The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Countertrey wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:Our offense still stinks, but the defense looked terrific.

The defense has pretty consistently done more than enough to win every game. The offense is a huge problem.

That statement is simply not true! YESTERDAY the defense did more than enough to win! The D has played almost every game well enough to keep the team in games, but yesterdays game was the first game they did more than enough to win.

Heck Cincy's D shut out the Browns AND scored as much as their Offense! Cincy's D (7), Cincy's O (7); Brown zero, zip, zilch.

redskins14ru wrote:he is a learner and a thinker he wants the job for the long run and I, In my opinion will vote KEEP THE COACH. he will be surrounded with good people and coaches the skins football team as a head coach very well

one more week left and I am allready convinced that he should be a pilar at the HC position.

I agree. A few weeks ago he looked like he had no control over this team and the players didnt really respond to him but after seeing him joking around with ARE and London Fletcher on the sideline yesterday, it looks like the players still like him.

And the more I think about it it would be stupid to fire a guy who is in his first year putting in an offense. I mean, come on Snyder you gave Saunders two years as offensive coordinator. And it would screw up JC's future by giving him another offense to learn.

Yesterday's win doesn't mean we're a good football team or that we have a good head coach but at least it made us see that there is some pride in those guys wearing burgundy and gold, particularly on the defensive side of the football, and also on special teams. Not only was the punter excellent, I was impressed with our kick-off coverage and the general intensity of the third unit. Most of all, I loved the hard hitting display from Laron Landry. He was always going to find it hard to win my approval with that last name, but yesterday he was immense. It was only right that the final play of the game was a crushing Laron hit. I woke up my family just after midnight UK time as he stopped those Philly pukes short of the play-offs - they can get some sleep over the holidays.....

SkinFan63 wrote:Winning by 10 points is beyond pathetic.

Why?

Isn't a win a win. If they had scored 50 and lost would that have made you feel better?

The D FINALLY came out and played a complete game (even if they tried to screw it up at the end!)

Would I like this team to score more? Of course! But right now this is not the make up of this team. This team needs the D to play complete games and they finally did it. The O sucks right now, so the D has to play like they did yesterday and not give up game clinching 4th 1/4 drives or letting pathetic offenses like Cincy score 17 points before everyone is in from the parking lot.

This is the type of game they should have played against the Rams and Bengirls. Maybe we would still be in the hunt for the playoffs!

Fred Smoot made a statment after the game saying something like "It's not like we have been under acheiving as a defense, but we had left things on the feild and it was great to play a complete game". Not an exact quote, but fairly close and it captures the essenses of what he said.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:You don't know what the coverages were that last drive, either. I suspect that if the corners are kickin tail the 1st 50 minutes and then "suck" the last 10, it's not the corners' fault, but the D coord.

I'd have to agree.

We don't have a defense that can attack in the final minutes of a game becuse we can't pressure the QB. Gregg is playing it right for the personnel that we have.

1. Don't get beat deep.
2. Keep them in front of you.
3. Make them burn their timeouts.
4. When they get to the redzone the field shrinks and becomes easier to defend.

That was clearly prevent coverage. I hate it, especially when your team has played so well on defense. It allows an offense that you've previously shut down to get into a rhythm and feel confident.

Corners played really well all game (but I would like to highlight, again, that Hall got caught looking at McNabb when covering Jackson on those two deep passes, and Jackson is just too damn fast to catch up to. Thankfully Jackson dropped the ball both times...MVP for us!)

skinsfan#33 wrote:Would I like this team to score more? Of course! But right now this is not the make up of this team.

skinsfan#33 wrote:This team needs the D to play complete games and they finally did it.

That absolutely makes ZERO SENSE. The offense gets a pass because it's not in their "make up"????? Jeeeezzzzz I wish this was the smack forum.

But it IS in the defense's "make-up" to defend 10 points? Truth be told, we're AMAZINGLY lucky that teams rarely put up more than 21 points on our defense due to the lack of a pass rush and you expect yesterdays performance week in and week out? Are you really serious?

Philly gave away two TD's from what I remember. That's 17 in addition to their FG.

We won due to Phillys ineptitude. Our defense isn't that stout, they aren't that good. But they are good enough where...oh goodness what's the point in even talkin about this anymore without going to smack.

Goodness gracious...

VetSkinsFan wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:I think JC will be awesome next year.

He's had 4 years to work towards something... how many more years will it take?

I agree that THIS was his season to show whether he can carry the team or not. He cannot.

He has good receivers. He has a GREAT RB putting close to 1.500 yard season. He has an old and injured OL but come on, you must deal with imperfect situations to show what you can really do.

Jason does not have the mechanics, accuracy, speed and quick decision making capabilities required to survive in the NFL as a top starter.

