Official Post-Game Thread: WAS vs NY

[SkinsFreak]

Ok I know its talked about a lot on the Gameday Threads but can someone please explain to me why we implement a Prevent Offense every single time we have the lead. I think I speak for everyone here when I say, after we are up by 10 or more you can predict our plays as if someone stole the answers to a pop quiz.

Does anyone know if this is a gibbs thing a saunders thing or a our players can't execute thing... I absolutely hate being scared if we can hold on to win during the middle of the 3rd quarter because I know that we have stopped trying to score points completely.

The theory for using the run when you’ve got a large lead (7 points or more) is to accomplish two things. Limit turnovers and burn clock.

Passing not only risks a turnover, but if the ball is incomplete, it stops the clock. If you come out and throw three incompletions, you’ve barely burned up any time, and now you have to punt. If you run three running plays, and don’t make the first down, you still have to punt, but you’ve also burned up 2-3 minutes of game clock (40 seconds of play clock x 3 downs + length of time of each play). You generally want to keep your runner away from the sidelines, because the clock stops if he gets knocked out of bounds.

That’s the theory anyway. It’s not just a JG or AS thing, it’s pretty common with most teams (except maybe the Patriots who can and usually do, score at will).

The only thing that are unique to JG and AS about this kind of clock management offense, is that most teams wait until the fourth quarter to use it, while we seem to start doing it from the opening drive of the third quarter.

Bob pretty much sums up the philosophy here. There's no guarantee that passing the ball gets 1st downs late in the game, just ask Eli. They should have just kept pounding Jacobs last night instead of trying to throw to him.

If we were stopping the clock and turning it over late in a game with a lead, you'd all be complaining that we aren't running the ball to secure the win. By the way, how did our last drive that ended the game go last night? And we did pass the ball on 1st down a few times early in the 4th quarter last night. Not trying to be sarcastic, but the philosophy does in fact work, a lot of the time.

[SkinsFreak]

It hasn't and doesn't work for us, yesterday being no exception. We don't have the kind of defense that it up to the job. We've been pathetic all year on late D because our players are old and beat up and we don't have adequate replacements. Denying reality is dumb machismo and also evidence of the ego of a group of coaches who want to win by brilliant moves. They should lighten up and let the players play.

Gibbs would bench Favre. I guarantee it, just like Williams benched LaVar and let other top players get away.

Sorry, but I strongly disagree. And Bob was merely answering a question regarding the philosophy of running the ball late in a game, not justifying it.

[1niksder]

I can't answer your question but I can tell you I cursed the playcalling from the middle of the 3rd quarter on. It made absolute no sense and could easily have cost the game. I give Gibbs and Co. no credit at all for their playcalling and strategy. It seemed to be just as stupid and hard headed as its been all season.

He got the "W" but more to your point he took a 13 point lead into the 3rd quarter and came out of it up by 12, what's the problem. If you run the ball and it works and the other team can move the ball only a fool would change whats working.

Of course, if they knew beforehand the Gints were going to drop nine passes, one could argue it was a good move. As is-- stupid for Sunday's game and stupid for next Sunday's, when we'll need an intact and rested defense.

I'm sure he didn't count on the drops (I counted 10 in all) but with 22 mile an hour winds swirling around, who thought anybody would put it 52 times.

BTW some of those drops were due to "footsteps" after the LL hit

It hasn't and doesn't work for us, yesterday being no exception. We don't have the kind of defense that it up to the job. We've been pathetic all year on late D because our players are old and beat up and we don't have adequate replacements. Denying reality is dumb machismo and also evidence of the ego of a group of coaches who want to win by brilliant moves. They should lighten up and let the players play.

The Giants had the ball 5 times in the second half the Redskins defense gave up one TD and the Gints turned it over on downs twice. As far as replacements they don't have you must be taking about guys like DL Alexander who made the team as a d-lineman but as been forced to play on the O-line. There are many backup line that only get one tackle. How many in the league are playing both ways? Maybe you're talking about replacing Sean Taylor, well GW moved LaRon back there and he looks to be doing his job. They had to move Doughty down into his spot. He did have six tackles and 4 assist. Was the replacement they don't have on the Line, at linebacker, or in the defensive backfield? It would help if you weren't so general in you statement of lack of depth.

