Hypothetical trade...

[CanesSkins26]

There's a pretty damning article about Cutler on CBSSportsline today.

From it...comes this lovely part:

Yeah, I know, it wasn't Cutler's fault. It might have helped if Denver had a running back who could stay in the lineup for three weeks or a defense that didn't leak like the Titanic. But all the Broncos had to do was win one freakin' game in three tries, and they couldn't pull it off. Blame the defense all you want, but look what Cutler did down the stretch: Nothing.

In his last three games he had two touchdown passes and four interceptions. Worse, he lost to Buffalo at home on the next to last weekend of the season. I don't want to hear how he threw for 359 yards or 316 the next weekend against San Diego. He didn't win. Period. End of story.

2 TDs and 4 INTs is not pressure production when you need to win a game. That's contributing to the problem, not solving it, as you'd want a franchise QB to do.

That article leaves us quite a few important facts. For starters, Cutler ran for 2 td's during that 3 game stretch so he had 4 td's and 4 int's. Secondly, Denver's D was the most responsible for those losses. They gave up 30, 30, and 52 points respectively in the three losses. Not sure what you expect a qb to do when his D is giving up over 30 points a game.

The article mentions the Buffalo loss, but during that game Cutler accounted for 389 yards and 2 td's, and averaged 8 yards per completion. Cutler also led the Broncos on a late game drive and Brandon Stokley dropped what would have been the game tying td with less than a minute left in the game.

with less than a minute left, cornerback Reggie Corner knocked the ball out of Brandon Stokley’s hands in the end zone.

“I had both hands on the ball,” Stokley said. “I’ve got to catch it. That’s what they pay me to do.”

[markshark84]

Turnovers are the number one predictor in the outcome of football games. No other stat comes close. So I would say Campbell won us more games by not turning the ball over, than Cutler won for Denver by throwing TD passes.

Nice one. Maybe from now on our QB should just take a knee --- that way we'll have 0 TOs all year....

[SKINFAN]

Turnovers are the number one predictor in the outcome of football games. No other stat comes close. So I would say Campbell won us more games by not turning the ball over, than Cutler won for Denver by throwing TD passes.

Nice one. Maybe from now on our QB should just take a knee --- that way we'll have 0 TOs all year....

LoL wow....

[ChocolateMilk]

nah he should just throw it out of bounds like the amazing 8 did on almost every drive.. i couldnt stand it. i mean understand being safe and not forcing it. but he never, ever, eevver threw it deep.

[RayNAustin]

Someone show me where in the NFL it has paid off to wait for more than 3 years for a player to develop?

Gannon was a career backup and let go by 4 teams before going to the Pro Bowl 4 straight years, starting after his 12th season. Eli Manning - Before his 4th season fans were labeling him a bust, then he won the SB. Doug Williams? Mark Rypien? Hasselback? Fouts? Bradshaw? Steve Young? Kurt Warner? Romo? none of these guys had done squat in their first 3 years.

There are plenty i think it is actually a little more rare to see a QB pan out in the first 3 years to tell youof other examples. There aren't many Peyton Mannings and Tom Brady's in NFL history. Lots more Steve Youngs, Dan Fouts and Terry Bradshaws that struggle for 3+ years before turning the corner.

Romo still hasn't won a playoff game, even with all that talent they had. I wouldn't quite call Romo a success yet. the 1st 17 weeks are all irrelavent in sudden death, and he chokes like a prom date.

Okay, we can nitpick over the definition of success, but it really doesn't change the point at all. No matter whether you consider success a Super Bowl win, a Pro Bowl or just consensus that he's a top tier QB, the point remains the same. Throughout NFL history, Qb's have taken years to develop more often than not. Campbell definitely has his best football ahead of him. To write him off now would be stupid. To assume he'll develop into Tom Brady would also be stupid.

That is absolute nonsense, and not a shred of truth to it. Most QB's begin showing signs of their talents by the second year. Many do in their first year.

Most of the QBs you mentioned prove that. Why would you say that? Do you not expect someone to look?

