The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Redskin in Canada wrote:2007 Stats:

Code: Select all

RANK   NAME             YDS     YPG     RUSH   RUSH YPG   PASS     PASS YPG   PTS   PTS/G
15     Washington       5334    333.4   1871    116.9     3463      216.4     334   20.9

21     Tennessee        4987    311.7   2109    131.8     2878      179.9     301   18.8

I hope it works better here than it did in Tennessee last year.

That's not really a fair comparison. Our o-line and o-line coach are much better than the Titans. And without question, Portis and Betts are far better backs than Lendale White, Chris Henry and Chris Brown.

I think that both Sherman Smith AND Stump Mitchell will contribute significantly to the further development of our RB's current skill sets and will improve upon and refine their abilities in this new offense. Don't know for sure, but I gotta think Portis is thrilled about this new offense. He'll go back to what he does best and his role as a receiver will increase significantly.

Redskin in Canada wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote: By all reports, Zorn, Smith and Mitchell appear to be character guys with a lot of loyalty for each other, just what the Skins needed.

This is true and I agree with it. And character is the foundation to build any team.

Having said so, ...

... I hope that:

brad7686 wrote:well if you have a pass guru as the HC, and a RB guru as the OC, that can probably help to make up for rampant inexperience.

actually comes through. We'll see.

Was that a positive and optimistic response from RiC?????

Holy crap, somebody quick, mark this day down for history!

SkinsFreak wrote:That's not really a fair comparison. Our o-line and o-line coach are much better than the Titans.

I disagree. Particularly, the terribly injured Skins OL this season.

I think that ...

Don't know for sure, but I gotta think ...

That is all we can do for now. It will be interesting to see how the offseason develops. But, I have to tell you:

- You seem to be so optimistic that you almost make it sound as if immediate impact will be apparent.

- I am so pessimistic that I do not think that improvement will be apparent (if all goes well) in two to three seasons.

Reality may be somewhere in between. But there is no denying that a new system, what? the 3th, 4th? (I lost count) offense in the life of Jason Campbell and even a larger number for some other players, will immediate yield immediate results.

I am not taking any bets against Peyton Manning and the Colts in August if you really wanna know.

UK Skins Fan wrote:I'm not sure that I'm enthused by the fact that he needed some "persuasion" to come to DC ...

What? You think Fisher warned him about the risk of joining that illustrious list of name plates in the cemetery for NFL coaches in the US Capital?

Redskin in Canada wrote:

UK Skins Fan wrote:I'm not sure that I'm enthused by the fact that he needed some "persuasion" to come to DC ...

What? You think Fisher warned him about the risk of joining that illustrious list of name plates in the cemetery for NFL coaches in the US Capital?

Yeah, being a Redskins coach really hurt Al or GW. Oh, wait they were out of a job for less than a week, maybe their not good examples. How about Marty. No he got a job right after the Skins too. Maybe SS - no him either. Maybe Norv - two HC jobs after the Skins.

I'm all out. Maybe you can tell me who hurt their careers by coming to the Redskins!

You can make an argument that GW hurt his career by staying w/the Skins, but that is a different story.

skinsfan#33 wrote:Yeah, being a Redskins coach really hurt Al or GW. Oh, wait they were out of a job for less than a week, maybe their not good examples. How about Marty. No he got a job right after the Skins too. Maybe SS - no him either. Maybe Norv - two HC jobs after the Skins.

I'm all out. Maybe you can tell me who hurt their careers by coming to the Redskins!

Maybe I missed a Division, Conference or Super Bowl championship somewhere! Who among them succeeded here?

How many appearances in playoffs, just appearances, has this team had over the last decade or so? I must be missing something here.

Nothing wrong with the coaches. You are right. ALL of them have found employment and some even success in their careers ...

ELSEWHERE.

Well, I don't think any of the defensive coaches have done badly by being in Washington over recent years. Williams, Lewis, and Ray Rhodes all enhanced their reputations, I believe. You could even go back to Ron Meeks - he did well enough to move up the ladder elsewhere after his time in Washington. Dale Lindsay probably spoilt his reputation somewhat, but he couldn't blame that on his environment. Olivadotti is making a good reputation for himself during his time in Washington - and I hope he stays for a long time.

