The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Wow Mister Kazoo... Don't know that song but YEAH

GIVE ZORNY A CHANCE....HOW 'BOUT IT.........???

tribeofjudah wrote:Wow Mister Kazoo... Don't know that song but YEAH

GIVE ZORNY A CHANCE....HOW 'BOUT IT.........???

It's Give Peace a Chance by John Lennon.

na na na na hey hey hey good bye. Zorn himself is already mentally defeated calling himself the worst coach alive. So guess what i believe him..bye bye

prinzeofmoval wrote:na na na na hey hey hey good bye. Zorn himself is already mentally defeated calling himself the worst coach alive. So guess what i believe him..bye bye

is that you........portiz-2-skins.....???? Coming back in disguise, are you???

Zorn is a good coach. He's a relatively young and inexperienced coach. The only reason you hire a guy like Zorn is to give him a few years to develop a team and his own coaching skill. If you pull the plug after the first season you look like an idiot.

(please don't let this organization disappear back into the knee-jerk, fantasy football mode of operation that preceded Gibbs)

tribeofjudah wrote:Here is Wilbon's take:

But a 6-2 start sent people, even men associated with the team, way past hopeful and straight to expectant. The talk midway through the season was whether Jason Campbell or Clinton Portis would get more votes for league MVP; whether Zorn was doing better than rookie coaches Mike Smith, John Harbaugh and Tony Sparano; whether the Redskins would make the playoffs as a wild-card or division winner. There was no end to the giddiness after eight games.

Except now, approaching the final two games of the season, 7-7 seems disastrous, like the first half was little more than a cruel tease. The same folks who were so in love with Campbell and Zorn want the former benched and the latter fired. Most of the opinions lean in the favor of something dramatic, something bold. People are angry because once again, the Washington Redskins are about to get an early jump on the offseason.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03169.html[/quote

we make the playoffs

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:Wow Mister Kazoo... Don't know that song but YEAH

GIVE ZORNY A CHANCE....HOW 'BOUT IT.........???

It's Give Peace a Chance by John Lennon.

And a very nice job it was.

I say to not give him a chance would be a huge disappointment for me. I'm disgusted with the downturn, but I'm MORE disgusted with the constant changing of the guard. I just keep thinking back to Gibbs first year (yeah, I'm unfortunately old enough to remember that as an adult), and choose to prefer giving Zorn a shot at really running this team. I've grown real tired of starting over every year or so.

HIP HIP HOORAY........... ZORNY WILL BE BACK NEXT SEASON. THAT'S THE RIGHT DECISION.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02172.html

Good. It would be a terrible blunder to fire Zorn. He's not Joe Gibbs, but he's a competent coach -- already -- and he's finding his way. No, Zorn does not appear to be another Norv Turner.

And, yes, I remember the complaints that the Redskins went to the playoffs twice under Gibbs, but each time they had to win their last four or five games to make it. Fans here kept asking, "why couldn't they clinch sooner?"

People see the team start 6 - 2 and suddenly we have Lombardi's Packers. Then the OL gets hurt, the offense never finds all its WRs, and suddenly the Redskins are the "Aints".

The team was not that good in the early season (remember the first Giants game) nor as bad as the end. The defense remained pretty solid. The offense eventually had trouble running.

Simple: get better next year.

brad7686 wrote:

oneman56 wrote:

brad7686 wrote:I'm on. Give the man a chance, he could still have a winning record on a team nobody thought was going ANYWHERE.

I'm split right now, mostly because he seems to have lost confidence from the players. I don't want turnover but i'm still torn. Also, I'm not someone who though this team was going NOWHERE. We were a playoff team last year and drafted one area of what was believed to be our weakness. I expected more from this offense and thought the playoffs were very attainable.

