The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

markshark84 wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:

markshark84 wrote:
JC only played well for a couple games in the beginning of last year -- in his career. Other than that he has been a disappointment. It's time to put cut the cord and move on.

Move on to what? It's one game, and further, we don't have too many other options, so might as well stay with him. Zorn has no other choice.

I agree it is early, but I mean to move on in the draft next year. We have been treading water for almost half a decade with JC.

Then again, the only other current roster option we have got us to the playoffs last time he played.

So, let me make sure I read this correct. You want to mail in the rest of the season (15 games to play) and start thinking about the draft next year?

I think that NY won the game based on a few plays. That is what the game was based off of, a few plays. NY made all the plays and WE did not.

There are a lot of games left. JC will go back to the drawing board and playing against one of the better D-lines in the NFL, there will be a lot for this team to learn from. We play St. Louis next week and I feel very confident that we will show better next week with a win.

Hoss wrote:BRD, welcome back and don't be a damn stranger.

Thanks, brother. Good to be back. I missed you boys.

welcome back BRD - hopefully this weekend's game will have us all looking forward again - there are 15 games to be played and I would find it hard to believe the players and coaches don't want to play and coach a lot better than what we saw today


we are not that bad a team

SkinsJock wrote:welcome back BRD - hopefully this weekend's game will have us all looking forward again - there are 15 games to be played and I would find it hard to believe the players and coaches don't want to play and coach a lot better than what we saw today


we are not that bad a team

Considering what they're being paid, they sure as should!

frankcal20 wrote:I think that NY won the game based on a few plays. That is what the game was based off of, a few plays. NY made all the plays and WE did not.

There are a lot of games left. JC will go back to the drawing board and playing against one of the better D-lines in the NFL, there will be a lot for this team to learn from. We play St. Louis next week and I feel very confident that we will show better next week with a win.

At what point does he finally learn?

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Zorn - Playcalling is still horrible. 2nd play of the game is one example. Plays with short WR's in the redzone and excluding our TALL WR's is inexcusable.

Maybe I'm an idiot, but these posts do not make any sense to me. I'm truely sorry for not understanding it, but how can you and others truely know that the playcalling was horrible? The reason I question these playcalling posts is that:

A: What do you know? What I mean by that is not a jab at you, I truely can't seem to figure out what qualifies you to suggest that...especially when most talk show hosts tonight do not site that as a problem at all in today's game. What do you know that experts (who are at the game) are failing to see?
B: Do you have access to a coaches cam so you can see the entire field? Meaning, how do you know that it's not the QB's fault. Maybe he's not seeing an open receiver. I assume you are watching the game at home on the broadcast, and those are pretty strong accusations for you to make with an extremely limited view of the game.
C: The example that you mention was hardly a poor playcall. In fact, I think most (who know) would agree that it was a very good playcall that had extremely poor execution. There is unlimited upside with a trick play like that on the second play of the game (not to mention the element of surprise) and little downside (unless you have a player who doesn't throw that ball away if everyone is covered). Even ARE admitted that he should have thrown it away. That's a very poor example you use, but I would welcome other examples you or others have.

Thanks for reading my opinions. Just think that these views are extremely questionable.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:I think that NY won the game based on a few plays. That is what the game was based off of, a few plays. NY made all the plays and WE did not.

There are a lot of games left. JC will go back to the drawing board and playing against one of the better D-lines in the NFL, there will be a lot for this team to learn from. We play St. Louis next week and I feel very confident that we will show better next week with a win.

At what point does he finally learn?

I am not sure if you've been watching games today but most offenses - except a few teams performed well offensively. I'm not here to make excuses for him. He made a few mistakes but I think that he is not the #1 reason for the mistakes. JC should have stepped up in the pocket. He should have ran for the 1st down instead of throwing the INT but also, WR's should have fought for the ball. Defensive back's should have played tighter coverage. All defensive players except of Doughty need to learn to tackle again and not play SOFT. I know that all of you saw that but for whatever reason, you all feel the need to pile it on one player. JC is one of 11 guys on the field. He can't do it all and needs all 11 to do their job. He didn't do his on a few plays and unfortunately, it's very clear to everyone when he doesn't.

chiefhog44 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Zorn - Playcalling is still horrible. 2nd play of the game is one example. Plays with short WR's in the redzone and excluding our TALL WR's is inexcusable.