Is Campbell good enough to last as a player in the NFL? Yes. Would he play as a starter for another team if let go? Yes.

Will he ever be a top QB in the NFL? Hell NO!

If you agree with me that GREAT teams include a top QB. Campbell is a good backup and nothing else. We would need to have a DOMINANT OL to slow-down the game for Jason. We do not have it.

Let's face it guys: EVERY QB in the NFC East is better than Jason. We should not be surprised at the small number of points scored by this offense in most games this season.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:Would I like this team to score more? Of course! But right now this is not the make up of this team.

skinsfan#33 wrote:This team needs the D to play complete games and they finally did it.

That absolutely makes ZERO SENSE. The offense gets a pass because it's not in their "make up"????? Jeeeezzzzz I wish this was the smack forum.

But it IS in the defense's "make-up" to defend 10 points? Truth be told, we're AMAZINGLY lucky that teams rarely put up more than 21 points on our defense due to the lack of a pass rush and you expect yesterdays performance week in and week out? Are you really serious?

Philly gave away two TD's from what I remember. That's 17 in addition to their FG.

We won due to Phillys ineptitude. Our defense isn't that stout, they aren't that good. But they are good enough where...oh goodness what's the point in even talkin about this anymore without going to smack.

Goodness gracious...

CLL,
I realize that you just can't get this but I will break it down one more time.

I have NEVER given the offense a pass, but right now they are what they are.

But I refuse to give the Defense a pass just because they play well, when they could play great.

Yesterday they played great! They did what they needed to for the team to win.

You can't say that about the Bengals, 2nd Dallas game, Ravens, Rams, 2nd Giants game, or the Steelers game.

All of those games the Offense played like crap, BUT the D had opportunities to win the game and they didn't. The team lost, so the team didn’t do enough to win. The entire team could have done something to earn a win, but didn’t.

The difference between you and me is that I will still call out a group that is playing well when they can play better, but you refuse to blame anything but the Offense. All I have been trying to do is open everyone’s eyes to the fact that the offense isn’t the only problem!

Why can’t you get that? It isn’t that hard.

Is it that hard to comprehend that they DON'T HAVE A PASS RUSH?

Is it hard to comprehend that you can't expect consistency without a dominant defensive line?

Is it hard to comprehend that we ONLY won because Philly dropped passes and that had nothing to do with how our defense played? Those passes weren't errant due to an amazing pass rush. Those passes weren't incomplete because of deflections.... They were dropped. We got lucky.

Everyone knows that this defense has issues, you're not opening anyones eyes.

It's just a dumb issue to talk about when the offense isn't scoring enough points to take advantage of what the defense does.

You guys complained that the defense didn't give the offense enough chances to score. And when they get extra chances, they piss em away. What more do u want from this defense?

Heck, we didn't even pick a pass off yesterday.

We won cus D. Jackson dropped passes after torching our best CB...

We won because Philly's offensive was more incompetent than our own.

A win is a win but it was the same turd from last week, offensively. Although JC threw some decent passes to Betts to convert a few times.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Is it hard to comprehend that we ONLY won because Philly dropped passes and that had nothing to do with how our defense played? Those passes weren't errant due to an amazing pass rush. Those passes weren't incomplete because of deflections.... They were dropped. We got lucky.

Actually, some of those drops were because our secondary (notably Laron Landry) were just laying the Eagles' receivers out. Landry killed Jackson early in the game, and I think the kid got frazzled by how hard he got hit.

PulpExposure wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Is it hard to comprehend that we ONLY won because Philly dropped passes and that had nothing to do with how our defense played? Those passes weren't errant due to an amazing pass rush. Those passes weren't incomplete because of deflections.... They were dropped. We got lucky.

Actually, some of those drops were because our secondary (notably Laron Landry) were just laying the Eagles' receivers out. Landry killed Jackson early in the game, and I think the kid got frazzled by how hard he got hit.

More than once did Jackson open his eyes to see #30...

Redskin in Canada wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:I think JC will be awesome next year.

He's had 4 years to work towards something... how many more years will it take?

I agree that THIS was his season to show whether he can carry the team or not. He cannot.

He has good receivers. He has a GREAT RB putting close to 1.500 yard season. He has an old and injured OL but come on, you must deal with imperfect situations to show what you can really do.

Jason does not have the mechanics, accuracy, speed and quick decision making capabilities required to survive in the NFL as a top starter.

Is Campbell good enough to last as a player in the NFL? Yes. Would he play as a starter for another team if let go? Yes.

Will he ever be a top QB in the NFL? Hell NO!

If you agree with me that GREAT teams include a top QB. Campbell is a good backup and nothing else. We would need to have a DOMINANT OL to slow-down the game for Jason. We do not have it.

