The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Posted: **Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:11 pm**

DEHog wrote:[quote=skinsfan#33]
You don't think the Skins wouldn't have played a different D with a ten point lead vice a 7 point lead. Of course they would have.

How so...I would think they'd play to not allow a TD with only a 7 point lead...what would that have done with a 10 point lead??

If you are serious here then there is no point continuing this conversation. You and I have different levels of football knowledge.

Maybe someone else will take the time to explain to you the difference between how a deffense plays a 10 point lead with less than 2 minute to go and a 7 point lead. I just don't think it would be worth my time.

Posted: **Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:36 pm**

skinsfan#33 wrote:
DEHog wrote:[quote=skinsfan#33]
You don't think the Skins wouldn't have played a different D with a ten point lead vice a 7 point lead. Of course they would have.

How so...I would think they'd play to not allow a TD with only a 7 point lead...what would that have done with a 10 point lead??

If you are serious here then there is no point continuing this conversation. You and I have different levels of football knowledge.

Maybe someone else will take the time to explain to you the difference between how a deffense plays a 10 point lead with less than 2 minute to go and a 7 point lead. I just don't think it would be worth my time.

Well explain it to me then...

Posted: **Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:41 pm**

skinsfan#33 wrote:
DEHog wrote:Dumb luck....some of you need to face the facts
Kareem Moore FUMBLED

No it was just poor officiating! Moore didn't have a pick. Brees didn't throw any INTs. After watching the replays severval times I'm 100% certain the ball hit the ground more than once and I'm convinced the refs new it was an inconpletion and were attempting to spot where the ball should be placed (watch the replay), but for some reason the just diecided to chuck the rule book and give the Saints the TD.

DEHog wrote:We play for a FG when we could have taken a shot to close out the game
SS MISSES a 23 yard FG again coaching

Are you trying to blame the Skins ex-kicker's miss on the coaches or the fact that Zorn went with the odds and went for the win by ensuring that we had an attempt at what was essentially a extra point attempt. Whitch by the way is a roughly 99% success rate.

How if you are saying, giving up an 99% chance of salting the game is bad coaching, then I know your just screwing with us.

DEHog wrote:Mike Sellers FUMBLED again knowing the rule shouldn't we coach to go after the fumble!!

I'm not certain if Sellers was down or not prior to the ball coming out, but what I am certain of is there is NO WAY that was conclusive evidence and the Umpire SHOULD NOT have overturned the ruling on the field.

You didn't mention the fact that after we went up 30-20 in the 4th we recovered the kickoff and the refs gave the ball to the Saints. Still have no idea why or how they got away with doing that!

On topic though. JC had one of his best games as a Skin. He did enough for us not to lose the game (not enough for us to win the game!). But I'm not about to overlook all of JCs short comings off of one game.

He slow in his deliveries, double clutches passes, takes too long to read defenses, and throws a horrendous deep ball.

His deep throws are just awful. They are flat and off target 90% of the time. He had his best day last Sunday throwing the deep ball and he must have thrown 8 or nine passes over 20 yards and only one was what I would say was a good pass. The one to ARE deep down the seam. He threw one to DT that was underthrown, but did draw a PI, he thre another that was underthrown and had it been on target DT scores. Same for one of the two he threw to Moss. The other one he threw to Moss was late and over thrown and again if he had hit in stride it would have been six.

There were a couple of other deep pases that I can't recall right now.

I can't see his down field accuracy ever getting much better and I doubt he will ever be quick at reading Defenses and he will never be clutch.

That said. There won't be that much available in the offseason in the QB tallent pool.

Yea it's the refs fault!!!
You said allot of thing that I never said.
Did Kareem more fumble yes or no??
The coaches played not to lose instead of to win...big difference..six play inside the 10 with no passes..how it that blame the coach for SS miss??

If you want to blame the refs then there no converstion...hope it make you feel better.

Posted: **Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:32 pm**

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
brad7686 wrote:
DEHog wrote:All you have to do is look at this past weeks game...yes Campbell played well but the better NFL QB won the game....so have "it" some don't. It's a shame really I think if he could win one of these close game he'd go over the hump and gain some confidence. Watch the game again and see how Brees hit recievers in stride...and Campbell recievers struggle to make the catch and fall down while doing so at time.

I don't think anyone thinks he is Drew Brees. Also, The Saints winning had little to do with Brees, and much more to do with Redskins Special Teams. What we did see is that Campbell played exponentially better that Tom Brady against the same defense with a much worse supporting cast.

Drew Brees sucked for years too. Nobody had a clue what the Saints were getting and if they say they did you know you're talking to a liar. Maybe we get the same deal from JC only in our case we keep him. That would be cool.

Why do I see a guy with a black suite, skinny 60'ish tie and smoking a cigarette? Because this is the TWILIGHT ZONE.

