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Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:15 pm
by Chris Luva Luva
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:25 pm
by DEHog
Where's the Joe (we fought our guts outs) Gibbs presser when you need it!!
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:42 pm
by Chris Luva Luva
DEHog wrote:Where's the Joe (we fought our guts outs) Gibbs presser when you need it!!
Keep that under wraps, this drama is more entertaining than the redskins offense.
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:47 pm
by CanesSkins26
Right on Chris. And let's not forget that it was Zorn that told the media that Jansen had lost his starting spot before even telling the player. Imo Zorn is in way over his head and things are starting to collapse all around him.
ey almost went off the other week and I'm glad that CP spoke his mind and said what needed to be said. Zorn has blamed a lot of players for things but I've yet to hear him be critical of the things that he himself has done wrong. If he is going to throw his players under the bus then he needs to be accountable for his own mistakes as well. After what happened today I think that that DC Examiner article about him being on the hotseat is on point.
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:49 pm
by cleg
Zorn seems like he just lacks knowing when to shut up. Portis and a lot of the Miami guys statements are incinderary and they take everything as a lack of respect. I don't agree with Zorn, don't know if I like him as a coach but Portis could tear the team apart if he wanted. Maybe there is some value for him as this team implodes and rebuilds (again).
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:05 pm
by Fios
CanesSkins26 wrote:Right on Chris. And let's not forget that it was Zorn that told the media that Jansen had lost his starting spot before even telling the player. Imo Zorn is in way over his head and things are starting to collapse all around him.
ey almost went off the other week and I'm glad that CP spoke his mind and said what needed to be said. Zorn has blamed a lot of players for things but I've yet to hear him be critical of the things that he himself has done wrong. If he is going to throw his players under the bus then he needs to be accountable for his own mistakes as well. After what happened today I think that that DC Examiner article about him being on the hotseat is on point.
I've heard Zorn take responsibility for mistakes many, many times. I don't think he's handled this as well as he could have or should have but I have heard him say "that's my fault" and "that's on me."
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:34 pm
by Gibbs4Life
Portis or Zorn... I'll take Portis
First of all as John Madden pointed out the only tangible thing JZ has contributed toward on the field success has been the passing game, and by the way it's failing.
There are many reasons to be given for why the offense is failing but the most logical is the offensive line is being confused and physically beaten. Seeing Geisenger go in was like a comedy, laughable. Why do we even have a guy like that on the team? But I digress...
The fact that our O-Line is broken is something only the Head Coach could during his pre-season evaluation could have anticipated. JZ had a hint when he benched Jansen, but he did not fully understand just how pathetic this line would become late in the season.
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:43 pm
by Redskin in Canada
Fios wrote:sigh ... I can't believe I am saying this but I really wish Snyder would sell this team, I'm starting to believe it's just never going to work with him here. I know that's largely irrelevant to what's going on here but ... ugh.
DEHog wrote:Welcome to the dark side!!
It is the other way around !!!
Welcome out of the Dark Side and into the Force.
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:51 pm
by Redskin in Canada
Hey people, just a question:
Is there a remote chance that deep inside his head, Zorn wanted Portis healthy for the next few games ???
The OL was not openning any holes and no team has run for over 100 yards against the Buzzards like for a century. So, what if he sat him without acknowledging that we were going NOWHERE with the running game?
I am all for that by the way. Zorn andn Clinton will make up.
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:04 pm
by SkinsFreak
KazooSkinsFan wrote:Sir_Monk wrote:BurgundyandGoldfaith wrote:Zorn has to control the team, bottom line IMO. All Pro or not, CP doesn't run the team and if he complains and gets what he wants, that becomes the new example of how to act as a Redskin
He never did this under Gibbs.
Umm...actually he did. You've already forgotten when he got injured in pre-season and criticized Gibbs for playing him?
Exactly. And Gibbs
also sat Portis for NOT practicing. Most coaches sit players when they don't practice, this isn't unique to Portis, Zorn or the Skins.
Portis has a right to be frustrated for the offenses struggles. But Zorn also has the right to sit a player that doesn't practice. And if you ask anyone around the league, players should not be airing their laundry out in public. What Zorn said was right; Portis hadn't practiced for several weeks because he's been hurt. Therefore, Betts had a better handle on this weeks game plan because he
did practice. That ain't too complicated. And besides, just about ALL of you said Portis needed a break anyway, because he was being over-worked... remember???
