The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

SkinsFreak wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:I bet Collins picks up the west coast offense fast. Jason Campbell will probably struggle to pick the offense up. If Jason Campbell happens to struggle I dont know how much more patience I will have with him being the starter. Even though it is a new offense, I want results now.

How can you say that? Collins has NEVER played in a WCO and Campbell HAS. Baring an injury, there's little chance Collins sees the field, and I think Zorn has made this pretty clear, JC is our starter.

SkinsFreak wrote:1. Campbell is noted for being an extremely intelligent guy.

2. There was a change in offensive philosophy late in the season, when we needed to win out to make the playoffs. I think JC could have done just as good.

3. Collins played in Saunders offense for many years, of course he should have had a broader comprehension of the playbook.

4. Campbell has far superior skills compared to Collins. JC has a much stronger arm and has far better scrambling and running abilities.

5. Campbell is a young 1st rounder, Collins is old and close to retirement.

6. The QB guru and head coach has recognized the superior qualities in JC and named him the starter within a week of his arrival.

No need to hope being wrong, your post IS wrong.

VetSkinsFan wrote:Well, let's just lay it out like this


Collins is not the freakin starter and WON'T be the starter this season barring a JC injury, so all this WWCD(What Would Collins DO) is a moot point. We might as well start talking about bringing LaVar back again....

Or maybe Brunell Rolling Eyes

brad7686 wrote:

John Manfreda wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

John Manfreda wrote:

riggofan wrote:I'd like to see Redskins fans not even start with this argument.

Should we start the 37 year old guy or our young first round draft pick now in his third year? I don't know. Which option gives us the best chance of finally securing a long term franchise QB?

He is in his fourth year. Rookie, than came off the bench for Brunel, last year. This is his 4th year. To be honest if Campell doesn't perform this year and take the next step, I am not sure if he ever will. I know all that system stuff, but facts are Big Ben won a superbowl his soph. year, Tom Brady won a superbowl his second year, Eli won a superbowl while he was young, we threw Ramsey under the table his third year and he went through a lot more crap than Campell. If JC performs this year like he did last year, we need to bring in a Qb to compete with JC for the starting job. This year though we should start JC and see how he does, what he does early we will see, than go from there.

I was with you until you got to Eli. Eli still hasn't developed, at least as far as qb rating goes. Honestly, I am fine with campbell not turning into brady. Brady may be the best qb ever. On a positive note, there are a lot more young qbs that are not doing as well as campbell in comparison to ones that are doing better. And other than ey, Campbell has had absolutely nothing to throw to.

First of all, about Campell having nothing to throw to ur wrong. Moss has had success with Pennington and Brunell. He has overthrown Moss on numerous occasions. Oh yeah, he has had success with Todd Collins, three qb's have had success with him, so don't give me this he is too short crap. Randel El started for the Steelers when they won the superbowl. He didn't have great recievers to throw too, but if ur a good qb u can complete passes and have a good rating with these recievers. Look at Manning's recievers this year? Manning has done one thing though that Campell hasn't, he has shown he can win. JC has not done that. JC has a 8-12 record, I don't care what his rating is, I want him to show me he can lead. When I watched Campell this year I did not see a leader, I saw a guy that was big, strong, fast legs, but he had accuracy and timming issues, and he wasn't a leader. He threw a lot of interceptions, but so did Brett Favre, but Favre is a leader. Some of Campell's mistakes I think he will continue to make, but I don't think he has shown he can be a leader.

Well if moss can only succeed under noodle arms like pennington, brunell, and collins, then good riddance. If the ball has to fall softly into his arms, and still half the time he still won't catch it, whats the point of having him around? The fact of the matter is that unless he gets open downfield, he is useless. He can't beat the bump, he can't catch, and he can't win a jump ball. While useful at times, Moss and El are not receivers you build your offense around. They are complimentary pieces used for screen plays or deep balls. They will not consistenly move the chains. As for Eli, he has Plax, and still had a pretty rough rating in the regular season. He did well in the playoffs though, I will give him that.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

John Manfreda wrote:

BnGhog wrote:

John Manfreda wrote:Why did we have a bad red zone offense?
Was it lack of possesion reciever?
Was it Campell inability to make quick reads?
Well this year we got Kelley, Thomas, and Davis big targets. If u say there rookies we got Mix who Campell loves. This year we will find out if it was the Qb or the Wr's. I look forward to seeing what the real problem was. He has no exscuse this year.

2 in 3 redzone attempts, were running plays, to CP, to Sellers, to Betts. JC didn't get as many chances as you seem to think. Is it JC's fault too when the RBs can't punch it in?

If JC is not the answer, Collins is not the answer either. We would just have to draft another.