Kurt Warner - first year over 4000 yards, 65% completions, and 41 TD's. Yeah, what a slow developer he was.

Romo was the same unless you're suggesting he didn't do anything for 3 years because he didn't play a single down? His first year playing - 10 games - 2900 yards 19 TD's - 65% comp. 2nd year, 4200 yards - 36 TD.

What say you about that?

[Deadskins]

Turnovers are the number one predictor in the outcome of football games. No other stat comes close. So I would say Campbell won us more games by not turning the ball over, than Cutler won for Denver by throwing TD passes.

Nice one. Maybe from now on our QB should just take a knee --- that way we'll have 0 TOs all year....

There are other ways a team can score TDs, you know. We weren't 6-2 off of Campbell's TD passes, but it could be argued that we went 2-6 in the second half because of JC's turnovers.

[CanesSkins26]

We weren't 6-2 off of Campbell's TD passes, but it could be argued that we went 2-6 in the second half because of JC's turnovers. Rolling Eyes

You aren't serious are you? During the second half of the season JC only had 6 turnovers. That's an extremely low number for a qb. No way are those 6 int's to blame for our 2-6 record in the second half. We only scored more than 13 points twice during the second half. That utter lack of production can't be blamed on 6 int's.

[Deadskins]

We weren't 6-2 off of Campbell's TD passes, but it could be argued that we went 2-6 in the second half because of JC's turnovers. Rolling Eyes

You aren't serious are you? During the second half of the season JC only had 6 turnovers. That's an extremely low number for a qb. No way are those 6 int's to blame for our 2-6 record in the second half. We only scored more than 13 points twice during the second half. That utter lack of production can't be blamed on 6 int's.

I didn't realize INTs were the only form of turnover. And yes, I am serious; turnovers are game killers.

[tcwest10]

I didn't realize INTs were the only form of turnover. And yes, I am serious; turnovers are game killers.

Well, of course you're right. There are many kinds of turnovers. You got your apple, your cherry, your BachmanTurnerover Drives...and I fully agree that all can be game killers.

[fleetus]

Turnovers are the number one predictor in the outcome of football games. No other stat comes close. So I would say Campbell won us more games by not turning the ball over, than Cutler won for Denver by throwing TD passes.

Nonsense. Cutler only had one more int than Drew Brees last year, who was an MVP candidate. Int's are part of the game and Brees, Warner, Rodgers, Peyton Manning, etc. all had double digit int's last year. JC's relatively low number of int's would have been impressive had he actually put up some points as qb. Only throwing 6 int's doesn't mean a damn thing when 20 other qb's accounted for more td's than JC in 2008. You can make meaningless arguments all you want but Cutler is a better qb than JC is and that is unlikely to change. He has better career stats than JC and led the #2 offense in the NFL last season.

I just don't see how you can be so sure Cutler is better than JC. Look at the WR's Cutler threw to! It's a whole different team, different offensive system. Shanahans system had been in place for over a decade, Zorn was in his first season as a head coach on any level! Cutler put up numbers and also lost alot of games by imploding in the 4th quarter. I think the two QB's are very close in terms of talent and potential. I give JC the nod in maturity and leadership.

[fleetus]

Someone show me where in the NFL it has paid off to wait for more than 3 years for a player to develop?

Gannon was a career backup and let go by 4 teams before going to the Pro Bowl 4 straight years, starting after his 12th season. Eli Manning - Before his 4th season fans were labeling him a bust, then he won the SB. Doug Williams? Mark Rypien? Hasselback? Fouts? Bradshaw? Steve Young? Kurt Warner? Romo? none of these guys had done squat in their first 3 years.

There are plenty i think it is actually a little more rare to see a QB pan out in the first 3 years to tell youof other examples. There aren't many Peyton Mannings and Tom Brady's in NFL history. Lots more Steve Youngs, Dan Fouts and Terry Bradshaws that struggle for 3+ years before turning the corner.

