The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

What's interesting is that with Jason Campbell in 2007-2008 as our starting QB our offense has scored 59 TD'S. 33 in his first year and 26 in his second year. This year our offense has scored 1 TD in two games and that was against a prevent defense. We are averaging about 3.5 points were game and at this rate we will would have scored 56 points for the whole year on the offense side of the ball. Tell me what defense is going to be able to hold a team to 48 points in a whole season?

MEZZSKIN wrote:like i said I challenge people to SHOW ME.
..what Top 12 or 10 offense over the last 3 years had a passing game this bad/IMPOTENT from this range 21-49yds
SHOW ME ONE!!!!

What you're missing is that it's you who are holding out that scoring from 20-49 is an important stat. I'm not making any assertion regarding a top 12 or top 10 offense or whatever. I'm just curious as to WHY you think this is a solid indicator, and what proof you have that it's worth anything.

As for us being a low-scoring team, and Campbell not throwing a heck of a lot of TDs....well yeah, I totally agree with you. If that's what you're trying to show with this statistics, you could have more easily said...Campbell threw for 13 TDs last year. That alone is enough to demonstrate how pathetic this passing game is...

PulpExposure wrote:

MEZZSKIN wrote:[Pulp.....NO TEAM can just accumulate points via red zone pts ...its a recipe for disaster
this yard range is absolutely critical...its a 30 window of opportunity within enemy territory....

Okay, that's what you believe. And it's probably true. But I'd like to see some stats that show that this is true. Not just that you think that it's true.

And that you're asserting that TDs thrown in the opponent's 20-49 yard lines are critical, but somehow 18 yard TD passes (like the one to ey in the Giants game), or 50 yard TD passes (like the one to Moss mentioned above), somehow aren't as critical.

I just think you're cherry picking stats a bit here.

I'm just not sure why TDs thrown in the opponent's 20-49 yard line is so critical. Why are they more critical than TDs thrown at the 50 yard line, or the 15-45 yard line, etc.?

I don't think stats covering 50 in to the 20 is exactly cherry picking. That's just the scoring area outside of the red zone, and it's being compared to EVERYONE else in the NFL.

IF you don't get the significance, all you have to do is look at what the Redskins did inside the red zone last week to recognize the value of TD passes from outside it.

I know everybody talks about the drops last week, but had ARE not had to fly through the air to snag that high ball inside the 10, he could have scored on that play. And the one to Kelly that was under thrown could have been 7.

The issue is that there's a lot more room to work ... room to run routs ... and to make plays in that 49-20 area. Inside the 20, the field is very compact and easier to defend.

And I don't think that such can be ignored when considering the likely reasons for being 26th in the NFL in scoring with Campbell as the starter.

This season alone, the Cowboys, Giants, and Eagles have scored more than twice as many points as the Redskins.

And contrary to the prognostications of a "much improved" Jason Campbell this year, things look eerily similar to the pathetic second half of last year.

Welcome to the new Jason Campbell ... same as the old Jason Campbell.

All I'm trying to say is
He Threw 13 tds last year
11 from the Red Zone which is not good and needs improvement

But his production from everywhere else ---particulary (he rest of ENEMY TERRITORY..were any good Offense DEMANDS PRODUCTION
He's Shown a complete lack of ability to score 170+ attempts and NADA---ZILCH

Herein lies his Biggest defiency
Hands down and bar none

And if anyone wants to see the difference between Jason Campbell and Jay Cutler ... here's Cutler without Brandon Marshall.

And this is against the Steelers. Campbell would not make this play. The best that he'd do is throw it away ... or turn and roll left and get sacked (with blocking to be blamed afterward)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d ... nfirm=true

RayNAustin wrote:And if anyone wants to see the difference between Jason Campbell and Jay Cutler ... here's Cutler without Brandon Marshall.

And this is against the Steelers. Campbell would not make this play. The best that he'd do is throw it away ... or turn and roll left and get sacked (with blocking to be blamed afterward)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d ... nfirm=true

And you could just as easily post video of Cutlers 4 picks in week one. Campbell wouldn't make those plays either...Cherry picking one good or bad play makes no sense.

