The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Countertrey wrote:Wow. I mean, when the standard for all time quality punting in DC is Sam Baugh, and the consistency standard for the last 30 years is Mike Bragg... to find the occasional game changing "at the worst possible time" shanked punt to be acceptable is... well, wow. I mean, you could practically set your watch by it... late in the 4th quarter, 'skins up by 3, need a big punt from their 30... and Frosty'd drive it 14 yards out of bounds. Same punt, up by 20... probably get ripped for 70 yards...

Look, Frosty is a good guy... and as punters go, is one hell of a tackler... plus, he has a true Ray Guy cannon for a leg... but he had absolutely no focus unless he was fighting for his job. It simply isn't practical to keep an extra punter on hand, simply to help pressure him keep his focus.

He had ample time to convince management that he could be reliable... and couldn't.

Time to move on.

Come on, Brooks... time to settle down, rook.

I liked him b/c he was a LB in college IIRC. He'd make some good tackles!!

Countertrey wrote:Wow. I mean, when the standard for all time quality punting in DC is Sam Baugh, and the consistency standard for the last 30 years is Mike Bragg... to find the occasional game changing "at the worst possible time" shanked punt to be acceptable is... well, wow. I mean, you could practically set your watch by it... late in the 4th quarter, 'skins up by 3, need a big punt from their 30... and Frosty'd drive it 14 yards out of bounds. Same punt, up by 20... probably get ripped for 70 yards...

Look, Frosty is a good guy... and as punters go, is one hell of a tackler... plus, he has a true Ray Guy cannon for a leg... but he had absolutely no focus unless he was fighting for his job. It simply isn't practical to keep an extra punter on hand, simply to help pressure him keep his focus.

He had ample time to convince management that he could be reliable... and couldn't.

Time to move on.

Come on, Brooks... time to settle down, rook.

That just seems like a ridiculously simplified view to me.

WANTING Brooks to be better doesn't make it so. Fact is that we're DEAD LAST in punting right now; Brooks' 2008 GROSS average of 36.8 is LESS than Frost's 2007 NET average of 38.3.

You can talk about shanking inopportune punts all you like, right now, Brooks can't even kick it as far as the returner was bringing Frost's punts back to.

That's a major liability.

Sure you give the kid time - one more game like I said. If there's no improvement, then I would have him fall down the stairs at Redskin Park.

I never suggested we keep an extra punter, so I'm guessing that's directed at someone else, but why can't you anyway? You might not want two on your active roster, but what's wrong with putting Brooks on the PS... think anyone would touch him the way he has punted?

Not a chance.

And if you are that worried, then just give Bubba Tyer a call and he'll give you a creative way for the kid to end up on IR...

The 14-year old who won Shaun Suisham's Pass, Punt and Kick competition this summer kicked the ball 40 yards... I can punt a ball 40 yards... it's hardly a landmark achievement to be punting the ball 36 yards... and in my opinion, it certainly isn't enough to keep an NFL job.

At least Brooks isn't outkicking the coverage.

Let me just say for the record also, that I WANT Brooks to succeed. I want him to turn it around and be our punter.

And as long as he shows signs of coming around today, I'm not out to pull the trigger on the kid. I just think that if he continues to struggle as mightily as he has to date, you have to do what's best for the team.

It might hurt to hear it, but at this point in the season, we're just not good enough to give up gobs of yards on special teams each week, and expect to come out on top. We need to scratch out wins any way we can early on, and know that as the season progresses, the players will grow into their new systems.

Maybe then we can average 5.5 yards per punt and get by, but IMO, right now we can't.

BossHog wrote:

Countertrey wrote:Wow. I mean, when the standard for all time quality punting in DC is Sam Baugh, and the consistency standard for the last 30 years is Mike Bragg... to find the occasional game changing "at the worst possible time" shanked punt to be acceptable is... well, wow. I mean, you could practically set your watch by it... late in the 4th quarter, 'skins up by 3, need a big punt from their 30... and Frosty'd drive it 14 yards out of bounds. Same punt, up by 20... probably get ripped for 70 yards...

Look, Frosty is a good guy... and as punters go, is one hell of a tackler... plus, he has a true Ray Guy cannon for a leg... but he had absolutely no focus unless he was fighting for his job. It simply isn't practical to keep an extra punter on hand, simply to help pressure him keep his focus.

He had ample time to convince management that he could be reliable... and couldn't.

Time to move on.

Come on, Brooks... time to settle down, rook.

That just seems like a ridiculously simplified view to me.

