The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

ok as far as getting our rook wide outs up to speed, they JUST got into the league.

it takes a few years for wide outs to assimilate. thats why they dont get drafted right away, thats why stand out WRs come into their own in their third year, thats why its not their fault production is lacking.

JC needs to throw the ball, get some stones.

TincoSkin wrote:ok as far as getting our rook wide outs up to speed, they JUST got into the league.

it takes a few years for wide outs to assimilate. thats why they dont get drafted right away, thats why stand out WRs come into their own in their third year, thats why its not their fault production is lacking.

JC needs to throw the ball, get some stones.

To be fair to Campbell - NOTHING about how Thomas or Kelly played or "looked" last season had anything to do with the QB or anything to do with anyone but themselves.

That is past - hopefully Thomas shows why he was so highly regarded and Kelly shows he was worth the pick as well.
I am also of the opinion that Davis might prove to be a big asset as well if you'll pardon the pun

I think we all have to hope that these guys come through this year - the past is done.

I am not a Campbell apologist but he had nothing to do with what happened with either player in my opinion.

We do need to have a lot of good things happen to our offense though - That is for sure

Gibbs4Life wrote:Question : we were 6-2 with wins in Dallas and Philly but finished 8-8 with a problem scoring, maintaining drives, protecting the QB, and getting open at the WR position, so just how bad is our offense? Is it so bad that we miss the playoffs again this year?

most likely yes we will miss the playoffs ..... unless we find a true #1 wide out (holt) would help !!! our o-line is average at best with aging tackles,i like our running game. last but not least campbell he is a decent qb but decent is not getting the job done.hopefully with 1 year of zorns offense and zorn working with him hopefully he will become a qb that can get the job done.

redskinz4ever wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:Question : we were 6-2 with wins in Dallas and Philly but finished 8-8 with a problem scoring, maintaining drives, protecting the QB, and getting open at the WR position, so just how bad is our offense? Is it so bad that we miss the playoffs again this year?

most likely yes we will miss the playoffs ..... unless we find a true #1 wide out (holt) would help !!! our o-line is average at best with aging tackles,i like our running game. last but not least campbell he is a decent qb but decent is not getting the job done.hopefully with 1 year of zorns offense and zorn working with him hopefully he will become a qb that can get the job done.

so you think a prototypical wide out would grant us a playoff birth? even if JC cant get him the ball?

TincoSkin wrote:so you think a prototypical wide out would grant us a playoff birth? even if JC cant get him the ball?

The MAIN problem is at QB. That needs to be fixed before you get another WR.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

TincoSkin wrote:so you think a prototypical wide out would grant us a playoff birth? even if JC cant get him the ball?

The MAIN problem is at QB. That needs to be fixed before you get another WR.

exactly (although a way better O line would help too!)

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

TincoSkin wrote:so you think a prototypical wide out would grant us a playoff birth? even if JC cant get him the ball?

The MAIN problem is at QB. That needs to be fixed before you get another WR.

^^^ what he said

At the end of last season we were not just 8-8 we were a team that looked like they need a number of things to happen just right and we had only 4 picks coming in the draft

I am surprised that by adding some players through FA (the notables = Haynesworth, Hall and Dockery) and by getting a couple of "okay" players back, there are some that forget how we really "looked" as a team last year.

btw - Why do we forget that Dockery did not have a very good year last year - Okay! - he looked "promising" to us in 2007 but he certainly did not have as good a year in 2008 as some thought when he signed that deal

The reality is that based on last year we should not be in the playoffs this year - we have a lot of things that need to happen and I just do not think it is possible to address that much in one offseason and with only 4 picks and especially no pick in the second round.

The offensive line is a big concern = I find it hard to think that any of the five guys that started last year will be very good in 2010 let alone 2009?

We need a true #1 wide receiver - We have to hope that Thomas can show that he's "the one" - that's a stretch based on what we saw BUT it could happen

We do have some good players on offense but the offense begins with the QB and we have to hope that Campbell can be the QB that Gibbs and Zorn think he is - again we are hoping. Most teams know what their QB can do, we have to hope - this is not good

So - we really have to hope that we can be effective on offense and based on the offensive line, the QB and the game planning we saw last year - That is a lot of wishful thinking.

As many of you know I'm the guy that many here have berated for being overly optimistic - I'm still optimistic BUT the offense is going to take at least 2 seasons to be effective and that is a stretch.


