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It's really sad to see how quickly Jansen has aged. He let Renaldo Wynn beat him for a sack today. Wynn! Did he even have a sack as a Redskin?

PulpExposure wrote:It's really sad to see how quickly Jansen has aged. He let Renaldo Wynn beat him for a sack today. Wynn! Did he even have a sack as a Redskin?

True.

I wil be in need of some money to purchase gifts over the 2009 Christmas season. So, does anybody wish to place a bet that Jon Jansen is not witth us next season?

I say he is let go due to his high cost against the Cap and the tremendous drop in his game. Any takers?

crazyhorse1 wrote:There was no way a dinged Portis was going to run against the Giants today--not with the huge gap in talent between our anemic OL and their terrific DL. What happened was predictable. It was also clear we weren't going to succeed passing with Campbell holding onto the ball too long, our miserable line blocking, and ARE and Thrash as WR's.

I took shots for saying this before the game but I'll say it again now: We should have had Portis on the bench recovering for next week and used Collins to throw to Moss, ey, Kelly, Thomas, Sellers, and Betts on a whole batch of tricky stuff. Zorn should have stepped up. Misdirection was the only direction, today.

Portis looks further damaged to me. If so, goodbye playoffs.

PLAYOFFS???? PLAYOFFS?!? PLAYOFFS???? (as said by Jim Mora)

Garrrrrr!!!!!!

The Dancing Bear wrote:

Sir_Monk wrote:

Hands down the 3 most annoying plays of this game were:

to me it was anytime the Giants faced 3rd down....seemed like they made it all day.

You are singing my song! I was saying this all day. To me, 3rd down is THE most important down in football. On defense, it sets the tone, and on offense it can be a moral breaker for the opposing defense.

3rd down was the defining example of both teams today. The Giants showed how it's done by a SB champ on both sides of the ball, the Skins showed how it's done by a pretender on both sides of the ball.

We never should have let Gus Frerotte go

mastdark81 wrote:I think just like the first game we were outcoached again on both sides of the ball. Blache came in thinking they would run 1000 times and they came out passing.

We did not do anything new on offense other then the reverse...and guess what it was a touchdown. Yes a gadget play but if it worked we need more, you gotta do what you can do to score and win games.

JCam is not reading the defense and picking the right targets at the right time and our receivers are not getting much separation because the opposing teams know what routes we are going to run.

I thought our oline didn't do a bad job today and protected decent enough but sometimes Campbell has to roll out to give himself more time and room to pass the ball.

I agree, this is the second game where it was painfully obvious that our coaching staff was outcoached. Blatche kept dialing up blitzes to put pressure on Manning and it would backfire because we can't cover man to man. A bunch of no name receivers were making catch after catch especially on third downs. It was also OBVIOUS that the Giants defense kept our offense guessing as to which guys were coming and which ones were in coverage. We just didn't look comfortable.

You can't run trick or gadget plays the whole game, it's one of those things you can run once maybe twice but using it as a base offense isn't going to work.

The fact JC is holding on to the ball so long means the exact opposite of what you think, he IS reading the defense, I'm not sure why he has a hard time throwing the ball to a receiver downfield who is being covered but doesn't seem to mind throwing it into coverage on a screen that wasn't going to work. The other part to that is, are the receivers running the correct routes? Based on comments made earlier by Zorny about Dum Dum Thomas the answer is....no, they aren't always where they are supposed to be. But JC holds on to the ball way to long and our offensive line can't pass block very well, those two things don't add up to success.

I'm not sure how you're judging the offensive line but I wouldn't say they did a very good job today. Sometimes it looks like Jansen is on rollerskates getting pushed into the backfield. The 4th and 1 play where Portis got stopped short, Jansen TOTALLY missed a block on the guy who made the play. Other O-Linemen made mistakes as well especially in pass protection.

Fios wrote:Doc Walker (a man whose opinion I increasingly admire) said a big chunk of this game came down to two drops (Randle-E -- no shocker there -- and Kelly) and I agree. It's not THE reason for anything but man did they ever come at bad times.

For all those asking to see Kelly more, where are you now? Big play pass hit him in the chest...

chiefhog44 wrote:

Fios wrote:Doc Walker (a man whose opinion I increasingly admire) said a big chunk of this game came down to two drops (Randle-E -- no shocker there -- and Kelly) and I agree. It's not THE reason for anything but man did they ever come at bad times.

For all those asking to see Kelly more, where are you now? Big play pass hit him in the chest...

MORE KELLY!

Redskin in Canada wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:It's really sad to see how quickly Jansen has aged. He let Renaldo Wynn beat him for a sack today. Wynn! Did he even have a sack as a Redskin?

True.

I wil be in need of some money to purchase gifts over the 2009 Christmas season. So, does anybody wish to place a bet that Jon Jansen is not witth us next season?