Romo still hasn't won a playoff game, even with all that talent they had. I wouldn't quite call Romo a success yet. the 1st 17 weeks are all irrelavent in sudden death, and he chokes like a prom date.

Okay, we can nitpick over the definition of success, but it really doesn't change the point at all. No matter whether you consider success a Super Bowl win, a Pro Bowl or just consensus that he's a top tier QB, the point remains the same. Throughout NFL history, Qb's have taken years to develop more often than not. Campbell definitely has his best football ahead of him. To write him off now would be stupid. To assume he'll develop into Tom Brady would also be stupid.

That is absolute nonsense, and not a shred of truth to it. Most QB's begin showing signs of their talents by the second year. Many do in their first year.

Most of the QBs you mentioned prove that. Why would you say that? Do you not expect someone to look?

Kurt Warner - first year over 4000 yards, 65% completions, and 41 TD's. Yeah, what a slow developer he was.

Romo was the same unless you're suggesting he didn't do anything for 3 years because he didn't play a single down? His first year playing - 10 games - 2900 yards 19 TD's - 65% comp. 2nd year, 4200 yards - 36 TD.

What say you about that?

So you're saying Warner and Romo were really brilliant in their first years, but coaches thought that brilliance was better utilized on the bench or in the Arena league?

I noticed you avoid discussion of any other QB's mentioned too. Was Gannon showing lots of promise when the Patriots asked him to become a safety before cutting him? Then the Vikings thought he was so good they benched him in favor of Salisbury before cutting him. In KC he was so good that Marty benched him in favor of Grbac

So what's you definition of "showing promise in the first 2 years"? The ability to fetch gatorade?

Certainly JC has shown more promise than many of these former pro-bowlers and MVP's did in their first few years. Of course, there is no guarantee that JC will pan out. But geez, some of you people are so close minded and negative, you wouldn't recognize promise in JC no matter what he does or the offense he has to work with.

[SkinsJock]

I think that Campbell is a good QB and I really hope that he can become a very good QB - I have been encouraged by the fact that Gibbs wanted him and that Zorn indicated that he saw a great deal of potential for Campbell as a QB.

I was excited originally - not by the wins and losses after 8 games as they were not so much about Campbell as other factors in my opinion but more so by the lack of mistakes. I felt it was important for Campbell not to "lose" games by his mistakes.

I don't know how to point it out exactly but Campbell just does not excite me as a QB and I have a feeling he just plays the position as well as he can and IMO the QB has to be more than a good manager

This is probably the key guy on your team and very few teams are successful over periods of time without a very good QB.

I will be very hopeful again this year - let's face it this is our QB this year -I just don't think he's going to get there, sorry.

The offense still has a ways to go anyway - I doubt that any of the 5 starters on the line will be there in 2011 and maybe even in 2010 We are a work in progress offensively but we will have a great defense ..... I think

[fleetus]

I think that Campbell is a good QB and I really hope that he can become a very good QB - I have been encouraged by the fact that Gibbs wanted him and that Zorn indicated that he saw a great deal of potential for Campbell as a QB.

I was excited originally - not by the wins and losses after 8 games as they were not so much about Campbell as other factors in my opinion but more so by the lack of mistakes. I felt it was important for Campbell not to "lose" games by his mistakes.

I don't know how to point it out exactly but Campbell just does not excite me as a QB and I have a feeling he just plays the position as well as he can and IMO the QB has to be more than a good manager

This is probably the key guy on your team and very few teams are successful over periods of time without a very good QB.

I will be very hopeful again this year - let's face it this is our QB this year -I just don't think he's going to get there, sorry.