Maybe I'm an idiot, but these posts do not make any sense to me. I'm truely sorry for not understanding it, but how can you and others truely know that the playcalling was horrible? The reason I question these playcalling posts is that:

A: What do you know? What I mean by that is not a jab at you, I truely can't seem to figure out what qualifies you to suggest that...especially when most talk show hosts tonight do not site that as a problem at all in today's game. What do you know that experts (who are at the game) are failing to see?
B: Do you have access to a coaches cam so you can see the entire field? Meaning, how do you know that it's not the QB's fault. Maybe he's not seeing an open receiver. I assume you are watching the game at home on the broadcast, and those are pretty strong accusations for you to make with an extremely limited view of the game.
C: The example that you mention was hardly a poor playcall. In fact, I think most (who know) would agree that it was a very good playcall that had extremely poor execution. There is unlimited upside with a trick play like that on the second play of the game (not to mention the element of surprise) and little downside (unless you have a player who doesn't throw that ball away if everyone is covered). Even ARE admitted that he should have thrown it away. That's a very poor example you use, but I would welcome other examples you or others have.

Thanks for reading my opinions. Just think that these views are extremely questionable.

I agree 100%.

but a few people on here has a source who they know, who knows a guy at redskins park who knows that a guy slept through a meeting. That guy works at Starbucks and he told him. So, he's in the know.

chiefhog44 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Zorn - Playcalling is still horrible. 2nd play of the game is one example. Plays with short WR's in the redzone and excluding our TALL WR's is inexcusable.

Maybe I'm an idiot, but these posts do not make any sense to me. I'm truely sorry for not understanding it, but how can you and others truely know that the playcalling was horrible? The reason I question these playcalling posts is that:

A: What do you know? What I mean by that is not a jab at you, I truely can't seem to figure out what qualifies you to suggest that...especially when most talk show hosts tonight do not site that as a problem at all in today's game. What do you know that experts (who are at the game) are failing to see?
B: Do you have access to a coaches cam so you can see the entire field? Meaning, how do you know that it's not the QB's fault. Maybe he's not seeing an open receiver. I assume you are watching the game at home on the broadcast, and those are pretty strong accusations for you to make with an extremely limited view of the game.
C: The example that you mention was hardly a poor playcall. In fact, I think most (who know) would agree that it was a very good playcall that had extremely poor execution. There is unlimited upside with a trick play like that on the second play of the game (not to mention the element of surprise) and little downside (unless you have a player who doesn't throw that ball away if everyone is covered). Even ARE admitted that he should have thrown it away. That's a very poor example you use, but I would welcome other examples you or others have.

Thanks for reading my opinions. Just think that these views are extremely questionable.

1. Zorns play calling was questioned on the comcast show, not that they are anyone special.

2. Why call a play like that before the offense has even got warmed up. Why run something that risky so early in the game and run the risk? Why not just run the normal plays, some high percentage stuff and get the confidence up? But thats just my opinion. Walk before you run.

You want another example of piss poor play calling? A WR screen to moss in the redzone is RETARDED. No passes to Kelly? Marko? Kelly? We get height and we're hell bent on throwing to midgets.

But u kno, u guys are right. THere's nothing wrong with the play calling... They score 3 points, everything is perfectly fine. Who am I kidding? That TD to ey was in garbage time...

chiefhog44 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Zorn - Playcalling is still horrible. 2nd play of the game is one example. Plays with short WR's in the redzone and excluding our TALL WR's is inexcusable.

