The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I think Snyder has mellowed, but I'm kind of worried...

With Gruden, Shannahan, Cowher, Dungy and others potentially being available in 2010 I'm kind of nervous about Zorn getting fired if we don't have a great season next year.

Personally, I don't think the Redskins are ready to make a big impact in the playoffs.

DEHog wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:That's not much of a leap at all...

It's already been said that Spags turned down the Redskins job because they were in such disarray.

Who said that?

He turned down the Washington Redskins job last year after being lauded for the pass-rushing game plan that stunned Tom Brady and New England in last year's Super Bowl.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Football/NFL/2009/01/03/7911101-ap.html

There are two points:

1) Was he even offered the job? Slam sports assumes he was when neither Spags nor Snyder said he was. Is that really the best you got? A statement by "Slam Sports" that he "turned it down?"

2) Even if he was offered and did turn it down, it doesn't answer the question that he turned it down because the Skins were in "disarray." Where did it say that?

El Mexican wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:That's not much of a leap at all...

It's already been said that Spags turned down the Redskins job because they were in such disarray.

Who said that?

Does it really matter if some one said it or not?

In this case, actions speak louder than words.

Um..OK. In other words you believe it because you want to. I can't refute that...

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

DEHog wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:That's not much of a leap at all...

It's already been said that Spags turned down the Redskins job because they were in such disarray.

Who said that?

He turned down the Washington Redskins job last year after being lauded for the pass-rushing game plan that stunned Tom Brady and New England in last year's Super Bowl.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Football/NFL/2009/01/03/7911101-ap.html

There are two points:

1) Was he even offered the job? Slam sports assumes he was when neither Spags nor Snyder said he was. Is that really the best you got? A statement by "Slam Sports" that he "turned it down?"

2) Even if he was offered and did turn it down, it doesn't answer the question that he turned it down because the Skins were in "disarray." Where did it say that?

I found numerous articles...but it's really a mix on words...Spags said he withdrew because he didn't feel he was ready to be a HC. Then on a broadcast this year Buck and Aikman were making a big point out of it...said that he was offered the job..to which Vinny said he never was.

Think about it...you want the experience of the interview..there wasn't alot of openings last year...of course he wants to be a HC so what do you think he's going to say...coaches don't throw owners under buses if they want to continue to coach.

Kazoo: Spags did in fact interview with Snyder last year. I don't know exactly what they talked about, but they talked for quite a while. You can verify that info here:

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008/0 ... _says.html

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redski ... ow_up.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00183.html

http://www.newser.com/story/18511/giant ... aying.html (taken from the NYT)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 04290.html

http://gridironfans.com/forums/latest-n ... s-job.html

He was oofered the job in DC but signed with the Giants for another 3 years and 2 million bucks, according to the NYT.

Now, ONE year later, he decides to sign with the lousy Rams? Can you really be any clearer to Synder that he did not want to come to DC?

It's as clear as water to me.

El Mexican wrote:Kazoo: Spags did in fact interview with Snyder last year. I don't know exactly what they talked about, but they talked for quite a while. You can verify that info here...

I know he interviewed. I know he spent a lot of time with Dan. I know he said afterwords he was withdrawing his name from consideration for the job. What I do not know is

1) He was ever "offered" the job. You can't "turn down" that which isn't offered. The media, which didn't get the millennium the right year, keeps throwing out the phrase that he turned it down because they like piling on Dan. Some possibilities off the top of my head:

- They didn't hit it off personally. I know you hate Dan and would say that's his fault, but a critical mind wouldn't assume that. Sometimes people just don't relate.

- They got along fine but had different philosophies. Same concept.

- Spags KNEW Dan wasn't going to offer him the job and "withdrew" ala Paul McCartney & John Lennon.

- Spags thought Coughlin might retire soon and wanted to wait a year or two and see if he could stay with the Giants.

- Spags thought he'd be better prepared to be a head coach in a year or two and wanted that over a job sooner. Clearly he was going to get a job.

- Knowing he was going to get a job wanted a "perfect" fit and while it was OK he didn't feel that way.

2) Even if you give the media that withdrawing from consideration is "turning down" a job, where does it say because the Skins are in "disarray?"

All very valid and reasonable posibilities, I understand Kazoo. The posibilities are endless, really.

I believe it's safe to assume that when Snyder contacted Spags he offered either A) A head-coaching position or B) a coordinating position. On the contrary, why contact Spags in the first place? If your Snyder why waste your time and that of another person when your team needs a HC asap?