Let's face it guys: EVERY QB in the NFC East is better than Jason. We should not be surprised at the small number of points scored by this offense in most games this season.

One thing people keep forgetting is that in the 4 years of JC, he has only played in 35 games. Of those 35 games, there are 3 offensive systems with two head coaches and 3 offensive coordinators.

I'm not saying that he is going to be the next Steve Young in the W. Coast Offense but I'm not ready to throw him on the scrap heap yet. I would like to see him next year. Every good football mind says that this will take 3 years to build this program and I'm sorry if you don't want to wait. But for me, I'm ok for a few mediocre years for one fantastic Super Bowl Winning season.

PulpExposure wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Is it hard to comprehend that we ONLY won because Philly dropped passes and that had nothing to do with how our defense played? Those passes weren't errant due to an amazing pass rush. Those passes weren't incomplete because of deflections.... They were dropped. We got lucky.

Actually, some of those drops were because our secondary (notably Laron Landry) were just laying the Eagles' receivers out. Landry killed Jackson early in the game, and I think the kid got frazzled by how hard he got hit.

Yes, and it was awesome. I agree that the kid was frazzeled.... But that's not something that can be counted on every single game. There's no guarantee Laron will frazzle everyone. There's a very good chance that despite being frazzled, he makes the catch.

I love our D, you guys know I do and i'm not taking anything away from them but they got lucky.

That defense of ours played great and I think they played just as good yesterday as they have any other game this year. I do note that the pass rush was turned up a notch tho...

The offense even seemed to be a bit more active although the scoreboard didn't show it. I'm just tired of hearing about what the defense should be doing.

People should be in awe that they're playing this good WITHOUT A CRITICAL COMPONENT of any defense.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:People should be in awe that they're playing this good WITHOUT A CRITICAL COMPONENT of any defense.

Yeah it's pretty amazing the secondary is as good as they are without any freaking pass rush.

Didn't hurt yesterday that Andy Reid went back to retard status and forgot that running the ball can work, too.

frankcal20 wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:I think JC will be awesome next year.

He's had 4 years to work towards something... how many more years will it take?

I agree that THIS was his season to show whether he can carry the team or not. He cannot.

He has good receivers. He has a GREAT RB putting close to 1.500 yard season. He has an old and injured OL but come on, you must deal with imperfect situations to show what you can really do.

Jason does not have the mechanics, accuracy, speed and quick decision making capabilities required to survive in the NFL as a top starter.

Is Campbell good enough to last as a player in the NFL? Yes. Would he play as a starter for another team if let go? Yes.

Will he ever be a top QB in the NFL? Hell NO!

If you agree with me that GREAT teams include a top QB. Campbell is a good backup and nothing else. We would need to have a DOMINANT OL to slow-down the game for Jason. We do not have it.

Let's face it guys: EVERY QB in the NFC East is better than Jason. We should not be surprised at the small number of points scored by this offense in most games this season.

One thing people keep forgetting is that in the 4 years of JC, he has only played in 35 games. Of those 35 games, there are 3 offensive systems with two head coaches and 3 offensive coordinators.

I'm not saying that he is going to be the next Steve Young in the W. Coast Offense but I'm not ready to throw him on the scrap heap yet. I would like to see him next year. Every good football mind says that this will take 3 years to build this program and I'm sorry if you don't want to wait. But for me, I'm ok for a few mediocre years for one fantastic Super Bowl Winning season.

My point about JC is that there's no progress being shown throughout the season. Yes, I know he's been under amny different systems, but in THIS system, THIS year, I really didn't see any progress. I realize that it's not all him, but HE's not getting any better, an that's what bothers me. With practicing for 5 months, I would hope a great QB (which I was giving the benefit of the doubt in the beginning of the year) would show progress throughout the year, which he didn't. I don't think he can cut it.

PulpExposure wrote:That was clearly prevent coverage. I hate it, especially when your team has played so well on defense. It allows an offense that you've previously shut down to get into a rhythm and feel confident.

On Comcast's postgame show, they read a viewer e-mail to Blache about why the 'prevent' was played on the last drive. And, Blache's reply was along the lines of:

"That's what people get for listening to [i think he said stupid here] announcers. We were in the same defense we played all game. People need to watch the games with their own eyes and see for themselves."

Again, I'm paraphrasing that part. But he vehemently denied any change in defensive approach.

He also talked about having a spy on Westbrook on almost every snap -- an LB, a DE or a DT. That's when he lost me. To think that a DT can spy Bryan Westbrook is totally absurd.

They can't -- never could, never will.

