The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

tribeofjudah wrote:Please let this be a sign that we're not going QB as our #1 pick....Unless it's TEBOW..... hehehe

I'm with you on this. I think this either means that they do not draft a QB, or that they are planning to trade Campbell, draft a QB, and use Grossman as a stop gap until the new QB is ready.

SnyderSucks wrote:I'm with you on this. I think this either means that they do not draft a QB, or that they are planning to trade Campbell, draft a QB, and use Grossman as a stop gap until the new QB is ready.

My head hurts just thinking about the number of conspiracy theories ...

oh wait ... maybe these are only theories. Scratch the word CONSPIRACY from the text above. JC might get the wrong idea.

Redskin in Canada wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:I'm with you on this. I think this either means that they do not draft a QB, or that they are planning to trade Campbell, draft a QB, and use Grossman as a stop gap until the new QB is ready.

My head hurts just thinking about the number of conspiracy theories ...

oh wait ... maybe these are only theories. Scratch the word CONSPIRACY from the text above. JC might get the wrong idea.

I just don't see the team with three QB's. They only kept two last year, and Shanahan only kept two the last couple of years in Denver.

Trade Jason as part of a package to get into the middle of the first round, let Rex take the reins while young Tebow gets his bearings in the Shanhanian Philosophies.

Redskin in Canada wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:I'm with you on this. I think this either means that they do not draft a QB, or that they are planning to trade Campbell, draft a QB, and use Grossman as a stop gap until the new QB is ready.

My head hurts just thinking about the number of conspiracy theories ...

oh wait ... maybe these are only theories. Scratch the word CONSPIRACY from the text above. JC might get the wrong idea.

This is great....


Smokescreens going everywhere and more to come (I hope).


The Redskins are Under New Management and there is a plan. Part of the plan is not to let anyone know what the plan is. I can see what is happening but not sure what is what, because of some of the moves they have made.

It's cool not knowing what's really going on for a change.


3 plugs in one sentence...

Gibbs4Life wrote:Trade Jason as part of a package to get into the middle of the first round, let Rex take the reins while young Tebow gets his bearings in the Shanhanian Philosophies.

Aren't we taking Tebow at #4?

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:Trade Jason as part of a package to get into the middle of the first round, let Rex take the reins while young Tebow gets his bearings in the Shanhanian Philosophies.

Aren't we taking Tebow at #4?

He wont be around at #4. We have to trade up to #1 to get him. He is the best qb prospect to ever come out of college. He is Marino, Steve Young, and Joe Montana combined into one.

If we have to take him at 4 we will. Based on his pro day the Browns the Seahawks the Bills and the Panthers are gunning for him so if they think we want him in the 2nd they won't let him slip...not to mention Jacksonville at no.10

It's a weird day when some Redskins fans are cheering the signing of a former Bears' QB.

Strange things.

CanesSkins26 wrote:He wont be around at #4. We have to trade up to #1 to get him. He is the best qb prospect to ever come out of college. He is Marino, Steve Young, and Joe Montana combined into one.

We need to trade down with SF and pick up both of their first round picks, then send ey and our 4th round pick to NE for two of their three 2nd round picks (they just signed Alge Crumpler, they'll give us whatever we want). Put all that together with Campbell and Carter for the number 1 pick and Carriker. We'll get Tebow and it'll be just like old times.

Grossman is Shany's Todd Collins.

El Mexican wrote:It's a weird day when some Redskins fans are cheering the signing of a former Bears' QB.

Strange things.

More then that, a Bears QB and a Gator QB

yupchagee wrote:Grossman is Shany's Todd Collins.

I'm not sure if you mean that as a compliment or slam, but I think it's a compliment to say that. TC was a quality backup with lots of experience and a good attitude. I have no issue at all with letting him go, but I appreciate what he did when he was here. I'd be happy if Grossman does what TC did for us. I sure hope we never need to start him.

