The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

fleetus wrote:Holt and Burress would both be huge upgrades allowing Moss to be a #2 and giving the Campbell a more reliable third down and red zone threat. The real questions around those two guys would be price and in Burress' case, his legal status.

I doubt if Burress would be effective playing in shackles & handcuffs.

the redskins need devin thomas and malcolm kelly to stay healthy and they will be better. i think in a few years devin thomas will be starting if he can run routes tight

sniksder46721 wrote:the redskins need devin thomas and malcolm kelly to stay healthy and they will be better. i think in a few years devin thomas will be starting if he can run routes tight

I think Thomas will be starting this year, and to tell you the truth, when I go back and watch games from last year, every time he gets his hands on the ball, he's pretty impressive. He's fast for a big receiver, runs hard and tough, and runs with determination. I like his potential in this offense.

Our WR's aren't an enigma. We aren't living in some weird alternate dimension where every single one of our WR's are horrible and sub-par.... They aren't the main problem.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Our WR's aren't an enigma. We aren't living in some weird alternate dimension where every single one of our WR's are horrible and sub-par.... They aren't the main problem.

I don't know that there is a "main problem" on offense. I don't think that there is one of the part on offense that you could fix to automatically make the entire unit better. Zorn's playcalling, wide receiver play, JC's performance, and offensive line play are all significant problems. Heck, you can even make the argument that not having a complementary backup running back to CP is a problem.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Our WR's aren't an enigma. We aren't living in some weird alternate dimension where every single one of our WR's are horrible and sub-par.... They aren't the main problem.

I don't know that there is a "main problem" on offense. I don't think that there is one of the part that you could fix to automatically make the entire unit better. Zorn's playcalling, wide receiver play, JC's performance, and offensive line play are all significant problems. Heck, you can even make the argument that not having a complementary backup running back to CP is a problem.

Agreed, and all of these problems are interrelated.

Are the WRs subpar, or is their production subpar because of the QB? Is the QB subpar, or is his production subpar because of the WRs or OL? Is the playcalling subpar, or is the playcalling restricted because of the WR, OL, or QB? Who knows?

i cant say it enough. the 'main' problem is the O LINE!!!!! OOOOOOOOOHHHHH LINE!!!!!!

though maybe we should trade our number one pick for an overpriced wide out. or maybe we should dump JZ and get a new offense for JC to learn, i dont think this one is simple enough, or maybe its too simple. actually i think the problem is the fact that JC has a slow release... well, maybe its not maybe its our DTs. we better spend our picks on the D, they really did suck last year and AH is not going to help anything.


O LINE!!! geebus.


(pulpexposure, this is in responce to the rest of the thread, i didnt even read your past post till now. i think you may have expressed what i was attempting to with more eloquence.)

I don't know the Redskins financials but I'd love to add a guy like Holt. High character, excellent route runner, I think he's got a lot left in the tank.

I feel that we could win our division with our current WR corp.

Maybe if we had vintage McNabb, Brady or Manning... but this group of WR is clearly sub-par. A good not great QB like Jason Campbell needs some talent for this team to be successful.

Skinsfan55 wrote:Maybe if we had vintage McNabb, Brady or Manning... but this group of WR is clearly sub-par. A good not great QB like Jason Campbell needs some talent for this team to be successful.

You more or less admitted in your post that Jason simply can't use them effectively... Why replace 5 guys when you can replace 1?

You don't need Peyton to use these guys...give me...

Kurt Warner
Donovan
Big Ben
Phillip Rivers
Kerry Collins
Jake Delhomme
Matt Ryan
Eli
Aaron Rogers
Carson Palmer (pre injury)
Romo
Drew Brees

We need offensive line help. We could improve at WR but they AREN'T holding Jason back. Not at all. Jason has NOT outgrown them as of yet. I simply feel that Jason is not at a level where we can say he has outgrown the WR talent around him. Once he's being hindered by them, then let's talk. He's worse or at best just as good as them.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:Maybe if we had vintage McNabb, Brady or Manning... but this group of WR is clearly sub-par. A good not great QB like Jason Campbell needs some talent for this team to be successful.

You more or less admitted in your post that Jason simply can't use them effectively... Why replace 5 guys when you can replace 1?

You don't need Peyton to use these guys...give me...

