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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:31 pm
by tcwest10
As the season wears on, it's becoming more and more apparent that, at least in the NFC (that's the only place I pay any attention to, BTW) the only guaranteed
playoff spots will go to the division winners. I know that's ridiculously obvious, but think about it...the way the South is playing, the way the East is playing...10-6 might not do the trick this year.
Once you get past week 10, I think you could call every game a must-win (when you're 6-3) without getting any crazy looks from people.
Plus, as has already been written, it's TTiT. For that fact alone, we must leave nothing in the locker room. Bring it all, or stay on the bench, baby. It's Dallas Week. HTTR

Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:54 pm
by RayNAustin
JSPB22 wrote:Rodgers is a rookie? Starting for the first time in your career doesn't make you a rookie, Ray. This is, in fact, Rodgers 4th season in the NFL.


In lieu of responding to all of the pointless counterpoints, let's just highlight this most obvious contradiction.

Since the Jason Campbell great debate began in 2007, you and many others described Jason as a virtual rookie, discounting his presence as a Redskin in 2005 as meaningless because he was a rookie and never played. Campbell remained a rookie IN YOUR EYES during his first 7 games in the second half of 2006, and no rational discussion could convince you to admit that Campbell was a second year player. Then, in 2007, once again, Campbell was still a rookie because as you and others described it...he hadn't actually completed a full 16 games starting, in effect, maintaining his 1st year status, so the idea that he was a 3rd year player to you was unfathomable. Now, in his 4th year, (3rd year as a starter) we should give him 2 more years before evaluating him critically. That has been the story all along, and of course, you don't recognize your own double standard here, now do you?

Should we even mention the nonsense you and others constantly claimed that you can't expect rookie QB's to perform well....that it takes 3 years before a rookie is capable of being a starter?

Tell that to Matt Ryan (a real 1st year rookie) who is 12th on your cited list who has more TD's, more 20+ yard and double the 40+ yard completions of Jason Campbell, while playing on a team that in the midst of a "wholesale rebuilding process".

On that same list, we have Peyton Manning who comes in 19th on your list. Are you suggesting that Jason Campbell is head and shoulders superior to Peyton Manning? That is what you seem to be implying here.

Now, by week 5 this year, I was giving credit where credit was due regarding Campbell, and I didn't jump on him after the Rams debacle. I've watched the past 4 games without criticizing. But the fact is, he has been digressing. To ignore that fact or to argue it is clearly disingenuous, and that one factor alone is as responsible for the Redskins less than impressive results on offense as any other you might wish to assign responsibility. The defense is still performing at a high level, and no one can legitimately claim that the Redskin offense hasn't fallen behind along with Campbell's digressing performance.

No honest debate can exist about football with someone who would minimize the importance of the QB position in an efficient, well performing offense, or look critically at that player when the offense is performing poorly.

No better example exists than the one I cited (that you conveniently overlooked) relative to the Cowboys with Romo at QB and the Cowboys without him. Without him they are scoring less than half of the points; the running game has suffered, and their offensive line "appears" to be worse. In the span of three games they went from Super Bowl front runners to in danger of being eliminated from the playoff picture at the mid-season mark, all because of poor QB play from Brad Johnson.

And just as it is with the Cowboys, so too is it with the Redskins. When Jason Campbell makes the plays, the Redskin offense has looked good. When he doesn't the offense looks bad. The bottom line is the lack of consistency in Jason Cambell's performance......not hyperbole.....just a plain simple fact.

Of course you and many others are determined to be "Right" instead of being honest.

Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:59 pm
by Deadskins
RayNAustin wrote:
JSPB22 wrote:Rodgers is a rookie? Starting for the first time in your career doesn't make you a rookie, Ray. This is, in fact, Rodgers 4th season in the NFL.


In lieu of responding to all of the pointless counterpoints, let's just highlight this most obvious contradiction.

Since the Jason Campbell great debate began in 2007, you and many others described Jason as a virtual rookie, discounting his presence as a Redskin in 2005 as meaningless because he was a rookie and never played. Campbell remained a rookie IN YOUR EYES during his first 7 games in the second half of 2006, and no rational discussion could convince you to admit that Campbell was a second year player. Then, in 2007, once again, Campbell was still a rookie because as you and others described it...he hadn't actually completed a full 16 games starting, in effect, maintaining his 1st year status, so the idea that he was a 3rd year player to you was unfathomable. Now, in his 4th year, (3rd year as a starter) we should give him 2 more years before evaluating him critically. That has been the story all along, and of course, you don't recognize your own double standard here, now do you?