Look, aside from the outrageously ridiculous jump from having a couple of reasonably decent games this year surrounded by a bunch of completely inept performances, all the way to pro bowls and comparisons with Tom Brady no less, your assertion that Brees "sucked for years too" is as false and phony as a three dollar bill. I suggest when you get the urge to make things up, at least have a remote fact as some foundation.

In Brees third full season after a total of 28 starts, (his first year he played in 1 game) Brees went on to throw 27 TD's, 7 int's, 65.5 % comp, 3154 yards, and a whopping 104.8 QB rating.

The Chargers went from a 4-12 season in 2003 to a 12-4 season in 2004. So Brees had a relatively "Campbellish" 2002-2003 where he threw for a combined 28 TDs in those two years, and then virtually doubled his production in the third year starting. That is what YOU CALL "sucked for years"? Whatever.

Even this virtuoso performance against the Chargers in which he eclipsed his career highs in some categories, he also threw a bad pick at clutch time, and on two long gainers earlier in the game, under thrown passes prevented what would have been 2 TDs as each time the receiver had gained several steps on their defender only to have to wait on the ball, allowing the defender to recover and make a tackle.

Several short easy passes were made difficult catches from poor accuracy, and all three TD's were short dump offs in which the receivers made the play.

Call me crazy ... but I think it's slightly premature to start polishing up the brass for Canton ... or comparing Campbell to the likes of Tom Brady or Drew Brees, except to illustrate what Jason never was and never will be ... a top tier star in the NFL.

Pro Bowl? Pro Bowl ??? I just hope we can win a football game some time this year!!

Posted: **Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:45 pm**

Yuo left out a dropped pick 6

Posted: **Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:18 pm**

DEHog wrote:Did Kareem more fumble yes or no??

No, he never intercepted the ball so he never had the ball to fumble!

DEHog wrote:The coaches played not to lose instead of to win...big difference..six play inside the 10 with no passes..how it that blame the coach for SS miss??

The coaches did play to win. They ran the ball to run time off the clock and then kick the game winning FG. They had a 99% chance of success. SS kicks the FG they win and kicks from that range have a 99% success rate.

DEHog wrote:If you want to blame the refs then there no converstion...hope it make you feel better.

I blame SS first.
I blame LL second.
The refs third (and no it doesn't make me feel better, but it doesn't absolve them of their errors to not blame them!)

The coaches don't make my top ten!

Posted: **Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:28 pm**

DEHog wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:
DEHog wrote:[quote=skinsfan#33]
You don't think the Skins wouldn't have played a different D with a ten point lead vice a 7 point lead. Of course they would have.

How so...I would think they'd play to not allow a TD with only a 7 point lead...what would that have done with a 10 point lead??

If you are serious here then there is no point continuing this conversation. You and I have different levels of football knowledge.

Maybe someone else will take the time to explain to you the difference between how a deffense plays a 10 point lead with less than 2 minute to go and a 7 point lead. I just don't think it would be worth my time.

Well explain it to me then...

Still don't think it is worth my time, but here I go.

With a two score lead, under two minutes and the Saints with no time outs the defense doesn't care if they give up a TD, they just want to milk almost or all of the time off of the clock. So they would have no reason to bite on double moves in the middle of the field. They would have wanted Breese to complete that pass because it would have milked a lot of time off of the clock.

If you only have a 7 point lead, you don't want to give up a 20 yard curl because while it would have taken the clock below the 1 minute mark, but put the Saints in striking distance. That said, LL first priority had to be not letting anyone get deeper than him, but he would never have bitten on that double move with a 10 point lead because the Saints wouldn't have been running anything to the middle in that situation.

Posted: **Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:43 pm**

DEHog wrote:Did Kareem more fumble yes or no??

No, he never intercepted the ball so he never had the ball to fumble!

What do I say to that?? I just looked at the stats and it says Mooe had a INT and a fumble??

DEHog wrote:The coaches played not to lose instead of to win...big difference..six play inside the 10 with no passes..how it that blame the coach for SS miss??

The coaches did play to win. They ran the ball to run time off the clock and then kick the game winning FG. They had a 99% chance of success. SS kicks the FG they win and kicks from that range have a 99% success rate.

The third down run took no time off the clock..why not thow. They played not to lose because people like you don't citicize that decision as much as if they thows a pic there...How did the Skins score their three TD's??

DEHog wrote:If you want to blame the refs then there no converstion...hope it make you feel better.

I

blame SS first.
I blame LL second.
The refs third (and no it doesn't make me feel better, but it doesn't absolve them of their errors to not blame them!)