MEZZSKIN wrote:

Campbell is IMPOTENT...AND WORST IN THE NFL -

I'm not sure what Viagra has to do with playing QB, but statements like this undermine your whole argument. So Jamarcus Russell has more TD's than Campbell in this range, would you take him over Campbell? How about Kerry Collins? Brady Quinn? There are better QB's than Campbell, but also worse. TD's in this range is not the end all be all of quarterback play.

I'm not trying to make sexual conotations ...LOL I'm trying explain Jc's Ability from this range and that's the word that best describes it

Sadly

NEVER ONCE DID I see say I would take those Qb's over JC
So ur creating a thought process that I did NOT create

Let's stick the numbers
Can u combat
304 attempts from 21-49yd line
ONE TOUCHDOWN

What were talking about here
Is how much this plays into JC's iniabiltu to be pRoductive atQB
And how it reflects in our overall scoring

My arguement is ....ITS a HUGE FACTOR

A lot people agree with me and appreciate what I brought to table in terms of factual statistics

Others will create sidebars and excuses

The others QB's factor into the equation in order to create an APPLE TO APPLE comparison
No other reason

To Prove others have played with same variances and produced

JC is JUST THE WORST at it.

MEZZSKIN wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:Sorry. Your stats are inconclusive. You haven't considered the following:

Qualiity of the receivers.
Quality of the OL in regard to both pass protection and run threat.
Dropped passes that would have demonstrated vastly different stats.
A comparison between Campbell's record and the record of the running game, which is the central issue, particularly this season.

Crazy, they become factored in when I compare him to his peers...ALL QBS face the very same list of variances you just mentioned. Unless your arguement is we have the worst RECEIVERS--OLINE -MOST DROPPED PASSES AND WORST RUNNING GAME in the NFL..We all agree thats not the case given our overall record of 18-16 from 2007 till now



Other QB's have had bad oline play(uh big ben) Poor quality of receivers (check Eli's 2009 band) and dropped passes

but NO QB is as bad as Campbell within this 30 yard range Its not even bad...ITS IMPOTENT

yes I think Zorn's play calling leave alot on table agreed....but lets agree on one thing---and i can safely say this 304 pass attempts later

HE DOESNT MAKE PLAYS FROM THIS CRITICAL DISTANCE...which is definitely one of the reasons why were a low scoring team

I hope to hell he throws 5 TD'S this week and start ramping things up..I do not want Todd as the qb..JC is our guy...I get it.....But lets not blindly dismiss OVERWHEMING evidence in our defiencies with him as our QB

I'm just not sure we don't have one of the worse running games and OL in the NFL. And I do think that ARE and Moss for the last few years have been among the least likely to score. Campbell can pass from short to mid range without being stomped, and that's about it. If you want a quick look and how terrible our running game is, take a look as Portis' stats before and after joining the skins.

Our management owes Portis an apology for dimming down his career. The irony is that Portis has been brilliant enough to turn in decent stats and obscure the fact that his typical scoring play has been the result of broken tackles and general genius rather than OL play. Well, now it's all over. Portis has been beaten down and will need a huge number of carries
to gain fewer and fewer yards.

In short, we can't pass long because (mostly) of the OL, and now have to pass because we can't run unless the pass threat is present and obvious. which is also at bottom an OL problem (compounded by inept receivers in relation to getting open quickly enough to cancel OL problems).

I'm one who is presently defending Campbell but would like to see Collins at QB, not because he is better than Campbell generally but because he gets the ball out much quicker than Campbell does, which is presently our only option. Collins' presence also draws the D backfield in. which makes the success of the running game even more inprobable.

I want the running game virtually shut down and I want the long ball kept on a back, back burner. We can't do either, so I want both of them taken off the table, where the moron Zorn can't find them. All we can do is pass short to mid range, and I want our team to do that almost exclusively-- ball control by the passing game to the end zone.