As far as I'm concerned, anybody who thinks this team did anything but fall arse backward into the playoffs last year is fooling themselves. Add a brand new coach, system, and the fact that your draft picks are at a position that is slow to develop in the NFL, and its not an elite team. Elite teams beat teams that limp into the playoffs. This team could have made the playoffs with a few bounces one way or another, but they weren't going very far. If they beat the teams they should have, (Rams, Bengals) then they would have a good shot. But they aren't going to beat the elite teams because they lack personnel everywhere. One year is not enough to fire someone, especially a rookie coach. If they stink this bad next year, bring out the axe.

I'm so tired of people saying that we just backed into the playoffs. We were a playoff team last year. Who cares how we got there. The fact is we got there. Nobody around this time last year would have thought the Giants would make it to the Super Bowl but they got hot at the right time. Who care how they got there. When the Redskins won 3 super bowls do you talk about how they got there, or do you say hey we won 3 super bowls? Let me remind you that on the System the only thing changed was the passing. That's it. The problem with Zorn was that he didn't make adjustments, he didn't attack in his offense. We let garbage teams hang around and we don't put them away early and then we end up losing. Our defense does the job but once again no imagination on offense just the same old boring bland play calling. I had people that were fans from other teams that have watched us play tell me that Zorn was not the answer for us and that Zorn needed to go. I supported and defended Zorn all the way until the Ravens game. After that game I have seen enough. That was an embarrassment. This was a National televised game and to see this was a disgrace. I don't want us to have to go through another coaching change, however I know that as long as we have Zorn we will never do anything under him. There are no excuses the fact is Zorn is not the answer, and until he gets the axe we will continue to get the same results.

so who do you suggest bud?

jeremyroyce wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

oneman56 wrote:

brad7686 wrote:I'm on. Give the man a chance, he could still have a winning record on a team nobody thought was going ANYWHERE.

I'm split right now, mostly because he seems to have lost confidence from the players. I don't want turnover but i'm still torn. Also, I'm not someone who though this team was going NOWHERE. We were a playoff team last year and drafted one area of what was believed to be our weakness. I expected more from this offense and thought the playoffs were very attainable.

As far as I'm concerned, anybody who thinks this team did anything but fall arse backward into the playoffs last year is fooling themselves. Add a brand new coach, system, and the fact that your draft picks are at a position that is slow to develop in the NFL, and its not an elite team. Elite teams beat teams that limp into the playoffs. This team could have made the playoffs with a few bounces one way or another, but they weren't going very far. If they beat the teams they should have, (Rams, Bengals) then they would have a good shot. But they aren't going to beat the elite teams because they lack personnel everywhere. One year is not enough to fire someone, especially a rookie coach. If they stink this bad next year, bring out the axe.

I'm so tired of people saying that we just backed into the playoffs. We were a playoff team last year. Who cares how we got there. The fact is we got there. Nobody around this time last year would have thought the Giants would make it to the Super Bowl but they got hot at the right time. Who care how they got there. When the Redskins won 3 super bowls do you talk about how they got there, or do you say hey we won 3 super bowls? Let me remind you that on the System the only thing changed was the passing. That's it. The problem with Zorn was that he didn't make adjustments, he didn't attack in his offense. We let garbage teams hang around and we don't put them away early and then we end up losing. Our defense does the job but once again no imagination on offense just the same old boring bland play calling. I had people that were fans from other teams that have watched us play tell me that Zorn was not the answer for us and that Zorn needed to go. I supported and defended Zorn all the way until the Ravens game. After that game I have seen enough. That was an embarrassment. This was a National televised game and to see this was a disgrace. I don't want us to have to go through another coaching change, however I know that as long as we have Zorn we will never do anything under him. There are no excuses the fact is Zorn is not the answer, and until he gets the axe we will continue to get the same results.

PANIC, SHOW A COMPLETE INABILITY TO UNDERSTAND THE TEAM'S LIMINTATIONS, FIRE EVERYONE!

Fios wrote:

jeremyroyce wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

oneman56 wrote:

brad7686 wrote:I'm on. Give the man a chance, he could still have a winning record on a team nobody thought was going ANYWHERE.

I'm split right now, mostly because he seems to have lost confidence from the players. I don't want turnover but i'm still torn. Also, I'm not someone who though this team was going NOWHERE. We were a playoff team last year and drafted one area of what was believed to be our weakness. I expected more from this offense and thought the playoffs were very attainable.

