Skins face dilemma at 13th pick

[Deadskins]

The top of my board is Orakpo, Andre Smith and Maualuga, in that order.

CT was right about that windsock thing!

[fleetus]

In fact, some people grade him [Matthews] higher than Cushing for this very reason.

I did see that some actually have Matthews rated higher. I agree all three were very impressive players and certainly recognize that some people have them graded differently.

And for the record, I did watch many of the USC games. One of my neighbors is a USC alum and I'd sneak over to his house at night, due to the time difference of USC playing on the West Coast, to watch some of the games. My wife would end up calling there looking for me... it was pretty funny actually... at least to me anyway, probably not to my wife.

did you type it that small because your wife's eyesight is poor?

I have to say, I personally don't like the situation the Skins are in here. (hence the title of this thread) We don't have enough picks to deal with. Our only really hopeful leverage to attract a buyer for the 13th pick is a Stafford/Sanchez slide. Probably not going to happen all the way down to 13, but you never know. So we most likely will be sitting there at 13 with the clock ticking.

We need a RT most. I feel the need at RT is much higher than DE and OLB. You don't want to draft a Wr because we just drafted 2 last year and they need at least another season to show something (anything!!!). You don't want a RB with Portis/Betts. You don't want any secondary (not that there is much to choose from in the 1st round) So we're staring at Smith, Oher, Cushing, Matthews, E. Brown, T. Jackson, R. Ayers, maybe even Maualuga (depending on your MLB/OLB view of him). I just don't like it. My favorite players, the ones I feel have the character and work ethic worthy of a high 1st round pick are not considered either the top talents or best fits for the Skins (Matthews, Brown, Maualuga). If you go for talent alone, you end up with possibly the biggest problem child of the draft, Andre. So, the only happy mediums seem to be Cushing, Matthews and E. Brown with possibly a look at Ayers as a wild card. I'm still debating Cushing vs. matthews myself. I think Cushing might be a better fit in our system, day one, but I like Matthews better for his character, durability and pass rushing skills.

[Deadskins]

I have to say, I personally don't like the situation the Skins are in here. (hence the title of this thread)

Maybe you need to look up the definition of the word dilemma. I'm just saying.

[SkinsFreak]

The top of my board is Orakpo, Andre Smith and Maualuga, in that order.

CT was right about that windsock thing!

What are you talking about?

Are you only supposed to identify ONE player, and then hope that he'll be there? Every team establishes a grade for every player in the top of the draft. Then you build two boards; one for simply grading the best players, like a top 64 list, and one that's based on your team needs.

When I identified Orakpo, Smith and Maualuga, I was simply basing that off the Skins needs and who I thought might have a chance of being there. I could have added several other names in front of those guys, like Curry, J. Smith, Monroe... etc., but I'm assuming they'll be gone. I also could have added a few more names behind them, like Cush, Matthews, Oher and Britton.

It's really not a windsock, it's simply a most desirable list. And to be honest, it could change, just like Kiper and McShay change their lists as the draft approaches.

[Skinsfan55]

It's a small sample size but I can't believe Brian Cushing is ahead in the polls.

He would be a reach if he was selected at 13 and that pick could ONLY happen if there was a significant run on tackles early on. The Redskins will take the best offensive tackle available, it's by far our biggest weakness.

[fleetus]

I have to say, I personally don't like the situation the Skins are in here. (hence the title of this thread)

Maybe you need to look up the definition of the word dilemma. I'm just saying.

Maybe if all your offering in a post is a potshot, you should know what you're talking about

Dilemma: is a problem offering at least two solutions or possibilities, of which none are practically acceptable

which is exactly what I intended it to mean in my thread, so, not sure what your point was.

[fleetus]

The top of my board is Orakpo, Andre Smith and Maualuga, in that order.

CT was right about that windsock thing!

What are you talking about?

I think Deadskins might have been and typing.

[fleetus]

Part of the dilemma at 13 is that there isn't any real exciting player worthy of trade up interest and there aren't many slam dunk offensive linemen likely to be sitting there at 13 either. But, with the Cutler trade announcement, some top 12 teams including the Lions and Browns, could make the trade. That could very well impact who they pick and/or if the Broncos own that pick. So, it could mean Stafford and Sanchez falling and causing more of a stir for us at 13. Still a longshot, but I'd rather move down 5-10 spots with the Bears or Buccaneers for example, and still pick up one of the players we're interested in, like Cushing, Matthews, Oher etc.