We have receivers uniquely qualified to do that, as both Campbell and Collins have helped prove. What we actually should learn from the Ram game is that our short game is devilishly difficult to defend and that we should rely on it and make it our own. Ironically, if the short passing game is more or less incessant, Moss might catch somebody coming up to stop one of his six yarders and end up in the end zone unmolested. Or Portis might occasionally find all the linebackers covering receivers when he breaks for a hole.

We need to flat out reverse the way football is usually played. Our occasional home run shots should be running plays showing pass. For us, conservative play should consist of ball control passes; wild shots at the goal line from afar should mean Portis sneaking through the cracks of a spread offense. We have the personnel necessary to do that, and nothing else.

SnyderSucks wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:And if anyone wants to see the difference between Jason Campbell and Jay Cutler ... here's Cutler without Brandon Marshall.

And this is against the Steelers. Campbell would not make this play. The best that he'd do is throw it away ... or turn and roll left and get sacked (with blocking to be blamed afterward)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d ... nfirm=true

And you could just as easily post video of Cutlers 4 picks in week one. Campbell wouldn't make those plays either...Cherry picking one good or bad play makes no sense.

Did you watch the game with Jay Cutler and those 4 picks? Last I recalled 3 out of 4 picks I heard Chris Collingsworth say that it was on the receiver not on Cutler. And in two games I have seen receivers drop more then 5 balls that were catchable

jeremyroyce wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:And if anyone wants to see the difference between Jason Campbell and Jay Cutler ... here's Cutler without Brandon Marshall.

And this is against the Steelers. Campbell would not make this play. The best that he'd do is throw it away ... or turn and roll left and get sacked (with blocking to be blamed afterward)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d ... nfirm=true

And you could just as easily post video of Cutlers 4 picks in week one. Campbell wouldn't make those plays either...Cherry picking one good or bad play makes no sense.

Did you watch the game with Jay Cutler and those 4 picks? Last I recalled 3 out of 4 picks I heard Chris Collingsworth say that it was on the receiver not on Cutler. And in two games I have seen receivers drop more then 5 balls that were catchable

First, it was an example. Secondly, we were not talking about picks. We're talking TDs. Jason already knows how to throw picks.

And if you are suggesting that Cutler and his picks would be a down grade from Campbell ... well ... I can't help you with that.

And let's give Cutler the same consideration you would give Campbell ... it's a new system ... new receivers ... new team ... give him time ... wait ... it only took Jay 1 game ... not three years.

But the real point is the play itself as a classic example: red zone, against a top defense ... Cutler, with two Steeler defenders blitzing unblocked, he was able to make that play for a TD, and didn't even take a big hit.

Campbell, in a similar situation, as has happened so many times, gets crushed or throws the ball away ... and everyone says "well, Jason didn't have a chance ... nobody blocked the blitz ... no QB could have done anything". Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. Good QBs make those kinds of plays ... bad QBs don't. And that is the difference.

Do you think the Bears beat the Steelers without Cutler? No Way. Cutler was 27 for 38, 236 yards and 2 TDs. Campbell, by comparison against the Steelers last year was 24 of 43 for 206 yards ZERO TDs. Completions were close, yards were close, points NOT CLOSE.

Same old story ... stats don't look all that bad, but he CAN'T SCORE. He's like a golfer who can drive the ball 325 yards, and can't putt. You drive for show, and putt for dough.

jeremyroyce wrote:

Manchester_Redskin wrote:Statistics in the NFL make me laugh sometimes, a QB can get credited for an 80yard TD even if he only through the ball a couple of yards and the receiver ran in the other 78..

At the moment a lot of teams are having QB issues (just look at kansas) , its early season and the players are still rusty.