Maybe I'm an idiot, but these posts do not make any sense to me. I'm truely sorry for not understanding it, but how can you and others truely know that the playcalling was horrible? The reason I question these playcalling posts is that:

A: What do you know? What I mean by that is not a jab at you, I truely can't seem to figure out what qualifies you to suggest that...especially when most talk show hosts tonight do not site that as a problem at all in today's game. What do you know that experts (who are at the game) are failing to see?
B: Do you have access to a coaches cam so you can see the entire field? Meaning, how do you know that it's not the QB's fault. Maybe he's not seeing an open receiver. I assume you are watching the game at home on the broadcast, and those are pretty strong accusations for you to make with an extremely limited view of the game.
C: The example that you mention was hardly a poor playcall. In fact, I think most (who know) would agree that it was a very good playcall that had extremely poor execution. There is unlimited upside with a trick play like that on the second play of the game (not to mention the element of surprise) and little downside (unless you have a player who doesn't throw that ball away if everyone is covered). Even ARE admitted that he should have thrown it away. That's a very poor example you use, but I would welcome other examples you or others have.

Thanks for reading my opinions. Just think that these views are extremely questionable.

If I read your post right, you seem to think the play calling was great or at least good. What quarterback in any league calls an audible run play when your running backs have been stuffed all day when you are 3rd and what? about 15?

Yes, the play calling was not great or even good today. Most series started with two runs that got stuffed and a pass that was usually incomplete. That was the offensive plan even when it was apparent that it wasn't working. The only good series was the no huddle series at the end of the game.

But who knows what play was called by Zorn. It could have been another run call where CP was running right at the stacked line. We may not have had the personnel in the game to do any other plays and this was the only other play that could have worked. Who knows. I'm not making excuses. It clearly didn't work but we don't know and I just don't see why we have to question everything.

frankcal20 wrote:I think that NY won the game based on a few plays. That is what the game was based off of, a few plays. NY made all the plays and WE did not.

There are a lot of games left. JC will go back to the drawing board and playing against one of the better D-lines in the NFL, there will be a lot for this team to learn from. We play St. Louis next week and I feel very confident that we will show better next week with a win.

I seriously think you take crazy pills.

We were beat inside and out by the NYGs. The score may say we lost by 6, but I think everyone will agree that it was not even close.

And are saying that JC is going back to the drawing board again????? How many times have we heard this......

markshark84 wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:I think that NY won the game based on a few plays. That is what the game was based off of, a few plays. NY made all the plays and WE did not.

There are a lot of games left. JC will go back to the drawing board and playing against one of the better D-lines in the NFL, there will be a lot for this team to learn from. We play St. Louis next week and I feel very confident that we will show better next week with a win.

I seriously think you take crazy pills.

We were beat inside and out by the NYGs. The score may say we lost by 6, but I think everyone will agree that it was not even close.

And are saying that JC is going back to the drawing board again????? How many times have we heard this......

Mark,
This isn't my first football game. I do not scream DOOM AND GLOOM like most Redskins fans when our team doesn't do what they need to do. I can think of a few plays that cost us the game. Don't forget that the Giants also scored on a fluke play where they got a fumble return for a TD. So if you take that away along with the fake FG, we are only talking a few plays. Our Defense did a terrible job on the Manningham tackle or lack there of.

I would say that neither team played really that well at all but in the end, NY won. Regardless of what anyone things, if you watch the tape, a lot of guys played their hearts out and there were a select few that didn't give the effort that was needed to win. And that applies to both sides of the ball.

Snout wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:Portis had 16 carries that's unacceptable!!!!

Portis was not given the carries, we abandoned the run and it started on 2nd down with a reciever pass for a 12 yrd loss.

Except for the first long run, Portis had a terrible day. Most of his carries were for no gain. Some will say that is because our offensive line is terrible, but I think that the OL played pretty well.

People are jumping all over Campbell, but I thought he played well enough. In fact, he didn't even get a chance to do anything until the second quarter, when we were already in a hole. Statistically he finished the game with a higher passer rating than Manning.

The conventional wisdom these days is that Portis is our workhorse on offense and that Campbell is our weak link. I think our weak links are our RB and our #1 WR.