Should we even mention the nonsense you and others constantly claimed that you can't expect rookie QB's to perform well....that it takes 3 years before a rookie is capable of being a starter?

Tell that to Matt Ryan (a real 1st year rookie) who is 12th on your cited list who has more TD's, more 20+ yard and double the 40+ yard completions of Jason Campbell, while playing on a team that in the midst of a "wholesale rebuilding process".

On that same list, we have Peyton Manning who comes in 19th on your list. Are you suggesting that Jason Campbell is head and shoulders superior to Peyton Manning? That is what you seem to be implying here.

Now, by week 5 this year, I was giving credit where credit was due regarding Campbell, and I didn't jump on him after the Rams debacle. I've watched the past 4 games without criticizing. But the fact is, he has been digressing. To ignore that fact or to argue it is clearly disingenuous, and that one factor alone is as responsible for the Redskins less than impressive results on offense as any other you might wish to assign responsibility. The defense is still performing at a high level, and no one can legitimately claim that the Redskin offense hasn't fallen behind along with Campbell's digressing performance.

No honest debate can exist about football with someone who would minimize the importance of the QB position in an efficient, well performing offense, or look critically at that player when the offense is performing poorly.

No better example exists than the one I cited (that you conveniently overlooked) relative to the Cowboys with Romo at QB and the Cowboys without him. Without him they are scoring less than half of the points; the running game has suffered, and their offensive line "appears" to be worse. In the span of three games they went from Super Bowl front runners to in danger of being eliminated from the playoff picture at the mid-season mark, all because of poor QB play from Brad Johnson.

And just as it is with the Cowboys, so too is it with the Redskins. When Jason Campbell makes the plays, the Redskin offense has looked good. When he doesn't the offense looks bad. The bottom line is the lack of consistency in Jason Cambell's performance......not hyperbole.....just a plain simple fact.

Of course you and many others are determined to be "Right" instead of being honest.

:^o [-X Yawn ](*,)
Monkey

Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:13 pm
by SkinsJock
RayNAustin wrote:..In lieu of responding to all of the pointless counterpoints, let's just highlight this most obvious contradiction.

Since the Jason Campbell great debate began in 2007, you and many others described Jason as a virtual rookie, discounting his presence as a Redskin in 2005 as meaningless because he was a rookie and never played. Campbell remained a rookie IN YOUR EYES during his first 7 games in the second half of 2006, and no rational discussion could convince you to admit that Campbell was a second year player. Then, in 2007, once again, Campbell was still a rookie because as you and others described it...he hadn't actually completed a full 16 games starting, in effect, maintaining his 1st year status, so the idea that he was a 3rd year player to you was unfathomable. Now, in his 4th year, (3rd year as a starter) we should give him 2 more years before evaluating him critically. That has been the story all along, and of course, you don't recognize your own double standard here, now do you?

Should we even mention the nonsense you and others constantly claimed that you can't expect rookie QB's to perform well....that it takes 3 years before a rookie is capable of being a starter?

Tell that to Matt Ryan (a real 1st year rookie) who is 12th on your cited list who has more TD's, more 20+ yard and double the 40+ yard completions of Jason Campbell, while playing on a team that in the midst of a "wholesale rebuilding process".

On that same list, we have Peyton Manning who comes in 19th on your list. Are you suggesting that Jason Campbell is head and shoulders superior to Peyton Manning? That is what you seem to be implying here.

Now, by week 5 this year, I was giving credit where credit was due regarding Campbell, and I didn't jump on him after the Rams debacle. I've watched the past 4 games without criticizing. But the fact is, he has been digressing. To ignore that fact or to argue it is clearly disingenuous, and that one factor alone is as responsible for the Redskins less than impressive results on offense as any other you might wish to assign responsibility. The defense is still performing at a high level, and no one can legitimately claim that the Redskin offense hasn't fallen behind along with Campbell's digressing performance.

No honest debate can exist about football with someone who would minimize the importance of the QB position in an efficient, well performing offense, or look critically at that player when the offense is performing poorly.

No better example exists than the one I cited (that you conveniently overlooked) relative to the Cowboys with Romo at QB and the Cowboys without him. Without him they are scoring less than half of the points; the running game has suffered, and their offensive line "appears" to be worse. In the span of three games they went from Super Bowl front runners to in danger of being eliminated from the playoff picture at the mid-season mark, all because of poor QB play from Brad Johnson.

And just as it is with the Cowboys, so too is it with the Redskins. When Jason Campbell makes the plays, the Redskin offense has looked good. When he doesn't the offense looks bad. The bottom line is the lack of consistency in Jason Cambell's performance......not hyperbole.....just a plain simple fact.