Meanwhile, all these coaches have been paid very well at the same time that they have been enhancing those reputations.

Now, on offence, people probably haven't done so well. Spurrier turned out to be useless, but it wasn't being in Washington that made him useless as an NFL coach - he just wasn't good enough. Norv Turner's rep as an offensive coordinator remained intact, even though his mediocrity as a head coach kept him away from the top job until San Diego lost their collective minds. Jimmy Raye? Well, we'd never heard of him before he came to Washington, and we've not heard from him since. Al Saunders certainly didn't enhance his reputation whilst here, but I'm not sure who he can blame for that - there was enough talent for him to work with, although depth was certainly an issue. He might have suffered from "interference" from Gibbs, but not from anybody in the front office, as far as we know (well, until he got released anyway!).

What I'm saying is that Washington is hardly a graveyard for coaches - many of them do well enough to keep moving up the coaching ladder. Yes, they often do it elsewhere, but it hasn't hurt their careers to be in Washington.

I understand Sherman Smith's reasons for hesitating, and they were family reasons. No way do I believe that a running backs coach was prevaricating over a promotion to offensive coordinator for any other reasons than family ones. It certainly had nothing to do with any cemeteries, real or imagined.

Bloody good Post UK Skins Fan!!

NC43Hog wrote:Bloody good Post UK Skins Fan!!

Well, thanks. You speak bloody good English!

Redskin in Canada wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:That's not really a fair comparison. Our o-line and o-line coach are much better than the Titans.

I disagree. Particularly, the terribly injured Skins OL this season.

Our make-shift o-line, with all the injuries, coached by Buges, was far better than the Titans.

Redskin in Canada wrote:skinsfan#33 wrote:
Yeah, being a Redskins coach really hurt Al or GW. Oh, wait they were out of a job for less than a week, maybe their not good examples. How about Marty. No he got a job right after the Skins too. Maybe SS - no him either. Maybe Norv - two HC jobs after the Skins.

I'm all out. Maybe you can tell me who hurt their careers by coming to the Redskins!
Maybe I missed a Division, Conference or Super Bowl championship somewhere! Who among them succeeded here?

How many appearances in playoffs, just appearances, has this team had over the last decade or so? I must be missing something here. Shocked

Nothing wrong with the coaches. You are right. ALL of them have found employment and some even success in their careers ...

ELSEWHERE.

I just love how you turn every discussion, thought and topic into a dismal and bleek outlook for the Skins. Whatever...

ANYWAY, BACK ON TOPIC...

I am optimistic about this group of coaches and I do think they have a chance to be successful. Zorn, Mitchell and Smith are tight and seem rather motivated. They don't come across as cocky, arrogant know-alls. The fact that Zorn has the charisma and character to bring in Smith and Mitchell is a good sign. Additionally, the fact that Smith and Mitchell have faith in Zorn and wanted to follow him tells me a lot about Zorn as a man and a leader. I like that. Snyder didn't go for the "flashy" hire, and in the end, I actually think he got some good guys here. And that opinion is based solely on the reports, accounts, opinions and credentials of those that know these guys.

NC43Hog wrote:Bloody good Post UK Skins Fan!!

Yeah, I agree. And quite frankly, it's sad you even had to waste your time to point out these obvious facts.

Marketing of an established brand name to a loyal crowd, notwithstanding the results, makes a powerful lemonade.

One by one. Yep, each and every one of you. It is just a matter of time. I will welcome you out of the Dark Side.

wamcma wrote:When I joined this website, it was because I hoped to share and listen to well informed comments by REAL Redskins fans. So hoping to hear or see some worthwhile comment by well informed fans I come back every so often.
Now all I see is a bunch of negative analysis aimed at the management. Nothing but negative complaints and I can only guess these people think they could do better. If so why?
This particular thread is a bunch of "crap". Joe Gibbs is the best thing to happen to Skins ever. He has left a positive imprint on my team and I am grateful for his devotion.
Who are these neophyte fans anyway. Why not bring something positive to this great venue.

...and yet you find a way to come back and not only be negative, but take the thread off topic yet again


Of course you were'nt so positive back then....
wamcma wrote in 04:

What you see here is proof that you build and not buy your way into the Superbowl. The superstars are letting you down.

But I digress...glad to see Danny is letting Zorn make some decisions!!