Let me give you a statistic and let's see if you laugh here. Now, I don't have a link but I just got done watching NFL Total Access Thursday show and Rod Woodson said that since Jason Campbell has taken over as the starting QB we are ranked 26th in scoring.

last years QB rating

Campbell - 84.3
Favre - 81.0
Flacco - 80.3
Roeths..... - 80.1

Stats mean nothing

Manchester_Redskin wrote:

jeremyroyce wrote:

Manchester_Redskin wrote:Statistics in the NFL make me laugh sometimes, a QB can get credited for an 80yard TD even if he only through the ball a couple of yards and the receiver ran in the other 78..

At the moment a lot of teams are having QB issues (just look at kansas) , its early season and the players are still rusty.

Let me give you a statistic and let's see if you laugh here. Now, I don't have a link but I just got done watching NFL Total Access Thursday show and Rod Woodson said that since Jason Campbell has taken over as the starting QB we are ranked 26th in scoring.

last years QB rating

Campbell - 84.3
Favre - 81.0
Flacco - 80.3
Roeths..... - 80.1

Stats mean nothing

Ridiculous statement when you're talking about SCORING stats. That is the ONLY stat that means EVERYTHING.

The only stat that matters is the W - L one

People are calling Campbell for being rubbish and use stats to back up the argument, I just wanted to show that stats are not worth the paper they are written on.

Scoring points is the job of the offense, and the QB. Yards, completions, first downs, QB ratings, rushing yards ... all that means nothing if you don't score points. So I agree that those stats mean very little when the goal is scoring points.

Defense's job is to prevent points. And the Redskins do a decent job of it.

The combination will dictate what the Win-Loss column shows.

And I agree, at the end of the year, the only stat that counts is the Win-Loss stat, but last week's win was really not a win at all. The Rams just lost more than the Redskins did. There was no real winner in that stinker of a game.

In reality, the Rams offense statistically was worse than the REdskins offense. But in reality, the Redskin offense was actually worse. The Rams offense had the Redskin defense to contend with, while the Redskins had the Rams defense.

The sad truth is that right now at least, the Redskin offense is the worst in the NFL ... if we're going to be completely honest.

RayNAustin wrote:The sad truth is that right now at least, the Redskin offense is the worst in the NFL ... if we're going to be completely honest.

How do you arrive at that conclusion? Granted, being second last in total points scored is not a point in their favor. But the team is 19th in yards per game, 15th in yards per play, 8th in third down conversions, they're the 6th least penalized offense, they're 18th in first downs per game and they're 19th in time of possession. I do not -- for a second -- believe this offense is without some serious flaws and I know playing the "hey, we're not worst" game is somewhat depressing but the fact is, they simply are not. Not even close. And, recognizing that it sinks pretty much everything I just wrote, we're talking about TWO games so coming to any conclusion at this point is kind of silly.

PS If Devin Thomas and Mike Sellers had caught those TD passes, the Skins go from second last in scoring to 19th. Again, not spectacular but maybe not as bad as it's being made out to be.

PS If Devin Thomas and Mike Sellers had caught those TD passes, the Skins go from second last in scoring to 19th. Again, not spectacular but maybe not as bad as it's being made out to be.

Correct!! And we aren't having this conversation!!

MEZZSKIN wrote:NEVER ONCE DID I see say I would take those Qb's over JC
So ur creating a thought process that I did NOT create

Let's stick the numbers
Can u combat
304 attempts from 21-49yd line
ONE TOUCHDOWN

What were talking about here
Is how much this plays into JC's iniabiltu to be pRoductive atQB
And how it reflects in our overall scoring

My arguement is ....ITS a HUGE FACTOR

A lot people agree with me and appreciate what I brought to table in terms of factual statistics

Others will create sidebars and excuses

The others QB's factor into the equation in order to create an APPLE TO APPLE comparison
No other reason

To Prove others have played with same variances and produced

JC is JUST THE WORST at it.

In case you time traveled here from 1990, using all caps is considered shouting and rude, generally....

I was simply trying to point out that there is more involved in evaluating QB play than going through the stats and cherry picking one arbitrary stat and trying to extrapolate it to the entire game. Here, I'll show you:

{Sarcasm}

Aside from the score, we all know that turnover differential is the best indicator of who wins a game. Teams that don't turnover the ball win, and teams that turnover the ball lose. Therefore, the best QB's in the game don't throw intereceptions.