Of course you and many others are determined to be "Right" instead of being honest.


I may have missed something but the reason for the "tiny" sizing is that there did not seem to be anything here about the topic :shock:

I guess I was just sizing this post appropriately :wink:

Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:18 pm
by tcwest10
I don't think anything short of 11-5 is going to get us a spot with a decent seed.
Can we do that? Can we limit ourselves to no more than two more losses?

Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:36 pm
by Champsturf
tcwest10 wrote:I don't think anything short of 11-5 is going to get us a spot with a decent seed.
Can we do that? Can we limit ourselves to no more than two more losses?
Can? absolutely. Will they? hmmmm The jury is still out.

Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:07 pm
by SkinsJock
We have to win this game now because next week we now will face a Seahawks team that is 2-8 and just lost to the Cards

I can hear all the true faithful reminding us how we cannot win in that stadium, no matter what uniforms we wear :lol:

Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:13 pm
by tcwest10
...except now, we have Zorn. Who knows Holmgren and Hasselbeck better then Zorn?

Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:16 pm
by SkinsJock
tcwest10 wrote:...except now, we have Zorn. Who knows Holmgren and Hasselbeck better then Zorn?


I agree tcw - this guy will be really keen to do well back there also - this sqwarks team is not the team of old either :wink:

Re: Why Must Win

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:04 pm
by SkinFan63
cleg wrote:Just curious. Why is everyone from the national media to those of us on THN consider this to be a must win game? But most, if not all would consider the Eagles to be a "sleeping giant" or "underperforming" or "about to break out?" It seems to me that no matter what the Skins do or accomplish like go to the playoffs two of the last three years are worse off than the Eagles who've stunk since the 2004 Super Bowl and have missed the playoffs two of the last three years with the one year having J. Garcia as the QB.

This game is important but it is not must win. The Skins need to go 4-3 to end 10-6. This and the Giants game are the only tough one on the schedule - Philly here, @ Cincy, @ SF, @ Bmore (maybe tough, we'll see).

I am Mr. Negativity, I think the sky is falling or the world is coming to an end a lot but come one people - CP or not this is not a must win game.


ALL games are must wins for us because:
1. We piss them away
2. We NEVER get any respect.
3. We NEVER get any respect.
4. We NEVER get any respect.
5. Games are meant to be won, and that's the point of playing them.
6. We always wait till the last minute to decide we better win the next four in a row.
7. Our team has created an atmosphere in which fans are expecting to be disappointed.
8. $9.00 nachos at the game = eye burning flatulence at home.
9. Romo's swollen pinky embarrases us in our own house.
10. Jessica Simpson is in love with a geeky looking guy who's last name rhymes with "HOMO."

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:55 pm
by skinsfan#33
tcwest10 wrote:I don't think anything short of 11-5 is going to get us a spot with a decent seed.
Can we do that? Can we limit ourselves to no more than two more losses?


Heck, 12-4 (yes I know that won't happen) won't get us any better than a #5 seed. A road playoff game with the #4 seed.


I say this because unless Manning get hurt the Giants won't lose more than one more game, maybe two. That means they win the division at 13-3 at worst.

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:51 am
by PulpExposure
skinsfan#33 wrote:
tcwest10 wrote:I don't think anything short of 11-5 is going to get us a spot with a decent seed.
Can we do that? Can we limit ourselves to no more than two more losses?


Heck, 12-4 (yes I know that won't happen) won't get us any better than a #5 seed. A road playoff game with the #4 seed.


I say this because unless Manning get hurt the Giants won't lose more than one more game, maybe two. That means they win the division at 13-3 at worst.


I'm not sure that Mannig is all that critical to the Giants' success (though he is having, by far, his best year). Seriously, if you put Tony Banks on a team that runs the ball as well as the Giants do, he'd be winning too.

Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:27 am
by skinsfan#33
PulpExposure wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:
tcwest10 wrote:I don't think anything short of 11-5 is going to get us a spot with a decent seed.
Can we do that? Can we limit ourselves to no more than two more losses?


Heck, 12-4 (yes I know that won't happen) won't get us any better than a #5 seed. A road playoff game with the #4 seed.


I say this because unless Manning get hurt the Giants won't lose more than one more game, maybe two. That means they win the division at 13-3 at worst.


I'm not sure that Mannig is all that critical to the Giants' success (though he is having, by far, his best year). Seriously, if you put Tony Banks on a team that runs the ball as well as the Giants do, he'd be winning too.


Not very many!