I saw Griffin go down and Williams sent in Montgomery instead of Goldston and when Griff was ready to go GW stayed with AM, he later caused a turnover. I saw Shawn Springs playing saftey when Prioleau went out, Torrence might not have had a great game at corner but he had five tackles and wasn't beat in coverage. I guess you didn't see Rocky go down and the defense not miss a beat with Khary and HB? These guys step up every chance that's given to them. It makes me wonder, What games have you been watching?

Gibbs would bench Favre. I guarantee it, just like Williams benched LaVar and let other top players get away.

This explains why most of those post made, made no sense... Gibbs would love to have a QB as old as he is with a big arm, whose stopped throw picks on the regular bases. You really need to let that LaVar thing go... that job has already been claimed by another board member, it's his losing battle so let him continue to lose it. The only guy that "got away" went to Denver but that to is another members pet peeve.

[Mursilis]

That's great and all, but as they say in the investment business, past performance is not an indicator of future success.

I don't think that really applies to football.

It most certainly does. Think about when Gibbs came back - most 'skins fans, myself included, assumed Gibbs would have this team back into the Super Bowl by now, just based on how great he was in the past. If someone back then had suggested Gibbs wouldn't even be at .500 by late in his fourth season back, they'd have been laughed out the door. Yet here we are.

[Redskin in Canada]

I saw Griffin go down and Williams sent in Montgomery instead of Goldston and when Griff was ready to go GW stayed with AM, he later caused a turnover. I saw Shawn Springs playing saftey when Prioleau went out, Torrence might not have had a great game at corner but he had five tackles and wasn't beat in coverage. I guess you didn't see Rocky go down and the defense not miss a beat with Khary and HB? These guys step up every chance that's given to them. It makes me wonder, What games have you been watching?

1nik, come on man, since when can you cure endemic pessimism and chronic depression with some sound arguments?

Once people make the CHOICE to be negative and destructive even in light of a great result against a difficult team in a tough venue on a horrible day playing well with many backups in a game that MOST analysts predicted a loss for us, things do not change in a manic depressive EVER.

But keep on trying, you might earn the title of psychotherapist around here.

[SkinsFreak]

I saw Griffin go down and Williams sent in Montgomery instead of Goldston and when Griff was ready to go GW stayed with AM, he later caused a turnover. I saw Shawn Springs playing saftey when Prioleau went out, Torrence might not have had a great game at corner but he had five tackles and wasn't beat in coverage. I guess you didn't see Rocky go down and the defense not miss a beat with Khary and HB? These guys step up every chance that's given to them. It makes me wonder, What games have you been watching?

1nik, come on man, since when can you cure endemic pessimism and chronic depression with some sound arguments?

Once people make the CHOICE to be negative and destructive even in light of a great result against a difficult team in a tough venue on a horrible day playing well with many backups in a game that MOST analysts predicted a loss for us, things do not change in a manic depressive EVER.

But keep on trying, you might earn the title of psychotherapist around here.

Amen to that...

[PulpExposure]

I saw Griffin go down and Williams sent in Montgomery instead of Goldston and when Griff was ready to go GW stayed with AM, he later caused a turnover. .

I'm totally with you on the tenor, tone, and point of your post except for this one niggling part.

As far as I'm aware, AM started the game with Griff. It's perhaps more accurate to say that when Griff went down, he put in Alexander.

[TeeterSalad]

Good game, Great win!

[crazyhorse1]

I can't answer your question but I can tell you I cursed the playcalling from the middle of the 3rd quarter on. It made absolute no sense and could easily have cost the game. I give Gibbs and Co. no credit at all for their playcalling and strategy. It seemed to be just as stupid and hard headed as its been all season.

He got the "W" but more to your point he took a 13 point lead into the 3rd quarter and came out of it up by 12, what's the problem. If you run the ball and it works and the other team can move the ball only a fool would change whats working.

Of course, if they knew beforehand the Gints were going to drop nine passes, one could argue it was a good move. As is-- stupid for Sunday's game and stupid for next Sunday's, when we'll need an intact and rested defense.

I'm sure he didn't count on the drops (I counted 10 in all) but with 22 mile an hour winds swirling around, who thought anybody would put it 52 times.

