The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

It sucks that we could have traded Rocky (and more obviously) for Lance Briggs but declined.

and more obviously

It's not like that "and more" was just a $15 Gift Card to Wal-Mart.

I believe it was a 50 dollar gift card

I'm always arguing that you don't ignore position, but you strongly tilt towards the best player. But man, if there's a good OT available at #13 I don't see how we pass that up.

Skinsfan55 wrote:I believe it was a 50 dollar gift card

In the form of a 1st round draft pick...

brad7686 wrote:

funbunch65 wrote:I agree we need a DT, but I also think we need a DE just as bad. I would actually prefer that we take a DE with the 13th pick. There will be 3 OT's gone by the time we pick so we shouldn't reach on an OT. We should adress the Dline with the 13th pick if we stay put. If our front office is hellbent on taking an OT we should definately trade back a get a couple extra picks.

Even if three OT's were gone, it would not be reaching to take the fourth at 13. OT is rather stacked with talent this draft.

I can agree with this statement if one of the following fall to 13: Andre Smith, Eugene Monroe, Jason Smith, or Otah. I would actually like to grab Raji or Orakpo over Otah though.

PulpExposure wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:I believe it was a 50 dollar gift card

In the form of a 1st round draft pick...

I know I'd rather have Rocky and a chance to repair our O-line than having Lance Briggs plus that many more THN members furious about us trading away a #1 and not stopping until the whole universe hears it.

PulpExposure wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:I believe it was a 50 dollar gift card

In the form of a 1st round draft pick...

Thank you!

funbunch65 wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

funbunch65 wrote:I agree we need a DT, but I also think we need a DE just as bad. I would actually prefer that we take a DE with the 13th pick. There will be 3 OT's gone by the time we pick so we shouldn't reach on an OT. We should adress the Dline with the 13th pick if we stay put. If our front office is hellbent on taking an OT we should definately trade back a get a couple extra picks.

Even if three OT's were gone, it would not be reaching to take the fourth at 13. OT is rather stacked with talent this draft.

I can agree with this statement if one of the following fall to 13: Andre Smith, Eugene Monroe, Jason Smith, or Otah. I would actually like to grab Raji or Orakpo over Otah though.

Do you mean Oher? Otah was drafted last year i believe. Raji could be a good pickup, I'm not sure Orakpo will be a 4-3 DE, especially since we already send Carter out there at his size, but i could be wrong. I like Oher as much as Monroe and J. Smith, because his arms are gonna hold up well in the NFL in pass blocking. He's also a powerful run blocker. Andre Smith is huge but will be gone I would think.

brad7686 wrote:

funbunch65 wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

funbunch65 wrote:I agree we need a DT, but I also think we need a DE just as bad. I would actually prefer that we take a DE with the 13th pick. There will be 3 OT's gone by the time we pick so we shouldn't reach on an OT. We should adress the Dline with the 13th pick if we stay put. If our front office is hellbent on taking an OT we should definately trade back a get a couple extra picks.

Even if three OT's were gone, it would not be reaching to take the fourth at 13. OT is rather stacked with talent this draft.

I can agree with this statement if one of the following fall to 13: Andre Smith, Eugene Monroe, Jason Smith, or Otah. I would actually like to grab Raji or Orakpo over Otah though.

Do you mean Oher? Otah was drafted last year i believe. Raji could be a good pickup, I'm not sure Orakpo will be a 4-3 DE, especially since we already send Carter out there at his size, but i could be wrong. I like Oher as much as Monroe and J. Smith, because his arms are gonna hold up well in the NFL in pass blocking. He's also a powerful run blocker. Andre Smith is huge but will be gone I would think.

Yeah I meant Oher, my bad. Would like to have gotten Otah last year though, he had a pretty good year with the Panthers this year. Point is I wouldn't be upset if we drafted any of the before mentioned. We just need line help period. There is a pretty big drop off after those top 4 OT's, just hope there not all taken before our pick. Seems like alot of teams need tackles this year.

