The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Jake wrote:Our problem is Sammy Baugh isn't in playing shape anymore.

Take um to church Jake

Collins is a pretty decent QB to me, I'm seeing everyone saying he won't do as good and stuff, that's a negative. Collins is obviously a west-coast offensive type QB so how could he fail in this system? The dude played pretty darn decent for us at the end of last year and with more weapons now he'd do even better. Not to mention our o-line will be alot healthier than before. I do hope I won't have to see Collins play though...

I remember a couple of years ago when USC smashed Oklahoma in the national championship game, that was also the year Auburn went undefeated and got screwed over by the bcs computers. Jason Campbell was an absolute monster playing in the college west-coast offense. With all the rookie mistakes being corrected now with Zorn and his staff, I honestly see this guy having a break out season. I'm not saying he'll be in the probowl but teams are gonna start to pay attention to him. I personally wanna see D. Williams all over again and this new system should help JC achieve that for me.

QB controversy? Not really, JC's our guy, TC has proven to be a good backup, and let's develop Colt for the future; sounds good, time to execute.

old-timer wrote:The sad part is, Campbell MAY one day be a good, even great QB. But people like you who think you're his fans, who want to push him in before he's ready, could be just the ones to prevent that. Think about it.

Does it really benefit a QB to ride the bench instead of play the game? Peyton Manning started all 16 games his rookie year. He seems to have had a decent career so far.

old-timer wrote:Or maybe it's because we have a management team that has the same poor judgement that you do

That's funny. While I, and many others here, don't agree with you, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But I'm sure you would have to recognize your opinion is in the extreme minority.

Let's take the front office out of this for a moment, since we all know they have absolutely no clue how to evaluate talent... right?

Collins has been a back-up QB his entire career. Has every one else Collins has ever played for also mistakenly misjudged his talent level, for the guys entire career? I'm not talking about fans, but by people actually employed in the industry?

The former NFL QB and guru QB coach, Jim Zorn, recognizes superior talent in JC and named him the starter. I'm quite sure this decision wasn't based on a popularity contest conducted by the fans.

A three time Super Bowl winning coach, Joe Gibbs, also thought JC was more talented, and even though Collins was on the roster, named JC the starter when Brunell's time was done.

Al Saunders, who probably knows Collins better than everyone else, also never made Collins a stater, in KC or in Washington. It was Saunders' offense and play book. I think he would be most qualified to determine the best guy to run it.

I'm just a fan, but are you really suggesting all those people are wrong about Collins too?

No, I'm not a scout or a paid talent evaluator working in the NFL. But I think I can recognize different levels of talent in players. I think JC has a better arm, a stronger arm with far more velocity on his passes, has better height and size and is much quicker with superior scrambling abilities. And even though JC missed on a few passes (like other QB's never miss receivers) in my opinion, based on what I saw, JC has better accuracy. And a completion percentage doesn't always tell the whole story, our receivers dropped a ton of passes last year.

Aside from all that, Collins is very near the end of his career. JC was a 1st round pick and is obviously our future. He therefore needs to take every snap possible, that's the logical play.

Listen, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and not everyone will agree 100% of the time. But you don't have to be so condescending when criticizing others. That fact is, you are the one with the minority opinion here regarding JC and Collins. And quite frankly, I really don't understand what skills you see in Collins that are superior to JC's.

old-timer: You're venturing very close to the realm of personal attacks, please stick to the topic at-hand, thanks

Al Saunders, who probably knows Collins better than everyone else, also never made Collins a stater, in KC or in Washington. It was Saunders' offense and play book. I think he would be most qualified to determine the best guy to run it.

I agree with the rest of your post about Collins. However, I think that you're wrong here. I think that it was 100% Gibbs' decision to start Brunell. If Saunders had his say I would imagine that we would've seen Collins starting over MB04.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Al Saunders, who probably knows Collins better than everyone else, also never made Collins a stater, in KC or in Washington. It was Saunders' offense and play book. I think he would be most qualified to determine the best guy to run it.

I agree with the rest of your post about Collins. However, I think that you're wrong here. I think that it was 100% Gibbs' decision to start Brunell. If Saunders had his say I would imagine that we would've seen Collins starting over MB04.

Canes, that's probably true. I was more referring to the time when Brunell was finished and Jason got the nod over Collins. Collins knew that system better than anyone, having played in it for about four decades. Brunell was Gibbs' guy, no doubt, but he was the starter before Saunders came. So, I agree with you that Brunell starting was Gibbs' decision, all while Jason sat and learned. I was talking about Saunders never starting Collins, at any point in time, here OR in K.C., and specifically when the time came to bench MB04.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. I think Collins is another example of a guy who has gotten better over the years BECAUSE he was on the bench. There have been numerous examples of QB's who struggled early and then shined late in their careers because it is such a cerebral position. Even if they play under the same coach all those years, they are spending alot of time running the scout team who mimicks their opponents offensive scheme. It has to be great experience to just learn, learn, learn without the immediate pressure of winning or the physical punishment associated. Rich Gannon, Brad Johnson, Marc Bulger, Kurt Warner and many, many others benefited from being backups, or from being benched early in their careers so they can learn more before getting their next shot.

Now, I'm not saying Collins is better than JC, but it is pretty obvious why both Gibbs and Zorn would make him starter over Collins. He is young and has potential. if you believe in yourself as a coach, you would probably rather mold a young guy into your system than a ten year backup. Also, I'm sure Snyder prefers their 1st round draft choice to be under center because it sells more tickets.

So, I think the truth is in the middle. Collins is probably a darned good QB and JC probably has more potential, more upside and more popularity as a result. We're lucky to have them both.