The offense still has a ways to go anyway - I doubt that any of the 5 starters on the line will be there in 2011 and maybe even in 2010 We are a work in progress offensively but we will have a great defense ..... I think

I hear ya. You have a reasonable opinion with understandable concerns. I too am not sure about JC. But, I do feel it takes many QB's a few years to become mature enough to lead their team in the huddle and in 4th Q. Most 22-24 year old guys are not ready for this kind of leadership. Cutler obviously isn't. JC seemed to turn a corner last year with regards to maturity. He will have a 2nd full season with Zorn this year, so I am not goiing to judge Campbell until i see how he handles this season. If the line breaks down, i will factor that into the evaluation. If the WR's don't improve, that will be a factor. If the running game slows down, another factor. but in the end, I expect Campbell to play with poise and confidence. That includes being able to make quick progressions to 2nd, 3rd options and delivering the ball down field. So we'll see.

[RayNAustin]

So you're saying Warner and Romo were really brilliant in their first years, but coaches thought that brilliance was better utilized on the bench or in the Arena league?

Look at what they did in their first years playing. Oh, you want to look at the years BEFORE they got a chance to play???

The rest of my comments must move to smack.

I noticed you avoid discussion of any other QB's mentioned too. Was Gannon showing lots of promise when the Patriots asked him to become a safety before cutting him? Then the Vikings thought he was so good they benched him in favor of Salisbury before cutting him. In KC he was so good that Marty benched him in favor of Grbac

I don't have time to dissect every pointless point. The two examples that I pointed to clearly defines the matter, and how false your statement was.

Certainly JC has shown more promise than many of these former pro-bowlers and MVP's did in their first few years. Of course, there is no guarantee that JC will pan out. But geez, some of you people are so close minded and negative, you wouldn't recognize promise in JC no matter what he does or the offense he has to work with.

Once again, nonsense from an alternate universe. Jason Campbell promises to be a free agent next year who will sign for the vet minimum with some team desperate for a backup QB.

Warner's numbers for his first three seasons are tripple what Campbell produced.

And since Campbell thinks that he had a "really good year" last year, I'd say, don't hold your breath for this numb skull to get a clue.

[ChocolateMilk]

So you're saying Warner and Romo were really brilliant in their first years, but coaches thought that brilliance was better utilized on the bench or in the Arena league?

Look at what they did in their first years playing. Oh, you want to look at the years BEFORE they got a chance to play???

The rest of my comments must move to smack.

I noticed you avoid discussion of any other QB's mentioned too. Was Gannon showing lots of promise when the Patriots asked him to become a safety before cutting him? Then the Vikings thought he was so good they benched him in favor of Salisbury before cutting him. In KC he was so good that Marty benched him in favor of Grbac

I don't have time to dissect every pointless point. The two examples that I pointed to clearly defines the matter, and how false your statement was.

Certainly JC has shown more promise than many of these former pro-bowlers and MVP's did in their first few years. Of course, there is no guarantee that JC will pan out. But geez, some of you people are so close minded and negative, you wouldn't recognize promise in JC no matter what he does or the offense he has to work with.

Once again, nonsense from an alternate universe. Jason Campbell promises to be a free agent next year who will sign for the vet minimum with some team desperate for a backup QB.

Warner's numbers for his first three seasons are tripple what Campbell produced.

And since Campbell thinks that he had a "really good year" last year, I'd say, don't hold your breath for this numb skull to get a clue.

i keep seeing what you have to say, and what you're take on the skins are... and i've come to a conclusion that you just dont like the redskins. you are just a hateful, bitter, exfan of this team..

JCam has shown improvement every year he came in as the starter. and, as ive said many times before, he's coming this offseason under the same system and the same receiving unit! he has all offseason to look at film, look at what he's done wrong, get a feel for his receivers speed and agility, to learn things about the offense that he hasnt learned yet.. he's going to improve again this year. and if we get rid of him next year, who do you suggest we get to replace him? Colt Brennan? the 2nd coming of uncle rico?? yeah okay, good plan.

but i think the main thing thats going to help Jcam and our offense has nothing to do with our offense at all. It has to do with the signing of Haynesworth. Now if plays the way he's played the last 2 years then hopefully my theory will come true. if he sucks it up out there, then my theory is pointless.. but Haynesworth is going to allow us to get more pressure on the qb. which means, more sacks, more forced fumbles behind the line of scrimmage, more forced throws into coverage which will hopefully turn into interceptions(unless of course Carlos Rogers attempts to catch it) more 3 and outs. Basically more time for our offense to have the ball, and in their territory from the result of the turn overs...