SnyderSucks wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:Please let this be a sign that we're not going QB as our #1 pick....Unless it's TEBOW..... hehehe

I'm with you on this. I think this either means that they do not draft a QB, or that they are planning to trade Campbell, draft a QB, and use Grossman as a stop gap until the new QB is ready.

No. It doesn't mean any of that.

Gibbs4Life wrote:Trade Jason as part of a package to get into the middle of the first round, let Rex take the reins while young Tebow gets his bearings in the Shanhanian Philosophies.

May be the worst idea I've ever heard.

Gibbs4Life wrote:Trade Jason as part of a package to get into the middle of the first round, let Rex take the reins while young Tebow gets his bearings in the Shanhanian Philosophies.

1. Rex Grossman sucks more than JC.
2. Tebow is not an NFL qb and would be worse than both Rex and JC.
3. This is the one of the worst football ideas I've ever seen.

crazyhorse1 wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:Trade Jason as part of a package to get into the middle of the first round, let Rex take the reins while young Tebow gets his bearings in the Shanhanian Philosophies.

May be the worst idea I've ever heard.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:Trade Jason as part of a package to get into the middle of the first round, let Rex take the reins while young Tebow gets his bearings in the Shanhanian Philosophies.

1. Rex Grossman sucks more than JC.
2. Tebow is not an NFL qb and would be worse than both Rex and JC.
3. This is the one of the worst football ideas I've ever seen.

I think #1 ... it's a toss up between the two QBs insofar as effectiveness, with Grossman having an early edge due to his familiarity with K. Shannahan's offense.

Don't even think for a moment that father and son haven't already anticipated the possibility that Grossman might be more effective in 2010, given the difficulties Campbell has demonstrated in grasping two previous offenses. They have no investment in Campbell like Gibbs did (because he drafted him) or Zorn did (because he was brought in to coach him up).

There is no way I would jump to the assumption that Campbell is going into this thing as the clear starter. He's got a 1 year deal, and his status as the starter will be based on performance in camp and preseason ... not the anointment he has thus far enjoyed.

I'd also bet you that Grossman will be highly motivated, and sees blood in the water.

#2 Tebow is a good kid, and a good athlete, with a great attitude. But I don't remotely see him as an NFL calibre QB ... not even with a couple of years on the bench.

We won't be drafting Tebow. Personally, I'd like to see us draft McCoy in the 2nd round, and let the two Colts compete for the position of young QB grooming, as I think either one could be effective given the right circumstances and the proper development. Are either one going to be Peyton Manning? No ... and I don't see anyone else available that would be either.

RayNAustin wrote:They have no investment in Campbell like Gibbs did (because he drafted him) or Zorn did (because he was brought in to coach him up).

There is no way I would jump to the assumption that Campbell is going into this thing as the clear starter. He's got a 1 year deal, and his status as the starter will be based on performance in camp and preseason ... not the anointment he has thus far enjoyed

Dude, you are too funny. Yes Ray, everyone deep down knows you were right all along. Gibbs knew it and couldn't cut him because he had drafted him. We'll ignore the hundreds of players and numerous quarterbacks he cut he'd drafted and 3 Super Bowls he won because that's not convenient to the argument. Zorn knew you were right too, but he couldn't face management and say he'd failed in the primary if not only task he was hired for, making sure Jason Campbell, the blessed one succeeded. Instead he started until he got fired, a far better fate then saying JC sucked. Clearly you were right over a HOF coach and former NFL quarterback and quarterbacks coach.

We on the board were of course in love with Campbell all along endlessly touting the Super Bowls he would win, Pro Bowls he would be in for a decade culminating in a first ballot HOF entry. Only the little voice in our head from the heart of Texas we did our best to ignore pulled on our confidence. The truth of the voice becoming louder every day as JC bungled his way. Of course it made us only louder in his praise until finally unable to deny any longer our deep error recognized only by you we finally, at last recognized your keen insight. That you turned out to be right and every Redskin fan and our coaching staff having been wrong just all the more exalting the glory you are here every day to claim.