[SkinsSince96]

I voted for Michael Oher/OT/Ole Miss. I have him ranked right now as the 2nd best OT in the draft behind Jason Smith and ahead of Eugene Monroe. Most people will say Monroe is better but I think Oher is just as good in pass protection as my #1 OT Jason Smith on game tape.

I really like Everette Brown and almost voted for him. He has insane burst coming off the edge and I think whoever gets him will get a Pro Bowler for years. I just like Oher better and our offensive line really needs a RT.

If the Skins cant get one of the big 4 OTs, Orakpo, or E. Brown id trade down. No one else has the value to be drated 13th for the needs we have. Michael Johnson, Brian Cushing, and Eben Britton are all really good players but id trade down and still probably get one of them.

I dont like Clay Matthews or Tyson Jackson in Washington though. Matthews imo is a bust and Jackson is like a young Phillip Daniels. If we do draft one of them I really hope its in a trade down.

[HEROHAMO]

Well of all the three Maualuga lead the team in tackles. He also did the same in 2007. That says alot when you are one of a bunch of talented defensive players. Taylor Mays is also part of that defensive bunch.

And it was Maualuga that won the Chuck Bednarik Award as the nation's top defensive player, not Cushing or Matthews. But you guys are missing the point. Teams build a draft board, they don't just go into a draft thinking about one player or one position. As I've said multiple times, the reason why you consider Maualuga is in case the top OT's or OLB have already been selected. The top of my board is Orakpo, Andre Smith and Maualuga, in that order.

And HEROMAMO, damn near everyone would like to take Crabtree. But the reason he's not being discussed is because he'll be LONG GONE!

I am starting to warm up to the idea of Maualuga quarterbacking our defense. Either way I wont be dissapointed, so long as we draft a play maker. Never can be a bad thing if you draft a playmaker.

[Deadskins]

I have to say, I personally don't like the situation the Skins are in here. (hence the title of this thread)

Maybe you need to look up the definition of the word dilemma. I'm just saying.

Maybe if all your offering in a post is a potshot, you should know what you're talking about

Dilemma: is a problem offering at least two solutions or possibilities, of which none are practically acceptable

which is exactly what I intended it to mean in my thread, so, not sure what your point was.

I don't know where you got that definition, but a dilemma is a is a situation with two or more equally undesirable solutions. I don't see the negatives here. Even using your definition, the word doesn't fit. But the misuse of that word is one of my pet peeves. It ranks up there with irregardless for me. Admittedly, I'm a bit of a grammar Nazi, though, and I did add the smiley, so don't take offense.

[SkinsFreak]

For the record, Cushing and Matthews were very impressive at USC's Pro Day workouts yesterday. Maualuga looked good in drills, but you could tell he was still moving cautiously due to his tender hamstring. He said he's not 100% yet.

If the team keeps their 13th pick and targets a LB, I wouldn't have a problem with Cushing. I still like Maualuga, but Cushing looked very good and if the doctors say his injury history is of no concern, I'd be happy with him as well.

[Deadskins]

The top of my board is Orakpo, Andre Smith and Maualuga, in that order.

CT was right about that windsock thing!

What are you talking about?

I think Deadskins might have been and typing.

I have been known to do that on occasion, but this is not one of them. SF stated on page one of this very thread that Andre Smith was his #1 pick. He voted that way in the poll, too.

[fleetus]

I have to say, I personally don't like the situation the Skins are in here. (hence the title of this thread)

Maybe you need to look up the definition of the word dilemma. I'm just saying.

Maybe if all your offering in a post is a potshot, you should know what you're talking about

Dilemma: is a problem offering at least two solutions or possibilities, of which none are practically acceptable

which is exactly what I intended it to mean in my thread, so, not sure what your point was.

I don't know where you got that definition, but a dilemma is a is a situation with two or more equally undesirable solutions. I don't see the negatives here. Even using your definition, the word doesn't fit. But the misuse of that word is one of my pet peeves. It ranks up there with irregardless for me. Admittedly, I'm a bit of a grammar Nazi, though, and I did add the smiley, so don't take offense.

Funny, because one of my pet peeves are people who bring semantic arguments to disrupt the flow of valid debate.

