The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

PulpExposure wrote:

USAFSkinFan wrote:I don't care who was drafted in what year when, the fact is if Cerrato and Snyder really placed an emphasis on it, it would have been addressed... That position doesn't sell tickets

Okay...so you're saying that DT (Haynesworth) and OG (Dockery) are glamourous positions which sell a lot of tickets?

I mean you think the average fan is going to say "DAMN! The Redskins signed Derrick Dockery. Now I HAVE TO GO TO REDSKINS GAME!"

Agree with you on Dock, but Hayensworth is a big pr story and will help sell tickets/jerseys.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote: Next year I'm sure the o-line will get the spotlight.

That's what I thought heading into this off-season and we didn't see it. Our offensive line has needed and injection of youth for years. This isn't an issue that suddenly crept up this off-season. Jansen has been in decline for a few years now and Heyer hasn't proven to be that much of a player. He's done ok when he's been in there, but usually with the help of a tight end or a running back. Hopefully you guys are right about Jansen bouncing back. If the right side of the line isn't significantly better this year it's going to be another long season on offense.

And its been decades since the dline has been properly addressed...

One group of fans would have been pissed regardless of what they did.

Irn-Bru wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote: I've said it before and I'll say it again going into free agency and the draft the biggest need was defensive line, next was linebacker, offensive line was a pretty distant 3rd in my mind. We executed the offseason pretty well I think, the team is in pretty good shape moving forward and Jason Campbell has his best opportunity to prove he's worth an extension.

Well, then it appears we disagree on the urgency of our OL needs going into the offseason and on how well the Redskins addressed said needs.

I also think you are wrong and hope that we add someone to help begin the process of replacing the offensive line for this team's offense to have a better chance at both scoring more points and being more effective than they were last year.

I would presume that is the case but if, as you surmise, "all is OK" with the offensive line according to the coaches and the guys who are managing then we will not see this area addressed before this season begins - that would be a mistake IMHO

I do not agree with the order of "importance" that you stated - I think they took the best player available and I think they will have to do something to make sure that the right side of our offensive line does not let us down as much as it did last season.

I hope that Jansen is as good as everyone says he will be but I sure hope they also look into an insurance policy of some kind with someone before this season begins.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote: Next year I'm sure the o-line will get the spotlight.

That's what I thought heading into this off-season and we didn't see it. Our offensive line has needed and injection of youth for years. This isn't an issue that suddenly crept up this off-season. Jansen has been in decline for a few years now and Heyer hasn't proven to be that much of a player. He's done ok when he's been in there, but usually with the help of a tight end or a running back. Hopefully you guys are right about Jansen bouncing back. If the right side of the line isn't significantly better this year it's going to be another long season on offense.

And its been decades since the dline has been properly addressed...

One group of fans would have been pissed regardless of what they did.

They had to take Orakpo, I mean their hands were tied there. After that, they can't tell me there were no tackles that had a CHANCE to be better than what's left of Jansen and the undrafted/uncoordinated Heyer. And the giant fat guy we added. There was at least some depth if nothing else for OL. They instead decided to go after LB, and not even good ones really. They could have taken Marcus Freeman if they wanted to go LB that bad.

They had to take Orakpo, I mean their hands were tied there. After that, they can't tell me there were no tackles that had a CHANCE to be better than what's left of Jansen and the undrafted/uncoordinated Heyer. And the giant fat guy we added. There was at least some depth if nothing else for OL. They instead decided to go after LB, and not even good ones really. They could have taken Marcus Freeman if they wanted to go LB that bad.

Buges said last year that if he could just get Heyer lower he would be much improved. I trust Buges when it comes to the offensive line. Heyer might be better this year. This is the time of year to teach him. The fat guy is only here to add competition. Because he is so out of shape, I do not expect him to start. He might be worth the chance we are giving him. He might not. It doesn't hurt. I like our 3rd round pick. It would have been nice to get a tackle but maybe they thought he was better than a 3rd rounder. As for the rest well its all still up in the air. They did try to get LBs. That was a need too. Lets just see first how it works before we say they wasted picks that are usually gambles anyway.

If Heyer could start more than 4 games at a time, I think he’d be able to work those kinks out of his performance.