The good new is that we have added a guy on defense that many here have said is a huge addition to our defense and that he makes everyone else on the defensive unit better This was a unit that ranked in the top 5 last year so I'm feeling a lot better about our chances for a defense that will make us forget that we have an offense that will take years in my opinion to get better

so I am still the optimist but I wish I was just hoping for a minor miracle ....

Gibbs4Life wrote:Question : we were 6-2 with wins in Dallas and Philly but finished 8-8 with a problem scoring, maintaining drives, protecting the QB, and getting open at the WR position, so just how bad is our offense? Is it so bad that we miss the playoffs again this year?

That depends.
Our O line suffered thru the last half of the 08 season, Portis was banged up and with no protection, and two small double teamed receivers not getting open, Campbell either threw it away or took the sack. With this seasons free agent moves, and with the God Willing Kelly and what's his name pulling their weight, we might see a more efficient offense. With the upgrade of our defense, our O should be on the field alot more, and possibly score more then 21 points.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

TincoSkin wrote:so you think a prototypical wide out would grant us a playoff birth? even if JC cant get him the ball?

The MAIN problem is at QB. That needs to be fixed before you get another WR.

Tell that to Sage Rosenfels, Matt Cassel, and to whatever random QB who got to throw to Calvin Johnson. I don't consider them elite Qb's, but they were pretty good because of nasty receivers. You can't throw to an open receiver if the open receiver doesn't exist.

Having a really good QB is important but there are a lot of other factors involved in a successful offense.

a good RB; a good #1 WR; a good TE; a great offensive line and a game plan that takes advantage of your players' strengths as it applies to the defense's weaknesses

it all starts with the man who takes every snap from center and in my opinion that is Campbell for another year


kind of reminds me of the song from Music Man - "we got trouble, right here in River City .... "

SkinsJock wrote:Having a really good QB is important but there are a lot of other factors involved in a successful offense.

a good RB; a good #1 WR; a good TE; a great offensive line and a game plan that takes advantage of your players' strengths as it applies to the defense's weaknesses

it all starts with the man who takes every snap from center and in my opinion that is Campbell for another year


kind of reminds me of the song from Music Man - "we got trouble, right here in River City .... "

I would also argue you need a good number two WR if you don't have a dominant number one WR. Moss has one big strength, getting deep. They bracket him with a safety almost every play, or at least most teams do. That's why Zorn had Moss running comeback routes at the end of the season, he realized that Moss was being respected deep. Nobody else on the other side makes other teams pay for this. El can't consistently overcome single coverage, which stifles the offense. Preferably, you would like to have someone better than Moss who frees him up to use his quickness.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

brad7686 wrote:I don't disagree with people knocking Campbell, but I don't see why their aren't twice as many threads about how bad the WR's are. Unless everyone thinks Kelly and Thomas will pan out. Our best receivers are smaller than most corners. How are they going to win jump balls? How are they going to escape press coverage? Not to mention they can't catch anyway.

B/C if JC can't read the D and the coverage, then he can't make the best play.

On average cambell did not have a ton of time in the pocket per pass play and there was never really alot of pockets formed. In fact cambells pocket presence has been questioned on this board in the past. It is a sure gamble to let him start, I agree that with the holes filled at o-line and to let cambell start it will be an interesting season and a test for Zorn. This may be the year to see cambell benched.

Many pushed to bench cambell last year, I for one have not seen much of any back up in Washington. I am sure the kid from hawaii will have a faster release than JC if he can avoid getting smashed back there.

Concernig the wide outs ya there going to get reps they need reps but this is a work in progress that will be Zorns problem ........fact Portis can not continue to keep shouldering the burden and Zorn is out of holes to dig. This means JC will either make throws or bust.

Gibbs4Life wrote:The positive thing about Campbell is in order for him to become a championship QB he has to become a scrambling threat and he did flash some nice 20 yrd gains even if he never slides. We know he has the arm. And he was the least intercepted QB in the league. A strong OL and improved WR play (rookies no more) will go a long way to get JCam that huge contract he's playing for this year.

Having said that, Colt Brennan has done nothing but shine in every opportunity he's been given...he can't torch 1st stringers until he's sent in against them. He is the ALL TIME LEADING PASSER IN NCAA HISTORY.
I don't care what system he was in, you can't throw that many touchdowns without being exceptional. If Campbell struggles over 5 games we might go to the kid.