But c'mon now, let's be realistic. Would you really prefer to coach the Rams than the Skins?

El Mexican wrote:All very valid and reasonable posibilities, I understand Kazoo. The posibilities are endless, really.

I believe it's safe to assume that when Snyder contacted Spags he offered either A) A head-coaching position or B) a coordinating position. On the contrary, why contact Spags in the first place? If your Snyder why waste your time and that of another person when your team needs a HC asap?

To interview potential head coaches. Kaz's point is that this was an interview, not a job offer. Remember, Snyder interviewed a lot of people last year, and presumably didn't offer the job to all of them at that time.

I mean, we're all pretty sure that Snyder spent a lot of time with Gregg Williams...and we know he didn't offer the job to him.

Yea..we all know he wasn't looking for a HC because he wanted Zorn all along

DEHog wrote:Yea..we all know he wasn't looking for a HC because he wanted Zorn all along

And this leads us to the insight that...

I think it's safe to assume that anyone can speculate and formulate an opinion. What Kazoo is trying to get across is to PROVE what was claimed WITH LINKS. It's not that hard to comprehend.



Disclaimer: I think this is now the 2nd time I've sided with Kazoo. I need to see a shrink.

VetSkinsFan wrote:I think it's safe to assume that anyone can speculate and formulate an opinion. What Kazoo is trying to get across is to PROVE what was claimed WITH LINKS. It's not that hard to comprehend.



Disclaimer: I think this is now the 2nd time I've sided with Kazoo. I need to see a shrink.

And when provided he just discredited them???

Lets just look at the facts...Snyder waited until after the Super bowl to interview Spags. Spangs goes out and shutdowns the most prolific offense in NFL history ( I would think that added a little something to his resume) Snyder interview him and decided naah… Zorn is much more qualified!!
Got it my apoligies!

So now it should be believed that Snyder actually got the HC who he wanted in the first place.

Yeah right...

Less than a year ago this forum was discussing exactly that. Snyder was cornered in his final decision.

The telling fact about this Spags thing is that after the SB he signed with the Giants for 3 more season at 2 million a season, according to the NYT (check my past links if you doubt it). That was the indirect reason given at the time by his agent for not coming to the Redskins.

But wait a sec...now, just a year later, he is willing to forget that contract with the Giants and sign with the Rams.

DEHog wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:I think it's safe to assume that anyone can speculate and formulate an opinion. What Kazoo is trying to get across is to PROVE what was claimed WITH LINKS. It's not that hard to comprehend.



Disclaimer: I think this is now the 2nd time I've sided with Kazoo. I need to see a shrink.

And when provided he just discredited them???

Lets just look at the facts...Snyder waited until after the Super bowl to interview Spags. Spangs goes out and shutdowns the most prolific offense in NFL history ( I would think that added a little something to his resume) Snyder interview him and decided naah… Zorn is much more qualified!!
Got it my apoligies!

I'm not sure what that I "discredited" the links mean. I don't dispute the facts in any of them, but none of them added any facts not in agreement. No one has disputed that Spags interviewed or that he pulled out. The links don't even claim that he was offered the job or that he turned it down because the Skins were in disarray. So I'm not seeing the significance in any of them to further the discussion, you're going to have to go back to them and show me what quote you think does.

As for your aimless sarcasm, I see no point and it doesn't contradict mine. Did you even read my options? There are plenty there not covered by your sarcasm even if accepted as fact.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

DEHog wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:I think it's safe to assume that anyone can speculate and formulate an opinion. What Kazoo is trying to get across is to PROVE what was claimed WITH LINKS. It's not that hard to comprehend.



Disclaimer: I think this is now the 2nd time I've sided with Kazoo. I need to see a shrink.

And when provided he just discredited them???

Lets just look at the facts...Snyder waited until after the Super bowl to interview Spags. Spangs goes out and shutdowns the most prolific offense in NFL history ( I would think that added a little something to his resume) Snyder interview him and decided naah… Zorn is much more qualified!!
Got it my apoligies!

I'm not sure what that I "discredited" the links mean. I don't dispute the facts in any of them, but none of them added any facts not in agreement. No one has disputed that Spags interviewed or that he pulled out. The links don't even claim that he was offered the job or that he turned it down because the Skins were in disarray. So I'm not seeing the significance in any of them to further the discussion, you're going to have to go back to them and show me what quote you think does.

As for your aimless sarcasm, I see no point and it doesn't contradict mine. Did you even read my options? There are plenty there not covered by your sarcasm even if accepted as fact.