U can say what u want, but u can't ignore the fact that when Collins came in, our redzone problems dissapeared. I am not saying Campell won't do it this year, I am just saying u can't ignore his performance. I know he knows the system, he knew everything, but fact is u still have to make the throw, u still have to make the read, the system didn't make the throw for him, the system didn't move around in the pocket for him. Knowing the system does help, but u still have to make the play. We don't have to draft another, we can trade for Derek Anderson. I think this is a make or break season for Campell, people can say what they want but remember this isn't Jim Zorn's guy if he doesn't play well, Jim Zorn will probably want to bring in his own Qb. I don't think Jim Zorn is going to be as patient with JC as Gibbs is. What did we learn from all of our coaching changes. Norv to Marty translated in Jeff George to Tony Banks ( I know, but fact is there still was a Qb change), Marty to Steve translated into Banks for Flordia guys and Ramsey, Steve to Gibbs translated into Ramsey for Brunell to JC. Head coaches want their own Qb's, Zorn is probably no different.

For Christ's sake, it's CAMPBELL. Nothing worse than slaughtering your team's players names. It's not that freakin hard to get right.

SkinsFreak wrote:

John Manfreda wrote:U can say what u want, but u can't ignore the fact that when Collins came in, our redzone problems dissapeared.

You're not the first to make that claim, but I'm of the opinion that facts are being overlooked. Gibbs was notoriously conservative, and admittedly even more so this past season. During the first half of the season, play calling played a major role in the lack of production in the red zone and TD's thrown to WR's. How many times were we in the red zone and all Gibbs wanted to do was attempt to muscle up and run the ball in. He occasionally threw to a TE, but for the most part, he simply tried to pound the ball into the endzone. Defenses knew that was Gibbs' historical philosophy and were ready for it... every time.

By the time JC got hurt and Collins stepped in late in the season, we were in a "must win" scenario. Therefore, the offense opened up and Gibbs wasn't as conservative as he previously was. The play calling changed as they needed to win all of their remaining games to make the playoffs. I absolutely agree Collins had a greater understanding of Saunders offense, but he had played in it and studied it for a decade.

The Skins were in a must win situation and relinquished their notorious conservatism. I believe this was a major factor in Collins success at the end of the season.

Good riddence, okay fine, name one reciever that has had success with Cambell, I thought so.

John Manfreda wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

John Manfreda wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

John Manfreda wrote:

riggofan wrote:I'd like to see Redskins fans not even start with this argument.

Should we start the 37 year old guy or our young first round draft pick now in his third year? I don't know. Which option gives us the best chance of finally securing a long term franchise QB?

He is in his fourth year. Rookie, than came off the bench for Brunel, last year. This is his 4th year. To be honest if Campell doesn't perform this year and take the next step, I am not sure if he ever will. I know all that system stuff, but facts are Big Ben won a superbowl his soph. year, Tom Brady won a superbowl his second year, Eli won a superbowl while he was young, we threw Ramsey under the table his third year and he went through a lot more crap than Campell. If JC performs this year like he did last year, we need to bring in a Qb to compete with JC for the starting job. This year though we should start JC and see how he does, what he does early we will see, than go from there.

I was with you until you got to Eli. Eli still hasn't developed, at least as far as qb rating goes. Honestly, I am fine with campbell not turning into brady. Brady may be the best qb ever. On a positive note, there are a lot more young qbs that are not doing as well as campbell in comparison to ones that are doing better. And other than ey, Campbell has had absolutely nothing to throw to.

First of all, about Campell having nothing to throw to ur wrong. Moss has had success with Pennington and Brunell. He has overthrown Moss on numerous occasions. Oh yeah, he has had success with Todd Collins, three qb's have had success with him, so don't give me this he is too short crap. Randel El started for the Steelers when they won the superbowl. He didn't have great recievers to throw too, but if ur a good qb u can complete passes and have a good rating with these recievers. Look at Manning's recievers this year? Manning has done one thing though that Campell hasn't, he has shown he can win. JC has not done that. JC has a 8-12 record, I don't care what his rating is, I want him to show me he can lead. When I watched Campell this year I did not see a leader, I saw a guy that was big, strong, fast legs, but he had accuracy and timming issues, and he wasn't a leader. He threw a lot of interceptions, but so did Brett Favre, but Favre is a leader. Some of Campell's mistakes I think he will continue to make, but I don't think he has shown he can be a leader.

Well if moss can only succeed under noodle arms like pennington, brunell, and collins, then good riddance. If the ball has to fall softly into his arms, and still half the time he still won't catch it, whats the point of having him around? The fact of the matter is that unless he gets open downfield, he is useless. He can't beat the bump, he can't catch, and he can't win a jump ball. While useful at times, Moss and El are not receivers you build your offense around. They are complimentary pieces used for screen plays or deep balls. They will not consistenly move the chains. As for Eli, he has Plax, and still had a pretty rough rating in the regular season. He did well in the playoffs though, I will give him that.