Last season, Campbell threw only 8 interceptions. It was the FEWEST IN THE NFL. This season, through two games, he has one interception. HE IS ON PACE FOR ONLY 8 INTERCEPTIONS AGAIN.

Tom Brady through 12 interceptions in his last full season. Since turnovers are the number one stat indicating winning and losing, CAMPBELL IS THE BEST IN THE NFL AND BETTER THAN TOM BRADY!!!!!!"

{sarcasm}

Clearly, an analysis like this is flawed because there are other factors to consider, like that Brady threw 50 touchdowns in 2007.

If you want to look at stats, look at stats, but don't make hyperbolic statements based on extremely narrow stats. The stats so far say that Campbell is markedly better in completion percentage, yards, average, and QB rating than last season. Don't give me the complaint about playing the rams. He won't play a defense as good as the Giants every week either, and his numbers were better across the board against the Giants than in the Rams game. I think most would agree that Campbell needs to improve, and the early returns show that he is improving.

RayNAustin wrote:

jeremyroyce wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:And if anyone wants to see the difference between Jason Campbell and Jay Cutler ... here's Cutler without Brandon Marshall.

And this is against the Steelers. Campbell would not make this play. The best that he'd do is throw it away ... or turn and roll left and get sacked (with blocking to be blamed afterward)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d ... nfirm=true

And you could just as easily post video of Cutlers 4 picks in week one. Campbell wouldn't make those plays either...Cherry picking one good or bad play makes no sense.

Did you watch the game with Jay Cutler and those 4 picks? Last I recalled 3 out of 4 picks I heard Chris Collingsworth say that it was on the receiver not on Cutler. And in two games I have seen receivers drop more then 5 balls that were catchable

First, it was an example. Secondly, we were not talking about picks. We're talking TDs. Jason already knows how to throw picks.

And if you are suggesting that Cutler and his picks would be a down grade from Campbell ... well ... I can't help you with that.

And let's give Cutler the same consideration you would give Campbell ... it's a new system ... new receivers ... new team ... give him time ... wait ... it only took Jay 1 game ... not three years.

But the real point is the play itself as a classic example: red zone, against a top defense ... Cutler, with two Steeler defenders blitzing unblocked, he was able to make that play for a TD, and didn't even take a big hit.

Campbell, in a similar situation, as has happened so many times, gets crushed or throws the ball away ... and everyone says "well, Jason didn't have a chance ... nobody blocked the blitz ... no QB could have done anything". Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. Good QBs make those kinds of plays ... bad QBs don't. And that is the difference.

Do you think the Bears beat the Steelers without Cutler? No Way. Cutler was 27 for 38, 236 yards and 2 TDs. Campbell, by comparison against the Steelers last year was 24 of 43 for 206 yards ZERO TDs. Completions were close, yards were close, points NOT CLOSE.

Same old story ... stats don't look all that bad, but he CAN'T SCORE. He's like a golfer who can drive the ball 325 yards, and can't putt. You drive for show, and putt for dough.

I did watch the game, and Cutler was terrible. Part of Cutlers game is that he throws terrible interceptions.

You argument, looking at an entire game or season makes more sense. Anyone can pick out one play and say it wasn't good. And I love how it's okay to make "excuses" for Cutlers four interceptions, but when Campbell has two td passes dropped, it's just part of the game that happens to everyone and is not a mitigating factor. If those two guys could catch, Campbell would be on pace for 24 TD's and 8 Int's and no one would be complaining. The great Cutler threw 25 TD's and 18 interceptions last season...

You can line-up the stats any way you like.

The truth is Campbell has not played great football. He has decent stats, but almost never makes big plays, the ones that generally change the whole outcome of the game in our favor. You need these in the NFL. Practically every fan of this team knows this, and also every D-coordinator in the league.

Mezzskin is just proving the inability of JC to score with some really specific numbers. And he has a point.