I feel you Gibbs but we gotta remember that he played for Hawaii which really when you look at it, they didn't play the big dogs very often..i.e.. SEC and the rest. I like him though, I thought he was a good pickup but when I saw him during the preseason he seemed very "rookiesh".. as opposed to the kid from Atlanta from BC.. ummm.. Ryan, Matt Ryan or even the dude from Bmore.

brad7686 wrote:.. I would also argue you need a good number two WR if you don't have a dominant number one WR. Moss has one big strength, getting deep. .... Preferably, you would like to have someone better than Moss who frees him up to use his quickness.

No question that a good # 1 WR coupled with Moss assures us of a great combination

Fact remains we need that AND we need better play calling and better game planning from Zorn AND we need the offensive line "issues" resolved AND we need Campbell to make a big step up to be the QB he is expected to be - see, it's that last part that has me a concerned - we are hoping for a lot of things to happen here and I just think that is just too much to think it is all going to be in place this year.

That might be it for Zorn and that is a big shame as I think this guy has a lot more potential to be successful as a Head Coach than Campbell does as a QB - Campbell might go on to get another opportunity as a QB but I doubt that Zorn gets another chance to be a HC

Yes our offense has held this team back the last couple of years and this defense has kept us in the games.

Double or single coverage, Moss will never have another 1400 yard season again. He doesn't have the durability, size or hands to repeat that one great season as a 30+ year old WR.

ARE has never had this capability, which is why the Steelers let him go.

We better hope that the addition of Dockery suddenly transforms the aging line into a durable, cohesive unit. Because unless Thomas and Jansen start taking the cream and the clear, they will both be slower and more injury prone than last year. And Heyer isn't going to get JC to the Pro Bowl. So it is Portis again, that we will be counting on to swim against the tide all season long while JC tries to maintain his poise long enough to get the ball to a sub par group of WR's.

We need a GM with a plan. Hopefully we go 2-14, so Snyder might be convinced to hire a GM finally and we'll have a top 3 pick to start with. Otherwise, I see something between 5-11 and 9-7 for the next 5 years. Sorry.

(and for the record, I think JC could become a top 5 QB in the NFL if given the support needed)

the very same sub par group that went to the playoffs despite a patchwork line and a backup QB.... I have nothing against Jcam, I just think that this WR's we have are good enough, if used effectively, even with MB at the helm we were winning games. give them short passes and let them run for their life, instead of making them go long and not even look at them or throw their direction. CP is carrying us on O, man I hope they give him some help.

(and for the record, I think JC could become a top 5 QB in the NFL if given the support needed)

Keep dreaming

jeremyroyce wrote:Yes our offense has held this team back the last couple of years and this defense has kept us in the games.

the offense has come up short a touchdown and or a fieldgoal in every game for about the last 3 years, I can not even think back to when the offense was noteworthy, other than "do they suck" maybe it was the year before gibbs left,.
If cambell can not scramble and be productive and to pass well from the pocket then it is a work in progress, but that may very well be the problem, with the production from JC, he is not farve ar cunninghamish and the recievers can no depend on him to deliver a good ball,,, I pray for a solid o-line it is the only obvious answer and the best soulution to the entire offense.
there is after all alot of talent at the skill positions and a pretty good backup QB if JC does suck in 2009. Then I would not like to see the back up in there having to scramble for yard.

jeremyroyce wrote:Yes our offense has held this team back the last couple of years and this defense has kept us in the games.

the offense has come up short a touchdown and or a fieldgoal in every game for about the last 3 years, I can not even think back to when the offense was noteworthy, other than "do they suck" maybe it was the year before gibbs left,.
If cambell can not scramble and be productive and to pass well from the pocket then it is a work in progress, but that may very well be the problem, with the production from JC, he is not farve ar cunninghamish and the recievers can no depend on him to deliver a good ball,,, I pray for a solid o-line it is the only obvious answer and the best soulution to the entire offense.
there is after all alot of talent at the skill positions and a pretty good backup QB if JC does suck in 2009. Then I would not like to see the back up in there having to scramble for yard.

was I the only one who thought it looked good enough to only post once

I know it was one to many clicks
honestly I mostly like the potential of the skill postitions , thomas and kelly and moss and portis and cooley. I know there was alot of drops and there are two young guys that mix, that need to get chances, the others are veterens and have played portis is exceptional carrying the ball and blocking..
Coach Zorn has a load of time in the NFL, with a revamped oline I believe the offense could work out the kinks.. Jason Cambell has a good arm and can move around some. he has his strengths and limits turn overs, He has got to get rid of the ball this year better, that I know will happen with a little protection and a lot less adjusting to the defense and sliding around, offense does not suck

redskins14ru wrote:I know it was one to many clicks

That's why this button was invented.