Kurt Warner
Donovan
Big Ben
Phillip Rivers
Kerry Collins
Jake Delhomme
Matt Ryan
Eli
Aaron Rogers
Carson Palmer (pre injury)
Romo
Drew Brees

We need offensive line help. We could improve at WR but they AREN'T holding Jason back. Not at all. Jason has NOT outgrown them as of yet. I simply feel that Jason is not at a level where we can say he has outgrown the WR talent around him. Once he's being hindered by them, then let's talk. He's worse or at best just as good as them.

correct sir

For Jason to be successful we will need...

1. Ocho Cinco
2. Reggie Wayne
3. S. Moss

That's basically how it comes off... Let's surround Jason with the BEST talent. It's not going to happen. We have talent, we have decent guys. Jason needs to stop being a baby, grow a pair of nads and step his game up. He's not worth revamping the offense around and thats why he's being shopped around.

Now I'm not fan of some of our WR's. Jake knows this cus I've gone off about it at his house. But to sit here and pick them apart cus Jason needs help...? Heccckkk noooo. We can help Jason by fixing the line but the rest mostly falls on Jason.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:Maybe if we had vintage McNabb, Brady or Manning... but this group of WR is clearly sub-par. A good not great QB like Jason Campbell needs some talent for this team to be successful.

You more or less admitted in your post that Jason simply can't use them effectively... Why replace 5 guys when you can replace 1?

You don't need Peyton to use these guys...give me...

Kurt Warner
Donovan
Big Ben
Phillip Rivers
Kerry Collins
Jake Delhomme
Matt Ryan
Eli
Aaron Rogers
Carson Palmer (pre injury)
Romo
Drew Brees

We need offensive line help. We could improve at WR but they AREN'T holding Jason back. Not at all. Jason has NOT outgrown them as of yet. I simply feel that Jason is not at a level where we can say he has outgrown the WR talent around him. Once he's being hindered by them, then let's talk. He's worse or at best just as good as them.

Chris you make a valid point. I have to ask this though. Do all these quarterbacks you mentioned above have better receivers than we do? (going by last year only) I realize that Jason needs a more sense of urgency in the 4th quarter. Without getting into how I feel JC improved because this just infuriates some people...Lets talk about why you feel our receivers would have gotten open more often. (the quick release?) Does Big Ben get rid of the ball fast or wait for receivers to get open? I did see some plays where our receivers did get open and JC didn't. I also saw alot of dropped balls. How does this change from 8and8 to something way better? Just curious.

I know it's nitpicking, but I would remove Eli from that list. He had a legit #1 in Burress. Look what happened after Burress shot himself. A good line and a legit #1 is what we need.

VetSkinsFan wrote:I know it's nitpicking, but I would remove Eli from that list. He had a legit #1 in Burress. Look what happened after Burress shot himself. A good line and a legit #1 is what we need.

It was either him or Joe Flacco and everyone *past tense/bad word* a brick the last time I said something about him. And he had ZERO WR'S!

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:I know it's nitpicking, but I would remove Eli from that list. He had a legit #1 in Burress. Look what happened after Burress shot himself. A good line and a legit #1 is what we need.

It was either him or Joe Flacco and everyone *past tense/bad word* a brick the last time I said something about him. And he had ZERO WR'S!

Mason's a pretty good WR isn't he? j/k... I agree about Flacco. He managed the games very well I though. He's got potential I think.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:I know it's nitpicking, but I would remove Eli from that list. He had a legit #1 in Burress. Look what happened after Burress shot himself. A good line and a legit #1 is what we need.

It was either him or Joe Flacco and everyone *past tense/bad word* a brick the last time I said something about him. And he had ZERO WR'S!

I think I might pick Flacco over Eli actually. Though Flacco was put in a very nice position; a great (scoring) defense, a good running game...and he didn't have a lot of pressure on him. Still performed well for a rookie, however.

PulpExposure wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:I know it's nitpicking, but I would remove Eli from that list. He had a legit #1 in Burress. Look what happened after Burress shot himself. A good line and a legit #1 is what we need.

It was either him or Joe Flacco and everyone *past tense/bad word* a brick the last time I said something about him. And he had ZERO WR'S!

I think I might pick Flacco over Eli actually. Though Flacco was put in a very nice position; a great (scoring) defense, a good running game...and he didn't have a lot of pressure on him. Still performed well for a rookie, however.

he did do well for a rook but that does nothing to convince me that we should use our pick (if hes there) to get sanchez. if we get rid of JC and pick up sanchez, we would have two qbs with a total of no experience.. ie set up for disaster.