WANTING Brooks to be better doesn't make it so. Fact is that we're DEAD LAST in punting right now; Brooks' 2008 GROSS average of 36.8 is LESS than Frost's 2007 NET average of 38.3.

You can talk about shanking inopportune punts all you like, right now, Brooks can't even kick it as far as the returner was bringing Frost's punts back to.

That's a major liability.

Sure you give the kid time - one more game like I said. If there's no improvement, then I would have him fall down the stairs at Redskin Park.

I never suggested we keep an extra punter, so I'm guessing that's directed at someone else, but why can't you anyway? You might not want two on your active roster, but what's wrong with putting Brooks on the PS... think anyone would touch him the way he has punted?

Not a chance.

And if you are that worried, then just give Bubba Tyer a call and he'll give you a creative way for the kid to end up on IR...

The 14-year old who won Shaun Suisham's Pass, Punt and Kick competition this summer kicked the ball 40 yards... I can punt a ball 40 yards... it's hardly a landmark achievement to be punting the ball 36 yards... and in my opinion, it certainly isn't enough to keep an NFL job.

Wanting Brooks to be better????? All I want is consistency, and we were never going to get it from Frost. My point with the extra punter was directed at no one in particular, rather was a comment on the fact that the only time Frost has shown consistency is when there is a hand on his collar, ready to yank him. I have no idea if we'll get performance from Brooks... but it was time to make the move. It's done. Time to move on.

Better punting, still poor holding. The laces were facing back on the 4th quarter FG attempt. Zorn gave him an earful about that.

I like Brooks and I feel that with time he'll be just great.

Look, we're not going to the superbowl this year. So let's get all these small kinks out now.

I feel confident that next year Brooks will be solid and consistent.

And boy did he kick the mustard out of that ball yesterday!

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Look, we're not going to the superbowl this year.

I beg to differ.
How can you be so sure, CLL?

JSPB22 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Look, we're not going to the superbowl this year.

I beg to differ.
How can you be so sure, CLL?

I apologize.

Revision: I can't belive this front office was stupid enough to rid ourselves of the consistency of Frosty. Who in their right mind would put a rookie in when we're clearly on our way to the Lombardi trophy?!?! This team has everything in place to be a contender and this one issue is going to undo it all. It's the typical Vinny, Danny fun house.

JSPB22 wrote:Better punting, still poor holding. The laces were facing back on the 4th quarter FG attempt. Zorn gave him an earful about that.

I've seen a couple of people say this, that is not correct:

With 3 minutes 29 seconds to play and Washington leading 24-17, Shaun Suisham missed a 52-yard field goal try, giving Arizona field position. Before the kick, holder Durant Brooks, a rookie, signaled prematurely for a snap before the official had started the play clock. Confusion followed, maybe unsettling Suisham.

When Brooks returned to the sideline, Zorn went ballistic inches from his face, yelling, pointing his finger in his chest, and, for nearly a minute, imitating a smaller version of Mike Ditka in full snap. It took a cup of water from a coach and a walk by himself for Zorn to cool down. Gibbs showed less emotion in his whole career.

"What made me so mad, it was like we iced our own kicker," Zorn said. "I was pretty bent out of shape."

Fios wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:Better punting, still poor holding. The laces were facing back on the 4th quarter FG attempt. Zorn gave him an earful about that.

I've seen a couple of people say this, that is not correct:

With 3 minutes 29 seconds to play and Washington leading 24-17, Shaun Suisham missed a 52-yard field goal try, giving Arizona field position. Before the kick, holder Durant Brooks, a rookie, signaled prematurely for a snap before the official had started the play clock. Confusion followed, maybe unsettling Suisham.

When Brooks returned to the sideline, Zorn went ballistic inches from his face, yelling, pointing his finger in his chest, and, for nearly a minute, imitating a smaller version of Mike Ditka in full snap. It took a cup of water from a coach and a walk by himself for Zorn to cool down. Gibbs showed less emotion in his whole career.

"What made me so mad, it was like we iced our own kicker," Zorn said. "I was pretty bent out of shape."

OK, maybe the reason for the earful was incorrect, but the laces were definitely facing backwards. Could be why Shazam missed, IMO.

I thought Brooks did redeem himself to some degree with his 56 yarder at the end of the 1st half. That punt pinned the Cards deep and effectively ended any chance they had to move the ball and score in the last minute of the 1st half.