All this will change after the combine workouts, but, I will add that Monroe, UVA, has been very durable, a trait that we desperately need on our OL. Also he played guard in 2007 opposite another 1st rounder from UVA, Brandon Albert. So he will be drafted as a tackle, but two positives are: 1) durable 2) experience at guard

I reiterate my previous posts...what gives anybody any confidence in our scouting department? Read the following on the Malcolm Kelly pick. Why did we pick him? This is ludicrous...as a presumably good business man (Snyder), shouldn't you always be on the "value" side of a deal and not be getting taken by even Tom, Dick, and Malcolm?

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/new ... s/2132309/

Even though the NFL Draft Advisory Committee projected Kelly as a second-rounder, Kelly skipped his senior season and entered the draft, where he was taken by the Redskins with the 51st overall pick.

But, according to the source, Kelly faced an unusual circumstance that forced his hand.

"Malcolm's situation was different, as a lot of people have figured out. Malcolm had knee problems. The reason he slipped (in the draft) is because they knew about his knee. There's not a lot of cartilage in there," said the source, referring to a knee injury that kept Kelly inactive for all but five games of his rookie season.

"He's in the process of addressing it now. But had Malcolm been able to play in five games this year at OU, where would he be now? An undrafted free agent. That's why he had to get while the getting was still good."

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:I reiterate my previous posts...what gives anybody any confidence in our scouting department? Read the following on the Malcolm Kelly pick. Why did we pick him? This is ludicrous...as a presumably good business man (Snyder), shouldn't you always be on the "value" side of a deal and not be getting taken by even Tom, Dick, and Malcolm?

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/new ... s/2132309/

Even though the NFL Draft Advisory Committee projected Kelly as a second-rounder, Kelly skipped his senior season and entered the draft, where he was taken by the Redskins with the 51st overall pick.

But, according to the source, Kelly faced an unusual circumstance that forced his hand.

"Malcolm's situation was different, as a lot of people have figured out. Malcolm had knee problems. The reason he slipped (in the draft) is because they knew about his knee. There's not a lot of cartilage in there," said the source, referring to a knee injury that kept Kelly inactive for all but five games of his rookie season.

"He's in the process of addressing it now. But had Malcolm been able to play in five games this year at OU, where would he be now? An undrafted free agent. That's why he had to get while the getting was still good."

Drafting a player who is injured is not always a bad idea. Every situation is different. The Bills drafted McGahee 23rd after he blew out his knee and couldn't even participate in the Scouting combine. Most experts rated him as a 2nd or 3rd round gamble but the Bills fared pretty well.

If Kelly was viewed as a top 15 talent that could be had at #51 because of an injury they felt confident could be rehabbed, then I'd say it was a calculated gamble. Either way, it is pretty silly to think Snyder and Cerrato were not aware of it and didn't consider the issue at all.

fleetus wrote:

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:I reiterate my previous posts...what gives anybody any confidence in our scouting department? Read the following on the Malcolm Kelly pick. Why did we pick him? This is ludicrous...as a presumably good business man (Snyder), shouldn't you always be on the "value" side of a deal and not be getting taken by even Tom, Dick, and Malcolm?

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/new ... s/2132309/

Even though the NFL Draft Advisory Committee projected Kelly as a second-rounder, Kelly skipped his senior season and entered the draft, where he was taken by the Redskins with the 51st overall pick.

But, according to the source, Kelly faced an unusual circumstance that forced his hand.

"Malcolm's situation was different, as a lot of people have figured out. Malcolm had knee problems. The reason he slipped (in the draft) is because they knew about his knee. There's not a lot of cartilage in there," said the source, referring to a knee injury that kept Kelly inactive for all but five games of his rookie season.

"He's in the process of addressing it now. But had Malcolm been able to play in five games this year at OU, where would he be now? An undrafted free agent. That's why he had to get while the getting was still good."

Drafting a player who is injured is not always a bad idea. Every situation is different. The Bills drafted McGahee 23rd after he blew out his knee and couldn't even participate in the Scouting combine. Most experts rated him as a 2nd or 3rd round gamble but the Bills fared pretty well.

