Post Game Discussion - Skins/Cowboys

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:51 pm

tribeofjudah wrote:News Flash: WE SUCK

I was trying to put my finger on it, and here it is! Dead on. Sadly. Allen had to be watching the game and thinking, "What have I done!?!?!?"

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:53 pm

JansenFan wrote:Can anyone remember a post-game thread that was only four pages long 16 hours after being spanked by the Cowboys? It just goes to show that the Redskins are losing their fanbase, or at least lsoing their interest.

I don't know what you've got up your sleeve, Bruce, but I hope it's good.

I think it's that everything that we have to say has already been said.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:57 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
JansenFan wrote:Can anyone remember a post-game thread that was only four pages long 16 hours after being spanked by the Cowboys? It just goes to show that the Redskins are losing their fanbase, or at least lsoing their interest.

I don't know what you've got up your sleeve, Bruce, but I hope it's good.

I think it's that everything that we have to say has already been said.

That, plus the fact that all of these coaches are gone after next Sunday so there is no real point in getting too worked up over the loss. It's just a miserable ending to a miserable season.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:00 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
tribeofjudah wrote:News Flash: WE SUCK

I was trying to put my finger on it, and here it is! Dead on. Sadly. Allen had to be watching the game and thinking, "What have I done!?!?!?"

Nah... I bet he was thinking... "I'd have to work pretty darned hard to mess this up."

ATX_Skins · Post by **ATX_Skins** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:02 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
JansenFan wrote:Can anyone remember a post-game thread that was only four pages long 16 hours after being spanked by the Cowboys? It just goes to show that the Redskins are losing their fanbase, or at least lsoing their interest.

I don't know what you've got up your sleeve, Bruce, but I hope it's good.

The CAPS are not so slowly taking over as DC's team at the moment. Their is actual excitement around that team. DC will always be a football town first, but with the Skins this bad I think that many people just don't care anymore. For example, in the past I never would have turned down free tix to a Skins-Cowboys game, but I simply had no motivation to go to that game last night. Hopefully they turn this around because I really think that they are starting to lose fans, some permanently.

DC belongs to Ovechkin. I love football but what Ovie and the CAPS have done for Washington trumps the Redskins as of late. I went to the home opener this year and I have never felt so proud to be a sports fan from DC. Thats all I will say about the CAPS because this is a Redskins board. Maybe some of you feel the same way, maybe not.

PAPDOG67 · Post by **PAPDOG67** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:07 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:
PAPDOG67 wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:
PAPDOG67 wrote:Anyone who still thinks that the only reason LL was ineffective was because he playing out of position is kidding themselves. This guy stinks, and we would be smart to try and get anything for him in the offseason. The fact that he let the slowest TE in the league burn him for an 80 yard play sealed it for me. I hope to never see him in a Skins uniform after this season.

He got burnt, but Witten is hardly the slowest TE in the league. We have enough to complain about, don't go making up gradeschool stories...

and if Hall, Rogers, Landry, ect, seem to have issues, did you ever think that if could be a COACHING issue? NEVER? I didn't think so.

If your sticking up for LL than you need to watch the games more closely. Witten's catches this season rarely go for more than 10 yards and there's a reason for that.......because he runs like he has a piano on his back. If you're a safety and you can't cover a TE who doesn't run very well, its time to find another job. Don't talk to me about coaching, he was in man coverage and got toasted. That's not coaching.

One play doesn't define a career. and if you've noticed, I've not defended Landry in the past month or so...even I have called for his benching. As for his skill, that's coming in question. I just don't want to lose his athleticism and find out that we have subpar coaches.

And as for Witten, it could possibly be, just possibly, that Witten is Romo's favorite target so he gets more attention. That would hinder the YAC. Nah, that's blasphemy.

That's funny, because I routinely watch the games every Sunday with three guys I grew up with who are brothers and happen to be Cowgirl fans, and they agree with me that Witten has simply gotten old overnight and is extremely slow now and doesn't get any more YAC at all. If you've noticed, teams don't even cover him with safties anymore, they cover him with LBs, which wasn't the case the last few years.

RayNAustin · Post by **RayNAustin** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:29 pm

Never in a Million years did I think that the Steve Spurrior "Chuck & Duck" offense could have been surpassed in it's ill conceived futility ... until now.