Man, what the heck? We have 1 problem. Jason Campbell. P E R I O D. Enough with excuses. The reason the Giants are able to jam Moss and others in press coverage ALL DAY LONG is because Campbell is NO THREAT to punish them. The Giants know that the Redskins offense is a one trick pony ... Portis ... stuff Portis and Moss, and the Redskins are done. The Giants know this better than anyone, and so they do what all good teams do ... they do what works and continue to do it until you make them stop. That's why there are no running lanes, because they're stacking the box and playing press man coverage on our outside "no threats". Until you prove that they have to respect - protect against downfield plays, they're going to play "red zone" type defense where they saturate 20 yards and in, where the Redskin offensive plays are executed 99% of the time.

And don't tell me that "they do go deep" because they don't. They TRY to go deep two or three times and fail either from poorly thrown balls or sacks because of Campbell's confusion about stepping up into the pocket rather than drifting deeper into the pass rush. And here we are with a 5th year QB (4th year starter) STILL TALKING FUNDAMENTALS??? This isn't "system" related. These are fundamentals that should never enter into conversation regarding a 4th year veteran QB.

Have you ever even heard the term "stretch the field" ? That's what it means ... you make the defense cover the entire field and not this lame, predictable run, run, screen, dink right, dunk left impotent excuse for an offense. Everyone else in the league is figuring this out, which is why we couldn't even mange a win against the lousy Rams last year.

And Zorn? I believe this guy is WAY OVER HIS HEAD at best, and at worst, completely wrong on a fundamental level. This whole business of "staying medium" MAKES ME FREAKING CRAZY, and makes the team a bunch of uninspired, lackadaisical and emotionless underachievers.

They don't need Zorn whispering OHM in the lotus position ... they need a very large FOOT IN THEIR REAR ENDS.

I think Zorn needs to go back to the West Coast and meditate over a nice glass of sauvignon blanc before the entire team is found running around airports in pink gowns. (AND TAKE CAMPBELL WITH YOU, JIM)

The D looked worse than last year, only diff is that now the front lines are beast and the secondary is weak. Big Al was worth the trouble of getting. They ran away from him all night. Orakpo is pretty solid at LB but is worth more at DE. The secondary is like seeing deja vu circa 2007, 10-12 yd cushion? What was that? Did Gregg williams sneak in redskin park last week?




The offense (lack there of) is still sputtering, CP looked good, but he seemed a bit slower on the initial burst, is he hurt? cartwright and Betts, bleh, why do we have these guys in the roster? Rock is slow, the hole is blockers are there but too slow to take advantage of the moving hole in coverage, Betts goes down at first contact. JC17 boy he has a strong arm, unfortunately he can only throw far, can't really control where he is throwing he is just throwing it really really far. Sooner or later we will get something out of the tall receivers, assuming that they actually get the ball thrown their way (arms length vicinity from the body) when they are open down field.




The good stuff? The Dline will only get better as we play more games. The Oline looked pretty solid against a top tier D of Tuck and company. Nice seeing 4 reciever sets. ey looking solid as ever. Scoring on a fake FG, wow I mean wow, get the ball to the punter and watch him run LMAO it was fun to watch.

RayNAustin wrote:

Snout wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:Portis had 16 carries that's unacceptable!!!!

Portis was not given the carries, we abandoned the run and it started on 2nd down with a reciever pass for a 12 yrd loss.

Except for the first long run, Portis had a terrible day. Most of his carries were for no gain. Some will say that is because our offensive line is terrible, but I think that the OL played pretty well.

People are jumping all over Campbell, but I thought he played well enough. In fact, he didn't even get a chance to do anything until the second quarter, when we were already in a hole. Statistically he finished the game with a higher passer rating than Manning.

The conventional wisdom these days is that Portis is our workhorse on offense and that Campbell is our weak link. I think our weak links are our RB and our #1 WR.

Man, what the heck? We have 1 problem. Jason Campbell. P E R I O D. Enough with excuses. The reason the Giants are able to jam Moss and others in press coverage ALL DAY LONG is because Campbell is NO THREAT to punish them. The Giants know that the Redskins offense is a one trick pony ... Portis ... stuff Portis and Moss, and the Redskins are done. The Giants know this better than anyone, and so they do what all good teams do ... they do what works and continue to do it until you make them stop. That's why there are no running lanes, because they're stacking the box and playing press man coverage on our outside "no threats". Until you prove that they have to respect - protect against downfield plays, they're going to play "red zone" type defense where they saturate 20 yards and in, where the Redskin offensive plays are executed 99% of the time.