Last year we went 6-2 mainly because we were winning the turn over battle. We were living high, everyone was praising everyone.. i even heard a writer say Campbell was a legit MVP candidate. Then everything went downhill. Our O-Line broke down, CP was worn down, we had Randle El and Moss dropping passes all the time, we had Zorn refusing to give the rookies playing time. instead he had Thrash in there and the other 2 continueing to drop passes. and our defense all of a sudden forgot how to cause a turn over. Another thing they forgot how to do, which was big in the 1st half of the season, was stop the other team on 3rd down. we kept soooo many drives alive it wasnt even funny. Our defense just couldnt seem to get off the field. And also we face teams with much better defenses in the 2nd half of the year, Steelers and Ravens (the top 2) being 2 of them. and we lost the TO battle and wound up going 2-6. and everyone felt like crap and needed some one to blame.

all of those reasons i just named had to do with us losing in the 2nd half of the season. It wasnt just 1 person. Football is a team effort. 1 guy can certainly make a difference, but you win as a team and you lose as a team. So stop blaming Jason Campbell for us going 2-6. Yes part of it is his fault. but to go as far as to say he is completely awful, he needs to be on a short leesh, basically writing him off before we even freakin start OTAs. thats just negative, ignorant, and a prime example of people just wanting a single person to blame..

I honostly believe that this will be a break out year for JC, he'll prove all of you haters wrong. Just wait.. dont write this guy off just yet.. i mean he's only 27.

[VetSkinsFan]

I think that Campbell is a good QB and I really hope that he can become a very good QB - I have been encouraged by the fact that Gibbs wanted him and that Zorn indicated that he saw a great deal of potential for Campbell as a QB.

I was excited originally - not by the wins and losses after 8 games as they were not so much about Campbell as other factors in my opinion but more so by the lack of mistakes. I felt it was important for Campbell not to "lose" games by his mistakes.

I don't know how to point it out exactly but Campbell just does not excite me as a QB and I have a feeling he just plays the position as well as he can and IMO the QB has to be more than a good manager

This is probably the key guy on your team and very few teams are successful over periods of time without a very good QB.

I will be very hopeful again this year - let's face it this is our QB this year -I just don't think he's going to get there, sorry.

The offense still has a ways to go anyway - I doubt that any of the 5 starters on the line will be there in 2011 and maybe even in 2010 We are a work in progress offensively but we will have a great defense ..... I think

I hear ya. You have a reasonable opinion with understandable concerns. I too am not sure about JC. But, I do feel it takes many QB's a few years to become mature enough to lead their team in the huddle and in 4th Q. Most 22-24 year old guys are not ready for this kind of leadership. Cutler obviously isn't. JC seemed to turn a corner last year with regards to maturity. He will have a 2nd full season with Zorn this year, so I am not goiing to judge Campbell until i see how he handles this season. If the line breaks down, i will factor that into the evaluation. If the WR's don't improve, that will be a factor. If the running game slows down, another factor. but in the end, I expect Campbell to play with poise and confidence. That includes being able to make quick progressions to 2nd, 3rd options and delivering the ball down field. So we'll see.

Uh... Campbell's 27 now.

[CanesSkins26]

I just don't see how you can be so sure Cutler is better than JC. Look at the WR's Cutler threw to! It's a whole different team, different offensive system. Shanahans system had been in place for over a decade, Zorn was in his first season as a head coach on any level! Cutler put up numbers and also lost alot of games by imploding in the 4th quarter. I think the two QB's are very close in terms of talent and potential. I give JC the nod in maturity and leadership.

One qb produces, the other doesn't. Cutler had as many td's in 2008 as JC did in 2008 and 2007 combined. Cutler is a playmaker and has heart, JC is the exact opposite. You're living in a fantasy world if you think that JC is on Cutler's level as a qb.

