team is already very clear in my opinion. The difference between a Shananahan coached team and a Zorn (and even Gibbs) coached team is blatantly obvious. The future looks bright!

CanesSkins26 wrote:The future looks bright!

So bright, I gotta wear shades.

Deadskins wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I see it as Bruce & Mike saw a player that gave them a better 'fit' for what they wanted to do here and IMO Okung was the easy choice but the wrong choice

IMO the old FO would have taken the easy choice and the new FO made the better choice for the long term

Maybe Okung would have been a better choice for Zorn's system.

System Zorn had a system That's news to me

yupchagee wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I see it as Bruce & Mike saw a player that gave them a better 'fit' for what they wanted to do here and IMO Okung was the easy choice but the wrong choice

IMO the old FO would have taken the easy choice and the new FO made the better choice for the long term

Maybe Okung would have been a better choice for Zorn's system.

System Zorn had a system That's news to me

Yeah, don't you remember? He "call[ed] the plays to work."

what a difference we are seeing

I know it'sw only the first game under these guys but like Canes alluded to - this is a night & day thing with the players, the coaches and the 'look' of everyone on the sidelines

this is a very exciting time and I'm trying to keep my feelings in check


just cannot say how refreshing it is to see the difference when NFL guys are managing things - the players know how to behave and look completely different in the way they are behaving - even just running on and off the field


I'm still mad about how many years Snyder mis-managed things here and bringing in that bingo caller to call plays here


but what we are seeing and hearing - things could be VERY different here and in a very short time

SkinsJock wrote:I'm still mad about how many years Snyder mis-managed things here and bringing in that bingo caller to call plays here

To be fair, bringing in the bingo caller actually worked (sort of). Under Zorn, we were scoring 13.2 points a game; under Sherm Lewis, we averaged 18.7 points a game.

Deadskins wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I see it as Bruce & Mike saw a player that gave them a better 'fit' for what they wanted to do here and IMO Okung was the easy choice but the wrong choice

IMO the old FO would have taken the easy choice and the new FO made the better choice for the long term

Maybe Okung would have been a better choice for Zorn's system.

Zorn had a system? Who knew?

even though that was the worst team in the league, without their two best running backs, and without both starting tackles and a starting LB, it was nice to see a united team out there. Were not winning the super bowl after one preseason game though so temper the expectations