Skins-Raiders Post Game

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:45 pm

Hail YEah !!!!!

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:46 pm

I'm actually just watching the game now. I had to work today but tivo'd it.

PAPDOG67 · Post by **PAPDOG67** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:04 pm

frankcal20 wrote:I'm actually just watching the game now. I had to work today but tivo'd it.

Enjoy, it was our best effort overall from all three phases.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:05 pm

So far - so good. Landry just got the INT - but it's being challenged.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:14 pm

I'm all for Campbell having a great finish here - I think there's a great chance that there's no CBA and we'll get something for him

I'm still not thinking Campbell is anything but a good QB but he's still not good enough to be a really good QB - but it's all good with me if he stays until we can get someone behind center that is a really good QB

PAPDOG67 · Post by **PAPDOG67** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:49 pm

There is some horrendous defense being played in this Sun. night game.

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:08 am

frankcal20 wrote:
crazyhorse1 wrote:
frankcal20 wrote:Too bad JC sucks and can't lead a team to victory.
He did today. Looks like you're wrong.

Crazyhorse - Don't you know that I'm the biggest JC supporter on this website? I was being a smart as....s.

Sorry, I responded too quickly, without thought. I agree with you about JC and think he's been unfairly dealt with on the board.

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:51 am

crazyhorse1 wrote:
frankcal20 wrote:
crazyhorse1 wrote:
frankcal20 wrote:Too bad JC sucks and can't lead a team to victory.
He did today. Looks like you're wrong.

Crazyhorse - Don't you know that I'm the biggest JC supporter on this website? I was being a smart as....s.
Sorry, I responded too quickly, without thought. I agree with you about JC and think he's been unfairly dealt with on the board.

I don't think people have been unfair - and I've been a big JC supporter. He's been inconsistent and people have legit questions about him. But I still think most Skins fans really want Campbell to do well.

It would be awesome to see him finish the season strong. Beat the Boys and the Gnats later this month. People might think more about keeping him around a little longer, even if its just to steer the team while we groom a new QB.

btw Sonny Jurgensen says he thinks Campbell will be back in the DC Sports Bog today. Not so sure about Vinny...!

Paralis · Post by **Paralis** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:22 am

For those keeping track, in 7 games with Sherm Lewis calling the plays, Jason Campbell is 153/235 for 1849 yards, 11 TDs and 6 INTs and a rating of 94.1.

If you project that to a 16 game season, that's 348/536 for 4216 yards, 25 TDs and 14 interceptions, which would be:

4th in yardage, 7th in TDs, 6th in QB rating, 6th in YPA by last year's rankings.

But no, he's no better than a backup in the NFL. He's a witch! LET'S BURN HIM!

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:33 am

Sherm Lewis has really thrown a monkey wrench in all of this....

At the moment, if we fire Vinny and keep everything else intact I'd be happy... But I have a feeling it's an all or nothing type of deal.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:25 am

You know the off season wouldn't be the off season if the Redskins weren't shaking things up.

RayNAustin · Post by **RayNAustin** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:25 am

Man, we've been through this routine before ... remember? Jason played pretty well in the first 5-6 games of 2008, and then did a nose dive that lasted through 9 games this year.

He has always shown a tendency to have extended slumps that just kills the offense. Of course when that is happening, it's everyone else EXCEPT Jason that is to blame. But the moment he plays a couple of good games ... the crazy talk and the amnesia strikes.

Personally, and I said this last year too, Jason needs to play well for more than two or three games. Consistency is the key, and winning. Stats mean NOTHING when your record is 6-15 over a long 21 game stretch.

And Jason Campbell has proven the point I've been screaming for two years ... and he did it in the past 2 weeks ... that point is that this team does have talent, and does have depth. Offensively, the main difference over the past two games has been elevated play of the QB, converting third downs, getting the ball to his play makers, and finding the end zone more than once a game.

