Page 3 of 3
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:04 pm
by VetSkinsFan
SkinsJock wrote:SkinsJock wrote:I hope we see a really conservative ball control offense this week - we just need to score enough to win - there is no sense in looking like the patriots of 2007
VetSkinsFan wrote:That really isn't the point most people I see making. The point is that with the talent available, we shouldn't be sitting on the edge of our seats praying to the football gods that a 52 yard field goal is missed so we don't go in to overtime vs a 2-3 team. There's no reason why we shouldn't have a nice cushion in the 4th quarter. Every game we've played since week 2 has been decided by a touchdown or less. I think our team is much more capable than that.
FYI, we DID NOT control the clock last game. We actually lost the clock game, 31:08 - 28:52.
I am not against scoring more points and I agree that we should not have to worry about a team missing a FG. BUT - Even if they had made that FG after what we had seen happen down on that goal line - that D was not going to let them be able to have another opportunity to win
We should score more points but not just to score points - we just need to max out our time of possession and score more points than the other team - I think a controlled ground game that uses a pass to keep the defenders off the line of scrimmage is far better than a really good passing game that uses the running game. I don't care about scoring or stats - I just want the win. Teams that are more pass oriented are not as successful in my opinion as teams that have a great running game and can use a passing game to make that ground game even better.
I don't think anyone is crazy enough to consider our ~20pts a game similar to the Pats last year. You're using extremes to make your point.
I was not referring to their points per game BUT more to the fact that they scored more points than they needed to win the game.
I am certain that our coaches and players are a lot more interested in wins than looking as good as they possibly can which at times is what the Patriots of last year seemed to be doing. You do not need to beat teams in the manner that the Patriots did to some teams last year.
Those league leader titles will be another notch in the belt of individuals like CP to get in the Hall of Fame, so don't trivialize the stats completely.
I am sorry that you feel like that - I could care less about the HOF - the HOF should recognize everyone that deserves to be there - for players to feel that they should be allowed to pad their stats when they get a chance to in order to look good for the HOF is ridiculous to me.
Actually, IF I were an owner of a team that was playing well together as a team and I had a player indicate that he needed better stats to help him get into the HOF - I would get rid of him to show him that the team's success is a result of all the players playing together not because of any individuals stats.
I think there is too much emphasis on individual recognition rather than team success - Pro Bowl election is a case in point - I would rather have no Redskins in the Pro Bowl or the whole team - no player deserves to go there without the group around him that made it possible.
We are hopefully going to have a great season and that is more due to everyone not to a few guys having a good year.
How lucky are we not to have a bunch of those superstars that a lot of fans here wanted - there is no way anyone can convince me that we would be a better team with Randy Moss, TO, Kellen Winslow, any WR named Williams or any of the star offensive or defensive lineman that many were clamouring for - this is a team and we are showing that it is better to have players that make each other better than players with HOF stats whose teams are imploding because those players are just playing for themselves and not the team.
HAIL
I don't think leaving an open example of the Pats was a good way to illustrate your point between Spygate and running up scores.
On the HoF, where exactly did you see Portis mention that he wanted stats for the HoF. I thnk you read waay too far in to it. A true leader with the talent that CP has doesn't need to ask for the ball. He gets it done and will be an integral part of any offense if the coach is smart. I don't thin Moss, CP, or
ey are playing for themselves, and especially CP and
ey, have a good chance to get in the HoF if they maintain their production. How on earth talented people who play for the team (or isnt' that obvious) are mentioned in the same sentence as HoF can be a negative is beyond me.
...and for the record, I never wanted any of those "superstars." We have plenty of talent in most positions and I believe the draft is the main source for our weaknesses.
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:42 pm
by John Manfreda
Personally I think he is a west coast offense back. I think his skills and talents are tailored made for this offense, I don't think the Gibbs and Saunders offense fully exploited his talents.
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:51 pm
by brad7686
John Manfreda wrote:Personally I think he is a west coast offense back. I think his skills and talents are tailored made for this offense, I don't think the Gibbs and Saunders offense fully exploited his talents.
That's the way i look at it. Although i think he is more powerful now by running in the Gibbs/Saunders offense.
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:42 pm
by redskinsrule54
Okay well watch this weekend for him running into blockers backs.Im gonna guess youll see it on a pulling linemen or two on an outside run after picking up 4 or 5 yards and decide if you think he could have got more yards on the play.