Brooks has been struggling, no doubt. But I had a thought as to perhaps why. I'm thinking the coaches are teaching him about hang time and not out kicking the coverage. In doing so, Brooks has that thought forefront in his mind and is not thinking about getting some distance on his punts. In other words, he's been kicking for height instead of distance. We know he has a leg and can boot long ones, so maybe he's just a bit flustered at the moment.

I could be wrong, but I think he'll come around.

JSPB22 wrote:Better punting, still poor holding. The laces were facing back on the 4th quarter FG attempt. Zorn gave him an earful about that.

I didn't see anything wrong with the hold on the FG. Even the Announcers went back and replayed it 2 or 3 times and they even said that there was nothing wrong with the hold. Jim Zorn was way out of line for that.

jeremyroyce wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:Better punting, still poor holding. The laces were facing back on the 4th quarter FG attempt. Zorn gave him an earful about that.

I didn't see anything wrong with the hold on the FG. Even the Announcers went back and replayed it 2 or 3 times and they even said that there was nothing wrong with the hold. Jim Zorn was way out of line for that.

Read Fios' reply and my reply back, then we'll talk.

I thought Brooks had a much better game and seems to be all right. I think he'll stick around.

JSPB22 wrote:

jeremyroyce wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:Better punting, still poor holding. The laces were facing back on the 4th quarter FG attempt. Zorn gave him an earful about that.

I didn't see anything wrong with the hold on the FG. Even the Announcers went back and replayed it 2 or 3 times and they even said that there was nothing wrong with the hold. Jim Zorn was way out of line for that.

Read Fios' reply and my reply back, then we'll talk.

I actually sort of agree though, I watched the replay of that, didn't seem like the hold -- laces included -- was bad and, re the laces, and I've not seen a report of that anywhere save for this site.

I heard it on the radio show last night, they had a sound bite of Zorn saying to the effect of "Icing" your on kicker.

SKINFAN wrote:I heard it on the radio show last night, they had a sound bite of Zorn saying to the effect of "Icing" your on kicker.

No, that I get, see my previous post, it's the laces out thing I've not seen reported elsewhere

Fios wrote:

SKINFAN wrote:I heard it on the radio show last night, they had a sound bite of Zorn saying to the effect of "Icing" your on kicker.

No, that I get, see my previous post, it's the laces out thing I've not seen reported elsewhere

Hopefully the game will be on NFL Replay this week, and these burning questions can be answered once and for all.

Brooks will be fine. Those last two kicks had great hangtime, something I can honestly say that I haven't seen with Frost. I was actually surprised that somebody picked up Frost so soon. After watching Brooks this past week, I can say that he had some great potential and I'm glad we just didn't "settle" on Frost.

Don't forget why we got rid of him...he was 29th in the league in Punting Average and 23rd in net .

As for the holding, does it make sense to anybody that a punter would be fighting for his NFL life because he's not a good holder?

I've always wondered why the punter would be the holder. I have always thought that the back-up QB is a better option or in our case ARE could easily fill this role...and he wouldn't drop the ball. Scratch that, maybe Brooks is the best option.

Team must be doing ok, though... I mean, SEVEN pages about the punter????

Countertrey wrote:Team must be doing ok, though... I mean, SEVEN pages about the punter????

...........EIGHT.......

I'm sitting here rewatching the game in glorious high definition and I see where Durant signaled to start the snap prematurely... You see Frosty start start stepping forward before they all realize that the ref is still standing over the LOS.

Stupid mental error on Durrants part...

It doesn't excuse Frosty for missing that FG...IMHO. So what if Durrant iced him?!?! The opposing teams are going to ice him all year long and we all know that Frosty melts when the heat is on.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I'm sitting here rewatching the game in glorious high definition and I see where Durant signaled to start the snap prematurely... You see Frosty start start stepping forward before they all realize that the ref is still standing over the LOS.

Stupid mental error on Durrants part...

It doesn't excuse Frosty for missing that FG...IMHO. So what if Durrant iced him?!?! The opposing teams are going to ice him all year long and we all know that Frosty melts when the heat is on.

Is it on NFL Network?

JSPB22 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I'm sitting here rewatching the game in glorious high definition and I see where Durant signaled to start the snap prematurely... You see Frosty start start stepping forward before they all realize that the ref is still standing over the LOS.

Stupid mental error on Durrants part...

It doesn't excuse Frosty for missing that FG...IMHO. So what if Durrant iced him?!?! The opposing teams are going to ice him all year long and we all know that Frosty melts when the heat is on.

Is it on NFL Network?

Nope, on my PC.