So are we butting heads or just butt heads?

Google's first hit on the word dilemma, good old Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilemma

notice they also use "stuck between a rock and a hard place" as an example.

I think it would be undesirable to stay at 13 with the options available to us. I also feel our options to move up or down from 13 to get better value are equally undesirable.

I feel those options, most likely, will not be worth what a #13 would bring most years. I believe we are in a third tier of the 1st round. There are 5 top tier players, blue-chippers. Then another 5 or so 2nd tier players who have a great combination of talent, potential and intangibles to make you think they will be great additions to the NFL. We are in a third tier where there about 15-18 players are all very good with some question marks. I feel the teams with the #20-25 picks will be getting very similar value to us at 13. I believe other teams know this and therefore will have very little interest in paying to move up to 13. Hence the dilemma. If you stay at 13, you may be unhappy. Yet the options to move out of 13 don't exist unless you do it on the cheap. Resulting again in disappointment. You gamble on a player viewed as a top tier talent with all sorts of character issues, again, unhappiness.

But hey, this is what separates the men from the boys. Real NFL FO's hunker down and split hairs over every rookie. The boys just give up and try to buy their players after someone else does the homework for them. If the Skins out scout the other teams, we will turn our 13th pick into a great addition to the team.

[SkinsFreak]

SF stated on page one of this very thread that Andre Smith was his #1 pick. He voted that way in the poll, too.

Actually, I can understand the confusion. When I was talking about Andre Smith, I meant from the perspective of who might be available. Orakpo has always been my true #1 desire, but I know he'll be long gone. His stock rose over the past few weeks, at least since the combine. There was one point early on when he was projected in the 10-15 range and I think Kiper had him going our way as well. But his stock has risen since and he'll be loooong gone by #13. If Andre is there, I'd take him. I know fleetus doesn't like that move, but I do... at least for today.

[funbuncher]

I came to this thread and was surprised that Maualuga wasn't a choice in the poll, but then found he was the main topic of discussion. I'd vote for him if I could.

Thing is, I agree that OT is the bigger need, but Maualuga is more of a sure thing than our other choices at 13, and I prefer to draft the best player available whenever remotely reasonable.

As for Cushing being a better fit for us on the outside, he is almost identical in size to Rey-Rey, but slightly slower, and they have both played outside at USC at one time or another, so combine that with Cushing's injury history (we've had enough of that), and Maualuga's penchant for making the game changing plays, the choice is an easy one for me. Truth is, he had me at "biggest hitter in the draft" and "best ILB prospect in 5 years".

Also, good point whoever it was that mentioned the idea of bringing some of ST's headhunter aggressiveness back to our D. I can smell what the Rock is cookin!

I heard somewhere that Cerrato and Pete Carrol are tight, so if we do choose a USC LB, no matter which one we get, it's safe to assume that he comes highly recommended.

Then we can stilll target a OT in round 3. Check out the Cadogan kid from Penn State. He has a lot of potential along with a few other guys that should be around in the 3rd. The projected drop-off from the top 4 OT's to them is less than the difference between Rey-Rey and the LB's that will likely be available in the 3rd.

I've also heard that this draft's 1st tier has about 13 or so players in it, and then a drop-off, so we are in a great position.

Also, PSA for whoever is interested, a month or so ago, I discovered that there are a plethora (El Guapo) of FREE draft related podcasts availlable on iTunes. it's good, yes. Christmas is coming boys!

[fleetus]

I came to this thread and was surprised that Maualuga wasn't a choice in the poll, but then found he was the main topic of discussion. I'd vote for him if I could.

Thing is, I agree that OT is the bigger need, but Maualuga is more of a sure thing than our other choices at 13, and I prefer to draft the best player available whenever remotely reasonable.

As for Cushing being a better fit for us on the outside, he is almost identical in size to Rey-Rey, but slightly slower, and they have both played outside at USC at one time or another, so combine that with Cushing's injury history (we've had enough of that), and Maualuga's penchant for making the game changing plays, the choice is an easy one for me. Truth is, he had me at "biggest hitter in the draft" and "best ILB prospect in 5 years".

Also, good point whoever it was that mentioned the idea of bringing some of ST's headhunter aggressiveness back to our D. I can smell what the Rock is cookin!

I heard somewhere that Cerrato and Pete Carrol are tight, so if we do choose a USC LB, no matter which one we get, it's safe to assume that he comes highly recommended.