If Kelly was viewed as a top 15 talent that could be had at #51 because of an injury they felt confident could be rehabbed, then I'd say it was a calculated gamble. Either way, it is pretty silly to think Snyder and Cerrato were not aware of it and didn't consider the issue at all.

Not only that, in the wording he quoted, the NFL advised Kelly he'd be a 2nd round pick. Seems that the Skins picked him where he was supposed to go...

I feel like fans, we are always complaining. Its not like we went from being really good to really bad in the recent history.

I think that our biggest concern is that we have not used the draft to build our team. Our owner has not shown patience with other coaches. I would have loved to see Marty here a bit longer to see what he could do. I wish Danny took on a role more like Jerry Richards of the Panthers.

I hope that we trade down from #13 (bad luck) to a late 1st or 2 seconds and a third or something like that. I don't know what the value of the pick is but we have a few area's that need upgrades and one draft pick or f/a will not correct those issues for a younger team.

Updated: Who is saying that we need Cornerbacks....??? This is ridiculous.

Link Partners Mocks Redskins 1st RD
  The Hazean CB Malcolm Jenkins
  Sports2Debate CB Vontae Davis
  NFL Mock Draft Aces DE Aaron Maybin
  Consensus Draft DE Brian Orakpo
    MyNFLDraft.com DT B.J. Raji
  ProFootballAmerica.com OT Jason Smith
 Football Jabber (Lee) DE Everett Brown
 Football Jabber (TJ) DE Michael Johnson
 Kornheiser's Cartel LB James Laurinaitis
 Dawg Pound Daily DE Everett Brown
 Draft Dude DT B.J. Raji
 NFL Draft Experts OT Jason Smith
 Pro Sports Draft DT B.J. Rahi
 SIDELION Report OT Jason SMith
  Draft Ace LB Rey Maualuga
  Draft Daddy DT Peria Jerry
 BlackandTeal.com OT Jason Smith
 Draft Guru OT Jason Smith
  NFL Draft Watch OT Jason Smith
 NFL News & Rumors DE Everett Brown
 College Sports Masters OT Jason Smith
 Draftingforthefuture DE Aaron Maybin
 Ramblin' Fan DE Everett Brown
  Draft King DT B.J. Raji
 Draft Tek DE Michael Johnson
 Seahawks Draft Blog OT Eben Britton
 NE Patriots Draft LB Aaron Curry
  Draft Season (Onebar) OT Michael Oher
  WalterFootball (Matt) LB Aaron Curry
 Sports Fantasy Guide LB Aaron Curry
   WalterFootball (Walt) OT Eben Britton
  Lucky Lester OT Jason Smith
  AP Football (Patrick) CB Vontae Davis
  AP Football (Andrew) CB Malcolm Jenkins
  Draft Bulletin LB Brian Cushing
  Draft Board Insider  OT Jason Smith
  Sports Projections OT Jason Smth
 Qi Sports LB Brian Orakpo
  The Huddle Report OG Duke Robinson
 Great Blue Draft OT Jason Smith
  NFL Draft Blitz LB Rey Maualuga
  NFL Draft Specialists RB Knowshon Moreno
   Saturdays2Sundays OG Duke Robinson
 FootballExpert (Allen) DE Michael Johnson
   Fantasy Football Xtreme OT Eugene Monroe
  Draft Season (Out) DE Greg Hardy
   The Landry Hat LB Aaron Curry
   Arrowhead Addicts OT Eugene Monroe
  NewSportDraft.com OLB Clint Sintim
  Chris Steuber (Scout)  OT Jason Smith
  Sports City DE Everett Brown
  Draft Season (Lup)  LB Brian Cushing
  FF Toolbox (Ben) OT Michael Oher
  Bronco Madness DE Michael Johnson
    FootballExpert (Mike) DE Michael Johnson
  NFL Smackdown OT Andre Smith
 NFLDraftU DE Everett Brown
  FF Toolbox (Joel) DE George Selvie
  FF Jungle (Andy) DT B.J. Raji
 FF Toolbox (Randall) CB Vontae Davis
  NFL Mocks (Daniel) CB Victor Harris
  KC Chiefs Fanatic LB Rey Maualuga
  Packer Chatters LB James Laurinaitis
  Online Sports Fanatic OT Jason Smith
  FF Toolbox (Ricky) DE George Selvie
  FF Toolbox (Raul) LB James Laurinaitis
  NFL Draft Countdown DE Michael Johnson
  Cowboys Pride LB Brandon Spikes
  NFL Weekly CB Vontae Davis
    PhinPhantic  OG Duke Robinson
  Draft.com DE George Selvie
Buffalowdown No Pick Yet
  NFL DRAFT SOURCE OT Jason Smith
   NFL Draft Dog DT B.J. Raji
   Football Future LB James Laurinaitis
  BoilerMacR DE Tyson Jackson
   The NFL Draft Site CB Alphonso Smith
Sports Jabber DT Sen'Derrick Marks
  NFL Draft Post DE Tyson Jackson
 Huddlegeeks.com WR Kenny Britt
ObsessedWithSports.com CB Victor Harris
  KCChiefs Fanatic CB Mike Mickens
  Fantasy Football Jungle DT Peria Jerry
 FF ToolBox (Dustin) WR Jeremy Laclin
  NFLHOUSE DE Michael Johnson
Draft32 OG Duke Robinson
 Heard's Football Report CB Alphonso SMith
 CoverTwo C Alex Mack
 Sports News Southwest CB Mike Mickens
 Football Wire LB Sean Witherspoon
 NFL Draft Geek OT Eugene Monroe
  Draft Empire Sen'Derrick Marks
  SportsViews  CB Malcolm Jenkins
  PHSports  LB Rey Maualuga
   Football.com (Mike) DT Fili Moala
 FootballExpert (Cox) DT Fili Moala
  Football Draft Analysis DE George Selvie
  Draft Headquarters S Taylor Mays
  NFL Mocks (Zack) OT Phil Loadholt
  WalterFootball (Greg) SS Taylor Mays
 Pro Draft Guide LB James Laurinaitis
  New Era Scouting DE Tyson Jackson
 49ers Thoughts DT Fili Moala
  Sports Fury DE Greg Middleton
Sourced NFL DE Tyson Jackson
  53 Deep S Myron Rolle
  Red Zone Report DE Tyson Jackson
NCAA Gridiron Gab DE Greg Hardy
 LS WTF  DE Jeffrey Fitzgerald