Champsturf wrote:For real though, they have Vince Young and garbage receivers. I think it will be MUCH better here.

Good point.

OK, the Gibbs/Saunders/Coryell/Bugel offense is out. Gone.

Maybe the Zorn offense will be better for these players, but somehow, please remember that we are about to see an entirely new offense.

Which players fit? I don't know. Does Campbell fit? We'll find out sooner or later. I say "later" because he'll have to learn another offense. What about ey? Does he fit? We know the OL had some horrific injures, that some reserves stepped in, but do they have to un-learn what Joe Bugel taught them? Will the organization draft one or two good linemen?

Even if Zorn is a QB magician, the Redskins need a fast receiver who is about 6 foot 2 and about 210 pounds, with great hands. Unless they persuade Art Monk to un-retire, can they continue with the second version of the Smurfs?

Hey, I think the smurfs, and the fun bunch were pretty good. And I'd take short little Garry Clark in a NY minute over 90% of the receivers playing today.

As for Campbell fitting Zorn's offense....he can only benefit from the change, as I think he was still struggling with Saunder's offense when he went down. One of the two had to go.

To be honest, I think Saunders offense was too much for Campbell, maybe too much much for anyone. I'm of the Lombardi school of thought.....keep it simple, learn to do a few things great, and dare the opposition to stop you. If you're going to look to a particular philosophy, I think Lombardi would be a better bet than Saunders.

One thing I'll be happy to see is the philosophy of the west coast offense being more aggressive, and geared toward spreading the field. I'm sure that is going to open up things for Portis in the running game, and give Campbell more targets to find.

Those single and two wide sets held the Redskins back IMHO.

Agreed, the Smurfs were pretty good, considering that only Charlie Brown was a regular receiver. They really suffered when Art Monk, member of the Fun Bunch, got hurt just before the '82 season playoffs.

Incidentally, I'd take Gary Clark over any current Redskin receiver, but only if the team could pair him with the next Art Monk.

*

Didn't the Walsh variety of the West Coast offense depend on timed routes, as well as the ability of the QB to read the defense and sense who would be open? Saunders might have been a Coryell guy, but it seemed to me that the offense worked better at the end of last year because Collins was so much better at reading and throwing the timing passes.

For the rest...Portis is built more like Roger Craig than Riggins/Rogers/Riggs, and he might fit with Zorn-ism. I've seem Portis catch passes, and he's a fine blocker -- not quite as good as Larry Brown, who belongs in the Hall of Fame, but then no RB in a Redskin uniform has been as good as Larry Brown. To be almost as good as Brown is saying a lot.

welch wrote:- not quite as good as Larry Brown, who belongs in the Hall of Fame, but then no RB in a Redskin uniform has been as good as Larry Brown. To be almost as good as Brown is saying a lot.

<----------

Couldn't have said it better.

welch wrote:OK, the Gibbs/Saunders/Coryell/Bugel offense is out. Gone.

We know the OL had some horrific injures, that some reserves stepped in, but do they have to un-learn what Joe Bugel taught them? Will the organization draft one or two good linemen?

I thought Buges was staying.

I thought Buges was staying.

Staying, yes, but with what authority? No Gibbs, different offense...does Bugel fit into Zorn's idea of how to coach an OL?

IMO Buges will know if he can help this team and he will be here if he thinks he can be of assistance - WCO or not this is a guy who understands all the aspects of an offensive line - he will know if he can make our guys be as good as they need to be or even better than they are - I'm not worried about this guy - he has forgotten more than most offensive line coaches will ever know.

And I think many are forgetting that the offense evolved to more zone blocking schemes last year, prevalent in the WCO. That's a major change from Gibbs' blocking philosophy. Buges damn near performed miracles with that make-shift line last year.

Bob 0119 wrote:I'm waiting for the Headline:

"Mr. Smith goes to Washington"

And here you have it:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/9931 ... ton-180208

...and I'm hoping Bugel stays as OL coach. Just wonder if Zorn will decide to go with someone he knows.

I expect, though that Bugel will stay on as some sort of consultant even if Zorn or Smith decides to pick a different OL coach. Give Snyder his due: as much as he plays at being the GM, Snyder seems to have idolized the 1980's Redskins. If you're going to pick a group to idolize, who else is better?