Some of you just kill me... really. Talk about blowing something waaaay out of proportion. But I guess some of you just have to have something to complain about, so I guess Portis
did provided you with some entertainment.
How many times has Portis done this? At least once a year? At the beginning of the year, he was criticizing the o-line publicly. This is nothing new, and many of you have taken his comments way out of context.
Matt Terl wrote:As I was driving back to Redskins Park from Antwaan Randle El’s charity event today, I was listening to Clinton Portis’s appearance on the John Thompson Show on ESPN980. Portis was clearly frustrated — with the team’s losing, with being benched (or “benched,” depending on who you ask), with his head coach — and he wasn’t hiding it.
I was surprised at his candor, but — as the show progressed — fairly impressed with what I perceived at the time as his restraint in not completely unleashing those frustrations. When I got back to the Park, I was immediately made aware that my interpretation of the broadcast was emphatically NOT that of the general public.
“Did you see the twenty page thread on ExtremeSkins?!?!?!” someone asked. “Portis just KILLED Zorn on the radio,” someone else said.
Dan Steinberg over at the DC Sports Bog (who has a fairly lengthy transcript posted) went with “Portis Smashes Zorn”, while Ryan O’Halloran at Redskins 360 kept it restrained with “Portis Unplugged”.
I still don’t buy it. Take the much-repeated implication that Portis said that he should go on IR: he was clearly, CLEARLY being sarcastic, and Coach Thompson calls him on it immediately. That was the tone I caught through most of what he said, and it’s a tone that Portis uses a lot.
More to the point, I would both hope and expect that Portis would be upset at not being put in the game, something Zorn addressed in HIS response later, also on ESPN980.
Zorn:Well, anytime you don’t go in, that’s the way you feel. And he is a big part of our offense, and he’s sitting on the bench, he’s gotta feel like he’s benched. I don’t blame him for that.
Andy Pollin: Do you feel like you’re on the same page as him right now?
Zorn:Well, when you have a player who wants to play — he’s an every-down back; that’s the way he sees himself, and that’s the way we see him — he needs to be on the field. I felt the same way when I played: if I wasn’t on the field, I didn’t think there was a chance.
That’s when the hosts mentioned the previous interview, that Portis felt like he didn’t have open lines of communication, and that he should just be put on IR if he wasn’t being used. So they asked Zorn what he thought of that.
Zorn:That we put him on injured reserve? No, I think he’s gotten himself healthy, I think he felt a lot better after this game, and I’m looking forward to having him out there on every snap practicing getting ready for the Cincinnati Bengals so we can utilize him as our every down back.
Steve Czaban: Is he healthy enough to practice this week?
Zorn: Yeah.
Steve Czaban:So he will practice?
Zorn: Absolutely. From what I understand from our trainers, his knee is fine, his neck is no longer stiff, and from what I understand, he’ll be ready to go.
And then they asked how much it had hurt him not practicing.
Zorn:That’s hard to say, because the first couple of weeks when he didn’t practice, I mean, he gained 145 yards, and the second week he gained 123 yards, but I think as the time went on, it wasn’t that we weren’t getting the running ability.
It was just, he was doing great things of blocking, and– his effort was high. I mean, he would tell you this, and I agree with him wholeheartedly: when he is playing the game, he’s giving you his best effort. And I’ve said this over and over: he’s very wicked on the football field. He’s what you want.
But what I wanted on the field on Sunday — and he had been out, I mean, each week I felt like in certain parts of the game, he was getting out on routes, but it wasn’t exact and quick, and I thought, “Okay, here’s an opportunity for us to get Ladell in,” who has practiced and he knows it just because he’s rehearsed it and rehearsed it.
I think he’s a confident player and he would believe he could do it without reps; I just made the decision not to give him that chance.
On the whole, the Portis thing was less than optimal at this point, yes. Obviously, things are better when your team’s star running back is NOT questioning the lines of communication with the head coach.
But I stand by my initial impression while I listened live: it was a frustrated guy blowing off some steam, and far from the end of the world. Besides, the last time Clinton Portis got involved in a radio fracas, he followed it not long after with some of the best running of his recent career. If that happens again, the team will be actively encouraging him to call in and insult people.
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:08 pm
by SkinsFreak
Redskin in Canada wrote:Hey people, just a question:
Is there a remote chance that deep inside his head, Zorn wanted Portis healthy for the next few games ???