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:47 pm
by BigRedskinDaddy
John Manfreda wrote:Personally I think he is a west coast offense back. I think his skills and talents are tailored made for this offense, I don't think the Gibbs and Saunders offense fully exploited his talents.
Speaking of which, I wonder how much of the Gibbs/Saunders blocking schemes are in place? These days zone blocking is all the rage, as opposed to Gibbs 1.0's vertical offense with it's power running game. The Hogs used to take a man or key on a LB based on the play call, and were expected to handle him one-on-one (which they of course did with amazing success).
In today's NFL, zone schemes call for linemen to step in a direction, double-team whoever flows with them, and have the inside play-side lineman work his way on to a LB. This is the scheme that the Broncos have used in their RB factory for years. It works if you have a one cut and go back with excellent vision -- one who can anticipate seams or cutback lanes that wouldn't be there in man blocking. CP fits that mold. As such I wonder if while it may be called the Gibbs power game, perhaps Buges has installed a zone scheme more in line with most WCO's?
Anybody want to speak to this?
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:44 pm
by SkinsJock
VetSkinsFan wrote:.. I don't think leaving an open example of the Pats was a good way to illustrate your point between Spygate and running up scores.
I never meant to imply anything about "spygate" and that word is not used in my post - I was only pointing out that in 2007, in some games, the Patriots were scoring more points than they needed = running up the score
VetSkinsFan wrote:.. On the HoF, where exactly did you see Portis mention that he wanted stats for the HoF.
I did not - I thought that is what you implied when you posted this
VetSkinsFan wrote: Those league leader titles will be another notch in the belt of individuals like CP to get in the Hall of Fame, so don't trivialize the stats completely
what were you implying here?
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:51 pm
by SkinsJock
I think some here are way over analyzing what Portis is doing - he is just executing the running game and following his blockers - to think that the league leader in rushing who is on his way to establishing new team trecords for rushing should adjust what he is doing because an armchair RB thinks he might be better at what he does - is truly amazing.
This guy is driving the pile and giving his all - I think he knows the best way to maximize the yards gained - this is what he does
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:01 pm
by chiefhog44
He was in DC for the offseason
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:51 pm
by redskinsrule54
I knew someone would respond by defending CP's honor, but i wasnt trying to say i had any idea how to run the ball better than CP. I just made a comment about something ive seen him do alot the last couple of years. I was just asking what people hear thought of it or if they have noticed him doing it alot. And had you read the hold thread you would have seen early i said i guess it just means hes following his blocks to a great extent which i guess is a good thing.
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:55 pm
by Irn-Bru
SkinsJock wrote:I think some here are way over analyzing what Portis is doing - he is just executing the running game and following his blockers
This guy is driving the pile and giving his all - I think he knows the best way to maximize the yards gained - this is what he does
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:01 am
by redskinsrule54
There is no pile when he does it, its when hes on the outside and its 1 on 1 blocking is what im talking about. Why would i be talking about in a pile, every rb in the nfl hits there blockers when trying to drive the pile.
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:41 am
by VetSkinsFan
SkinsJock wrote:VetSkinsFan wrote:.. I don't think leaving an open example of the Pats was a good way to illustrate your point between Spygate and running up scores.
I never meant to imply anything about "spygate" and that word is not used in my post - I was only pointing out that in 2007, in some games, the Patriots were scoring more points than they needed = running up the score
I was illustrating when you don't give a specific example, then an individuals (mine for instance) personal judgment comes in to effect, possible not taking your example the way it was intended.
SkinsJock wrote:VetSkinsFan wrote:.. On the HoF, where exactly did you see Portis mention that he wanted stats for the HoF.
I did not - I thought that is what you implied when you posted this
VetSkinsFan wrote: Those league leader titles will be another notch in the belt of individuals like CP to get in the Hall of Fame, so don't trivialize the stats completely
what were you implying here?
[/quote]
I implied that when the voters come down to it, the more high profile the candidate is (in a positive light), the better chance the candidate has to get elected earlier. Case in point : Art Monk. Statistically superior to some of his predecessors, but didn't have that "one" catch, so he was stifled when most of the people old enough to know who Art Monk was said he was robbed.
I guess I was guilty of the same generalization of example that I accused you of... my apologies
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:34 am
by SkinsJock
VetSkinsFan wrote:.I implied that when the voters come down to it, the more high profile the candidate is (in a positive light), the better chance the candidate has to get elected earlier. Case in point : Art Monk. Statistically superior to some of his predecessors, but didn't have that "one" catch, so he was stifled when most of the people old enough to know who Art Monk was said he was robbed.