[1niksder]

One qb produces, the other doesn't. Cutler had as many td's in 2008 as JC did in 2008 and 2007 combined.

He also has more int's in 2008 than Cambpell had in 2008 and 2007 combined.

Cutler is a playmaker and has heart, JC is the exact opposite. You're living in a fantasy world if you think that JC is on Cutler's level as a qb.

What has he done that Campbell hasn't or can't. They both went 8-8 last year, neither made the playoffs but Cutler and the Broncos had a three game lead in their division with 3 games left last year and still miss the playoffs, Cutler only had 3 games where he didn't have at least 1 int and four games with mutiple picks. Campbell had four games that he threw picks in. Over the last two years Cutler has thrown over 160 more passes than Campbell and has but the ball on the ground almost 3 times more that Campbell. If you ask me they are both about the same. They had the same 62% comp rate in 2008 however JC's was a improvement over 2007's pct while Cutler's dropped when compared to 2007.

[CanesSkins26]

JCam has shown improvement every year he came in as the starter. and, as ive said many times before, he's coming this offseason under the same system and the same receiving unit!

Minimal improvement and regression in some areas. His td's per game have actually decreased every year.

he has all offseason to look at film, look at what he's done wrong, get a feel for his receivers speed and agility, to learn things about the offense that he hasnt learned yet..l

Get a feel for his receivers? What are you talking about? Moss, ARE, Thrash, and ey have been here for as long as he has. If he doesn't have a feel for them yet he never will.

he's going to improve again this year.

It isn't enough for him to just improve. JC is going to be in his fifth year in the NFL and he needs to raise his game tremendously in order for the Skins (or any other NFL team) to sign him to a major deal after the 2009 season.

and if we get rid of him next year, who do you suggest we get to replace him? Colt Brennan? the 2nd coming of uncle rico?? yeah okay, good plan.

We will likely have the option of drafting Sanchez this year. In the 2010 draft the qb class will be very strong. It's really not all that hard to replace 13 td's from your qb.

but i think the main thing thats going to help Jcam and our offense has nothing to do with our offense at all. It has to do with the signing of Haynesworth. Now if plays the way he's played the last 2 years then hopefully my theory will come true. if he sucks it up out there, then my theory is pointless.. but Haynesworth is going to allow us to get more pressure on the qb. which means, more sacks, more forced fumbles behind the line of scrimmage, more forced throws into coverage which will hopefully turn into interceptions(unless of course Carlos Rogers attempts to catch it) more 3 and outs. Basically more time for our offense to have the ball, and in their territory from the result of the turn overs...

Haynesworth is a beast and will help. But who do we have at defensive end right now other than Carter? That's right, nobody. Our pass rush should be better simply bc of Haynesworth but it's not going to magically transform if we don't get solid production out of the LDE spot.

Our O-Line broke down, CP was worn down, we had Randle El and Moss dropping passes all the time, we had Zorn refusing to give the rookies playing time.

CP broke down bc of our garbage passing game, led by JC.

[1niksder]

JCam has shown improvement every year he came in as the starter. and, as ive said many times before, he's coming this offseason under the same system and the same receiving unit!

Minimal improvement and regression in some areas. His td's per game have actually decreased every year.

You mean regression in one area (Td's) because he HAS improved in every other area.

he has all offseason to look at film, look at what he's done wrong, get a feel for his receivers speed and agility, to learn things about the offense that he hasnt learned yet..l

Get a feel for his receivers? What are you talking about? Moss, ARE, Thrash, and ey have been here for as long as he has. If he doesn't have a feel for them yet he never will.

I was thinking the same thing... If anything this could be said for Cutler considering he had a rookie WR (that actually played), and he never knew when Brandon Marshall would be playing snd when he would be in Godell's doghouse.

[

he's going to improve again this year.

It isn't enough for him to just improve. JC is going to be in his fifth year in the NFL and he needs to raise his game tremendously in order for the Skins (or any other NFL team) to sign him to a major deal after the 2009 season.