I think I would have been happier if they'd taken the best available OT at #80 instead of Barnes. They had enough faith in Justin Tryon to keep him around all year and with Rodgers, Smoot, Hall and those two we are talking about the fifth corner on the roster. Not to say it isn't important to have depth there but I feel like there would be an acceptable vet out there after the draft at CB but I doubt there will be any young comptetitive OT's after teams make their cuts. The draft was certainly a success, and I'll be relieved when opposing QB's finally show some fear and confusion but IMO the top two problems for this team in no particular order are O-line and D-line. It just would have been nice to put competition at RT, LB, and LDE

Here is another thought. Remember when we moved Joe Jacoby to right tackle? Maybe in next years draft or FA we find a LT. We could move Chris to RT in his declining years. Yes, folks Chris is still real good but not what he used to be. My bro and I argue over this. He says we need an excellent run blocker there (RT) and pass blocker second. I think Chris has improved his run blocking and we could squeeze many more years out of him in the RT spot. Just a thought.

I agree the RT spot needs to be addressed, it probably would have been had Orakpo not dropped to 13.

If you think about it we faced alot of pretty agressive blitzing teams last year.
Hyer isnt developed yet,
Jansen may have been less than 100%,
Thomas played injured
Kendall was old with bad knees
Samuels was nicked up.

I think you see a much improved O-line this year and there are certainly more teams worse off than us in that dept. I'd take our O-line in its current state over 80% of the rest of the league. were gonna be fine.

We do need to start looking at young blue chip replacements in the near future though.

And "what if" Orakpo turns out to be the kind of impact player ST was?

Yeah were ok, with adequate depth to deal with bad luck, don't sweat it.

"I'm going to be here this year, and you can put a Pro Bowl by my name," Jansen said. "That's what I'm preparing for."
He's obviously not throwing in the towel and I think that's great! He's finally healthy after his run of horrible luck the last few years and I hope he can return to his proper place as an elitr RT in this league and a leader on the team.
Qoute comes from this article in the Times BTW
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/200 ... ob-is-his/

BurgundyandGoldfaith wrote:I think I would have been happier if they'd taken the best available OT at #80 instead of Barnes.

Considering that no OT was drafted for a long time (a round and a half)...there apparently wasn't any value at OT in that round.

After Barnes was drafted with the 16th pick of the third round, no team took an offensive lineman for the rest of that round. Not one. The next offensive lineman to go was a center, Jonathan Lugis out of Arkansas, with the sixth pick of the fourth round (106 overall). The next player listed as an offensive tackle to go was T. J. Land of Eastern Michigan, who went a few picks later to Green Bay with the 109th overall pick. A Google search reveals, however, that it appears that he is being thought of more as a guard than as a tackle.


You have to go to the 35th pick of the fourth round, all the way to pick number 135, to find the next tackle taken. Troy Kropog of Tulane went to the Titans with a compensatory pick. Reaching by 50 picks, a round and a half, to fill a need is not the way to build through the draft.

haaa value is my.. point too.
go skins
not to mention team and for offense the the oline and the backs are going to bring it together , I am a firm believer that Jansens still got a good year left he is a great o lineman he has capable back ups and as a group the oline did ok last year the entire offense will be back I will back that group no problem, it's redskins football at its finest.
It will be a long season and thats waht is concerning me as stated in an earlier post if Jansen starts at right tackel then Heyer can platoon with him at the spot if needed, can't wait to see. I hope Zorn gets coach of the year.

I hope the guy who picked Chad Rinehart is fired by now. His name hasn't been brought up once as a possible replacement. I haven't even heard anybody mention what his potential is. The fact that we have to go and find a guy who until recently weighed 450 lbs as a possible replacement should all tell us something.

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:I hope the guy who picked Chad Rinehart is fired by now. His name hasn't been brought up once as a possible replacement. I haven't even heard anybody mention what his potential is. The fact that we have to go and find a guy who until recently weighed 450 lbs as a possible replacement should all tell us something.

Well, Chad Rinehart is a guard. Buges did say he was improving at the end of last year. Zorn mentioned him in his presser.