Fios wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:The sad truth is that right now at least, the Redskin offense is the worst in the NFL ... if we're going to be completely honest.

How do you arrive at that conclusion? Granted, being second last in total points scored is not a point in their favor. But the team is 19th in yards per game, 15th in yards per play, 8th in third down conversions, they're the 6th least penalized offense, they're 18th in first downs per game and they're 19th in time of possession. I do not -- for a second -- believe this offense is without some serious flaws and I know playing the "hey, we're not worst" game is somewhat depressing but the fact is, they simply are not. Not even close. And, recognizing that it sinks pretty much everything I just wrote, we're talking about TWO games so coming to any conclusion at this point is kind of silly.

PS If Devin Thomas and Mike Sellers had caught those TD passes, the Skins go from second last in scoring to 19th. Again, not spectacular but maybe not as bad as it's being made out to be.

This is why I don't find most of Ray's arguments compelling. It's one thing to make an argument; it's another to ignore anything that might speak to the contrary. His hyperbole tells me that he's got no balance in what he says.

Fios wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:The sad truth is that right now at least, the Redskin offense is the worst in the NFL ... if we're going to be completely honest.

How do you arrive at that conclusion? Granted, being second last in total points scored is not a point in their favor. But the team is 19th in yards per game, 15th in yards per play, 8th in third down conversions, they're the 6th least penalized offense, they're 18th in first downs per game and they're 19th in time of possession. I do not -- for a second -- believe this offense is without some serious flaws and I know playing the "hey, we're not worst" game is somewhat depressing but the fact is, they simply are not. Not even close. And, recognizing that it sinks pretty much everything I just wrote, we're talking about TWO games so coming to any conclusion at this point is kind of silly.

PS If Devin Thomas and Mike Sellers had caught those TD passes, the Skins go from second last in scoring to 19th. Again, not spectacular but maybe not as bad as it's being made out to be.

You know that old saying "if grandma had balls ...she'd be your grandpa" And those two plays prevented the offense from scoring a single TD? I tell you this, when you run 60 plays in a game, there are many more than 2 opportunities to score.

My rationale for saying the Redskin offense is the worst, is based on the fact that the offense is next to last in points. And the only team under them are the Rams offense that we just played the AT HOME, and only out scored them by 2 points ... I'd say we're worse than the Rams offense UNLESS you believe that the Rams defense is at the level of the Redskin defense? (I don't think anyone would agree with that) This is a direct comparison, so either the Rams defense is pretty close to the Redskin defense, or our offense is worse than theirs. It's one or the other. Now, that doesn't mean that this can't change ... but right now, after 2 games, the Redskin offense is the worst. Period.

And this isn't anything new. The SAME SITUATION that we all witnessed during the final 9-10 games in 2008. We finished the last 10 games last year averaging 11-12 points? So you tell me what's different?

Look, our defense has been solid, and I'd say most assuredly that they are head and shoulders better than the Rams defense. To be blunt, the Rams defense is actually one of the worst ... and we couldn't score a TD. That we were stymied and kept from scoring a TD by THAT defense is pathetic ... drops or no drops ... pathetic.

The 2 drops are not reasons, just more excuses. On those first 4 trips inside the red zone, there were a lot more plays than those two plays from which the Redskins could have scored. And MANY more plays outside of that red zone from which we RARELY seem to score .... at least according to the statistical record outside the 20 yard line.

Forget Campbell's yards, and completion % ALREADY. This offense has had trouble scoring points with two different offensive systems and two different coaches. The common denominator here is the QB ... Proof? Because WE ALREADY KNOW what happened in 2007 when there was a change at QB. We went from ZERO points in the first 28 minutes of the Chicago game to 24 points in the other 32 minutes ... and the ONLY difference was the QB. This isn't speculation. This is fact.

And this fact has been denied so often, and so many excuses made that common sense is being ignored.