It's his contract year he'll play better because of that (I hope) but will he show enough to justify a big payday and if so will he return to his norm after signing

[

and if we get rid of him next year, who do you suggest we get to replace him? Colt Brennan? the 2nd coming of uncle rico?? yeah okay, good plan.

We will likely have the option of drafting Sanchez this year. In the 2010 draft the qb class will be very strong. It's really not all that hard to replace 13 td's from your qb.

No reason to use the 13 on a QB this year... ("the Danny" would never go for it)

[

but i think the main thing thats going to help Jcam and our offense has nothing to do with our offense at all. It has to do with the signing of Haynesworth. Now if plays the way he's played the last 2 years then hopefully my theory will come true. if he sucks it up out there, then my theory is pointless.. but Haynesworth is going to allow us to get more pressure on the qb. which means, more sacks, more forced fumbles behind the line of scrimmage, more forced throws into coverage which will hopefully turn into interceptions(unless of course Carlos Rogers attempts to catch it) more 3 and outs. Basically more time for our offense to have the ball, and in their territory from the result of the turn overs...

Haynesworth is a beast and will help. But who do we have at defensive end right now other than Carter? That's right, nobody. Our pass rush should be better simply bc of Haynesworth but it's not going to magically transform if we don't get solid production out of the LDE spot.

Having a top 5 D didn't help hi much last year....

[

Our O-Line broke down, CP was worn down, we had Randle El and Moss dropping passes all the time, we had Zorn refusing to give the rookies playing time.

CP broke down bc of our garbage passing game, led by JC.

JC ran hat JZ called...

[RayNAustin]

i keep seeing what you have to say, and what you're take on the skins are... and i've come to a conclusion that you just dont like the redskins. you are just a hateful, bitter, exfan of this team..

Really? Hmm, that's funny, because that's exactly what I think about the Jason Campbell Fan club. I think their love of Jason Campbell is to the level of irrationality, having grown to the point of excuse making and willingness to exaggerate accomplishments ... much to the detriment of the team as a whole ... in my opinion. So, your conclusions about me is as error filled and baseless as is your conclusions of Campbell.

I for one, think the Redskins have a solid defense, and a pretty decent roster offensively, with quite a bit of talent at the skill positions. Rock solid tight end (and a promising rookie back up), excellent RB combo in Portis/Betts; a legit play maker at WR in Moss who is not only a deep threat, but terrific and elusive in space; a competent 2nd/3rd receiver in ARE who can also throw TD's and catch them; and a couple of talented rookie WRs that under the right situation could emerge a legit players.

My opinion that Jason Campbell is the albatross around this team's offensive neck is neither hateful, nor bitter. Just a reasonable conclusion if the aforementioned assessment of the rest of the offensive personnel is also reasonable.

JCam has shown improvement every year he came in as the starter. and, as ive said many times before, he's coming this offseason under the same system and the same receiving unit! he has all offseason to look at film, look at what he's done wrong, get a feel for his receivers speed and agility, to learn things about the offense that he hasnt learned yet.. he's going to improve again this year. and if we get rid of him next year, who do you suggest we get to replace him? Colt Brennan? the 2nd coming of uncle rico?? yeah okay, good plan.

That exact scenario played out in 2006-2007 with Campbell, and we witnessed a decline in production. He had the entire 2006 training camp, pre-season, and the first 11 games of regular season time to study and learn Saunders system (while Brunell played the first 11 games). He played the remaining 7 games in 2006, and those were the most productive (points wise) of his Redskin career. Then he had all of the off-season, training camp, pre-season, and 12 1/2 games of the regular season to become better acquainted with the playbook and improve upon his 2006 depute, yet was still uncomfortable with it and struggled in a similar fashion as he did with Zorn's system in 2008.

Forget the various statistical improvements in yards and completion percentage that have come without the associated increase in production (points). You don't win games with total yards, only total points scored.