The OL was not openning any holes and no team has run for over 100 yards against the Buzzards like for a century. So, what if he sat him without acknowledging that we were going NOWHERE with the running game?
I am all for that by the way. Zorn andn Clinton will make up.
Wow... thinking outside the box, something rarely seen around here. Thank you, well said and I agree.
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:15 pm
by Californiaskin
dude this is just the same old crap.....media hyping up stuff. CP spouts sometimes (remember the "dog fight" conversatition) CP is frustrated but deep inside he loves to ball and he'll be ready to run against the bengals.....tough sledding wo samuals though
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:38 pm
by Fios
Redskin in Canada wrote:Fios wrote:sigh ... I can't believe I am saying this but I really wish Snyder would sell this team, I'm starting to believe it's just never going to work with him here. I know that's largely irrelevant to what's going on here but ... ugh.
DEHog wrote:Welcome to the dark side!!
It is the other way around !!!
Welcome out of the Dark Side and into the Force.
I
will miss shooting lightning from my fingers
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:46 pm
by welch
- I think Zorn has spoken too much, especially about his players
- It was a bad sign, not a good one, when the players talked about how much fun it was to have a coach who let them express themselves
- No, we saw the finest living head coach. We had him here for another four years. He took a sad collection of players and made them a team. So it was.
- However, we have Jim Zorn now. We have to hope that he will learn, and cheer him as he does.
- Portis will settle down and play again for Zorn. I agree with RiC. They are both professionals.
- The future? We can only hope the Redskins draft linemen. As we saw with Gibbs, the OL and DL are the engine of the team.
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:56 pm
by riggofan
If you've played a competitive team sport in your life, I bet you've argued with your teammates and complained about your coach.
If you've played a team sport in your life and got your butt handed to you in a game, I can almost guarantee you've said some things out of frustration.
This doesn't look good. But I think pro athletes and coaches understand this. You talk it out, maybe apologize if you have to, and you work it out by winning.
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:28 pm
by Mursilis
Redskin in Canada wrote:Hey people, just a question:
Is there a remote chance that deep inside his head, Zorn wanted Portis healthy for the next few games ???
The OL was not openning any holes and no team has run for over 100 yards against the Buzzards like for a century. So, what if he sat him without acknowledging that we were going NOWHERE with the running game?
I am all for that by the way. Zorn andn Clinton will make up.
That's what I was thinking during the game. It just reeked of a blowout (down 14 less than 10 minutes into it?!?), so maybe Zorn decided to spare CP the punishment.
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:56 pm
by DEHog
Mursilis wrote:Redskin in Canada wrote:Hey people, just a question:
Is there a remote chance that deep inside his head, Zorn wanted Portis healthy for the next few games ???
The OL was not openning any holes and no team has run for over 100 yards against the Buzzards like for a century. So, what if he sat him without acknowledging that we were going NOWHERE with the running game?
I am all for that by the way. Zorn andn Clinton will make up.
That's what I was thinking during the game. It just reeked of a blowout (down 14 less than 10 minutes into it?!?), so maybe Zorn decided to spare CP the punishment.
I was thinking the same thing...but why wouldn't Zorn just say that?? It was no big secret that CP is banged up. Like I said...I coach and I like my players to be at practice...I think this had to do with CP practicing.
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:57 pm
by chiefhog44
Gibbs4Life wrote:chiefhog44 wrote:thedancingbear wrote:chiefhog44 wrote:Anyone notice that ever since Zorn blew up at Portis on the sideline for not telling him that he was hurt, our team has not been playing for him anymore? I want to say that was the game against the Eagles.
Not sure about this, but wasn't that the Lions game?
Might have been the lions. Just remember this and started to wonder what the players think of a coach that constantly berates them. Especially one that does so in public.
The Zorn yelling at Portis thing is a reach, and it was in Detroit, and we won that game. That's just trying to start something, the real answer is in the physicality of our offensive line, at this point in the season we can have our butts kicked by a 4 man rush, I'm sorry if you can get to the QB with 4 guys consistantly, it's over.
Do you still think I'm trying to start something. I think I hit it right on the head a couple weeks ago. Zorn does a real good job of berating his players, but never takes the blame for anything. NEVER DO THAT...NEVER. That's Gibbs 101.
