Time to act on the OL issue

[El Mexican]

To CLL:

Ok, just to make myself clear.

LB: Flecher is great but we are seeing the last years of his career. He is 34 years old. Dude can't play forever. Exactly who will takeover his spot? As for the rest of the corps, Rocky has been a solid pick but gets hurt way too frequently. H.B. Blades is solid. I'll reserve judgement over Fincher and Chris Wilson.

As for Orakpo playing LB this season, I see that as logical. He has great ability. The problem is that Wynn (34) and Daniels (36) are quite old. Andre Carter is no spring-chicken, footballwise, at 30. So you're looking at Orakpo moving to his natural position (DE) when Daniels retires or Wynn leaves. The Jeremy Jarmon pick makes a lot of sense.

I have no idea whom are you refering to on this years roster when you say the team has "two" change of pace backs. Portis has been abused during his career at DC and we all know how rare it is nowadays to see him break a long run. Betts is a grinder and excels at pass-catching, but speed is not his forte. I'm talking about drafting a kid in the Darren Sproles-molde. Anyone who can compliment with speed the solid running game already in place.

As for the QB situation we all know that Todd Collins, at 37, is probably entering his last year in the NFL and JC's situation is sketchy, at best. Either way, you are looking at upgrading the QB position after this year, or at least finding some suitable depth.

Of course the O-line should be upgraded, but there are other priorities as well.

[Paralis]

CONSPIRACY THEORY

With the prospect of an uncapped year looming in 2010, the top 8 teams (by playoff standings) will only be able to sign free agents on a 1:1 basis for lost players.

With SB-winning WCO coaches Gruden, Shanahan, and Holmgren in the coaching market for 2010, ignoring the OL (signing "former starters" Jeremy Bridges and Mike Williams amounts to as much) knowingly cripples the offense, providing BOTH pr cover to fire Zorn at the end of the season AS WELL as maximum flexibility to improve the team next year.

DISCUSS

[SkinsJock]

CONSPIRACY THEORY

With the prospect of an uncapped year looming in 2010, the top 8 teams (by playoff standings) will only be able to sign free agents on a 1:1 basis for lost players.

With SB-winning WCO coaches Gruden, Shanahan, and Holmgren in the coaching market for 2010, ignoring the OL (signing "former starters" Jeremy Bridges and Mike Williams amounts to as much) knowingly cripples the offense, providing BOTH pr cover to fire Zorn at the end of the season AS WELL as maximum flexibility to improve the team next year.

DISCUSS

actually, based on this post, there is nothing to discuss - we have not seen this team play a single minute and there is no way to really know how well anyone will play yet - it really serves no purpose to speculate something like the scenario suggested

we could end up in the playoffs as a wild card and still have major changes here - this is just not worth wasting much time worrying about right now

[Chris Luva Luva]

I have no idea whom are you refering to on this years roster when you say the team has "two" change of pace backs. Portis has been abused during his career at DC and we all know how rare it is nowadays to see him break a long run. Betts is a grinder and excels at pass-catching, but speed is not his forte. I'm talking about drafting a kid in the Darren Sproles-molde. Anyone who can compliment with speed the solid running game already in place.

see. Aldrige and Dorsey

[El Mexican]

I have no idea whom are you refering to on this years roster when you say the team has "two" change of pace backs. Portis has been abused during his career at DC and we all know how rare it is nowadays to see him break a long run. Betts is a grinder and excels at pass-catching, but speed is not his forte. I'm talking about drafting a kid in the Darren Sproles-molde. Anyone who can compliment with speed the solid running game already in place.

see. Aldrige and Dorsey

Oh, you mean one guy who was claimed off-waivers (Aldridge) and another player that comes from the CFL and was signed primarily for his special team abilitues (Dorsey).

C'mon man, are you kidding?

[Chris Luva Luva]

C'mon man, are you kidding?

Didn't you say you wanted a change of pace back? Isn't that what they are and the purpose of their acquisitions? Now, if you want to complain about how good they are, that's another discussion. But that's what they are, that's why they're here.

It just seems like you're intent on complaining about this stuff before a conclusion has been reached, your mind is already made up. I'm taking a wait and see approach.

What I don't get is how everyone wants a 1st round pick to be used at a position of their choosing. If it's not a 1st round pick, the guy is a bum. Everyone said Tryon was a bum and the kid is blossoming, how about everyone just shut up and enjoy the ride. I'll do my fair share of griping but let AT LEAST see the people play.

[VetSkinsFan]

I'll do my fair share of griping but let AT LEAST see the people play.

Yeah, I dread week 9 on to the end of the season

[El Mexican]

Just saying the running game could be fantastic with a quality change of pace back, a la Sproles and LT, a la Byner and Ervins.

Hope the FO unearthed a diamond in the rough this year with either Dorsey or Aldridge.

[Deadskins]

but it's pretty stupid to assume that we'll just be able to address the oline next year.

Nobody is saying all of the draft pics are going to the o-line. Come on now... I'm debating where the focus will be and I believe the offensive line will get more focus next year.

