The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

langleyparkjoe wrote:Good points NJ-Skins, I agree 100% that he needs to get away from the South.

Because we're just old rednecks, racists, klansmen, etc down here? Come on, what a weak argument.

langleyparkjoe wrote:There's no sense in actually saying Vick this or Vick that.. comparing him to rapists/pedi's/murderers is just insane.. really. I'd rather live next to somone who killed dogs than to live next to someone who is a rapist/pedi/murderer.. just my opinion. Smithian, it appears you are saying Vick is the same as Manson or Bundy or one of them crazy folks who did crimes ON PEOPLE.

I'm just saying if you want to say he should be treated fairly because he served his prison sentence, let treat everyone that way and regardless what crime you do, once your out, you should be a perfectly equal citizen.

langleyparkjoe wrote:Back to football, I believe he'll end up somewhere up north or far from the south (like NJ-Skins said). Pittsburgh I think would take him.. with their FO the way it is and a young black head coach that maybe can relate to Vick, he would be on the straight path. Yes, I did mention black because lets be frank about it gents/ladies; I'm 95% sure Tomlin being black could relate more to Vick than lets say Cower. I just don't want Vick in the NFC East (unless he's a Skin) because its not like he was a great QB to begin with but I think he can still do some damage especially with built up frustration he may have and his legs are lethal.

Oh my Gosh... I guess all the white players need not sign with the Steelers because obviously color determines personality.

Well actually no, I was just saying that since the dog fighting incidents happened in the south (and since PETA said it happens alot down there in relation to the US) and since his close friends are down there.. maybe it would be a good idea to stay away from that environment and those knuckle headed friends. I mean, if I have a problem with alcohol I wouldn't go to a bar ya know?

Again, I'm assuming that you didn't read what Vet and I were talking about.. not trying to start any arguments bro, I was simply.. hell wit it, your right bro.. white people suck..

Do you all think we can bring this back to topic?

That's my bad Trey, I didn't mean to get off track... there seems to be a couple of teams that really may need him, I'm guessing the Vikings are one? Maybe Seattle since he has ties with the coach?

If he's available on the cheap, I wouldn't mind pickin him up. There's no way to know if he can get back on the field and perform to the level that he did before his incarceration, but I'd give him a chance.

With Zorn being a QB mentor, I imagine that he'd be able to help Vick withhis QBing skills If he could become an adequate passer with these wheels...

There are a few teams that might be a fit for Vick but I would be very surprised if Zorn would think that Vick would fit in with who we have here and what he wants to get accomplished here offensively.

I personally do not think that he's going to get much of an opportunity as I think that Goodell is not going to even consider anything until July and for most teams that would not be a good time to be trying a new QB.

I also think that Goodell is going to have a hard look at the fact that Vick lied to him at a very bad time - as I recall, The NFL wanted to send Vick as the NFL representative to Virginia Tech after the tragedy there and Goodell personally asked Vick if there was anything at all of substance to the rumors about the dog fighting and Vick categorically and forcibly denied any association or knowledge about the dog fighting business.
Not a good move and while he has "served his time" he still has to show the guy he lied to that he's a changed man.

not good timing and a fairly uphill battle, IMHO



I hope he plays football if that is what he wants to do but I hope it is not in the NFL, but that's just me

I agree that he has to prove that he's rehabbed from his wrongdoing. I don't think that Vick is dumb enough to go back to his old ways.

As for Vick being here, If you get someone like him, you alter your plan around your strengths, and Vick's wheels would be a strength. Vick bootlegging around behind Sellers and CP. We know CP can passblock, I imagine he can run block a bit, too. Vick and CP in the backfield... that takes a safety spy on Vick at all times, b/c I don't think many LBs can catch 'em. If Zorn could help with his accuracy, then that would be a sick, sick situation.

VetSkinsFan wrote:As for Vick being here, If you get someone like him, you alter your plan around your strengths, and Vick's wheels would be a strength. Vick bootlegging around behind Sellers and CP. We know CP can passblock, I imagine he can run block a bit, too. Vick and CP in the backfield... that takes a safety spy on Vick at all times, b/c I don't think many LBs can catch 'em. If Zorn could help with his accuracy, then that would be a sick, sick situation.

Even when I still had respect for Vick as a man, I did not think he was a quarterback. Nothing has changed that. He's akin to Lavar Arrington... incredible physical talent, but lacking in discipline, and prone to freelancing at the cost of team play. Like Arrington, I can only imagine the greatness he could have realized had be been amenable to the efforts of his coaches.

If he comes back, it will most likely be as a receiver or a hybrid back to run the wildcat... a team would have to be completely desperate to bring him in as a quarterback.


and it won't be as a Redskin.

Irn-Bru wrote:

brad7686 wrote:could bring him in as a change of pace back with trick play capabilities. As a qb he has even less touch than Campbell and is considerably less accurate. So that won't work unless he scrambles every play.

Which he basically does on every play. It's not so much the scrambling that intrigues me as it is his ability to buy time and let a receiver get open. In the NFC East that's a nice skill to have.

The fact that he can also take off for a 60-yard touchdown run ain't all that bad, either. . .

Did you know during his years as a starting QB he was sacked 187 times in 74 games. That is 2.53 times per game. Like most scrambling QBs he was almost always near the top of the list in times sacked.