Yes, Ray, you were right. We were all wrong. Our management, our coaches, our owners, and every Redskin fan but you. Are you happy now?

I agree with Ray 100%. You are more likely to stick with a guy you drafted as to avoid the "bust" label. It should be and will be a competition in camp and the best QB will start.

broomboy wrote:I agree with Ray 100%. You are more likely to stick with a guy you drafted as to avoid the "bust" label. It should be and will be a competition in camp and the best QB will start.

Sure, stubbornly sticking to players who suck because you drafted them and are too insecure to admit you were wrong. That's how you win three Super Bowls and go into the HOF. Got it.

My career has been in management and management consulting and I can tell you know matter how good anyone is at hiring you make mistakes and no successful performance organization clings to mistakes. The idea of management is to identify and correct mistakes, not defend and cling to them. And no industry is more competitive then the NFL. You're just wrong, sorry. There is no possible way that Gibbs kept him for that reason and the argument Zorn played him because he was hired to coach JC is just bizarre.

RayNAustin wrote:
I think #1 ... it's a toss up between the two QBs insofar as effectiveness, with Grossman having an early edge due to his familiarity with K. Shannahan's offense.

I keep hearing about Rex and Kyle's offense he may be close friends with Kyle but how familiar is he with the WC offense in general (let alone Kyle's) is something to be looked at.

Jason has been in the East coast version of the WC offense for two years . In fact Campbell has played 2 of five full seasons in the WC (a scheme he was familiar with from college).

Grossman total familiarity with running Kyle Shannahan's offense consist of one game. He only played because Schaub got hurt early in the game. Rex had nine passing attempts, and was the ball carrier three times. He averaged 0.7 yards per completion than he averaged when the play ended with the ball in his hand.

That's just as confusing as saying " it's a toss up between the two QBs insofar as effectiveness, with Grossman having an early edge"

What edge? His ONLY full season in the NFL was the SB season and he had little to do with that. He threw for 3,193 yards and completed just over 50% of his passes. But it was the Bears, in fact Campbell had better numbers in both years in the WC than Rex had his ONE good year. As far as Rex having a advantage over JC in Kyle's system it is what it is.

What is completing 33% of your attempts for a 3.7 yard average, rushing for nine yards, throwing a pick and getting yanked for a guy with a separated shoulder before half-time?

RayNAustin wrote:
Don't even think for a moment that father and son haven't already anticipated the possibility that Grossman might be more effective in 2010, given the difficulties Campbell has demonstrated in grasping two previous offenses. They have no investment in Campbell like Gibbs did (because he drafted him) or Zorn did (because he was brought in to coach him up).

There is no way I would jump to the assumption that Campbell is going into this thing as the clear starter. He's got a 1 year deal, and his status as the starter will be based on performance in camp and preseason ... not the anointment he has thus far enjoyed.

Campbell goes in as the better QB, he also goes into camp coming off a 16 games season with four wins. Completion for the starting spot is definately needed. I'm not sure Rex will provide that, and nothing in his past says that he will

RayNAustin wrote:
I'd also bet you that Grossman will be highly motivated, and sees blood in the water.

I bet Grossman see's this as his buddy giving him one last shot and he bet not screw it up. This could be a good thing, still it's his final shot, and Colt might be him out at #3

RayNAustin wrote:#2 Tebow is a good kid, and a good athlete, with a great attitude. But I don't remotely see him as an NFL calibre QB ... not even with a couple of years on the bench.

Think Mike Tice

RayNAustin wrote:We won't be drafting Tebow. Personally, I'd like to see us draft McCoy in the 2nd round, and let the two Colts compete for the position of young QB grooming, as I think either one could be effective given the right circumstances and the proper development. Are either one going to be Peyton Manning? No ... and I don't see anyone else available that would be either.