And I've never seen a more clueless bunch than what infests the halls of Redskin park. The Redskins don't need Bruce allen as much as they need a platoon of workers from Orkin ... to fumigate and delouse the house, making it safe for human habitation again.

And I feel not an inkling of pity for this whacky new age numbskull, and his staff that shouldn't be trusted to run a high school football program. Go back to Seattle and take your slip-N-slide with you!

Blache .. retire, or else face the humiliation of having a Keno caller join the bingo caller in 2010 to come in and invite the other half of the defense to line up in the remote vicinity of where a 3rd and 6 play might take place.

No ... I think we need Columbo to come in to investigate who might have spiked the gator aide with LSD. Surely what we've witnessed cannot be the product of grown men of sound mind and body ...

RayNAustin · Post by **RayNAustin** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:49 pm

PAPDOG67 wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:
PAPDOG67 wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:
PAPDOG67 wrote:Anyone who still thinks that the only reason LL was ineffective was because he playing out of position is kidding themselves. This guy stinks, and we would be smart to try and get anything for him in the offseason. The fact that he let the slowest TE in the league burn him for an 80 yard play sealed it for me. I hope to never see him in a Skins uniform after this season.

He got burnt, but Witten is hardly the slowest TE in the league. We have enough to complain about, don't go making up gradeschool stories...

and if Hall, Rogers, Landry, ect, seem to have issues, did you ever think that if could be a COACHING issue? NEVER? I didn't think so.

If your sticking up for LL than you need to watch the games more closely. Witten's catches this season rarely go for more than 10 yards and there's a reason for that.......because he runs like he has a piano on his back. If you're a safety and you can't cover a TE who doesn't run very well, its time to find another job. Don't talk to me about coaching, he was in man coverage and got toasted. That's not coaching.

One play doesn't define a career. and if you've noticed, I've not defended Landry in the past month or so...even I have called for his benching. As for his skill, that's coming in question. I just don't want to lose his athleticism and find out that we have subpar coaches.

And as for Witten, it could possibly be, just possibly, that Witten is Romo's favorite target so he gets more attention. That would hinder the YAC. Nah, that's blasphemy.

That's funny, because I routinely watch the games every Sunday with three guys I grew up with who are brothers and happen to be Cowgirl fans, and they agree with me that Witten has simply gotten old overnight and is extremely slow now and doesn't get any more YAC at all. If you've noticed, teams don't even cover him with safties anymore, they cover him with LBs, which wasn't the case the last few years.

Look here ... this is basic physics ... Witten 6' 5", 265 Lbs Landry 6' 0" 210 Lbs. No way should Witten outrun him for 70 yards. There is no need to over think this.

That Landry is constantly showing up late on plays, or taking bad angles may in fact be the result of having a safety with defensive tackle speed?

Of all of the bone headed plays that this clown has made ... all of the whiffs ... the overrunning of plays ... the constant diet of double move sandwiches he's been dinning on ... perhaps he's just a lousy football player that thinks he's pretty darned good, and there's no one in the organization smart enough to argue with him.

There are a couple of others for which this possible explanation would also apply.

welch · Post by **welch** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:57 pm

JF&J wrote

Can anyone remember a post-game thread that was only four pages long 16 hours after being spanked by the Cowboys? It just goes to show that the Redskins are losing their fan-base, or at least losing their interest.

It will get better.

Having seen worse, I'll say that nothing breaks the Redskins' or Senators' fan-base. The Redskins did not go to the playoffs between the mid-40s and 1971, and in their best year (note: singular. Ugh!) they weren't even close to the Browns or the Giants.

Still, give us a spark, and people will respond.

I think it will take two years of re-building before Allen and <whoever> have the Redskins fighting for the playoffs. People will go wild, just as they did in George Allen's first season.

I still remember gathering at my uncle's house: my Dad and three uncles and about six or seven male cousins, all there because that uncle had a color TV and the Redskins were tough, even without Sonny Jurgensen (broken arm) and Charley Taylor (broken leg).

In 1960, Griffith Stadium was (effectively) packed because the Nats had a winning record most of the season. (Injuries sank the last few weeks, but to finish fifth was a triumph!).

So...it will be a painful week, and I'll be glad when this season is over.

I don't expect Bruce Allen to pull off something like his dad's "The Future is Now" miracle, but it will be good to have a professional football person controlling the Redskins. (Assuming Snyder stands back, and maybe, just maybe, Snyder has been humiliated enough to do that.)