As far as I'm concerned, anybody who thinks this team did anything but fall arse backward into the playoffs last year is fooling themselves. Add a brand new coach, system, and the fact that your draft picks are at a position that is slow to develop in the NFL, and its not an elite team. Elite teams beat teams that limp into the playoffs. This team could have made the playoffs with a few bounces one way or another, but they weren't going very far. If they beat the teams they should have, (Rams, Bengals) then they would have a good shot. But they aren't going to beat the elite teams because they lack personnel everywhere. One year is not enough to fire someone, especially a rookie coach. If they stink this bad next year, bring out the axe.

I'm so tired of people saying that we just backed into the playoffs. We were a playoff team last year. Who cares how we got there. The fact is we got there. Nobody around this time last year would have thought the Giants would make it to the Super Bowl but they got hot at the right time. Who care how they got there. When the Redskins won 3 super bowls do you talk about how they got there, or do you say hey we won 3 super bowls? Let me remind you that on the System the only thing changed was the passing. That's it. The problem with Zorn was that he didn't make adjustments, he didn't attack in his offense. We let garbage teams hang around and we don't put them away early and then we end up losing. Our defense does the job but once again no imagination on offense just the same old boring bland play calling. I had people that were fans from other teams that have watched us play tell me that Zorn was not the answer for us and that Zorn needed to go. I supported and defended Zorn all the way until the Ravens game. After that game I have seen enough. That was an embarrassment. This was a National televised game and to see this was a disgrace. I don't want us to have to go through another coaching change, however I know that as long as we have Zorn we will never do anything under him. There are no excuses the fact is Zorn is not the answer, and until he gets the axe we will continue to get the same results.

PANIC, SHOW A COMPLETE INABILITY TO UNDERSTAND THE TEAM'S LIMINTATIONS, FIRE EVERYONE!

Do you have anything else better to say then this? If you disagree with me then fine, but atleast tell me why you think I am wrong. What I said is the truth. Go back and watch the Redskins and Rams game. How about the Bengals game.

jeremyroyce wrote:How about the Bengals game.

How about sweeping Philthy and beating the Pukes in their house?

Repeat after me:

Balance in judgment.

Balance in judgment.

Balance in judgment.

...

I would find it hard to believe that even Cerrato and Snyder (as bad as they are) would not have Zorn in here for another year after what we have done this year.

We all knew it would take more than a year and we will surely see Zorn get another shot.

I just cannot believe anyone who really knows how things work could think that anyone else could have done as good a job of coaching this team with this FO as Zorn has. Certainly not any of the other coaches that were being considered including Cowher.

jeremyroyce wrote:I'm so tired of people saying that we just backed into the playoffs. We were a playoff team last year. Who cares how we got there. The fact is we got there. Nobody around this time last year would have thought the Giants would make it to the Super Bowl but they got hot at the right time. Who care how they got there.

What?

If you don't care how we got there, then maybe you should look at what we did when we got there. You site the Giants as an example. Well then, look at what the giants did, then compare that to what we did. Should answer your question right there.

I understand that maybe you're trying to say, "what you do there is more important than how you got there". But usually the two have something to do with each other. Players know what they are capable of and what their weaknesses are.

You also can't hire a rookie coach, install a completely new offensive system, suffer numerous injuries with little depth at most positions AND expect the team to make the playoffs AND fire the coach after one 8-8/9-7 season. That decision would be short-sighted and would cause us to have to start over AGAIN.

jeremyroyce wrote:Do you have anything else better to say then this? If you disagree with me then fine, but atleast tell me why you think I am wrong. What I said is the truth. Go back and watch the Redskins and Rams game. How about the Bengals game.

I'll be happy to tell you why you're wrong. It's flawed logic. Period.

Let me ask you this...