I really don't see how they can spend a 1st or 2nd on a QB unless they pick up another pick in the first 3 rounds or a 3rd and a later round pick.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:Dude, you are too funny. Yes Ray, everyone deep down knows you were right all along. Gibbs knew it and couldn't cut him because he had drafted him. We'll ignore the hundreds of players and numerous quarterbacks he cut he'd drafted and 3 Super Bowls he won because that's not convenient to the argument. Zorn knew you were right too, but he couldn't face management and say he'd failed in the primary if not only task he was hired for, making sure Jason Campbell, the blessed one succeeded. Instead he started until he got fired, a far better fate then saying JC sucked. Clearly you were right over a HOF coach and former NFL quarterback and quarterbacks coach.

I'm glad I amuse you, and you never disappoint. For if you'd respond to any post I make with something thoughtful, and not steeped in sarcasm and snide remarks .. well I'd have to conclude that someone either gained access to your user name and password, or you fell down and hit your head on something.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:We on the board were of course in love with Campbell all along endlessly touting the Super Bowls he would win, Pro Bowls he would be in for a decade culminating in a first ballot HOF entry. Only the little voice in our head from the heart of Texas we did our best to ignore pulled on our confidence. The truth of the voice becoming louder every day as JC bungled his way. Of course it made us only louder in his praise until finally unable to deny any longer our deep error recognized only by you we finally, at last recognized your keen insight. That you turned out to be right and every Redskin fan and our coaching staff having been wrong just all the more exalting the glory you are here every day to claim.

Yes, Ray, you were right. We were all wrong. Our management, our coaches, our owners, and every Redskin fan but you. Are you happy now?

The better question is ... do you feel better now? Apparently this has been eating away at you for some time ... and I'm sure, getting this all off your chest has to provide you some comfort.

I've been pretty consistent since early 2007 about my opinion of Campbell, of course, you, on the other hand have been a perpetual fence sitter, agreeing here, disagreeing there ... very safe spot for you to rewrite the history depending on the outcome.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here that sees the game you play. You're very transparent.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

broomboy wrote:I agree with Ray 100%. You are more likely to stick with a guy you drafted as to avoid the "bust" label. It should be and will be a competition in camp and the best QB will start.

Sure, stubbornly sticking to players who suck because you drafted them and are too insecure to admit you were wrong. That's how you win three Super Bowls and go into the HOF. Got it.

My career has been in management and management consulting and I can tell you know matter how good anyone is at hiring you make mistakes and no successful performance organization clings to mistakes. The idea of management is to identify and correct mistakes, not defend and cling to them. And no industry is more competitive then the NFL. You're just wrong, sorry. There is no possible way that Gibbs kept him for that reason and the argument Zorn played him because he was hired to coach JC is just bizarre.

And off course we ALL AGREE how wonderful the Redskin management has been the past 10 years, don't we?

Personally, my position on Campbell has been correct ... something you are loath to acknowledge ... but in all fairness to the organization, it's easy for me to say this ... while they were the ones with the vested interest in seeing Campbell develop successfully. When an organization picks a player in the 1st round (in this case two in the same year -Rogers & Campbell) there is the risk that they could make a mistake. History shows at this point, two swings and misses. Neither player has produced at the level to which they were drafted, and only the most stubborn who are inextricably married to their hoped for outcome would argue that.

As for Campbell, he's been on the cusp of developing, but never quite managed to take the next step and become a playmaker. And I don't fault the organization for their commitment to seeing it through ... though I disagreed with their unwillingness to pull him at times when it was called for.

In any event ... it was always just "my opinion" ... be it correct or incorrect about Campbell. And when I said (going into 2008) that he was a poor fit for the WC offense, I based that on the weaknesses he'd demonstrated as compared to the requirements for a WC QB ... quick reads, quick decisions, quick throws ... things Campbell was deficient in.

