The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Chris Luva Luva wrote:This off-season.... I have a new found respect for players and their ability to put up with "fans". Some of the things said and the reasoning behind the statements are just insane.

You have a respect for players putting up with customers? You realize the only reason for the NFL is the entertainment of fans and the only reason for message boards is positing opinions? Or do you? Did you think we were going to work together to solve world hunger?

Chris Luva Luva wrote:This off-season.... I have a new found respect for players and their ability to put up with "fans". Some of the things said and the reasoning behind the statements are just insane.

Can't agree with you more. Some of our fans seemed incapable of appreciation for and loyalty to our most productive players. ey, Haynesworth, Campbell, Carter and Rocky have all been vehemently underestimated and/or vilified.

For the information of all, Campbell and ey have been our top two offensive players for the last couple of years and Fletcher, Haynesworth, Orakpo, Carter and Rocky were the primary reasons we had a good defense last year. Of all of the above, only Orakpo and Flecher have been given due credit. Still, I have seen posts about trading Fletcher for late round picks, so maybe I should take back part of my last statement.

crazyhorse1 wrote:Can't agree with you more. Some of our fans seemed incapable of appreciation for and loyalty to our most productive players. ey, Haynesworth, Campbell, Carter and Rocky have all been vehemently underestimated and/or vilified.

For the information of all, Campbell and ey have been our top two offensive players for the last couple of years and Fletcher, Haynesworth, Orakpo, Carter and Rocky were the primary reasons we had a good defense last year. Of all of the above, only Orakpo and Flecher have been given due credit. Still, I have seen posts about trading Fletcher for late round picks, so maybe I should take back part of my last statement.

The negativity around here a bit much for you crazyhorse? Just curious if you see any irony in this at all. What do you think?

frankcal20 wrote:...THATS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!!

Why not? It would seem to most that he earned the extention, no ifs, ands, or buts. Looks to me that the Skins management is a bit ethically challenged:

Numerous housecleaning cuts before training camp.
Contract extentions.
"voluntary" workouts that aren't (in violation of players agreement)
Promising Campbell McNabb would be his backup

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:I'm still waiting for you to explain how Rocky has violated the terms of the CBA, which was your contention above.

Actually "violated" is your word. I said he's not honoring it. He's an RFA, he was tendered, the free agency period for him is over, he's not in camp because he's a bitter little wench. I realize he's from Miami, the most arrogant school in collage football not located in South Bend, the school which says they are THE "U" . But he's not that good. I am against AH not being in camp and he is that good.

Except of course that the CBA specifically covers what Rocky's doing, which is why the Skins have the right to reduce their offer on June 15 if he hasn't signed yet. All he's doing is missing--again, as specified in the CBA--voluntary activities, for which--again, per the CBA--he can't be disciplined.

So Rocky at this point has two choices. He can either sign an RFA tender that he's not happy about, that can be revoked at any point before the start of the regular season, and that offers no assurances at all about his contractual status for 2011 (i.e. if the 2011 FA rules are the same as 2010's, he'll *still* be subject to a non-guaranteed RFA tender). Or he can stay home and let his agent work with the team to address some of these concerns.

Either way, the only people not honoring the CBA are the coaching staff--the semi-compulsory "voluntary" activities, the high-impact "non-contact" practices, etc. etc. If you're going to have a pro-owner bias (which is fine--a huge number of fans do), at least be honest about it.

Because they have the draft to focus on and his extension can wait. That's doing their due diligence first to see if there was a market for Rocky. Could they get a better fit for the 3/4 that they are transitioning in, etc.

We've been asking for this style of management for years now and now that we have it, some here think we're screwing up.

Paralis wrote:Except of course that the CBA specifically covers what Rocky's doing, which is why the Skins have the right to reduce their offer on June 15 if he hasn't signed yet. All he's doing is missing--again, as specified in the CBA--voluntary activities, for which--again, per the CBA--he can't be disciplined

I never said the Skins should "discipline" him, and as I said Canes is the one who used the term "violated," not me. I criticized him for not being there. I'm not covered by the CBA and even if I were the CBA doesn't prevent me from doing that. The way I read it is he thinks he was ripped off by the free agency rules changes that went into affect this year. Rules that were agreed to by his union and he was aware of when he signed his contract. There is nothing productive of his not being at the OTAs for the Skins, for the team, or for him. It's just selfish, unproductive bitterness.