Here's a question for you if I gave you choice of mistakes...one leaves you with a 7 point lead the other leaves you tied...which one you taken??
As for the refs...I thought the biggest mistake they made was blwing the whistle on the Sellers fumble...after learning the rule...they really did us a favor...because the league want the refs to let the play play out and had they done that IMO McCallister would have score on the play and the fumble surely wouldn't have been overturned when you take into account they overturned it not being a fumble. I do think the side view shows he fumbled.
ANother question what do you think the coaches said to the player Monday when they watched the film...don't worry about that play Mike the refs were wrong :roll:

The coaches don't make my top ten!

That's your choice, don't you think the double move is a coaching issue...I mean they should have been repping that all week and maybe they did, but it didn't look like it on Sunday.
I don't know if you've ever coached (and by no means do I discount your opinion if you haven't) but I do and I watch the game from a coaching (not a fan ) point of view. The Skins where calling a great game, passes on first down, crossing routes it had them in and winning the game. Then they decidided to play not to lose by playing as you say... the percentages and look at the resulte. The reality of the three play before the missed FG is the Skins could have thrown on any down and they still could have run the clock down to the 2 min warning...IMO a run on first than a pass on second would have surprised the Saints and l would have loved my chances with a two TD lead at that point...because as strange as it sounds I wasn't as ease with a 10 point lead.

Posted: **Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:59 pm**

Jason has always been a decent QB...not a great one, but decent.

I'll admit I haven't read every post in this thread, but I did see someone point out that Campbell had a better game versus the Saints than Tom Brady.

I also saw that someone else pointed out that when the game is on the line...Campbell is not your guy. (paraphrasing of course)

When the team needs one more score, he nearly always throws a pick. It's like he's the Anti-Elway.

The defense is the same way. They play great until they have to make one more stop...and then they blow it and give up a touchdown. All they had to do was keep the Saints out of the end-zone...and they choked.

There were two occasions where playcalling was suspect towards the end of the game, as we should have been thinking end-zone instead of first-down of field goal. Suisham demonstrated why perfectly.

This should have been "no contest" a win for the Saints. I had to sit and listen through the pregame about Gregg Williams being a "defensive genius" and y'know what? He couldn't stop Jason-freakin'-Campbell, a running-back nobody's ever heard of and a bunch of no-name rookie recievers with a patchwork offensive line.

I wasn't impressed when Williams was here...I remain unimpressed now that he's there. People keep referring to him as a "genius" but I'm not seeing it. Jacksonville's defense actually got worse after his arrival.

I see this game versus the Saints as an anomaly. The team played great, and it sucks they lost, but there are still a lot of needs to be addressed, especially on offense.

Posted: **Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:34 am**

RayNAustin wrote:
kaz wrote:Drew Brees sucked for years too. Nobody had a clue what the Saints were getting and if they say they did you know you're talking to a liar. Maybe we get the same deal from JC only in our case we keep him. That would be cool.

Why do I see a guy with a black suite, skinny 60'ish tie and smoking a cigarette? Because this is the TWILIGHT ZONE.

Look, aside from the outrageously ridiculous jump from having a couple of reasonably decent games this year surrounded by a bunch of completely inept performances, all the way to pro bowls and comparisons with Tom Brady no less, your assertion that Brees "sucked for years too" is as false and phony as a three dollar bill. I suggest when you get the urge to make things up, at least have a remote fact as some foundation.

In Brees third full season after a total of 28 starts, (his first year he played in 1 game) Brees went on to throw 27 TD's, 7 int's, 65.5 % comp, 3154 yards, and a whopping 104.8 QB rating.

The Chargers went from a 4-12 season in 2003 to a 12-4 season in 2004. So Brees had a relatively "Campbellish" 2002-2003 where he threw for a combined 28 TDs in those two years, and then virtually doubled his production in the third year starting. That is what YOU CALL "sucked for years"? Whatever.

Even this virtuoso performance against the Chargers in which he eclipsed his career highs in some categories, he also threw a bad pick at clutch time, and on two long gainers earlier in the game, under thrown passes prevented what would have been 2 TDs as each time the receiver had gained several steps on their defender only to have to wait on the ball, allowing the defender to recover and make a tackle.

Several short easy passes were made difficult catches from poor accuracy, and all three TD's were short dump offs in which the receivers made the play.

Call me crazy ... but I think it's slightly premature to start polishing up the brass for Canton ... or comparing Campbell to the likes of Tom Brady or Drew Brees, except to illustrate what Jason never was and never will be ... a top tier star in the NFL.

Pro Bowl? Pro Bowl ??? I just hope we can win a football game some time this year!!

I agree. JC has some skills but isn't starting caliber material. Ray, dude, this whole forum was in fun, didn't the terms from our debate clue you in I was FOS on this forum? I wanted you to call me out. I was going to concede you hadn't fallen for it, but you did! LOL.

Deep down in your soul, you really believe we are JC's love slaves, don't you?

The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Mea Culpa, JC is coming around