Then we can stilll target a OT in round 3. Check out the Cadogan kid from Penn State. He has a lot of potential along with a few other guys that should be around in the 3rd. The projected drop-off from the top 4 OT's to them is less than the difference between Rey-Rey and the LB's that will likely be available in the 3rd.

I've also heard that this draft's 1st tier has about 13 or so players in it, and then a drop-off, so we are in a great position.

Also, PSA for whoever is interested, a month or so ago, I discovered that there are a plethora (El Guapo) of FREE draft related podcasts availlable on iTunes. it's good, yes. Christmas is coming boys!

With needs at OT, OG, DE and OLB, I just don't see the skins spending their only pick of the top 75 on a position that already has one of the top 3 most solid players of our whole team, London Fletcher. I like Maualuga and generally agree you should draft best player available, so long as it makes sense. Will he get substantial playing time, will he work in your system etc. Not sure how much playing time Rey would get behind Fletcher. So, I don't see it as more than a remote chance.

[PulpExposure]

I came to this thread and was surprised that Maualuga wasn't a choice in the poll, but then found he was the main topic of discussion. I'd vote for him if I could.

Thing is, I agree that OT is the bigger need, but Maualuga is more of a sure thing than our other choices at 13, and I prefer to draft the best player available whenever remotely reasonable.

As for Cushing being a better fit for us on the outside, he is almost identical in size to Rey-Rey, but slightly slower, and they have both played outside at USC at one time or another, so combine that with Cushing's injury history (we've had enough of that), and Maualuga's penchant for making the game changing plays, the choice is an easy one for me. Truth is, he had me at "biggest hitter in the draft" and "best ILB prospect in 5 years".

Also, good point whoever it was that mentioned the idea of bringing some of ST's headhunter aggressiveness back to our D. I can smell what the Rock is cookin!

I heard somewhere that Cerrato and Pete Carrol are tight, so if we do choose a USC LB, no matter which one we get, it's safe to assume that he comes highly recommended.

Then we can stilll target a OT in round 3. Check out the Cadogan kid from Penn State. He has a lot of potential along with a few other guys that should be around in the 3rd. The projected drop-off from the top 4 OT's to them is less than the difference between Rey-Rey and the LB's that will likely be available in the 3rd.

I've also heard that this draft's 1st tier has about 13 or so players in it, and then a drop-off, so we are in a great position.

Also, PSA for whoever is interested, a month or so ago, I discovered that there are a plethora (El Guapo) of FREE draft related podcasts availlable on iTunes. it's good, yes. Christmas is coming boys!

With needs at OT, OG, DE and OLB, I just don't see the skins spending their only pick of the top 75 on a position that already has one of the top 3 most solid players of our whole team, London Fletcher. I like Maualuga and generally agree you should draft best player available, so long as it makes sense. Will he get substantial playing time, will he work in your system etc. Not sure how much playing time Rey would get behind Fletcher. So, I don't see it as more than a remote chance.

I think the idea behind drafting Maluaga is that he'd play SLB, and then when Fletcher retired, he'd take over for MLB.

I like him a lot, but I'd still go OT if we can, though.

[SkinsFreak]

I think the idea behind drafting Maluaga is that he'd play SLB, and then when Fletcher retired, he'd take over for MLB.

I like him a lot, but I'd still go OT if we can, though.

Totally agree, Pulp. Interestingly, Colin Cowherd had Pete Carroll on his radio show today. Answering questions about the LB's, Carroll said teams may find that Cushing is actually better suited on the inside, depending on the scheme. Regarding Maualuga, Carroll said teams will be most impressed with his side-line to side-line speed, coverage skills and the fact that he's a big hitter. That came straight from Carroll. So based on his take, it appears Cushing and Maualuga could play both inside and outside. I think it's just a matter of taste... some like Cush and some like Rey.

But like you, Pulp, I still see OT as a slightly bigger need. But, at this point in time, many of these draft guys now predict that all four top OT's could go in the top 10-12 (Oher, Smith, Smith and Monroe). When you see the teams "put on the clock" on shows like the Path To The Draft" or see other teams message boards, it's also amazing how many teams are hoping to trade back.

[fleetus]

I think the idea behind drafting Maluaga is that he'd play SLB, and then when Fletcher retired, he'd take over for MLB.