Going into 2009, most (not all) were optimistic that in his second year in Zorn's offense, he would excell, and have his "Breakout" year. I said no, and that too was correct.

Now ... for the record, I say again, Campbell has demonstrated a slowness at learning new systems and becoming comfortable. He is a purely rhythm QB who has never really excelled in pre-season play. His pre-season work and results have been very mediocre for his entire career ... and it is precisely this reason that I do not believe that he will be considered the starter from the outset, with the job his to lose.

Now, depending on who is competing in camp, and how that all plays out is yet to be seen. Like I said before ... I've never been a Grossman fan, so to me, we now have 3 QBs ... 1 unproven young guy .. and 2 extremely mediocre veterans. The Redskin QB job at this point is wide open, in my opinion ... and whoever shows the better grasp of the offense, and the most effectiveness will wind up the starter in 2010.

In previous years, it was Campbell's job to lose ... not his job to win. This year, he'll have to win it, and the edge starting out is with Grossman.

Just my opinion ... you can bookmark this post, and we can review it at the appropriate time

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

broomboy wrote:I agree with Ray 100%. You are more likely to stick with a guy you drafted as to avoid the "bust" label. It should be and will be a competition in camp and the best QB will start.

Sure, stubbornly sticking to players who suck because you drafted them and are too insecure to admit you were wrong. That's how you win three Super Bowls and go into the HOF. Got it.

My career has been in management and management consulting and I can tell you know matter how good anyone is at hiring you make mistakes and no successful performance organization clings to mistakes. The idea of management is to identify and correct mistakes, not defend and cling to them. And no industry is more competitive then the NFL. You're just wrong, sorry. There is no possible way that Gibbs kept him for that reason and the argument Zorn played him because he was hired to coach JC is just bizarre.

And off course we ALL AGREE how wonderful the Redskin management has been the past 10 years, don't we?

Personally, my position on Campbell has been correct ... something you are loath to acknowledge ... but in all fairness to the organization, it's easy for me to say this ... while they were the ones with the vested interest in seeing Campbell develop successfully. When an organization picks a player in the 1st round (in this case two in the same year -Rogers & Campbell) there is the risk that they could make a mistake. History shows at this point, two swings and misses. Neither player has produced at the level to which they were drafted, and only the most stubborn who are inextricably married to their hoped for outcome would argue that.

As for Campbell, he's been on the cusp of developing, but never quite managed to take the next step and become a playmaker. And I don't fault the organization for their commitment to seeing it through ... though I disagreed with their unwillingness to pull him at times when it was called for.

In any event ... it was always just "my opinion" ... be it correct or incorrect about Campbell. And when I said (going into 2008) that he was a poor fit for the WC offense, I based that on the weaknesses he'd demonstrated as compared to the requirements for a WC QB ... quick reads, quick decisions, quick throws ... things Campbell was deficient in.

Going into 2009, most (not all) were optimistic that in his second year in Zorn's offense, he would excell, and have his "Breakout" year. I said no, and that too was correct.

Now ... for the record, I say again, Campbell has demonstrated a slowness at learning new systems and becoming comfortable. He is a purely rhythm QB who has never really excelled in pre-season play. His pre-season work and results have been very mediocre for his entire career ... and it is precisely this reason that I do not believe that he will be considered the starter from the outset, with the job his to lose.

Now, depending on who is competing in camp, and how that all plays out is yet to be seen. Like I said before ... I've never been a Grossman fan, so to me, we now have 3 QBs ... 1 unproven young guy .. and 2 extremely mediocre veterans. The Redskin QB job at this point is wide open, in my opinion ... and whoever shows the better grasp of the offense, and the most effectiveness will wind up the starter in 2010.

In previous years, it was Campbell's job to lose ... not his job to win. This year, he'll have to win it, and the edge starting out is with Grossman.

Just my opinion ... you can bookmark this post, and we can review it at the appropriate time