Every 9.25 times he went back to pass he was sacked!

Jacson Campbell has been sacked 66 times in 36 games, or 1.87 sack per game, or once every 17.12 pass attempts. About half as often as Vick. As bad as our OL was last year (and I don't think it was near as bad as everyone else does) JC was still only sacked once for every 13.32 attemps! Or 44% better than Vicks average.

Matt Ryan was sacked 17 times in 16 games. He only had 268 attemps which come out to one sack per 15.59 pass plays.

Vick may have the worst sack percentage of any QB to play in the last ten years!

Maybe he didn't have the right QB mentor? I'm sure that someone could possibly teach him to use his powers for good. Remember how dangerous Cunningham was before his injury? I believe someone like Zorn mayb be able to calm him down; I wouldn't say Vick is hopeless.

Granted, it'sa pipe dream, but there's nothing wrong with wishing an incredible talent utilizes it to its fullest potential. And with that incredible talent, I think it's natural to want it on your team.

langleyparkjoe wrote:Oh, and this is almost a fact...

Tough selling an argument you begin this way.

VetSkinsFan wrote:Remember how dangerous Cunningham was before his injury?

Also not a very good QB. Excellent legs and a strong arm, but not a pure passer. Like Vick on steroids.

He was still extremely dangerous. I don't want a QB who can't get out of his own way, I like a QB who can scramble and get it done on his feet if necessary.

I never said make Vick a pocket passer.

Yes, but if you kept him in the pocket, he was very ordinary.

Isn't that comparing apples to oranges, though? One of Vicks strengths is his feet. How can you take away one guy's strength in order ot compare him to someone else?

My only pipedream thought (I used that specific term intentionally) is that if Zorn could help the QBing mechanics for Vick, he would be great to have. I also suggested that maybe Vick hasn't has the right mentor and since Zorn was a bit of a scrambler, MAYBE he could help Vick.

Thought I laid it out pretty well.

Deadskins wrote:

langleyparkjoe wrote:Oh, and this is almost a fact...

Tough selling an argument you begin this way.

VetSkinsFan wrote:Isn't that comparing apples to oranges, though? One of Vicks strengths is his feet. How can you take away one guy's strength in order ot compare him to someone else?

My only pipedream thought (I used that specific term intentionally) is that if Zorn could help the QBing mechanics for Vick, he would be great to have. I also suggested that maybe Vick hasn't has the right mentor and since Zorn was a bit of a scrambler, MAYBE he could help Vick.

Thought I laid it out pretty well.

Sorry Vet - I just do not see Zorn as being willing to work with a QB like Vick - he's not here and while Zorn does have a very good reputation for being a "QB mentor" I just do not see him wanting to bring in someone and then have to modify things to suit those talents.

I'm not disputing the obvious talents that Vick has I just do not see our team with the current players as being a "fit" for Vick and I would be surprised if Zorn would be that amenable to working with him even if he was one of our QB's.

I do agree that Vick needs both a QB mentor and he also needs to be a part of a team that will use the wildcat - that should narrow it down a lot.

and you left out the most obvious... it was my pipe dream!

Not sure if you folks have seen this yet, it's a couple days old.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/The+Way+We+Hear+It/Whispers/2009/nfc052409.htm

That's a generic comment about any big name that becomes available in FA. I wouldn't even give it a second thought.

That's a generic comment about any big name that becomes available in FA. I wouldn't even give it a second thought.

Deadskins wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:Remember how dangerous Cunningham was before his injury?

Also not a very good QB. Excellent legs and a strong arm, but not a pure passer. Like Vick on steroids.

Randle Cunningham was not a very good QB. I woulsn't even say he was a good QB!

He wasn't as bad as you're making him out to be. He made 4 Pro Bowls. That doesn't say he's the best, but that does say he's not close to the worst.

<sigh> I guess I shouldn't have used a name. It seems that the forest is missed for the trees. I was simply pointing out that a QB that can scramble and make things happen have that added element that defenses have to consider.

I didn't think it was that difficult to comprehend, but again, I used a name of an NFC East rival and got some feathers ruffled.

VetSkinsFan wrote:He wasn't as bad as you're making him out to be. He made 4 Pro Bowls. That doesn't say he's the best, but that does say he's not close to the worst.

<sigh> I guess I shouldn't have used a name. It seems that the forest is missed for the trees. I was simply pointing out that a QB that can scramble and make things happen have that added element that defenses have to consider.

I didn't think it was that difficult to comprehend, but again, I used a name of an NFC East rival and got some feathers ruffled.

Vet,
I knew what you meant I know he was no where near the worst, but a 4 time probowler just shows how poorly selected probowls are. Cunningham was a fantastic athlete, but just an average QB. I just think people over hipe him, much like Vick was.

Just for the record, Cunningham was significantly better than Vick.

There can be more in today's NFL QB than standing back there in the pocket and throwing the ball. I like the idea of having a QB that can move when he wants to. I like the skill set that these scramblers bring. If they have the right mentor and the right mentality (maybe Steve Young can get my point across?), it can add a dimension to an offense that can weigh heavily in our favor. Needing to keep a spy on the QB keeps a double team or a two deep from happening as often.