I say he is let go due to his high cost against the Cap and the tremendous drop in his game. Any takers?

He is gassed out. Put the young buck Heyer in there....

brad7686 wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:I'm not sure anyone was watching the same game as me....or the same last few games as me for that matter.

You cannot blame the defense for allowing 23 points to a team that is averaging 30 points per game all year, when your offense is as pathetic as ours. 3 and out, 3 and out, 6 and out, 5 and out, 4 and out, 3 and out, and so forth. So why not direct the criticism where it belongs, because even if the defense held the Giants to 8 points, we still would have lost.

We're right back to square one, the same place we've been time and again. Be it Al Saunders or Jim Zorn's offense, Jason Campbell is not a play maker. Sure, blame the game on three dropped passes, or not being able to sack Manning 5 times, but YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BEAT GOOD TEAMS WITH 7 POINTS.

Throwing short to ARE when he has double coverage beat deep.....throwing into triple coverage to CC (there has got to be someone open when your freaking TE has three defenders hanging on him ) to the dirt balls on a simple slant, to throwing short 4 yarders on 3rd and 12, this clown HAS GOT TO GO. He is T. Jackson (benched) K. Boller (benched) V. Young (benched). He is the worst QB of the division of Manning, Romo, McNabb, and the Redskins are going to continue to bring up the rear offensively as long as this incompetence at QB continues.

It's not good enough to have flashes. It's not acceptable to throw 3 TD passes in 7 games.

Campbell is a loser, and so is the Redskin offense with this clown driving the bus.

It was more like 8 dropped passes. Got us behind. Campbell did try to force some throws in the second half when they were already in nickel because they knew we could not run on them. The throw to Randle El was the big problem because he was not really open at all anyway. There was no point in throwing that one. Our receivers need to go to the Heinz Ward school of pass catching. Obviously, none of it rubbed off on El. And also, why does Zorn run 9 yard patterns on 3rd and 10? Why can't they just run another yard?

There are routes called control routes that are supposed to occupy defenders, you're not really supposed to throw the ball to them, but it seems like JC has an extra long delivery and by the time he's ready to relaese the ball, he HAS to throw it short to the control route and hope that the receiver can break a tackle and get a first down. I think I would rather have him launch it downfield and have chance at a DPI call or a receiver making a play on the ball.

YEs the redskins offense sucks. I don't understand these short underneath throws on 3rd and long. At least take a chance downfield if you're going to lose anyway why not go down swinging?

cleg wrote:We never should have let Gus Frerotte go

Here are more:
B. Lloyd doing well
Harris in SanFran
Gus F.
R. Wynn
A. Pierce

Everyone we let go.....COMES BACK AND KILLS US....it seems.

tribeofjudah wrote:I'm once again losing faith in JC, and Zorn too, for that matter....come on man!

How can you get on Zorn. I'd love to pull a thread from before the season and look at how many people were on here looking at a 5-11 season and saying to give Zorn a few years to figure it out. Losing faith in JC, I can understand somewhat. You're frustrated, but it's not Zorn's fault that we miss a field goal, or that Jansen misses blocks EVERY game for sacks (or the 4 and 1 play where he didn't even pick anyone up). Give me a break man. He has this team at 7-5 and in position to make the playoffs in his first year. Don't ride him out of here like everyone else please.

chiefhog44 wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:I'm once again losing faith in JC, and Zorn too, for that matter....come on man!

How can you get on Zorn. I'd love to pull a thread from before the season and look at how many people were on here looking at a 5-11 season and saying to give Zorn a few years to figure it out. Losing faith in JC, I can understand somewhat. You're frustrated, but it's not Zorn's fault that we miss a field goal, or that Jansen misses blocks EVERY game for sacks (or the 4 and 1 play where he didn't even pick anyone up). Give me a break man. He has this team at 7-5 and in position to make the playoffs in his first year. Don't ride him out of here like everyone else please.

Zorn simply need to be LESS PREDICTABLE. We suck cuz defenses know all our plays. Dig deeper man, deeper into the playbook or something...

tribeofjudah wrote:

cleg wrote:We never should have let Gus Frerotte go

Here are more:
B. Lloyd doing well
Harris in SanFran
Gus F.
R. Wynn
A. Pierce

Everyone we let go.....COMES BACK AND KILLS US....it seems.

For the most part, fans in this city don't give anyone a chance to succeed. They ride them out of here. For the exception of Pierce (which was an ego thing with G. Williams) everyone on your list was blacklisted by the fans. And guess what, by your earlier posts, it seems as if you're trying to ride Zorn out of here as well. And you don't even get it that negative comments by you about the players/coaching is half the problem.

We never should have let Gus Frerotte go Smile

It all went down hill when we dumped Carey Conklin.