I like him a lot, but I'd still go OT if we can, though.

Totally agree, Pulp. Interestingly, Colin Cowherd had Pete Carroll on his radio show today. Answering questions about the LB's, Carroll said teams may find that Cushing is actually better suited on the inside, depending on the scheme. Regarding Maualuga, Carroll said teams will be most impressed with his side-line to side-line speed, coverage skills and the fact that he's a big hitter. That came straight from Carroll. So based on his take, it appears Cushing and Maualuga could play both inside and outside. I think it's just a matter of taste... some like Cush and some like Rey.

But like you, Pulp, I still see OT as a slightly bigger need. But, at this point in time, many of these draft guys now predict that all four top OT's could go in the top 10-12 (Oher, Smith, Smith and Monroe). When you see the teams "put on the clock" on shows like the Path To The Draft" or see other teams message boards, it's also amazing how many teams are hoping to trade back.

Interesting stuff. I have to say, boy do I like Maualuga, personally. But I'm not sold that he would do as well at SLB. It seems like MLB is one of those positions you can scout and find great players in later rounds sometimes. Kind of like RB too. So, I would rather draft a later round guy to groom behind Fletcher. But, that's right , we did that already and his name is H. B. Blades.

[funbuncher]

I think the most likely scenario will find us unable to trade back, and 3 of the 4 top tackles gone. Obviously, I have no idea what our draft board looks like, but at that point, I think/hope we are choosing between Oher and Maualuga.

[SkinsFreak]

Interesting stuff. I have to say, boy do I like Maualuga, personally. But I'm not sold that he would do as well at SLB.

Why? If Carroll says he can, what makes you think he can't? Just curious.

It seems like MLB is one of those positions you can scout and find great players in later rounds sometimes. Kind of like RB too. So, I would rather draft a later round guy to groom behind Fletcher. But, that's right , we did that already and his name is H. B. Blades.

Right, and in the latest article on Redskins.com, Blades is in the mix to play... that's right, OLB. But again, Blades isn't even in the same stratosphere talent wise as Maualuga. So I'm not sure why Blades, a 5'10 former 6th round ILB can play outside, but a far more talented player like Maualuga, can't. Blades is perfect for depth, but makes me slightly nervous as a starter.

And just to reiterate, I don't think Maualuga is a "primary target", as OT is a more pressing need, in my opinion. But if both Oher and Smith are gone, there's such a drop-off in talent to the next best OT that LB then has to be considered, that's all I'm saying. If we can get Oher or Smith, that's the way to go, in my opinion. I've seen some coaches tape on Oher now and I'm warming up to the idea of taking him as well. He could be very good at RT.

[CanesSkins26]

So I'm not sure why Blades, a 5'10 former 6th round ILB can play outside, but a far more talented player like Maualuga, can't.

Blades shouldn't be in the mix to start on the outside, not at his size. Filling in for a game or two when we have injuries is one thing, playing on the outside on a regular basis while vastly undersized is totally different.

[yupchagee]

Interesting stuff. I have to say, boy do I like Maualuga, personally. But I'm not sold that he would do as well at SLB.

Why? If Carroll says he can, what makes you think he can't? Just curious.

It seems like MLB is one of those positions you can scout and find great players in later rounds sometimes. Kind of like RB too. So, I would rather draft a later round guy to groom behind Fletcher. But, that's right , we did that already and his name is H. B. Blades.

Right, and in the latest article on Redskins.com, Blades is in the mix to play... that's right, OLB. But again, Blades isn't even in the same stratosphere talent wise as Maualuga. So I'm not sure why Blades, a 5'10 former 6th round ILB can play outside, but a far more talented player like Maualuga, can't. Blades is perfect for depth, but makes me slightly nervous as a starter.

And just to reiterate, I don't think Maualuga is a "primary target", as OT is a more pressing need, in my opinion. But if both Oher and Smith are gone, there's such a drop-off in talent to the next best OT that LB then has to be considered, that's all I'm saying. If we can get Oher or Smith, that's the way to go, in my opinion. I've seen some coaches tape on Oher now and I'm warming up to the idea of taking him as well. He could be very good at RT.

You don't use the 13th overall pick on a RT. We can fill that hole in the 3rd round. Go LB or DE in the 1st.

[T 4D]

Maualuga anyone?