If you had a teenager who wrecked the family car 8 times in two years, exactly when would you disregard bad luck and unfortunate circumstances and take the keys away? The argument that this teenager drove the car 100 times ... so his percentage was 92 safe trips and only 8 bad ones is the same logic being used to defend Campbell.

Irn-Bru wrote:

Fios wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:The sad truth is that right now at least, the Redskin offense is the worst in the NFL ... if we're going to be completely honest.

How do you arrive at that conclusion? Granted, being second last in total points scored is not a point in their favor. But the team is 19th in yards per game, 15th in yards per play, 8th in third down conversions, they're the 6th least penalized offense, they're 18th in first downs per game and they're 19th in time of possession. I do not -- for a second -- believe this offense is without some serious flaws and I know playing the "hey, we're not worst" game is somewhat depressing but the fact is, they simply are not. Not even close. And, recognizing that it sinks pretty much everything I just wrote, we're talking about TWO games so coming to any conclusion at this point is kind of silly.

PS If Devin Thomas and Mike Sellers had caught those TD passes, the Skins go from second last in scoring to 19th. Again, not spectacular but maybe not as bad as it's being made out to be.

This is why I don't find most of Ray's arguments compelling. It's one thing to make an argument; it's another to ignore anything that might speak to the contrary. His hyperbole tells me that he's got no balance in what he says.

Do you even know what "hyperbole" means? I'm not exaggerating anything, and my statements are to be taken literally. Just plain honest facts, contrary to the "hyperbole" of those who continue to exaggerate Campbell's successes ... his progress ... his improvement ... etc.

The list of excuses made for Campbell's lack of success would be far better defined as hyperbole.

So the Redskins COULD have scored 17 points instead of 9 IF those other bums didn't drop two passes, ruining an another solid performance by Jason?

Even without the drops, 17 points against one of the worst ... if not the worst defenses in the league would not be cause for celebration. It would be mediocre, at best .. which seems to be just fine and dandy with some Redskin fans.

Sorry, I'm just not one of them. And I'm not very fond of excuses either.

RayNAustin wrote:Scoring points is the job of the offense, and the QB. Yards, completions, first downs, QB ratings, rushing yards ... all that means nothing if you don't score points. So I agree that those stats mean very little when the goal is scoring points.

Defense's job is to prevent points. And the Redskins do a decent job of it.

The combination will dictate what the Win-Loss column shows.

And I agree, at the end of the year, the only stat that counts is the Win-Loss stat, but last week's win was really not a win at all. The Rams just lost more than the Redskins did. There was no real winner in that stinker of a game.

In reality, the Rams offense statistically was worse than the REdskins offense. But in reality, the Redskin offense was actually worse. The Rams offense had the Redskin defense to contend with, while the Redskins had the Rams defense.

The sad truth is that right now at least, the Redskin offense is the worst in the NFL ... if we're going to be completely honest.

By your own standards, then, the lack of touchdowns is the problem of the whole offense and the coach. It's absurd to single out Campbell or recite stats, or make QB comparisons while ignoring the fact that all offenses are simply not equal. To fairly compare Campbell to another quarterback is blatantly impossible, unless you can show that the other quarterback plays with an equally bad supporting cast and for an equally bad coach.

That is what is so outlandishly nuts about this whole discussion. TD's are the result of a team's performance and not necessarily reflective of a quarterback's performance. The best tool we have for judging a quarterback individual performance is his rating, and Campbell is doing just fine in that regard. To think that any quarterback can compensate for an inept combination of inept receivers and inept OL and inept play calling shows an absolute lact of understanding of the game.

Here's my off the cuff rating of the Redskin's offense, player by player. I may be stupid and without basis of comparison, but why not be? Everyone else is making up their own criteria. Why can't I?

Best players first, worse last: ey, Portis, Samuels, Campbell, Sellers ARE, Dockery, Moss, Rabach, Heyer, Thomas' replacement.

Here's an added point: None of the last four should be in a starting unit of an NFL team that hopes to be a contender. ARE and Dockery are questionable. If you wish to be upset by something, be upset that the offense has been allowed to sink to its present level.