U don't need to have a strong arm to be good, and Collins arm isn't weak. Its not strong, but its not weak. Good riddence, okay fine, name one reciever that has had success with Cambell, I thought so. ey does not count TE. In Moss's probowl season he caught a lot of screens, by the way he was overthrown a lot this year. He has won jump all's before Vikings, Giants. I am sorry, if he has done well if every Qb he has had, and Cambell hasn't had success with any reciever, I am not blaming the reciever. He did drop some balls, but he was also overthrown a lot.

John Manfreda wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

John Manfreda wrote:

BnGhog wrote:

John Manfreda wrote:Why did we have a bad red zone offense?
Was it lack of possesion reciever?
Was it Campell inability to make quick reads?
Well this year we got Kelley, Thomas, and Davis big targets. If u say there rookies we got Mix who Campell loves. This year we will find out if it was the Qb or the Wr's. I look forward to seeing what the real problem was. He has no exscuse this year.

2 in 3 redzone attempts, were running plays, to CP, to Sellers, to Betts. JC didn't get as many chances as you seem to think. Is it JC's fault too when the RBs can't punch it in?

If JC is not the answer, Collins is not the answer either. We would just have to draft another.

U can say what u want, but u can't ignore the fact that when Collins came in, our redzone problems dissapeared. I am not saying Campell won't do it this year, I am just saying u can't ignore his performance. I know he knows the system, he knew everything, but fact is u still have to make the throw, u still have to make the read, the system didn't make the throw for him, the system didn't move around in the pocket for him. Knowing the system does help, but u still have to make the play. We don't have to draft another, we can trade for Derek Anderson. I think this is a make or break season for Campell, people can say what they want but remember this isn't Jim Zorn's guy if he doesn't play well, Jim Zorn will probably want to bring in his own Qb. I don't think Jim Zorn is going to be as patient with JC as Gibbs is. What did we learn from all of our coaching changes. Norv to Marty translated in Jeff George to Tony Banks ( I know, but fact is there still was a Qb change), Marty to Steve translated into Banks for Flordia guys and Ramsey, Steve to Gibbs translated into Ramsey for Brunell to JC. Head coaches want their own Qb's, Zorn is probably no different.

For Christ's sake, it's CAMPBELL. Nothing worse than slaughtering your team's players names. It's not that freakin hard to get right.

quit crying, people constantly mispell and mispronounce MY NAME and I don't get offended.

For Christ's sake, it's CAMPBELL. Nothing worse than slaughtering your team's players names. It's not that freakin hard to get right.

Countertrey wrote:

For Christ's sake, it's CAMPBELL. Nothing worse than slaughtering your team's players names. It's not that freakin hard to get right.

If a person can't spell "you", why would you expect them to spell something even more complex?

Countertrey wrote:

For Christ's sake, it's CAMPBELL. Nothing worse than slaughtering your team's players names. It's not that freakin hard to get right.

If a person can't spell "you", why would you expect them to spell something even more complex?

brad7686 wrote:

John Manfreda wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

John Manfreda wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

John Manfreda wrote:

riggofan wrote:I'd like to see Redskins fans not even start with this argument.

Should we start the 37 year old guy or our young first round draft pick now in his third year? I don't know. Which option gives us the best chance of finally securing a long term franchise QB?

He is in his fourth year. Rookie, than came off the bench for Brunel, last year. This is his 4th year. To be honest if Campell doesn't perform this year and take the next step, I am not sure if he ever will. I know all that system stuff, but facts are Big Ben won a superbowl his soph. year, Tom Brady won a superbowl his second year, Eli won a superbowl while he was young, we threw Ramsey under the table his third year and he went through a lot more crap than Campell. If JC performs this year like he did last year, we need to bring in a Qb to compete with JC for the starting job. This year though we should start JC and see how he does, what he does early we will see, than go from there.

I was with you until you got to Eli. Eli still hasn't developed, at least as far as qb rating goes. Honestly, I am fine with campbell not turning into brady. Brady may be the best qb ever. On a positive note, there are a lot more young qbs that are not doing as well as campbell in comparison to ones that are doing better. And other than ey, Campbell has had absolutely nothing to throw to.

First of all, about Campell having nothing to throw to ur wrong. Moss has had success with Pennington and Brunell. He has overthrown Moss on numerous occasions. Oh yeah, he has had success with Todd Collins, three qb's have had success with him, so don't give me this he is too short crap. Randel El started for the Steelers when they won the superbowl. He didn't have great recievers to throw too, but if ur a good qb u can complete passes and have a good rating with these recievers. Look at Manning's recievers this year? Manning has done one thing though that Campell hasn't, he has shown he can win. JC has not done that. JC has a 8-12 record, I don't care what his rating is, I want him to show me he can lead. When I watched Campell this year I did not see a leader, I saw a guy that was big, strong, fast legs, but he had accuracy and timming issues, and he wasn't a leader. He threw a lot of interceptions, but so did Brett Favre, but Favre is a leader. Some of Campell's mistakes I think he will continue to make, but I don't think he has shown he can be a leader.