Chad R. got it rolling on occasion. They moved around quite a bit in the pass protection. I bet he has hit the wieghts and has a ton of confidence coming in. He I would think is backing up Dockary this year.

redskins14ru wrote:Chad Rinehart got it rolling on occasion. They moved him around quite a bit in pass protection. I bet he has hit the weights and has a ton of confidence coming in. I would think he is backing up Dockery this year.

well that, (with a little editing!) certainly made me feel a whole lot better about our O line situation

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:His name hasn't been brought up once as a possible replacement.

Wrong.

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:I haven't even heard anybody mention what his potential is.

Now this is correct. YOU haven't heard anything. That's because apparently YOU don't follow the Redskins as closely as some of us.

Wahoo McDaniels wrote: The fact that we have to go and find a guy who until recently weighed 450 lbs as a possible replacement should all tell us something.

Wrong...again... 1st and foremost he wasn't brought in to supplant Rhinehart. 2nd, I can't believe you're whining about having extra depth. 3rd, the guy can play more than 1 position and was most likely brought in to aid at the tackle position.

So basically...you're entire post was incorrect.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:So basically...you're entire post was incorrect.

Ouch.

However, to mitigate your nasty post a bit, I think I'll point out the following: it's "your entire post," not "you're entire post" (unless you really meant "you are entire post").

PulpExposure wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:So basically...you're entire post was incorrect.

Ouch.

However, to mitigate your nasty post a bit, I think I'll point out the following: it's "your entire post," not "you're entire post" (unless you really meant "you are entire post").

I have a right to be retarded.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:So basically...you're entire post was incorrect.

Ouch.

However, to mitigate your nasty post a bit, I think I'll point out the following: it's "your entire post," not "you're entire post" (unless you really meant "you are entire post").

I have a right to be retarded.

CLL, no one likes a mean retard.

The main point I have, and I know everyone will refute this because "I don't know this for sure", is that Cody Glenn was going to go undrafted. There were players at the OT position in round 5 many people, if not the redskins, thought would be successful in the NFL. Nobody thinks Cody Glenn is going to be successful, I hope he is, but I doubt it. He would have gone undrafted, at which point the team could have signed him as an undrafted free agent. At least take him in the 7th instead of the 5th.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:His name hasn't been brought up once as a possible replacement.

Wrong.

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:I haven't even heard anybody mention what his potential is.

Now this is correct. YOU haven't heard anything. That's because apparently YOU don't follow the Redskins as closely as some of us.

Wahoo McDaniels wrote: The fact that we have to go and find a guy who until recently weighed 450 lbs as a possible replacement should all tell us something.

Wrong...again... 1st and foremost he wasn't brought in to supplant Rhinehart. 2nd, I can't believe you're whining about having extra depth. 3rd, the guy can play more than 1 position and was most likely brought in to aid at the tackle position.

So basically...you're entire post was incorrect.

Alright, Luva Luva, if that's your real name. Please show me where I'm wrong. So, Rinehart is in the running for the Tackle job? What is Rinehart's potential since you follow the team so closely?

If you even mention the Skins press release that said Rinehart is going to compete at Guard, I'm going to laugh my butt off. This is what you call controlling the news. Cerrato doesn't want to look like a fool for his 2008 draft class so he spins every story to make it look like they were all great picks. Remember the story about how they all made the team and Frost ripped him as not knowing what he's doing. Then we cut Brooks, then we cut Hamilton, Tryon didn't play at all (and then we drafted Barnes this year), Kelly stayed hurt all year, Davis barely played and everyone was scratching their head about the draft class....and then there was Rinehart who received an Incomplete grade 'cause nobody saw him play. Mainly because he was only active for 2 games. So now people are starting to question that pick and you counter that move by saying that he's slated for Guard....brilliant move.

This is what I know....Rinehart was drafted to be the heir apparent to Jansen at Tackle and to provide O-Line depth at the beginning. The Skins figured out when he got into camp that they couldn't play him at Tackle. But as Mel Kiper likes to say, the best thing about Tackles is that if you get them and they can't play the position you wanted, you can always move them to Guard and get some value out them (see Mandarich in his later days with Indianapolis). THIS is the point I was making. He was slated for Tackle and we burned a 3rd on him for this reason. We found out that he can't play there and we now are trying the back-up plan...to move him to guard. If he can't play there, then we really have a problem.