Of course the on-line looks better, and perhaps they are playing better, but the QB has a huge effect on that too ... and can make an O-line look bad or good, as well as dictate what a defense does. Campbell's elevated play has elevated everyone's level of play, just as sure as his poor play has killed this offense. This is basic football 101 ... the difference between success and failure on offense is more in the hands of the QB than any other player .. and the difference between good QBs and bad QBs can be as little as taking 1/2 second too long to make a decision or a throw.

I actually think that Campbell could be a serviceable, short term interim measure for next season if that could be accomplished without an extended contract. But ideally, he finishes strong enough over the last three games to bump his value, and the Skins can offload him and get a 2nd rounder.

I've seen enough of Jason Campbell to know that the only consistency you'll have with him is his dreadful inconsistency. Let's not let one win over the Raiders blind you to the fact that Jason Campbell has proven nothing in this league ... he's still 19-30 as a starting QB ... and that ain't even close to good.

You don't win Championships with average QBs.

Paralis · Post by **Paralis** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:41 am

RayNAustin wrote:Personally, and I said this last year too, Jason needs to play well for more than two or three games. Consistency is the key, and winning. Stats mean NOTHING when your record is 6-15 over a long 21 game stretch.

Again, it's not 2-3 games. It's 7 games. It's also his 7 most recent games, which coincidentally happen to be his 7 best games.

The point you miss--the point you always miss--is that if you chart Campbell's performance, despite the peaks and valleys, the trend is upward. His play now is better than any of his play in 2008; his first 6 weeks in 2008 were better than any of his play in 2007, and his play in 2007 was better than in 2006.

It's one thing to be impatient--I was impatient with Campbell last year, wanting him to make that leap faster. It's another to stick your head in the sand and deny that the progression's happening. Over the last 7 weeks, Campbell has played more like a pro bowler than an average QB, and although his true value's probably somewhere in the middle, that should be determined by his play going forward, and not his play from over a year ago.

RedskinjXd · Post by **RedskinjXd** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:08 am

Paralis wrote:For those keeping track, in 7 games with Sherm Lewis calling the plays, Jason Campbell is 153/235 for 1849 yards, 11 TDs and 6 INTs and a rating of 94.1.

If you project that to a 16 game season, that's 348/536 for 4216 yards, 25 TDs and 14 interceptions, which would be:

4th in yardage, 7th in TDs, 6th in QB rating, 6th in YPA by last year's rankings.

But no, he's no better than a backup in the NFL. He's a witch! LET'S BURN HIM!

and that was against philly twice, dallas, new orleans, denver and atlanta. 6 playoff quality teams... including 4 of 7 on the road. imagine if he was calling plays against detroit, st. louis, k.c., tampa, and carolina. those are the ones he missed out on.

USAFSkinFan · Post by **USAFSkinFan** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:21 am

whatever happens, I have a lot of respect for how JC has handled himself through this. He still can't take more than a 3-step drop withough getting pummeled... he's playing on sprained ankles... not much of a running game all year... no support from the front office... fans say he's gone... yet I don't see him whinning or blaming or calling out team mates... he's good guy, he works hard, and I appreciate the effort he's given this yeear...

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:23 am

People love to throw out stats...today stats really are misleading...go back and look at HOF QB's like Unitas, Stabauch, Bradshaw...they had less 300 yards pasing games in their career than half the QB's today get in a season.
Jason is a good QB and I think most here have been fair and have acknowledge that. I have repeatedly asked…give me a Jason Campbell signature moment with the Skins??? For me it was his 6-2 start last year…Campbell is a good fit for a team with a great D and a sold running game and that exactly what we had during the 6-2 start last year. I was looking at some “situational” stats on Campbell…he throws his most TD’s in the 4th quarter and his most INT in the 4th quarter…That tells me two things he usually behind and makes critical errors when the games on the line...and the MO of Jason and this team is to play their best ball when nothing is on the line. All that being said I can see him coming back…The FO better be careful what they wish for…but in the end I bet we hear a very familiar story from the FO…Jason doesn’t want to be a Redskins.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:30 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Sherm Lewis has really thrown a monkey wrench in all of this....