I’m not saying “why” he turned it down. Just that he did. You don’t dispute that he did “withdraw his name” correct?? Well what do you think that means?? If you go for an interview and you pull your name out your turning down any and all offers. OK so maybe Snyder never got that far as to offer but you see a lot of articles that say “he turned down the job” your splitting hairs.

I’m not sure why it’s so important to the Skins to let everyone know that they didn’t offer him the job other than, they don’t won’t to be perceived has an unattractive origination to work for. Don’t you remember the big deal Vinny made about it during the season, so much so that they talked about it on the broadcast!!

I think all EM and I are trying to say is that the Redskins job has lost a lot of luster under the Snyder regime. It’s a sad day when you settle for a position coach who was not on your staff. And as EM said a year removed he accepts the Rams job??

Redskins executive VP of operations Vinny Cerrato. Okay, I've had about enough of him and owner Dan Snyder telling the media they didn't offer the job to Spags in February. Last night, Andrea Kremer reported Cerrato also told him they didn't have a good feel for Spags. Baloney! You want to know what happened? Spags mulled things over for a night with his wife, Maria, and thought to himself, "Hmmm, something's not right with this job." (Yeah, I know what it was - the guys that were offering it.) So, according to sources, Cerrato and Snyder told Spags not to make them look bad when he turned down the job, which Spags never planned to do, I'm sure. So what happens? A few minutes after news breaks that Spags said no, the AP in Washington reports, according to a source (Do I even have to spell out for you who that source could have been?) both sides agreed Spags isn't ready to be a head coach. One more time: Baloney! If Spags wanted that job, it was his. And he continues to take the high road while Cerrato and Snyder are trying to rewrite their revisionist history book. Keep trying, boys. And keep trying to build a successful team with that kind of approach to things.

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2008/09/a_look_back_at_new_york_giants_3.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/giants/2008/02/spags-going-nowhere.html

An NFL source said Spagnuolo had emerged as the frontrunner and Snyder was preparing an offer and had made it clear that Spagnuolo should expect it.

After reading those article one could come to the conclusion (when you add the fact that he took the Rams job) that Spags was unimpressed whit Snyder!!

I don't hate Dan Snyder in fact
I applaud him for a lot of the things he does for the community…heck I’m involved with a lot of the charity work he does for the community. I just think he hasn’t figured out the NFL thing yet. I’m on record as saying that I think he eventually will. When he does I believe he will look back and admit that he did some thing wrong in the begining

Here's a nice little quote from your 2nd link:

It’s not yet clear why Spagnuolo turned down the Redskins, or if he was actually offered the job.

Sounds like a whole lot of speculation to me after reading 'em. The 1st is a game recap with a blog temperment. The second one IS, in fact, a blog.

Haven't we discussed time and time again about unnamed "sources." Hell, I could be a source for something in molecular biology, and I have a hard time spelling the damn subject.

And why some can't see the glaring obvious in the other direction seems baffling to me. First, I have my right arm in a cast, so I can't be too lengthy with this.

But, first of all, Snyder, Cerrato and Spags himself said publicly that Spags was NEVER offered the job. You can't turn down something that was never offered. The media's vindictive and malicious speculation as to why means nothing. Spags was never offered the job... period. The rest is just smoke filled coffeehouse crap.

Here's what I see and don't understand why others don't. By now, we all know what type of person Zorn is, a good person with an incredible personality. Before he was hired, we knew very little about him, as did Snyder and Cerrato. Point being, I can see now why Zorn was liked so much.

My take is... while they were interviewing him for the OC job, they were very impressed and knew he was potential head coach material. But rather than making a quick decision, they thought it should be prudent to perform their due diligence and interview everyone on their list... and they did.

So after the interviews were complete, they huddled and came to the conclusion that Zorn had impressed the most with his ideologies, philosophies and visions.

They did the right thing by taking their time. If you are a manager and there are 10 people to interview, even if you like candidate #3 and think he's your guy, the prudent and professional thing to do is still interview everyone. That's called due diligence.

But here's what escapes any of the naysayers arguments. Some say Snyder had to settle for Zorn. Well, there were 4 or 5 other coaches out there just itching to get hired by Snyder. Fassell, Mariucci, Caldwell, Schwartz and Williams were all interviewed and would have jumped in a second. And I'll bet Saunders would have taken it in a NY minute if he was offered the gig.