And, why is it that you are so quick to discount Brennan without anything tangible to base such a negative opinion? Everything we actually saw from him looked better than both Campbell and Collins in the pre-season, albeit against 2nd tier defenses (but also utilizing 2nd tier offensive personnel too).

but i think the main thing thats going to help Jcam and our offense has nothing to do with our offense at all. It has to do with the signing of Haynesworth. Now if plays the way he's played the last 2 years then hopefully my theory will come true. if he sucks it up out there, then my theory is pointless.. but Haynesworth is going to allow us to get more pressure on the qb. which means, more sacks, more forced fumbles behind the line of scrimmage, more forced throws into coverage which will hopefully turn into interceptions(unless of course Carlos Rogers attempts to catch it) more 3 and outs. Basically more time for our offense to have the ball, and in their territory from the result of the turn overs...

Last year we went 6-2 mainly because we were winning the turn over battle. We were living high, everyone was praising everyone.. i even heard a writer say Campbell was a legit MVP candidate. Then everything went downhill. Our O-Line broke down, CP was worn down, we had Randle El and Moss dropping passes all the time, we had Zorn refusing to give the rookies playing time. instead he had Thrash in there and the other 2 continueing to drop passes. and our defense all of a sudden forgot how to cause a turn over. Another thing they forgot how to do, which was big in the 1st half of the season, was stop the other team on 3rd down. we kept soooo many drives alive it wasnt even funny. Our defense just couldnt seem to get off the field. And also we face teams with much better defenses in the 2nd half of the year, Steelers and Ravens (the top 2) being 2 of them. and we lost the TO battle and wound up going 2-6. and everyone felt like crap and needed some one to blame.

This is again, to me, an infuriating assessment of what transpired. The defense finished 4th in the league, just behind those "great defenses" of Pittsburgh and Baltimore that you're so quick to praise (while blaming our's for the ineptness on offense?).

The Redskin defense carried the team all year, including an almost shutout of the Eagles in week 16, and holding the Cowboys to just 14 points in week 11 (we lost 14-10). I suppose the defense failed by allowing the 2nd TD, preventing us from winning 10-7?

all of those reasons i just named had to do with us losing in the 2nd half of the season. It wasnt just 1 person. Football is a team effort. 1 guy can certainly make a difference, but you win as a team and you lose as a team. So stop blaming Jason Campbell for us going 2-6. Yes part of it is his fault. but to go as far as to say he is completely awful, he needs to be on a short leesh, basically writing him off before we even freakin start OTAs. thats just negative, ignorant, and a prime example of people just wanting a single person to blame..

No, it just means that I have a memory that remains intact for more than 30 days. Our 2nd half collapse was due in large measure (not entirely) to an inability to convert our own third downs and score points. And aside from an early week 2-5 stretch, that was true for most of the year.

The Pittsburgh game is a classic example. Our first three possessions began in Pittsburgh territory, and our inability to do anything other than attempt field goals prevented us from having a three TD lead by the half, as I recall. And yo can't blow opportunities like that against very good teams and expect to win.

I honostly believe that this will be a break out year for JC, he'll prove all of you haters wrong. Just wait.. dont write this guy off just yet.. i mean he's only 27.

I honestly believed in Santa Claus for years too. The problem I have, and the essence of the problem I see with Campbell is his own self confessed assessment of his 2008 season as a "really good year". What a ridiculous statement to make, given the Redskins poor offensive production last year. Obviously, Campbell agrees with many of you here that yards and completion percentage is the end all be all, and that he did his part. Apparently, it was the other 19 guys that prevented the Redskins from scoring enough points to reasonably expect to win.

[SkinsFreak]

[Fios]

also, this thread is veering toward "does JC suck or not" and away from it's stated purpose

[broomboy]

also, this thread is veering toward "does JC suck or not" and away from it's stated purpose

And I think RayNAustin has made his views quite clear in the 9405 threads concerning whether JC sucks or not as well as this one

[Deadskins]

Apparently, it was the other 19 guys that prevented the Redskins from scoring enough points to reasonably expect to win.

19? Maybe that was the problem; we were playing a man short on offense and defense.