- The young receivers look better and better. Not Charley Taylor and Jerry Smith, but OK.

- Campbell is OK...not Sonny, but OK.

- The OL needs players, and Beathard/Gibbs/Bugel showed how quickly a line can be built. Lucky thing might be that no one keeps stats on college linemen. Nobody interviews linemen on their radio shows. The only Heisman ever awarded to a lineman was to an end, as best I remember, and that was about 1948. Who at the Post wanted the Skins to trade a future first round for a third round because Russ Grimm was available?

Who drafted Jeff Bostic? Who drafted Joe Jacoby? What round was George Starke drafted in? Or Mark Sclereth? Or Raleigh Mackenzie?

- The defense is hard to figure out. I hope Allen and <whoever> can do that in two years.

So there's my wishful guessing: two years and a better Redskins. Maybe even a better Nats/Senators with a smarter front office.

Here's a final thought from Oxon Hill Dave, spoken back in 1988: "You know, I bet there are young kids who assume the Redskins are a perpetual powerhouse. They don't know much before George Allen and Joe Gibbs and Super Bowl wins. Isn't that strange?" [Dave was one of the only other people who could name the Senators starting lineup from 1959, and even remembered Herb Plews.]

This is what it was like. That's why we made so much of The Riggins Run that I don't even have to say more to identify it.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:02 pm

Maybe even a better Nats/Senators with a smarter front office.

Kind of off-topic, but the Nats will be better before the Redskins. They've made some very smart moves this offseason and have put themselves into a position where they can compete in a year or two if some of their younger players develop as they should. As frustrating as it's been over the last few years, the Nats have at least been building from the ground up, re-stocking a farm system that was the worst in baseball and putting more of an emphasis on scouting and player development.

patjam77 · Post by **patjam77** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:37 pm

RedskinTexan wrote:Let's get to January 4, 2010 and the beginning of the Mike Shanahan era of Redskin football. This season is garbage we lose next Sunday without question. Zorn is an unmitigated disaster and the team is ready to go their separate ways come the off-season. The looming uncapped year means Washington can unload several large contracts without ramifications. It's time to begin 2010.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I just wish Campbell had shown more this year. Yeah, some will say the O-line stunk, and they did, but how many wide open recievers did JC miss? There are no FA QB's worth signing and a Rookie QB will set us back 3 years. # years and that's hoping he's any good!

P.S. I cried myself to sleep last night.

patjam77 · Post by **patjam77** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:42 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:
PAPDOG67 wrote:Anyone who still thinks that the only reason LL was ineffective was because he playing out of position is kidding themselves. This guy stinks, and we would be smart to try and get anything for him in the offseason. The fact that he let the slowest TE in the league burn him for an 80 yard play sealed it for me. I hope to never see him in a Skins uniform after this season.

He got burnt, but Witten is hardly the slowest TE in the league. We have enough to complain about, don't go making up gradeschool stories...

and if Hall, Rogers, Landry, ect, seem to have issues, did you ever think that if could be a COACHING issue? NEVER? I didn't think so.

Coming out of college LL was one of the fastest guys running a 4.30/40 I think? He is always OUT OF POSITION. He can run fast but that means nothing when he takes bad angles and makes bad decisions. So yeah, that's why he got toasted by Witten and by every other decent reciever in the league.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:47 pm

Redskin in Canada wrote:
JansenFan wrote:Can anyone remember a post-game thread that was only four pages long 16 hours after being spanked by the Cowboys? It just goes to show that the Redskins are losing their fanbase, or at least lsoing their interest.
I don't know what you've got up your sleeve, Bruce, but I hope it's good.