And it's not like the draft is the only option for addressing needs in the off-season.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Just saying the running game could be fantastic with a quality change of pace back, a la Sproles and LT, a la Byner and Ervins.

Hope the FO unearthed a diamond in the rough this year with either Dorsey or Aldridge.

And I'm just saying that the FO addressed the situation and is trying to find someone. What more do you want? Do you want a sure thing? If so, it doesn't exist. The FO found some guys within reason and brought them aboard.

Unless you want them to spend a 1st round pick on a change of pace back. I'd suggest you get in line behind the offensive line rally party and the LB crew.

[HEROHAMO]

Laron Landry, he is young and it is obvious he is getting better every year. Losing Landry would hurt but our defense is solid enough to recover from losing him. So gaining a solid line might be worth losing Landry. I hate to say that. We also have a solid Chris Horton and a very good secondary to make up for losing Landry. So gaining a Pro Bowler for Landry might be worth it.

And who would step in a FS? Moore, while getting reviews, hasn't shown enough where he can start. We can't drop Springs back there since we don't have him. That would leave a huge hole back there in centerfield.

Chris ey, he is a beloved player. All feelings aside we must detach emotions. Losing Chris ey and gaining a Pro Bowl lineman might be worth it. We have a young Fred Davis who may become good.

So, trade away our Pro Bowl TE and use who? Fred Davis, who has upside, but hasn't proven himself as an NFL caliber TE? I like what he's shown so far, but it's a huge gamble to rely on Davis and Yoder to take up ey's slack. If we had a strong corps of WR, then maybe, but we simply cannot get rid of our best receiver. PERIOD.

If JC was a true franchise QB and all we needed was a lineman to field a killer offense, then I could possibly see it. Based on last year's performance, we have RB who gets run in to the ground and an anemic passing game. We have high hopes, but we cannot get rid of our current stars in this situation.

You bring up some very good points.

Quarterback is definatley a question mark. There are no guarantees that gaining a solid O line would assure our Qb will perform.

[PulpExposure]

I'll do my fair share of griping but let AT LEAST see the people play.

Yeah, I dread week 9 on to the end of the season

You read my mind

[Countertrey]

Any thought of disrupting what has the potential to be a truly frightening defense in the name of improving this o-line is just foolish. We do not have any idea yet whether the offense is close enough to being good that the one player we might be able to get would make a difference.

This will be addressed soon enough. Right now, our defense has a league to destroy. Let them do that, please.

[Irn-Bru]

Just saying the running game could be fantastic with a quality change of pace back, a la Sproles and LT, a la Byner and Ervins.

Where did Sproles come from? Who knew about him before last year? The diamonds in the rough don't have high pedigrees. . .you want us to get a diamond in the rough, but then you criticize when we search anywhere and everywhere for one.

Hope the FO unearthed a diamond in the rough this year with either Dorsey or Aldridge.

Expressing hope would be a nice "change of pace" for some THN posters. The season's just around the corner. Hope they can find it within them to be a supportive fan once again.

[CanesSkins26]

Where did Sproles come from? Who knew about him before last year? The diamonds in the rough don't have high pedigrees. . .you want us to get a diamond in the rough, but then you criticize when we search anywhere and everywhere for one. Rolling Eyes

I don't know if Darren Sproles really qualifies as a "diamond in the rough." The guy finished 5th in the Heisman voting while in college and was drafted in the 4th round in the 2004 draft, which was super deep in running backs.

[Irn-Bru]

I don't know if Darren Sproles really qualifies as a "diamond in the rough." The guy finished 5th in the Heisman voting while in college and was drafted in the 4th round in the 2004 draft, which was super deep in running backs.

I agree that he's not a prototypical diamond in the rough. I was just granting El Mexican's point.

The point is, if you look at the backs drafted before him in 2005, he was clearly an undervalued player. He was taken about 2/3rds into the class of RBs, with roughly 15 players taken ahead of him. Several of the guys taken ahead of him aren't even in the NFL anymore.

My point is, if this was 2008 and we were Chargers fans, what could I really say to a skeptic who was bashing the team for not having a 'better' change of pace back to backup LT? It's a premature judgment.

[SkinsJock]

.. Quarterback is defiantly a question mark.

I'll agree that he's going to have millions of reasons to do well this year and he might even be defiant about the whole process as well
Our poor offensive showing was not all because of our QB and he will hopefully have a great year - he might not be a great QB but I think he's determined and maybe even defiant

There are no guarantees that gaining a solid O line would assure our QB will perform.

there are no guarantees at all but there are 3 things that will help to ensure long term success:
1) a very good QB
2) a very good defensive line
3) a very good offensive line

these are not "all important" - there are teams lately that have won the Super Bowl without all 3 (Giants in 2008 and Steelers in 2009) but these are very helpful if you want to remain a very competitive team.

it is my estimation that we (as a team) did as well as we could the past 2 years and we will hopefully continue this process in the coming year so that we can build this group back into a competitive franchise again - I am sure that there will be a lot af answers about our offense this year just as there will be a number of other parts of our team that need addressing also - the better teams "manage" these issues better than we have in the past - maybe we are getting there too

[skinsfan#33]

there are no guarantees at all but there are 3 things that will help to ensure long term success:
1) a very good QB
2) a very good defensive line
3) a very good offensive line

these are not "all important" - there are teams lately that have won the Super Bowl without all 3 (Giants in 2008 and Steelers in 2009) but these are very helpful if you want to remain a very competitive team.