VetSkinsFan wrote:My point about JC is that there's no progress being shown throughout the season. Yes, I know he's been under amny different systems, but in THIS system, THIS year, I really didn't see any progress. I realize that it's not all him, but HE's not getting any better, an that's what bothers me. With practicing for 5 months, I would hope a great QB (which I was giving the benefit of the doubt in the beginning of the year) would show progress throughout the year, which he didn't. I don't think he can cut it.

I feel the same way. I think it's a fair way of looking at it. There hasn't even been one game where he's lit it up and shown us potential.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:My point about JC is that there's no progress being shown throughout the season. Yes, I know he's been under amny different systems, but in THIS system, THIS year, I really didn't see any progress. I realize that it's not all him, but HE's not getting any better, an that's what bothers me. With practicing for 5 months, I would hope a great QB (which I was giving the benefit of the doubt in the beginning of the year) would show progress throughout the year, which he didn't. I don't think he can cut it.

I feel the same way. I think it's a fair way of looking at it. There hasn't even been one game where he's lit it up and shown us potential.

Oh God, CLL agreed with me...I'm doomed !!!!!

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:My point about JC is that there's no progress being shown throughout the season. Yes, I know he's been under amny different systems, but in THIS system, THIS year, I really didn't see any progress. I realize that it's not all him, but HE's not getting any better, an that's what bothers me. With practicing for 5 months, I would hope a great QB (which I was giving the benefit of the doubt in the beginning of the year) would show progress throughout the year, which he didn't. I don't think he can cut it.

I feel the same way. I think it's a fair way of looking at it. There hasn't even been one game where he's lit it up and shown us potential.

Oh God, CLL agreed with me...I'm doomed !!!!!

I think we agree on quite a few things.

RedskinsFreak wrote:Again, I'm paraphrasing that part. But he vehemently denied any change in defensive approach.

How is that possible? I saw them playing tight man coverage throughout the game, and then playing off the receivers on that last drive. Or am I missing something?

VetSkinsFan wrote:Oh God, CLL agreed with me...I'm doomed !!!!!

Doomed to be optimistic for games 1-3 of the season, and then become increasingly despondant as the season goes along?

I can be very optimistic when there is cause to be... I saw something in this offense after the Steelers game that showed me that they were finished and they proved me right, sadly. I was hoping they'd prove me wrong.

Champsturf wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:If Zorn is not the Coach next year, then Danny should get fired. I think that he did everything he could have done as a first year coach. Hell, we have a better record than a lot of teams and being that we installed a new offense, one would only expect it to stall.

Today was a great win. Gives the guys a lot to be excited for going into the off season and hopefully will have them ready to play next weekend to finish off on a high note. So we will see. Something tells me that I see us drafting need not best player available. Just my thinking.

Wow! You must not have noticed the Ravens or the Falcons this year, just to name 2. Frankly, for the money that Snyder pays out, I would expect a better on-field product. I am NOT content with 9-7, sorry. If other teams can get rookie this and rookie that and be sucessful, then why can't the Redskins? This is just getting soooo old.

As far as Zorn, I don't like at all what he has done in the 2nd half of the season, but I think that he should stay. Campbell, on the other hand, is another wasted draft pick. He's servicable, at best. Hell, I'd take ramsey back right now; we at least know that he'd be willing to chuck the ball down the field. Why is it that Campbell only seems to do it when he feels that he should, not when it's the right time? Two of his long passes today were into double coverage at LEAST! He can't spot man coverage and do it then? He just isn't the one, and I have been a Campbell guy for awhile...

Don't forget about the Dolphins with first year head coaches and a QB with a candy-arm getting it done. They were 1-15 last year.

Dannyboy has overpaid for players and fortunately there is NO salary cap for coaches. He paid Spurrier $5 Million/year for 12 wins.

Campbell does seem to hold the ball and it's odd when he does decide to throw into coverage. He doesn't always seem to make his reads.

You're not allowed the questin Dan Snyder because he's a true fan. Even though throwing cash at the problem has yet to fix it, it doesn't matter because he cares.

spudstr04 wrote:

NJ-SKINS-FAN wrote:peter king says danny might want mike holemgren to be the pres. al-la fat bill in maimi

That actually sounds good. Mike has worked with Zorn and could easily help him make the transition into head coach. There are still a lot of things that Zorn needs to learn and who better to help him than a former Super Bowl coach and his mentor.

x2

Chris Luva Luva wrote:You're not allowed the questin Dan Snyder because he's a true fan. Even though throwing cash at the problem has yet to fix it, it doesn't matter because he cares.

That is the thing about Dannyboy. He is willing to spend money. It's way beter than being in Cincy where that owner won't get off his wallet. I just wish that the money was spent more wisely and that he knew what market value is for the particular players he wants to sign through free agency. This past year we stayed out of the free agent market because we didn't really have room under the cap. If we have the UNCAPPED year in 2010, look out, we'll probably be just like the evil empire in New York.