http://www.hailredskins.com/MockDraft.htm

fleetus wrote:

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:I reiterate my previous posts...what gives anybody any confidence in our scouting department? Read the following on the Malcolm Kelly pick. Why did we pick him? This is ludicrous...as a presumably good business man (Snyder), shouldn't you always be on the "value" side of a deal and not be getting taken by even Tom, Dick, and Malcolm?

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/new ... s/2132309/

Even though the NFL Draft Advisory Committee projected Kelly as a second-rounder, Kelly skipped his senior season and entered the draft, where he was taken by the Redskins with the 51st overall pick.

But, according to the source, Kelly faced an unusual circumstance that forced his hand.

"Malcolm's situation was different, as a lot of people have figured out. Malcolm had knee problems. The reason he slipped (in the draft) is because they knew about his knee. There's not a lot of cartilage in there," said the source, referring to a knee injury that kept Kelly inactive for all but five games of his rookie season.

"He's in the process of addressing it now. But had Malcolm been able to play in five games this year at OU, where would he be now? An undrafted free agent. That's why he had to get while the getting was still good."

Drafting a player who is injured is not always a bad idea. Every situation is different. The Bills drafted McGahee 23rd after he blew out his knee and couldn't even participate in the Scouting combine. Most experts rated him as a 2nd or 3rd round gamble but the Bills fared pretty well.

If Kelly was viewed as a top 15 talent that could be had at #51 because of an injury they felt confident could be rehabbed, then I'd say it was a calculated gamble. Either way, it is pretty silly to think Snyder and Cerrato were not aware of it and didn't consider the issue at all.