At the moment, if we fire Vinny and keep everything else intact I'd be happy... But I have a feeling it's an all or nothing type of deal.

I hear you Chris and I'm very glad that things have looked better from a lot of aspects

Fact is we really need a GM and for Snyder (& Cerrato) to not be involved. To be more specific, what I would hope happens, is that Snyder appoints a GM and gives him control of the coaches and players while he (Snyder) retains the position of owner and in charge of anything to do with finances - He is the owner but he needs to let go and give his full support to whomever is brought in here

That also means that the new GM can decide who should go and who should stay - I think it would just be a continuation of our mediocrity for Snyder to bring in someone and give them control but then say I want Zorn or ANYONE (Campbell, Cool

ey Lewis or Portis) to be a part of this franchise - ALL of those decisions should be made by the new GM

I am hopeful that Campbell can make a great showing here in these final games - as I've said since before the season began and we had the issue with certain guys trying to bring in another QB, this team will be better off if Campbell can be the really good QB that he thinks he is - I still think that he's a good QB BUT he's just not good enough - but we will be better off if he can keep making it look like he's an effective QB for the next few games - HEY! who knows he might even still be here as we get someone else ready to be our QB

grampi · Post by **grampi** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:31 am

Was this actually the Redskins I watched? An offense that scored 30+ for the 2nd straight week, a defense that didn't choke away the game late in the 4th, and a kicker that can actually kick? Where was this team for the first 3/4 of the season?

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:44 am

This not a team - this is a group of very talented players and coaches - we have no illusions about our future under this management, we just take what we can and praise the Lord

what a great weekend it is when the Redskins find a way to win and the Giants lose - that does not happen very often

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:26 am

Heyer has to go, the true O-line showed up yesterday. Yes, Campbell had some success, but his completion percentage was effected greatly by the O-line turning back into pumpkins, when they played so well last week.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:40 am

You forgot that Dallas also lost yet again a game in December. Love it.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:24 pm

Paralis wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:Personally, and I said this last year too, Jason needs to play well for more than two or three games. Consistency is the key, and winning. Stats mean NOTHING when your record is 6-15 over a long 21 game stretch.

Again, it's not 2-3 games. It's 7 games. It's also his 7 most recent games, which coincidentally happen to be his 7 best games.

The point you miss--the point you always miss--is that if you chart Campbell's performance, despite the peaks and valleys, the trend is upward. His play now is better than any of his play in 2008; his first 6 weeks in 2008 were better than any of his play in 2007, and his play in 2007 was better than in 2006.

It's one thing to be impatient--I was impatient with Campbell last year, wanting him to make that leap faster. It's another to stick your head in the sand and deny that the progression's happening. Over the last 7 weeks, Campbell has played more like a pro bowler than an average QB, and although his true value's probably somewhere in the middle, that should be determined by his play going forward, and not his play from over a year ago.

I don't think we'll ever see Campbell playing like a Pro Bowler for a full season, but I agree with the substance of your post here. Early this year it was very easy for critics of JC to have at it, but JC has gone out and proven the haters wrong, as far as I am concerned. His improvement has been substantial enough that I think he should keep the starting job as we look to build a team around him. When the other pieces are in place, we'll probably need someone better to take us to the top. But until then we have MUCH bigger problems and gaps to address.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:40 pm

There are a lot of parts to a team. To be a really good team, all those parts need to be working in unison. If you have some parts, but not all, your chance of having success is going to be weakened.

I feel like this whole team has, for the most part, what it takes to be successful. But with that being said, I think we need to address the offensive line, get a change of pace RB and bring in another CB to compete for a starting spot.

I think us not having these parts is a direct reflection of our record. We also have been killed by injuries - and them happening almost all at once, is why it was so hard for this team to gel together. After a few weeks of playing together, we've seen that this line can be serviceable for the remainder of the season. Now those positions must be addressed so that if/when we do have injuries, we have adequate depth to fill in those holes that took so long to do so this year.