I guess I was guilty of the same generalization of example that I accused you of... my apologies
no worries, and I understand your point about Monk - I also feel that that there are a lot of other players that should be in there and hopefully will make it soon.
i just think that Portis will either make it very easy for the HOF voters or he will not be close - he just seems like a special back and while the media has had an agenda about some players it was not so much their performance on the field (in my opinion) as their relationship with the media and the public that hurt them
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:20 am
by langleyparkjoe
hey folks, i'll tell ya what, if CP stays healthy for the next couple of years and keeps playing the way he is currently (818 yards, 7 tds) i think he could be in the discussion for sure. wow, years ago when we made the trade I was blown because I was a big champ fan.. now I'm excited because we have pretty good cbs and one hell of a rb.
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:09 pm
by VetSkinsFan
langleyparkjoe wrote:hey folks, i'll tell ya what, if CP stays healthy for the next couple of years and keeps playing the way he is currently (818 yards, 7 tds) i think he could be in the discussion for sure. wow, years ago when we made the trade I was blown because I was a big champ fan.. now I'm excited because we have pretty good cbs and one hell of a rb.
They keep running him 350-375x/year, he won't have that many more years.
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:31 pm
by SkinsJock
I agree about the carries per game - I also think that he's been used a fair bit so far but I would not be surprised to see that go down as the season progresses and we get other aspects of the offense involved - I think that Portis likes the workload but I agree that we do not want to overwork him
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:53 pm
by Hoss
if I've said it once, i've said it a hundred times........
clinton is the man.
clinton is my favorite player. he gives 100% every play. not only will he grind it out when he gets the ball, but he will simply lay you out if he's blocking in the back-field....slobber-knockin'. portis is all business on the field and that is what i love.
will he be a hof'er?.......who knows. longevity is usually the key and a career can end in an instant.
but, right now, i'll enjoy the ride.
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:43 am
by VetSkinsFan
Hoss wrote:if I've said it once, i've said it a hundred times........
clinton is the man.
clinton is my favorite player. he gives 100% every play. not only will he grind it out when he gets the ball, but he will simply lay you out if he's blocking in the back-field....slobber-knockin'. portis is all business on the field and that is what i love.
will he be a hof'er?.......who knows. longevity is usually the key and a career can end in an instant.
but, right now, i'll enjoy the ride.
QFT
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:37 pm
by redskinsrule54
Did anyone spot him doin last weekend against the lions like i said just slammed into the back of a linemen and got up pissed at the linemen i think, or he might have just been pumped cause it was a huge run.
Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:11 am
by roybus14
SkinsJock wrote:I agree about the carries per game - I also think that he's been used a fair bit so far but I would not be surprised to see that go down as the season progresses and we get other aspects of the offense involved - I think that Portis likes the workload but I agree that we do not want to overwork him
They will go down as soon as the passing game becomes "money" like CP. Moss with the hammy and the passing game looking a little suspect at times, it's only a matter of time until they break out and become consistent enough for CP's carries to drop a little bit. When that happens, look for more break out runs from CP.
As a matter of fact, he averages at least one a game doesn't. Mind you, he hasn't taken one to the house but he's gotten free with the potential to take one to da house in each game except the Giants game I think. I take that back. He had one for 13 against the G-men and one for 9 against Nawlin's. All the other games this season, he's average at least one burst for 20 or more yards with his longest of 31 against Dallas and Detroit each.
Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:46 pm
by VetSkinsFan
roybus14 wrote:SkinsJock wrote:I agree about the carries per game - I also think that he's been used a fair bit so far but I would not be surprised to see that go down as the season progresses and we get other aspects of the offense involved - I think that Portis likes the workload but I agree that we do not want to overwork him
They will go down as soon as the passing game becomes "money" like CP. Moss with the hammy and the passing game looking a little suspect at times, it's only a matter of time until they break out and become consistent enough for CP's carries to drop a little bit. When that happens, look for more break out runs from CP.
As a matter of fact, he averages at least one a game doesn't. Mind you, he hasn't taken one to the house but he's gotten free with the potential to take one to da house in each game except the Giants game I think. I take that back. He had one for 13 against the G-men and one for 9 against Nawlin's. All the other games this season, he's average at least one burst for 20 or more yards with his longest of 31 against Dallas and Detroit each.
I don't mind that he doesn't have a 50+ TD run. He's producing and that's what's important. Would I love to see it? Hell yeah, but I'm satisfied with what he's given us.