Sure, but that's all speculation. Nobody knows what Rocky's asking for or what the Redskins are offering. It could be as small as guaranteeing the tender, and it could be as big as Rocky wanting Lance Briggs' contract.

But at this point, he's only got the one card to play, and it's hard to fault him for it. This is a specific situation envisioned by both the owners and the NFLPA when they made the rules for the last capped year in the CBA.

Anyway, he's a good player and I hope the Skins find a way to keep him.

frankcal20 wrote:Because they have the draft to focus on and his extension can wait. That's doing their due diligence first to see if there was a market for Rocky. Could they get a better fit for the 3/4 that they are transitioning in, etc.

We've been asking for this style of management for years now and now that we have it, some here think we're screwing up.

And his behavior is dramatically reducing any market that would have existed. Not disagreeing with you Frank, just commenting. But that's why I said this is in no one's interest. Now we have the choice of giving a child his way and getting nothing for him because his behavior dried up the market or letting him sit. Which is why I said this was in no one's interest, including him. He's pretty cheap to allow to sit and sulk given he's killed chance at a trade for any value. He made his bed...

Paralis wrote:Sure, but that's all speculation. Nobody knows what Rocky's asking for or what the Redskins are offering. It could be as small as guaranteeing the tender, and it could be as big as Rocky wanting Lance Briggs' contract.

Fair enough, future developments should be weighed fairly.

Paralis wrote:But at this point, he's only got the one card to play, and it's hard to fault him for it

Say what? That he has one card to play is ENTIRELY because of his own behavior. Had he come into camp, he had the choice of asking the Skins to extend or trade him. He's made this a showdown and killed the chance of a meaningful trade. He's good, he's not great and no one's giving us anything but at best a very low draft pick to take on what he showed them is our problem as their own. That was HIS actions and his alone. Had he come in and gone straight to management then all the options were possible. Now the only choice is we acquiesce and cut him or give him for a very low pick or let him sit and sulk.

Paralis wrote:This is a specific situation envisioned by both the owners and the NFLPA when they made the rules for the last capped year in the CBA.

Yes, it covers the "rules" of what happens to him. It doesn't help anyone that the new situation is that because of Rocky's choice he has panted us both into a corner and killed the chance of trading him. It's give in for us now or let him sit.

Paralis wrote:Anyway, he's a good player and I hope the Skins find a way to keep him.

If he grows up, I agree. He can resolve this by making a statement he is going to come to all OTA's and start working with management to resolve his situation, as he should have done in the first place.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:I'm still waiting for you to explain how Rocky has violated the terms of the CBA, which was your contention above.

Actually "violated" is your word. I said he's not honoring it. He's an RFA, he was tendered, the free agency period for him is over, he's not in camp because he's a bitter little wench. I realize he's from Miami, the most arrogant school in collage football not located in South Bend, the school which says they are THE "U" . But he's not that good. I am against AH not being in camp and he is that good.

Ok, how is he not honoring the CBA? Has he missed any activities that he is required to attend?

Not that good? 94 tackles, 2 forced fumbles, and 2 interceptions. What else do you want him to do?

This was going to be a tough year to get anything for a Vet player because it's such a deep draft and a Vet player is going to demand more money.

CanesSkins26 wrote:Ok, how is he not honoring the CBA? Has he missed any activities that he is required to attend?

Asked and answered. I made the statement and answered the question as to why I think it. I was never under obligation to convince you of my opinion in order to exercise my right to state it. Sorry.

CanesSkins26 wrote:Not that good? 94 tackles, 2 forced fumbles, and 2 interceptions. What else do you want him to do?

Fair enough, my phrasing wasn't precise and can be read two ways. By "not that good," I did not mean he's not very good. I meant he's not THAT good. In other words, he's a solid player, but he's not a game changer like AH. Even though I think AH is selfish and should be in camp, I would not dump him unless we get real value because he is an exceptional player.

For Rocky, he's good, but he's not exceptional and he has now killed our chance to get meaningful value for him because everyone knew he's not a game changer, he's a solid player, and now they know he's disgruntled and we are in a pickle. They don't want to give us much for him when they think they can get him later for little or nothing and he's not good enough to worry about it if that means they lose out on him.