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:03 am
by chiefhog44
Mursilis wrote:Redskin in Canada wrote:Hey people, just a question:
Is there a remote chance that deep inside his head, Zorn wanted Portis healthy for the next few games ???
The OL was not openning any holes and no team has run for over 100 yards against the Buzzards like for a century. So, what if he sat him without acknowledging that we were going NOWHERE with the running game?
I am all for that by the way. Zorn andn Clinton will make up.
That's what I was thinking during the game. It just reeked of a blowout (down 14 less than 10 minutes into it?!?), so maybe Zorn decided to spare CP the punishment.
I don't buy that. If that was the case, why go on TV and tell the media that CP missed blocking assignments. You can not humiliate players to the media and expect to lead a team. I've had this feeling about Zorn since the beginning and began seeing signs of it during the Lions game when he flared up at CP on the sideline. He self admits that he tells players exactly the way it is. He does not sugar coat anything. That's great when you're doing it behind close doors, but you can't say that shi& to the media. As a coach, you have to take the blame for everything. That's why Gibbs was a hall of famer, and this guy will not last if he keeps it up. Trust me on this one.
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:16 am
by CanesSkins26
chiefhog44 wrote:Mursilis wrote:Redskin in Canada wrote:Hey people, just a question:
Is there a remote chance that deep inside his head, Zorn wanted Portis healthy for the next few games ???
The OL was not openning any holes and no team has run for over 100 yards against the Buzzards like for a century. So, what if he sat him without acknowledging that we were going NOWHERE with the running game?
I am all for that by the way. Zorn andn Clinton will make up.
That's what I was thinking during the game. It just reeked of a blowout (down 14 less than 10 minutes into it?!?), so maybe Zorn decided to spare CP the punishment.
I don't buy that. If that was the case, why go on TV and tell the media that CP missed blocking assignments. You can not humiliate players to the media and expect to lead a team. I've had this feeling about Zorn since the beginning and began seeing signs of it during the Lions game when he flared up at CP on the sideline. He self admits that he tells players exactly the way it is. He does not sugar coat anything. That's great when you're doing it behind close doors, but you can't say that shi& to the media. As a coach, you have to take the blame for everything. That's why Gibbs was a hall of famer, and this guy will not last if he keeps it up. Trust me on this one.
Excellent point. Nothing good comes from calling out your players in public. It simply doesn't work and it appears that Zorn has yet to learn that. He's shown so far that he doesn't know how to handle the media (announcing the Jansen suspension before telling him, embarrassing Davis publicly, etc.). The CP criticism was stupid and in the end he just made himself look clueless. You don't call out a guy like CP that has taken a beating all season and not said a thing. Calling out CP for his pass blocking but not benching Sellers with the way that he was blocking? Give me a break.
Also, there are lots of players that miss practice time due to injuries. Moss, Samuels, Kendall, Fletcher, Smoot, Springs, etc. have all missed practice and played in games. Landry missed almost the entire preseason yet wasn't benched because he didn't practice. All that Zorn is doing is creating more problems for himself. It's also pretty telling that nobody from the front office has publicly voiced support for Zorn after this.
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:17 am
by chiefhog44
BurgundyandGoldfaith wrote:I haven't seen the tape CP says Zorn is lying about but Zorn hasn't said anything outrageous. He said Ladell had practice time and the hot hand. I was watching the game, that was what I saw. Portis handed Ed Reed a TD(granted he never fumbles) but he doesn't seem to want to take any responsibility for the loss, he just wants to pin it on Zorn for holding him out. What were Betts' stats? I thought they were good. Am I losing it or didn't this issue come up between the two earlier this season, about practicing?
I agree but he's clearly tired of Clinton not practicing.
http://redskins.com/gen/index.jsp It's under Coach Zorn 12-8 at minute 12:40
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:27 am
by The Hogster
I completely side with Clinton here. Zorn has been making "rookie" mistakes as a coach all year. For one, I always got the feel that he individually singles out players to the media when they screw up. When the team is winning, it comes across as accountability. When the team is losing, it comes across as scapegoating.
Now that we're losing, Zorn's habit of talking about individual players is coming back to bite him.
If you listen to that interview (I listened live here in DC) and watch the video of Moss on the skins site, he even made a comment that the offense was "something you don't want to be a part of".