Lastly, Jim Zorn said that it takes about 3 years for the team to actually get a grasp of the total offense. We've seen the WR's going in motion, RB's in motion, etc and I think that a lot of that has to do with players getting comfortable in their assignments.

If I were the owner, I would bring in a GM to start the building process, keep Jim Zorn for another year to see if he's able to put this thing together. I don't think that it's fair for an owner to give a guy only two years to prove his worth. Also, the amount of responsibility that he took on was, of course, too much for a lot of experienced head coaches, more-so a first year guy. A qualified GM who comes in here could hire the right people to relieve some of the responsibilities that JZ had to start his HC career but I think at this point, he's done a heck of a job keeping these kids together and competing.

RayNAustin · Post by **RayNAustin** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:06 pm

Paralis wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:Personally, and I said this last year too, Jason needs to play well for more than two or three games. Consistency is the key, and winning. Stats mean NOTHING when your record is 6-15 over a long 21 game stretch.

Again, it's not 2-3 games. It's 7 games. It's also his 7 most recent games, which coincidentally happen to be his 7 best games.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Against Dallas & Philly, both losses, and 4 and 3 weeks ago respectively, his comp % was below his career average, so was his yards per comp, his TDs to ints (2/3) below, and his QB rating in each of those 2 games were 15 points below his average (73 in both games). In the Cowboys game, Zero TDs and the offense scored 6 points. In the Philly game he had 2 TDs but also 2 ints .. and his comp % at 59.5 and yards per comp at 6.2 are weak. I would also add that he was sacked ONCE in each of those two games.

Funny how the facts tend to derail these arguments when closely examined.

Paralis wrote:The point you miss--the point you always miss--is that if you chart Campbell's performance, despite the peaks and valleys, the trend is upward. His play now is better than any of his play in 2008; his first 6 weeks in 2008 were better than any of his play in 2007, and his play in 2007 was better than in 2006.

Funny again ... do you think that it should go unnoticed the DRAMATIC DECLINE from the first half of 2008 and the second half? Or the continuation of that poor play well into the 2009 season all the way to the KC game just 8 weeks ago when his QB rating for that game was a whopping 46.1 and even the uber patient Coach Zorn benched him for poor play? The worst game and the lowest rating of his entire 49 game career, against a hapless, winless, defenseless opponent? My my how the memory works. Nice if you can remember only the good times.

Paralis wrote:It's one thing to be impatient--I was impatient with Campbell last year, wanting him to make that leap faster. It's another to stick your head in the sand and deny that the progression's happening. Over the last 7 weeks, Campbell has played more like a pro bowler than an average QB, and although his true value's probably somewhere in the middle, that should be determined by his play going forward, and not his play from over a year ago.

Like I said ... that 7-6 loss against Dallas was three weeks ago, and my head ain't in the sand. It wasn't last year either, or the year before when a career backup came in and played circles around Campbell.

He's played well the past TWO weeks. But over the course of this entire season, against what could only be described as one of the easiest schedules in recent memory, we lost to previously winless and hopeless teams like the Lions and the Chiefs, while enjoying a pretty decent defense all along.

As a starting QB 2006, he was 2-5. 2007 5-7 2008 8-8 and 2009 4-9 so far. With three games to go, he's still GUARANTEED to have a losing record and the Redskins may wind up with their worst finish since 1994 unless they win one of the final three games.

Face it ... he's played well for 2 weeks. Over these past 7 games you cite, the skins are 2-5, which is the same record they were with Campbell at the helm in 2006 in his first 7 starts.

This may seem like steady improvement to you ... it looks a lot like MORE OF THE SAME to me.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:15 pm

^^^ good post Frank - the foremost thing to me is that this franchise is not playing and acting like a team - actually the idea of just bringing in a GM and giving him the power to make any changes he needs and keeping Zorn but surrounding him with both the coaches and players he needs, could work - I'm not against keeping everybody, I just want this group to consistently be competitive

The only way that we are going to be a competitive team again is for everybody to be on the same page and we do not have that and have not had that for about 10 years