We have to make a decision on Campbell with his contract up this year. 7-5 is not a bad record but it's not a good record either, I'm a Colt Brennan believer but I don't blame Jason for not scoring, its his cast, specifically oline

Ah, predictability!

Meaning:

- In January, Zorn was a junk-pile, but Gibbs was too harsh and unimaginative so people shouted, "good riddance". However, "everyone" knew that Campbell couldn't play QB in the "west coast" offense

- Next, Zorn was innovative, friendly, and finally unleashing the offense


- Next, Zorn had made Jason Campbell the best Redskin QB since Sonny, proving that Gibbs had only retarded Campbell's development.

- Next Zorn was too predictable and Campbell is worse than Patrick Ramsey

OK. True enough, this is a Redskin fan board. Still, this is the same Zorn, the same Campbell, and all the rest.

This team is neither junk, nor ready for the Super Bowl. The OL is OK, but not the best. The two big WR's might turnout to be fine, but Moss and ARE are both small guys, and Thrash is slowing down.

The DL is not top of the list, and the LBs are not all-stars.

In all, this team does OK, a little bit above average, but they are not the '91 team.

They are improving. That's what they've done each year since Gibbs took over the dysfunctional rust-pile that Spurrier cultivated.

They have a chance to make the playoffs, and they can improve over the off-season.

What else is there to say?

Redskin in Canada wrote:

cleg wrote:One other thing and I hate to admit it but Eli is damn good.

Eli has an OL. Jason does not.

We knew we needed help on offense at the OL and on defense inside at the DT positions. They should have brought in free agents at those positions. EVERYBODY except the Front Office agreed with this asessment.

It is VERY difficult to win games when they are lost in the trenches. Redskin football has ALWAYS been about dominating in the trenches on offesne and on defense. We are losing the battles in the trenches on both sides of the ball.

Hey guys, REMEMBER, we had NO EXPECTATIONS of success for this season. PLEASE do not start asking for the head of Zorn. He will be a GREAT coach. Consider the fact that Zorn has to win in spite of the collective "efforts" of the "Front Office".

READ my signature but remember Redskins fans are fans in good and bad times.

RIC, I have to whole heartedly agree with you. You are right on point with the assessment of our current situation. You can have all-pro skill players on offense, but they are not going to be successful if you don't have an offensive line to run and pass block. This has to sit squarely on the shoulders of the front office.


I think Zorny has done a good job, but unless you win consistently in this league you won't last long, especially with an owner who isn't afraid to get rid of head coaches. I'm not calling for his head, I'm just saying if he doesn't produce, Dannyboy won't hesitate to install head coach #6

What the heck is with the Necklace? Zman loses edge points for that one

http://www.redskins.com/gen/index.jsp

Coming home from the game, was listening to the Post-game report. They had Chris ey on who sounded completely frustrated to the point he was about to sell some people out as to what the problem was, but wisely stopped.

John Riggins, following the encounter, stated..."wow, we almost turned ey into Jimmy the Squealer" and added that he thinks that ey was talking about Campbell not waiting for plays to progress, going straight for the checkdowns and missing a lot of wide out receivers.

One other point. Can we officially call the Jason Taylor experiment over? Please? The Skins defense is hurt by him jumping around, not helped. JT made no plays today (that counted) except for getting a donkey ride down the center of the field by Brandon Jacobs on a couple of occasions. The guy gets nowhere near the quarterback.

chiefhog44 wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:I'm once again losing faith in JC, and Zorn too, for that matter....come on man!

How can you get on Zorn. I'd love to pull a thread from before the season and look at how many people were on here looking at a 5-11 season and saying to give Zorn a few years to figure it out. Losing faith in JC, I can understand somewhat. You're frustrated, but it's not Zorn's fault that we miss a field goal, or that Jansen misses blocks EVERY game for sacks (or the 4 and 1 play where he didn't even pick anyone up). Give me a break man. He has this team at 7-5 and in position to make the playoffs in his first year. Don't ride him out of here like everyone else please.

I'm not ready to throw Zorn overboard, but he also doesn't have this team positioned to make the play-offs. The Skins started strong, but have now clearly run out of steam. They're done. They'll be lucky to win one more game. It's time for Zorn to start grooming this team for the necessary changes that must be made to make this team competitive for next year. It's too late for this season.

Welch

If the Skins are improving, I sure don't see it. The offense is just as anemic as its ever been. The defense isn't as good as it was under Williams and they still can't generate a pass rush. And there's still nothing special about our special teams. In what aspects have they improved?

Our Receivers are god awful! Its become painful to watch them play....we need to address this and draft a punter in the off season..OH WAIT --WE DID ALREADY! Fred Davis is some playmaker really helping us here down the stretch ..he reminds me of John Mackey..disgusting...our Front office is an embarassment ...Just PLEASE DONT LOCK UP JC!!! Not yet..we need to see more body of work..these last 4 games will tell us more.