Sound like Zorn's style is losing the players. And, thats the main goal of the head coach, to keep the team together, and playing for a common goal. That, to me is done when you keep this stuff behind closed doors. Sounds like Zorn hadn't even talked to Clinton before talking to the media about why he wasn't playing. If you want to call out the players, call e'm out, but do it to the team, not the press.
One thing Gibbs always said, and it was annoying, was "we're all in it together". It was a drag to hear, but I'm sure the players knew he had their back, and that he'd come to them with his problems. The media didn't get a soundbite, and we didn't get a story, but all in all, his lame, bland press conferences were for the best. And, I'm sure the accountability came in the locker room.
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:32 am
by RayNAustin
From the start, I liked Zorn's honest approach to the media...very forthcoming when compared to Joe Gibbs who had the ability to talk for 10 minutes and not say a thing. However, the only time it could ever be appropriate for a coach to call out a player is if that player is just way out of line or not putting forth effort. And nobody can legitimately question CP's effort.
This business about him not practicing is total nonsense. Zorn and the entire offense have ridden on Portis's back all year like a pack mule, and in spite of all the injuries, he's been out there week after week, often the only consistently effective element of an otherwise pathetic offense. And that is compounded by the fact that EVERYONE comes in with the game plan to stop Portis first.
So benching your most consistent and best weapon like he did is not very smart...but to do it and disrespect the guy at the same time is inexcusable. If Zorn felt that Betts was the better option (a questionable decision by itself) then he could have just told Portis, hey, sit and rest...I don't want you to get nicked up out there any more, let's let Ladell take some load off you. No, this was about posturing and being the boss and punishing a player for some perceived wrong.
Look, RBs take more punishment during the year than any other position on the field, and it's common sense to rest them as much as you can when they're fighting nagging injuries. Portis production has been great in spite of the otherwise dysfunctional offense, and he has a right to be disgusted and pissed for being called out....especially with regard to blocking...something Portis obviously takes great pride in and does better than most any back in the league.
And CPs comments are a huge insight into what is happening to this offense. He said he's told to pass block, but then blamed for not being in position for an outlet pass. He's told to be out for a pass and then blamed for not pass blocking. We see a lot of confusion with blocking assignments, with Rabach asked to watch over Campbell and correct any protection calls he misses, and it just looks like they're lost.....and that's a coaching issue any way you slice it.
Zorn is a rookie, and he may wind up being a great HC one day. But not today. He's never even been an OC, much less a HC, so what's to say his untested, unproven offensive system is sound, especially when it seems to be a patchwork of the old running offense and his new passing game? It looks to me like the running game is working, and it's Zorn's new passing game which includes pass protection scheme that is laying the egg out there.
So I think there are too many issues to just say the o-line sucks. And as for Campbell.....I'm starting to think he just doesn't have a chance out there. Maybe, he never did. He had plenty of time to learn Saunders offense but still struggled with it's complexity. Then we bring in Zorn with a system that highlights Campbell's weaknesses, while at the same time adding additional responsibilities like having to call protections. Not a good recipe.
Campbell was ill suited for Zorn's quick read quick decision passing game to start with. And as Zorn continued to add to the playbook, Campbell is once again overwhelmed and confused, and it's all compounded by the pass protection confusion on the o-line (and now back field blocking assignments it would seem).
And as far as I'm concerned, Zorn should have surgery....sow his mouth closed if he dares mention a breakdown on defense or question the running back since that is all this team has had from day one.
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:48 am
by Skinsfan55
Clinton Portis needs to shut the hell up and play football.
Jim Zorn is the head coach and if he thinks Betts gives us a better shot at winning given the circumstances than it's his decision and Portis should shut his mouth.
It was just an absolutely stupid move to go on radio with this dirty laundry and he ought to be ashamed.
Be a man, don't just cry like a baby when things don't go your way.
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:04 am
by VetSkinsFan
Mursilis wrote:Redskin in Canada wrote:Hey people, just a question:
Is there a remote chance that deep inside his head, Zorn wanted Portis healthy for the next few games ???
The OL was not openning any holes and no team has run for over 100 yards against the Buzzards like for a century. So, what if he sat him without acknowledging that we were going NOWHERE with the running game?
I am all for that by the way. Zorn andn Clinton will make up.
That's what I was thinking during the game. It just reeked of a blowout (down 14 less than 10 minutes into it?!?), so maybe Zorn decided to spare CP the punishment.
The Eagles did it to us this year as well, and we won that game.