I would have agreed with you in the past if it weren't for two recent and very visible free agent additions that point to the contrary: Brandon Lloyd and Adam Archleta.

With Archuleta in particular, the book on him was that he a "spent" player like a punch drunk boxer. Everybody in the league (except Lovie Smith) was shocked that the Skins paid him like they did. There were only two teams involved in the bidding war...the Skins and the Bears. Both eventually got the short end of the "Archuleta stick" over the next couple years.

So, what past history makes you believe, in any way the Skins, have any idea what they are doing? I have learned that you can never underestimate the incompetency of the Skins front office in a Snyder ownership.

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:I have learned that you can never underestimate the incompetency of the Skins front office in a Snyder ownership.

Then you must have quite on the learning process a long time ago. Just because you've ceased with continual education doesn't mean the world has stopped rotating and hasn't evolved since.

SkinsFreak wrote:

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:I have learned that you can never underestimate the incompetency of the Skins front office in a Snyder ownership.

Then you must have quite on the learning process a long time ago. Just because you've ceased with continual education doesn't mean the world has stopped rotating and hasn't evolved since.

What? I'm gonna need a decoder ring to figure out what this one means....did you mean "quit" instead of "quite"....did you mean "continuing education" instead of "continual education"?

Spell check could have been an option or possibly re-reading the post before hitting the "Submit" button....

...and there's always the possibility that you were under the inference of a halluocengeneric drug when you made this post.

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:I have learned that you can never underestimate the incompetency of the Skins front office in a Snyder ownership.

Then you must have quite on the learning process a long time ago. Just because you've ceased with continual education doesn't mean the world has stopped rotating and hasn't evolved since.

What? I'm gonna need a decoder ring to figure out what this one means....did you mean "quit" instead of "quite"....did you mean "continuing education" instead of "continual education"?

Spell check could have been an option or possibly re-reading the post before hitting the "Submit" button....

...and there's always the possibility that you were under the inference of a halluocengeneric drug when you made this post.

Through the years I've LEARNED that the FO makes little sense in their personel decisions.

It's not a question of "learning", I think. These people are grown men, they don't change that easily or at all. Kids can change, not grown men and their attitudes and the way they view the NFL.

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:I have learned that you can never underestimate the incompetency of the Skins front office in a Snyder ownership.

Then you must have quite on the learning process a long time ago. Just because you've ceased with continual education doesn't mean the world has stopped rotating and hasn't evolved since.

What? I'm gonna need a decoder ring to figure out what this one means....did you mean "quit" instead of "quite"....did you mean "continuing education" instead of "continual education"?

Spell check could have been an option or possibly re-reading the post before hitting the "Submit" button....

...and there's always the possibility that you were under the inference of a halluocengeneric drug when you made this post.

HA! That's friggin hilarious! You're right, 2 Percocets and 3 gin and tonics... (I've had 2 surgeries in the past month)

My point remains however.

Well guys, after crunching some numbers, here are the TOP votes compiled from many mock draft websites. The top guys are:

OT, Jason Smith, 13 votes
DE, Everett Brown, 7 votes
DE, Michael Johnson (not Jackson), 7 votes
DT, BJ Raji, 6 votes
DE, Tyson Jackson, 5 votes
LB, James Laurinaitis, 5 votes
OT, Michael Oher, 4 votes
LB, Aaron Curry, 4 votes
CB, Vontae Davis, 4 votes
DE, George Selvie, 4 votes

The winner is Jason Smith. That's my prediction with my thoroughly Un-scientific process of elimination....



http://www.hailredskins.com/MockDraft.htm

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:

fleetus wrote:

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:I reiterate my previous posts...what gives anybody any confidence in our scouting department? Read the following on the Malcolm Kelly pick. Why did we pick him? This is ludicrous...as a presumably good business man (Snyder), shouldn't you always be on the "value" side of a deal and not be getting taken by even Tom, Dick, and Malcolm?

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/new ... s/2132309/

Even though the NFL Draft Advisory Committee projected Kelly as a second-rounder, Kelly skipped his senior season and entered the draft, where he was taken by the Redskins with the 51st overall pick.