TincoSkin wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:I know it's nitpicking, but I would remove Eli from that list. He had a legit #1 in Burress. Look what happened after Burress shot himself. A good line and a legit #1 is what we need.

It was either him or Joe Flacco and everyone *past tense/bad word* a brick the last time I said something about him. And he had ZERO WR'S!

I think I might pick Flacco over Eli actually. Though Flacco was put in a very nice position; a great (scoring) defense, a good running game...and he didn't have a lot of pressure on him. Still performed well for a rookie, however.

he did do well for a rook but that does nothing to convince me that we should use our pick (if hes there) to get sanchez. if we get rid of JC and pick up sanchez, we would have two qbs with a total of no experience.. ie set up for disaster.

Like a 2-6 disaster, right...?

I'm in no way supporting getting Sanchez. But the Ravens did exactly that. They had Flacco and Troy Smith... Boller was on IR. They did pretty good.

TincoSkin wrote:he did do well for a rook but that does nothing to convince me that we should use our pick (if hes there) to get sanchez. if we get rid of JC and pick up sanchez, we would have two qbs with a total of no experience.. ie set up for disaster.

The rumors are just running wild right now and they're all stemming from Jason La Confora and the Washington Post. Every other media outlet in the country has, as always, latched on to JLC's word as if it's gospel. JLC is currently spreading more rumors, now talking about trading up for Orakpo and others. I guess if he reports on every possible option or scenario, at least he'll be able to say he was right about one of them.

But you're right, there's no way the Skins would draft Sanchez, cut or trade Campbell, and head into the season with Collins, Sanchez and Brennan... a career back-up and basically two rookies.

Portis was live on an ESPN Special last night and made a valid point. Even if the Skins draft Sanchez, Campbell would still be the starter while Sanchez would apply motivation and competition. Portis said that one day the Skins will eventually draft a RB and he'll have to compete for his job as well, just past of the business.

Even though most draft experts grade Sanchez in the top two QB prospects of this class, and some even saying he's moved up to the #1 rated QB of this class, all pretty much agree that since Sanchez has only been a one-year starter and is coming out as an underclassman, he'll need to sit for a year and learn. Therefore, even if the Skins take Sanchez, Campbell is still the starter for this coming season.

That would be the ideal scenario, SF.

Sadly, even if it does come to pass, I don´t think Campbell will handle the pressure of constantly looking over his shoulder.

Skinsfan55 wrote:Maybe if we had vintage McNabb, Brady or Manning... but this group of WR is clearly sub-par. A good not great QB like Jason Campbell needs some talent for this team to be successful.

Sub-par really! Look at our division and tell me what team clearly has better WR than us. I don't think you can . The Giants have nothing. Same with the Cowboys. The EGirls might have the best of the four teams, but not by much.

We just have the worst QB in our division. Our OL needs some help and it is old, but for the first eight games last year there wasn't another unit playing as well.

I'm just sick of seeing JC make throws that should be easy TD and turning them into incomplete passes or big gains that don't score. He left a ton of point out there on the field with some of his poor throws. If he is still our QB this season, I hope JZ taught JC how to thow a quick slant. JC is the only QB I have ever seen that can't throw a quick slant!

El Mexican wrote:That would be the ideal scenario, SF.

Sadly, even if it does come to pass, I don´t think Campbell will handle the pressure of constantly looking over his shoulder.

Have you seen him handle the ZERO pressure of NOT looking over his shoulder?

skinsfan#33 wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:Maybe if we had vintage McNabb, Brady or Manning... but this group of WR is clearly sub-par. A good not great QB like Jason Campbell needs some talent for this team to be successful.

Sub-par really! Look at our division and tell me what team clearly has better WR than us. I don't think you can . The Giants have nothing. Same with the Cowboys. The EGirls might have the best of the four teams, but not by much.

I don't think I can agree with that. Last year the Cowboys and the Giants both had #1 receivers. The Giants having Burress as a #1 really loosened things up for Steve Smith. Since Burress being gone, I can now agree if that thought was projected on this year's team.

The same goes for the Cowboys. TO/Witten really opened things up for the other receivers. Now that TO is gone, we'll really see what the Cowboys passing game is all about.