It needed to take a SUPER HUMAN effort to lose the fan base.
We have to give credit to Danny for that "achievement".

well at least part of the credit goes to him .... :lol:

I agree with welch in that as soon as things even look like getting better the fans will fall all over themselves to get back onto the bus

I also will go on record as saying that if we do get the new FO up and running with Snyder's full support (and no meddling) this franchise will immediately be better - the level of talent that can be added to what is already here, with the right people in charge coupled with really good coaching and this franchise will become a team again very quickly

I watch a lot of football - the NFL is based on parity and this week we saw the Tampa Bay Bucaneers beat the Saints in New Orleans - the Browns have won 3 games in a row and recently the Raiders beat the Steelers in a game in Pittsburgh that the Steelers really needed - we are almost certainly heading for an uncapped year (which IMO helps us) and this franchise with the right management, really good coaching and Snyder's pocket book can turn things around - I agree with welch also in that in 2 years we can be consistently competitive but I look for big improvement begining next season - how hard is to be better than what we have seen - the last 2 games were terrible but we'll be a better team next year

I will also predict that we go at least 2-4 in the NFC East next year

I like the Caps, the Nats and the Wizards - BUT - DC fans are Redskins fans - H A I L

Snout · Post by **Snout** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:10 am

Remember that Marty came in, gutted the roster, imposed some discipline, and went 8-8 in his first and only season after years of mediocrity under Norv. And that was behind Tony Banks at QB. You will also recall that his decisions were not popular at the time. Remember when his staff tried to teach Darrell Green new techniques at CB? Remember all of the tough rules at training camp? Remember when he cut the players making the bloated salaries? No wonder the Washington Post was calling for his head and danced in the streets when Spurrier came in.

I say brace for an offseason with a lot of changes that will be second guessed.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:29 am

Fortunately the guys coming in are going to be in a lot better situation than when Marty was trying to run things here - these guys will have full control and will get this franchise back on it's feet relatively quickly with Snyder's support instead of having him hurt the opration as he and Cerrato did

this franchise will be competing as a team again in a very short time because there really is not much difference at the top level when you have players who are coached well and are playing together

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:11 am

I'd like to see Marty come back, now that would be a shock!!!

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:56 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I'd like to see Marty come back, now that would be a shock!!!

It might be a shock but I highly doubt that it would be very forward thinking - fortunately, I don't think that he's on anyone's list

Marty's most likely calling bingo games or wherever coaches that used to know what they were doing go when they don't have it anymore

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:05 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
JansenFan wrote:Can anyone remember a post-game thread that was only four pages long 16 hours after being spanked by the Cowboys? It just goes to show that the Redskins are losing their fanbase, or at least lsoing their interest.

I don't know what you've got up your sleeve, Bruce, but I hope it's good.

I think it's that everything that we have to say has already been said.

Yeah, because no one here ever posts the same thing over and over and over. :lol:

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:10 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I'd like to see Marty come back, now that would be a shock!!!

Well, technically, he couldn't work with Dan Snyder (and Vinny). This time, he would be working for Allen. After he vehemently declared he could never work for Snyder the first time, only to sign a deal with the team that offseason, I will not count him out for a return to Washington.

It's improbable, but not impossible, IMO.

I, for one, would welcome him back. Without Tony Banks, of course.

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:12 pm

JansenFan wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
JansenFan wrote:Can anyone remember a post-game thread that was only four pages long 16 hours after being spanked by the Cowboys? It just goes to show that the Redskins are losing their fanbase, or at least lsoing their interest.

I don't know what you've got up your sleeve, Bruce, but I hope it's good.

I think it's that everything that we have to say has already been said.

Yeah, because no one here ever posts the same thing over and over and over.

Or turns evey thread into a political debate :wink:

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:29 pm

DEHog wrote:Or turns evey thread into a political debate

Recognizing there's a dead moose on the table doesn't mean you put it there

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:32 pm

JansenFan wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
JansenFan wrote:Can anyone remember a post-game thread that was only four pages long 16 hours after being spanked by the Cowboys? It just goes to show that the Redskins are losing their fanbase, or at least lsoing their interest.

I don't know what you've got up your sleeve, Bruce, but I hope it's good.

I think it's that everything that we have to say has already been said.

Yeah, because no one here ever posts the same thing over and over and over.

I know you're saying it in fun, but as a serious reply anyway it's not an all or nothing proposition. There are lots of angles to look at, different players/staff on the skins, different posters on the board. So sure, there's lots of repetition. But at this point, Cerrato is gone, Zorn is about to be, no one knows which players are going to be back and the end of the season where every topic has been hashed and re-hashed. There just isn't anywhere to go right now on most of the issues.

HEROHAMO · Post by **HEROHAMO** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:41 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I'd like to see Marty come back, now that would be a shock!!!

I would not mind Marty. I would however want a good offensive coordinator to come along with him. Marty's specialty was in defense and choosing good defensive players.