But, according to the source, Kelly faced an unusual circumstance that forced his hand.

"Malcolm's situation was different, as a lot of people have figured out. Malcolm had knee problems. The reason he slipped (in the draft) is because they knew about his knee. There's not a lot of cartilage in there," said the source, referring to a knee injury that kept Kelly inactive for all but five games of his rookie season.

"He's in the process of addressing it now. But had Malcolm been able to play in five games this year at OU, where would he be now? An undrafted free agent. That's why he had to get while the getting was still good."

Drafting a player who is injured is not always a bad idea. Every situation is different. The Bills drafted McGahee 23rd after he blew out his knee and couldn't even participate in the Scouting combine. Most experts rated him as a 2nd or 3rd round gamble but the Bills fared pretty well.

If Kelly was viewed as a top 15 talent that could be had at #51 because of an injury they felt confident could be rehabbed, then I'd say it was a calculated gamble. Either way, it is pretty silly to think Snyder and Cerrato were not aware of it and didn't consider the issue at all.

I would have agreed with you in the past if it weren't for two recent and very visible free agent additions that point to the contrary: Brandon Lloyd and Adam Archleta.

With Archuleta in particular, the book on him was that he a "spent" player like a punch drunk boxer. Everybody in the league (except Lovie Smith) was shocked that the Skins paid him like they did. There were only two teams involved in the bidding war...the Skins and the Bears. Both eventually got the short end of the "Archuleta stick" over the next couple years.

So, what past history makes you believe, in any way the Skins, have any idea what they are doing? I have learned that you can never underestimate the incompetency of the Skins front office in a Snyder ownership.

It is easy to just sort of lump all of the past mistakes in one bundle and throw your hands up in frustration. BUT, if you look at it closely, there is a different story. here's our noteable players added/lost list for the past 3 years, drafted players with an *:

2006
Added
B. Lloyd
Archuleta
T. Collins
Duckett
*Doughty
*Montgomery
*Golston
*McIntosh

Lost
W. Harris
P. Ramsey

2007
Added
P. Kendall
F. Smoot
L. Fletcher
*L. Landry
*Blades

Lost
Duckett
Wynn
W. Holdman
Stoutmire
L. Marshall
Dockery

Cerrato named V.P. of Football Ops

2008
Added
Erasmus James
Schweigert
*C. Horton
*Tryon
*K. Moore
*Rhinehart
*Kelly
*Brennan
*D. Thomas
*F. Davis

Lost
T. Wade
V. Fox

Now, I realize that we're only one season removed from those 2008 draft picks. But still, it is obvious that by keeping all our picks and drafting all those players, the number of players who eventually contribute will increase. I would say it is a safe bet that 4 of them will be solid contributors in 2 years. That is better than we can say for the previous 2 years where all we have to show for it are a few marginal starters plus Landry. If we have to depend on top 10 picks like Landry, then it means we are finishing at the bottom of the league every year. So last year, with nothing higher than #21, we hauled in a good class comparatively. If we drafted like that for 3-4 years in a row, we would have a nice mix of young up and coming players. This all happened after Cerrato was named VP of Football. So let's see what he does this year. Hopefully he continues the strategy of emphasizing the draft over free agents, not overpaying for free agents and not giving away too many draft picks.

Don't forget Ryan Clark!

I'm not sure I understand this love fest for Ryan Clark all of a sudden. He's been a decent contributor for Pitt in the tackling department, but only has 5 Int's in 7 years as a pro. Horton had 3 Int's in his rookie year alone. And if the discussion surrounding Clark resurfaced merely due to his hit on Willis McGahee, well I also remember a huge hit on Chad Johnson made by Kareem Moore.

Remember, we drafted Sean Taylor and LaRon Landry, so releasing Ryan Clark at the time was not a major loss. And if Taylor was still alive, we wouldn't be having this discussion. We now have Landry, Horton and Moore with the possibility of moving Springs to safety for us, so I'm not really missing Clark and I don't blame the team for releasing him at the time.