And don't tell me that "they do go deep" because they don't. They TRY to go deep two or three times and fail either from poorly thrown balls or sacks because of Campbell's confusion about stepping up into the pocket rather than drifting deeper into the pass rush. And here we are with a 5th year QB (4th year starter) STILL TALKING FUNDAMENTALS??? This isn't "system" related. These are fundamentals that should never enter into conversation regarding a 4th year veteran QB.

Have you ever even heard the term "stretch the field" ? That's what it means ... you make the defense cover the entire field and not this lame, predictable run, run, screen, dink right, dunk left impotent excuse for an offense. Everyone else in the league is figuring this out, which is why we couldn't even mange a win against the lousy Rams last year.

And Zorn? I believe this guy is WAY OVER HIS HEAD at best, and at worst, completely wrong on a fundamental level. This whole business of "staying medium" MAKES ME FREAKING CRAZY, and makes the team a bunch of uninspired, lackadaisical and emotionless underachievers.

They don't need Zorn whispering OHM in the lotus position ... they need a very large FOOT IN THEIR REAR ENDS.

I think Zorn needs to go back to the West Coast and meditate over a nice glass of sauvignon blanc before the entire team is found running around airports in pink gowns. (AND TAKE CAMPBELL WITH YOU, JIM)

Are the Campbell apologists finally out of excuses?

eh ....

No. I think the team needs to step it up and if they do, you will see Campbell will step up as well.

I have to admit I haven't read every post, so maybe this has already been mentioned. The entire offseason we debated about Jason Campbell's abilities, but seemed to all agree that our O-line was a problem. I thought they looked great. Not elite, but solid enough to give Campbell some time against the best defensive front in the league. THE GLASS IS HALF FULL. I think the O-line has benefitted greatly from having to go up against Big Al and Co. in practice.

Deadskins wrote:Five things this team needs to learn:
1. ARE needs to learn to throw it away if everyone is covered.
2. Carlos Rogers needs to learn to catch.
3. Deangelo Hall needs to learn to tackle.
4. JC needs to learn to step up in the pocket.
5. Jim Zorn needs to learn to call a less predictable game.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Those are the exact points I came up with.

I truely can't seem to figure out what qualifies you to suggest that...especially when most talk show hosts tonight do not site that as a problem at all in today's game. What do you know that experts (who are at the game) are failing to see?

On the Comcast postgame show they questioned Zorn's play calling and I remember Aikman making a few comments about it during the game too.

SkinsJock wrote:welcome back BRD - hopefully this weekend's game will have us all looking forward again - there are 15 games to be played and I would find it hard to believe the players and coaches don't want to play and coach a lot better than what we saw today


we are not that bad a team

Thanks SJ. Agreed, it's only one game and there's a heckuva lot of season left. We aren't necessarily as inept and clueless as we always seem to be against our new NFCE bugaboo, the Giants...but we're also not a very good team even on our best day. Here's hoping our guys can pull together and figure out what's misfiring, fix it and start building something solid for the future of this franchise.

Sooner or later things have GOT to change, right?


Preferably for the better.....

edit dup post

I love this ... "Most experts say" or "most radio commentators didn't mention ..." That's the trouble here ... a bunch of recycled opinions that ignore what the eyes see and the results show.

Gentlemen, WE'VE SEEN THIS MOVIE several times. There's no mystery as to how it ends. The offense STINKS because the QB STINKS. Passing game problems? Maybe .... maybe it's the passer? Maybe? Imagine that.

As has been so often the case, the offense not only can't score when the defense gives them the ball on the 11 yard line .. but they actually give up a TD on a turnover. Then, after stinking the joint up for 55 minutes, they get a long "junk" drive and a score against a prevent defense. That pads the stats some, but it doesn't change the outcome or the problem.

How many times do we need to see Moe trying to fit a 2x4 long ways through the doorway before we agree that he's an idiot?