With all the criticism Dan Snyder has justifiably taken for the constant carousel and turn-over at the coaching position, if he did take your advice and fired Zorn, with potentially a winning record, or at the very least a .500 record... what coach, of any caliber, in their right mind, would take a job in DC? Are you kidding me? Fire a coach after ONE year with a .500 record or better and think another coach would risk his career by coming here???



How is that even a remotely logical thing to do? Start over with a new coach and a new offensive system? Just what JC and the entire offense needs to improve. Just put a shiny new sticker on it and it will all be better overnight, right?

To think the teams woes are solely attributed to the coach is a narrow-minded view with a complete lack of understanding regarding what the teams limitations are, as Fios pointed out to you. No coach, in any sport, deserves only one year. By the way, didn't you here all the continuity criticisms this organization has suffered for many years now? But let's do it again, right?

Why should we give Zorn a chance?

I never knew his job was in jeopardy. He does not need a chance he already has his job locked down for at least one more year.

I happen to like Zorn. Youthful exuberance, confidence, eager to succeed.
This is what a young Gibbs brought to the team. Also he is a former QB, tutored under Holmgren in a coaching tree that is one of the more legendary. The Walsh coaching family tree.

Heres to a couple more years of Hip Hip Hooray! Hip Hip Hooray! I want to see him get a good five years at least.

Yes...hip hip hooray indeed

Did anyone really believe Zorn would go anywhere after one year?

As spme of you guys have already said, Snyder and his cousin Vinny are not idiots. At least not in the strict meaning of the word. If they would fire Zorn, no one coach with credentials would want to come here.

Until there's a GM here, a real GM, I think we'll have discussions like this when one coach has a "normal" or bad year. There's no long term plan in place. How do you judge one's performance when there is no barometer to assess it with?

Yeah, yeah, I also recall Snyder said at the start of the season that he expected a SB from his team this year. That is rethoric. He had to say that, or the whole organization would capsize.

Zorn should be here some more time, definetly. And so should a real GM.

SkinsFreak wrote:

jeremyroyce wrote:Do you have anything else better to say then this? If you disagree with me then fine, but atleast tell me why you think I am wrong. What I said is the truth. Go back and watch the Redskins and Rams game. How about the Bengals game.

I'll be happy to tell you why you're wrong. It's flawed logic. Period.

Let me ask you this...

With all the criticism Dan Snyder has justifiably taken for the constant carousel and turn-over at the coaching position, if he did take your advice and fired Zorn, with potentially a winning record, or at the very least a .500 record... what coach, of any caliber, in their right mind, would take a job in DC? Are you kidding me? Fire a coach after ONE year with a .500 record or better and think another coach would risk his career by coming here???



How is that even a remotely logical thing to do? Start over with a new coach and a new offensive system? Just what JC and the entire offense needs to improve. Just put a shiny new sticker on it and it will all be better overnight, right?

To think the teams woes are solely attributed to the coach is a narrow-minded view with a complete lack of understanding regarding what the teams limitations are, as Fios pointed out to you. No coach, in any sport, deserves only one year. By the way, didn't you here all the continuity criticisms this organization has suffered for many years now? But let's do it again, right?

I hope that this clears the air. I understand that we have gone through coaches like crazy and there has been NO continunity. Yes, quite frankly I'm tired of seeing us go through all these coaches just as much as everyone else. However, this is why I think that Zorn is not the right answer. Sure we started at 6-2 but teams starting figuring out Zorn offense. Well, when they figured out his offense he stuck with the same thing. No changes. We didn't do a no-huddle to change the pace of the game, no imagination on the offense of side of the ball. and we have no killer instinct. We just play conservative and allow teams that we should put away early in the game hang around and beat us. No sence of urgency. No trick plays, this offense of play calling is boring. If I can remember correctly I believe that in one of our games Madden even himself said that we are going to have to open up our offense and get the ball down the field. Did we do that? No. Jim Zorn needs to make adjustments and he needs to make them in the game. Not after the game once we get a loss, but he needs to make adjustments in the game. How about halftime adjustments. Listen I am no professional football coach but I can guarantee you that I can come up with a better offense of gameplan then Jim Zorn.

jeremyroyce wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:

jeremyroyce wrote:Do you have anything else better to say then this? If you disagree with me then fine, but atleast tell me why you think I am wrong. What I said is the truth. Go back and watch the Redskins and Rams game. How about the Bengals game.