I get that the Steelers didn't have a good OL last year (and the Cardinals' OL was putrid as well), but what area of those three didn't the 08 G men have? Most definitely not DL and their OL was one of the best in the league that year, so you most be insinuating that the QB wasn't very good. If that is what you are saying you most just have your homer vision on. Because ELI was very good and still is (even if he is an over paid dufus!)

[SkinsJock]

IMO, Eli is over-rated - that team was the best team on the field that game but nobody will ever convince me that they were a better team than the team they beat - sometimes the better teams lose games I could not care less about the patriots and actually was glad they did not finish the season undefeated

IMO, Eli is a good QB (BUT not a very good QB) and the giants still won the Super Bowl against an undefeated team - go figure

[Deadskins]

ELI was very good and still is (even if he is an over paid dufus!)

Have to disagree there SF#33. We'll see how good he is this season minus a top receiver. The G-strings fans were about to dump him and Coughlin until they went on that playoff run.

[SkinsJock]

ELI was very good and still is (even if he is an over paid dufus!)

Have to disagree there SF#33. We'll see how good he is this season minus a top receiver. The G-strings fans were about to dump him and Coughlin until they went on that playoff run.

I remember that - I was thinking that those 2 would be 'gone' - despite the fact that both are now almost revered, when the reality comes back, that town will not be very supportive

[PulpExposure]

ELI was very good and still is (even if he is an over paid dufus!)

Have to disagree there SF#33. We'll see how good he is this season minus a top receiver. The G-strings fans were about to dump him and Coughlin until they went on that playoff run.

I remember that - I was thinking that those 2 would be 'gone' - despite the fact that both are now almost revered, when the reality comes back, that town will not be very supportive

Eli is highly overrated. I'm not even sure I'd say he's a good quarterback; I just think he happens to be in a perfect situation. For example, the year they won the Superbowl, he had a 56.1% completion, 23 TDs and 20 INTs, with a passer rating of 73.9. His overall numbers are 55.9% completion, 98 TDs, 74 INTs, and a passer rating of 76.1. Despite playing with the benefit of a truly great running game (first Tiki Barber, then Brandon Jacobs/Ward/Bradshaw).

Those aren't the numbers of a very good quarterback....

[SkinsJock]

agreed Pulp - you're preaching to the choir here

I would add to that - IMO he's played behind a very good line and those stats, as you say should be a lot better for a "good QB"

I just have never thought Eli had the fire or the desire that Peyton has - not that I'm a big Peyton fan but he is a good/great QB

[Irn-Bru]

Eli is highly overrated. I'm not even sure I'd say he's a good quarterback; I just think he happens to be in a perfect situation. For example, the year they won the Superbowl, he had a 56.1% completion, 23 TDs and 20 INTs, with a passer rating of 73.9. His overall numbers are 55.9% completion, 98 TDs, 74 INTs, and a passer rating of 76.1. Despite playing with the benefit of a truly great running game (first Tiki Barber, then Brandon Jacobs/Ward/Bradshaw).

Those aren't the numbers of a very good quarterback....

I won't argue that Eli isn't overrated (especially as he is now getting paid more than his brother). However, do stats really tell the whole story?

What other QBs can you imagine leading the game-winning TD drive that Eli led against the Pats? He's had more than a few similar clutch drives in his career. Although I agree that his overall performance is most often average, he knows how to go for the kill when it counts.

Same thing with Roethlisberger. His stats would suggest that he is an average or even below-average QB. But when you look at how he performs in the clutch, it's hard to dispute that there is something there that isn't present in most QBs with average stats.

Obviously it's hard to make the argument I am, since I'm saying that the one objective measure we have, stats, don't really tell the whole story. But I think there is a certain set of intangible qualities that make QBs like Eli, Roethlisberger, and a host of historically-maligned QBs (Terry Bradshaw, for example) better than what their stats say.

[SkinsJock]

I have long felt that stats are often mis-used just to "make the point" and, as you say, "don't tell the whole story" in many cases

I will give credit where credit is due as far as Eli is concerned but I just don't think that he's as good a QB as both the stats and a lot of fans make him out to be - AND I'm just happy that he's not likely to ever be our QB

I would even go so far as to say that IMO, Campbell could have done better than Eli if he had been given the same team to play for. I am not a Campbell fan but I'm certainly not thinking that Eli is a better QB either. Campbell would have loved playing behind a line that could give him the time he seems to need

to get back to our O line - I just hope that we see some good things from these guys in the next few weeks here so that we can feel better about what I consider a very questionable group.