We already had Zorn... let me say that again... we already had Zorn, so if Snyder didn't think Zorn was HC material initially, he could have just hired Fassell, Muriucci or Williams... all with previous head coaching experience. But instead he just promoted Zorn. That tells me that they really liked Zorn but simply wanted to complete entire interviewing process and the due diligence.

And for the record, I'd rather have Zorn than Spags anyway.

VetSkinsFan wrote:Here's a nice little quote from your 2nd link:

It’s not yet clear why Spagnuolo turned down the Redskins, or if he was actually offered the job.

Sounds like a whole lot of speculation to me after reading 'em. The 1st is a game recap with a blog temperment. The second one IS, in fact, a blog.

Haven't we discussed time and time again about unnamed "sources." Hell, I could be a source for something in molecular biology, and I have a hard time spelling the damn subject.

And I said as much in my post...like I said it doesn't matter what links we post you will discredit them all...fine. But I still don't understand why the Skins went to great lenght to deny something they never did??
As I said we are splitting hairs...All indications are that Snyder wanted to hire Spags...OK so Spags withdrew before the offer does that make my post moot??
Spags did not want the Redskins job.

SkinsFreak wrote:And why some can't see the glaring obvious in the other direction seems baffling to me. First, I have my right arm in a cast, so I can't be too lengthy with this.

But, first of all, Snyder, Cerrato and Spags himself said publicly that Spags was NEVER offered the job. You can't turn down something that was never offered. The media's vindictive and malicious speculation as to why means nothing. Spags was never offered the job... period. The rest is just smoke filled coffeehouse crap.

Here's what I see and don't understand why others don't. By now, we all know what type of person Zorn is, a good person with an incredible personality. Before he was hired, we knew very little about him, as did Snyder and Cerrato. Point being, I can see now why Zorn was liked so much.

My take is... while they were interviewing him for the OC job, they were very impressed and knew he was potential head coach material. But rather than making a quick decision, they thought it should be prudent to perform their due diligence and interview everyone on their list... and they did.

So after the interviews were complete, they huddled and came to the conclusion that Zorn had impressed the most with his ideologies, philosophies and visions.

They did the right thing by taking their time. If you are a manager and there are 10 people to interview, even if you like candidate #3 and think he's your guy, the prudent and professional thing to do is still interview everyone. That's called due diligence.

But here's what escapes any of the naysayers arguments. Some say Snyder had to settle for Zorn. Well, there were 4 or 5 other coaches out there just itching to get hired by Snyder. Fassell, Mariucci, Caldwell, Schwartz and Williams were all interviewed and would have jumped in a second. And I'll bet Saunders would have taken it in a NY minute if he was offered the gig.

We already had Zorn... let me say that again... we already had Zorn, so if Snyder didn't think Zorn was HC material initially, he could have just hired Fassell, Muriucci or Williams... all with previous head coaching experience. But instead he just promoted Zorn. That tells me that they really liked Zorn but simply wanted to complete entire interviewing process and the due diligence.

And for the record, I'd rather have Zorn than Spags anyway.

I don't think you'll find many who will say Zorn was more qualified than Spags...I don't remember any other team interviewing Zorn for HC...Spags had many offers this year.

Not sure about Caldwell...I think you mean Meeks I'll give you Fassel who wants a job anywhere...but show me a link where those coaches were "itching to get hired by Snyder"

I don't care what anyone says. Zorn is there because no one else would touch this team with VC and DC running the show.

Does anyone here remember that Zorn was in the first place hired as OC? All the interviews to the other coaches came AFTER Zorn had been locked up AT LEAST as OC.

So yeah, they had their guy all along, but interviewed a bunch of people just in case... (sighing)

That's some twisted logic by Danny and Co. LOL.

Zorn seems like a good coach. That's fine. But you can't argue that Spags had A LOT more credentials after last year's SB win. He was white-hot.

Jim Zorn was hired to be the offensive coordinator for Jim Fassel. Unfortunately the fan backlash for hiring Fassel was so strong that the front office broke down and was left with a pretty embarrassing situation.

Personally I think Jim Fassel is a good coach and would have fit in nicely here, but a lot of (stupid) fans don't want a "retread".

You know re-tread's like Pete Carrol, Bill Belichick, Tony Dungy, John Gruden... etc. etc.

A guy can learn a lot from a firing.

Skinsfan55 wrote:A guy can learn a lot from a firing.

Learning from past experiences isn't allowed in this organization.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:A guy can learn a lot from a firing.

Learning from past experiences isn't allowed in this organization.

Sorry, I forgot

Nor is it practiced.