Well if moss can only succeed under noodle arms like pennington, brunell, and collins, then good riddance. If the ball has to fall softly into his arms, and still half the time he still won't catch it, whats the point of having him around? The fact of the matter is that unless he gets open downfield, he is useless. He can't beat the bump, he can't catch, and he can't win a jump ball. While useful at times, Moss and El are not receivers you build your offense around. They are complimentary pieces used for screen plays or deep balls. They will not consistenly move the chains. As for Eli, he has Plax, and still had a pretty rough rating in the regular season. He did well in the playoffs though, I will give him that.

U don't need to have a strong arm to be good, and Collins arm isn't weak. Its not strong, but its not weak. Good riddence, okay fine, name one reciever that has had success with Cambell, I thought so. ey does not count TE. In Moss's probowl season he caught a lot of screens, by the way he was overthrown a lot this year. He has won jump all's before Vikings, Giants. I am sorry, if he has done well if every Qb he has had, and Cambell hasn't had success with any reciever, I am not blaming the reciever. He did drop some balls, but he was also overthrown a lot.

How does ey not count? Do you think the skins want the TE to be the focal point of their offense? No, but they have no other options. The rest of their receivers are being pushed around by corners and safeties all day.

John Manfreda wrote:

Countertrey wrote:

For Christ's sake, it's CAMPBELL. Nothing worse than slaughtering your team's players names. It's not that freakin hard to get right.

If a person can't spell "you", why would you expect them to spell something even more complex?

I say u, instead of you because it's easier to type. When one see's u, sound it out, it sounds the same as you.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

John Manfreda wrote:

Countertrey wrote:

For Christ's sake, it's CAMPBELL. Nothing worse than slaughtering your team's players names. It's not that freakin hard to get right.

If a person can't spell "you", why would you expect them to spell something even more complex?

I say u, instead of you because it's easier to type. When one see's u, sound it out, it sounds the same as you.

How would one explais see's then? The sound it out theory doesn't count here.....

John Manfreda wrote:

Countertrey wrote:

For Christ's sake, it's CAMPBELL. Nothing worse than slaughtering your team's players names. It's not that freakin hard to get right.

If a person can't spell "you", why would you expect them to spell something even more complex?

I say u, instead of you because it's easier to type. When one see's u, sound it out, it sounds the same as you.

Countertrey wrote:

John Manfreda wrote:

Countertrey wrote:

For Christ's sake, it's CAMPBELL. Nothing worse than slaughtering your team's players names. It's not that freakin hard to get right.

If a person can't spell "you", why would you expect them to spell something even more complex?

I say u, instead of you because it's easier to type. When one see's u, sound it out, it sounds the same as you.

Fine. Save two whole keystrokes AND annoy the adults, all at the same time. How cool is that?

Countertrey wrote:

John Manfreda wrote:

Countertrey wrote:

For Christ's sake, it's CAMPBELL. Nothing worse than slaughtering your team's players names. It's not that freakin hard to get right.

If a person can't spell "you", why would you expect them to spell something even more complex?

I say u, instead of you because it's easier to type. When one see's u, sound it out, it sounds the same as you.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Countertrey wrote:

John Manfreda wrote:

Countertrey wrote:

For Christ's sake, it's CAMPBELL. Nothing worse than slaughtering your team's players names. It's not that freakin hard to get right.

If a person can't spell "you", why would you expect them to spell something even more complex?

I say u, instead of you because it's easier to type. When one see's u, sound it out, it sounds the same as you.

Fine. Save two whole keystrokes AND annoy the adults, all at the same time. How cool is that?

Yeah, well this is a forum, not IM, so it doesn't count

John Manfreda wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Countertrey wrote:

John Manfreda wrote:

Countertrey wrote:

For Christ's sake, it's CAMPBELL. Nothing worse than slaughtering your team's players names. It's not that freakin hard to get right.

If a person can't spell "you", why would you expect them to spell something even more complex?

I say u, instead of you because it's easier to type. When one see's u, sound it out, it sounds the same as you.

Fine. Save two whole keystrokes AND annoy the adults, all at the same time. How cool is that?

Reduced to grade school insults. I see you're out of ammo.

Yeah, well this is a forum, not IM, so it doesn't count

no one thinks your funny, and your really gay.

John Manfreda wrote:no one thinks your funny, and your really gay.