Here's what tells me that there are concerns about him and his ability to play:

- He was active for 2 games all year...and only after the Samuels went on the IR. It's not that he didn't play...he wasn't ACTIVE. They played Geisinger and

- There's moving him after 1 year.

- They signed Mike Williams.


And for your information, I wasn't whining about depth (and frankly, I don't know how you came to this conclusion). My comment was with respect to the desperation that is shown by the team when you sign a guy who has let his weight balloon to 450 lbs and hasn't played since 2005. This is borderline nuts.

You're the one that is dead wrong in your post.

is chad R. not improving in the offseason he was a rookie and played a ton of ball it seems like maybe he is ok, not a bust well if there is such a thing as a third round bust
I see the point and like many think we could be optimistic but thats not all we could see him as quality depth . I would like to see a projected depth chart maybe that will solve the situation
If Chad R. starts then I will be shocked

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:His name hasn't been brought up once as a possible replacement.

Wrong.

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:I haven't even heard anybody mention what his potential is.

Now this is correct. YOU haven't heard anything. That's because apparently YOU don't follow the Redskins as closely as some of us.

Wahoo McDaniels wrote: The fact that we have to go and find a guy who until recently weighed 450 lbs as a possible replacement should all tell us something.

Wrong...again... 1st and foremost he wasn't brought in to supplant Rhinehart. 2nd, I can't believe you're whining about having extra depth. 3rd, the guy can play more than 1 position and was most likely brought in to aid at the tackle position.

So basically...you're entire post was incorrect.

Alright, Luva Luva, if that's your real name. Please show me where I'm wrong. So, Rinehart is in the running for the Tackle job? What is Rinehart's potential since you follow the team so closely?

If you even mention the Skins press release that said Rinehart is going to compete at Guard, I'm going to laugh my butt off. This is what you call controlling the news. Cerrato doesn't want to look like a fool for his 2008 draft class so he spins every story to make it look like they were all great picks. Remember the story about how they all made the team and Frost ripped him as not knowing what he's doing. Then we cut Brooks, then we cut Hamilton, Tryon didn't play at all (and then we drafted Barnes this year), Kelly stayed hurt all year, Davis barely played and everyone was scratching their head about the draft class....and then there was Rinehart who received an Incomplete grade 'cause nobody saw him play. Mainly because he was only active for 2 games. So now people are starting to question that pick and you counter that move by saying that he's slated for Guard....brilliant move.

This is what I know....Rinehart was drafted to be the heir apparent to Jansen at Tackle and to provide O-Line depth at the beginning. The Skins figured out when he got into camp that they couldn't play him at Tackle. But as Mel Kiper likes to say, the best thing about Tackles is that if you get them and they can't play the position you wanted, you can always move them to Guard and get some value out them (see Mandarich in his later days with Indianapolis). THIS is the point I was making. He was slated for Tackle and we burned a 3rd on him for this reason. We found out that he can't play there and we now are trying the back-up plan...to move him to guard. If he can't play there, then we really have a problem.

Here's what tells me that there are concerns about him and his ability to play:

- He was active for 2 games all year...and only after the Samuels went on the IR. It's not that he didn't play...he wasn't ACTIVE. They played Geisinger and

- There's moving him after 1 year.

- They signed Mike Williams.


And for your information, I wasn't whining about depth (and frankly, I don't know how you came to this conclusion). My comment was with respect to the desperation that is shown by the team when you sign a guy who has let his weight balloon to 450 lbs and hasn't played since 2005. This is borderline nuts.

You're the one that is dead wrong in your post.

Chad was drafted as a guard. Specifically as heir apparent to Kendall. Geisenger was active because he can play center.

As far as potential goes...here's JLC's read on Rinehart from inside the Skins Front Office

Third-round pick Chad Rinehart is not seen as a capable player at this point, according to numerous sources involved in the meeting, and is not projected as being anywhere close to able to replace Pete Kendall or Randy Thomas at guard. Many coaches, including Bugel, worry about his confidence and ability, sources said. He is not being counted on to produce much in 2009, and if he did it would be a surprising development. Similarly, Stephon Heyer is not viewed as a starter; he's okay for depth purposes but with Jon Jansen no longer deemed a starter, either, they need to do something at right tackle (I still expect them to draft a tackle with their first pick).

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redski ... nel-m.html