I'll be happy to tell you why you're wrong. It's flawed logic. Period.

Let me ask you this...

With all the criticism Dan Snyder has justifiably taken for the constant carousel and turn-over at the coaching position, if he did take your advice and fired Zorn, with potentially a winning record, or at the very least a .500 record... what coach, of any caliber, in their right mind, would take a job in DC? Are you kidding me? Fire a coach after ONE year with a .500 record or better and think another coach would risk his career by coming here???



How is that even a remotely logical thing to do? Start over with a new coach and a new offensive system? Just what JC and the entire offense needs to improve. Just put a shiny new sticker on it and it will all be better overnight, right?

To think the teams woes are solely attributed to the coach is a narrow-minded view with a complete lack of understanding regarding what the teams limitations are, as Fios pointed out to you. No coach, in any sport, deserves only one year. By the way, didn't you here all the continuity criticisms this organization has suffered for many years now? But let's do it again, right?

I hope that this clears the air. I understand that we have gone through coaches like crazy and there has been NO continunity. Yes, quite frankly I'm tired of seeing us go through all these coaches just as much as everyone else. However, this is why I think that Zorn is not the right answer. Sure we started at 6-2 but teams starting figuring out Zorn offense. Well, when they figured out his offense he stuck with the same thing. No changes. We didn't do a no-huddle to change the pace of the game, no imagination on the offense of side of the ball. and we have no killer instinct. We just play conservative and allow teams that we should put away early in the game hang around and beat us. No sence of urgency. No trick plays, this offense of play calling is boring. If I can remember correctly I believe that in one of our games Madden even himself said that we are going to have to open up our offense and get the ball down the field. Did we do that? No. Jim Zorn needs to make adjustments and he needs to make them in the game. Not after the game once we get a loss, but he needs to make adjustments in the game. How about halftime adjustments. Listen I am no professional football coach but I can guarantee you that I can come up with a better offense of gameplan then Jim Zorn.

I'm sorry but where in this is an answer to SkinsFreak's question? - this is your opinion but there is nothing here of any substance. This is nothing but the ramblings of a frustrated Redskins fan.

Do you really think Zorn should be replaced because you and a few other fans do not like how he coached - Madden, for crying out loud, is a coach from a different era and he has absolutely no idea of how to coach an NFL team in todays' game.

Where in all of this is anything of substance to support the fact that Snyder should consider this coaching change. He is after all the owner and he will not be changing coaches based on a over the hill coach like Madden or some stupid NFL fans who think they could do better than the guy Snyder selected.

jeremyroyce said:

I am no professional football coach

True.

I don't think Dannyboy has the grapes to fire another coach for the reasons stated earlier, what coach would want to take the job? In fact that's how we ended up with Zorn. How many of us on this board even considered the QB coach in Seattle to be the head coach of this team when the search was on for a new HC? The ONLY guy trying to knock down the door for this job was Fassel and he told Dannyboy that Zorn would make a good OC.

IMHO even if Zorn does last another year, there still won't be many takers of consequence who would want to come here.

Consider this, Dannyboy got rid of Marty when he WON 8 of the last 11 games of the season. Based on that logic, Zorn, who has a chance to LOSE 7 of the last 11 games, should be gone based on Dannyboy logic.

My question is, are the HC, Vice President of Football Operations and the Owner all on the same page? Why don't we know who has the final say on personnel decisions? Who benefits most from this plausible deniability? The front office has to be set straight before we ever see a consistent winner here in DC.

If we win in SF, Zorn will be the ONLY HC with a winning record under Dannyboy. When I think about that, it really makes my head spin considering Zorn was 6th or 7th choice at best.

If any of us wanted to build up the redfskins, would we fire the first head coach hired after Joe Gibbs? "Even" if the tean "only" went 8 - 8?