BTW some of those drops were due to "footsteps" after the LL hit

It hasn't and doesn't work for us, yesterday being no exception. We don't have the kind of defense that it up to the job. We've been pathetic all year on late D because our players are old and beat up and we don't have adequate replacements. Denying reality is dumb machismo and also evidence of the ego of a group of coaches who want to win by brilliant moves. They should lighten up and let the players play.

The Giants had the ball 5 times in the second half the Redskins defense gave up one TD and the Gints turned it over on downs twice. As far as replacements they don't have you must be taking about guys like DL Alexander who made the team as a d-lineman but as been forced to play on the O-line. There are many backup line that only get one tackle. How many in the league are playing both ways? Maybe you're talking about replacing Sean Taylor, well GW moved LaRon back there and he looks to be doing his job. They had to move Doughty down into his spot. He did have six tackles and 4 assist. Was the replacement they don't have on the Line, at linebacker, or in the defensive backfield? It would help if you weren't so general in you statement of lack of depth.

I saw Griffin go down and Williams sent in Montgomery instead of Goldston and when Griff was ready to go GW stayed with AM, he later caused a turnover. I saw Shawn Springs playing saftey when Prioleau went out, Torrence might not have had a great game at corner but he had five tackles and wasn't beat in coverage. I guess you didn't see Rocky go down and the defense not miss a beat with Khary and HB? These guys step up every chance that's given to them. It makes me wonder, What games have you been watching?

Gibbs would bench Favre. I guarantee it, just like Williams benched LaVar and let other top players get away.

This explains why most of those post made, made no sense... Gibbs would love to have a QB as old as he is with a big arm, whose stopped throw picks on the regular bases. You really need to let that LaVar thing go... that job has already been claimed by another board member, it's his losing battle so let him continue to lose it. The only guy that "got away" went to Denver but that to is another members pet peeve.

The first string D line consists of Daniels, Griffin, Montgomery, and Carter. That's not the lineup we were able to keep on the field most of the game.

What game were you watching. The Giants ran up and down on the field against us in the second half. They had an easy field goal blown, a certain TD pass dropped by Toomer and a whole series of ludicrous errors that kept them from scoring; our defense demonstrated in the second half that it could not stop them. We had to use Torrance, who was terrible, and Rocky and Griffin, were on the bench. I don't know where Golston was and Daniels made 1 tackle and had to be sat down.

Fletcher, Carter, Montgomery, Smoot. and Landry played well. Not enough. The Giants were rolling and we shut down our offense. Stupid.
We were saved by the wind.

If Fauve had been our QB. Gibbs would still have shut down the offense.

[SkinsFreak]

The first string D line consists of Daniels, Griffin, Montgomery, and Carter. That's not the lineup we were able to keep on the field most of the game.

Oh, you must not be familiar with Williams' coaching style. Williams likes to keep fresh legs on the d-line during the game by rotating players quite often. This is very common around the league, especially on the d-line. Smart coaching.

The defense has played pretty well this year considering all the adversities. You seem to think a defense should be able to stop every team on every play in every game. Yeah, that would be nice, but would also be a fantasy.

[1niksder]

The first string D line consists of Daniels, Griffin, Montgomery, and Carter. That's not the lineup we were able to keep on the field most of the game.

What game were you watching. The Giants ran up and down on the field against us in the second half. They had an easy field goal blown, a certain TD pass dropped by Toomer and a whole series of ludicrous errors that kept them from scoring; our defense demonstrated in the second half that it could not stop them. We had to use Torrance, who was terrible, and Rocky and Griffin, were on the bench. I don't know where Golston was and Daniels made 1 tackle and had to be sat down.

Fletcher, Carter, Montgomery, Smoot. and Landry played well. Not enough. The Giants were rolling and we shut down our offense. Stupid.
We were saved by the wind.

If Fauve had been our QB. Gibbs would still have shut down the offense.

You said they don't have replacements, yet you rattle them off, The Gints went up and down the feild yet they were held to 6 points. You don't have to give the defense credit but you can't have it both ways.

[Bob 0119]

You know, to read some of these posts, you'd think we LOST the game!

[SCSkinsFan]

SC said

Welch - You need to get to more Skins games. You are a perfect 2 - 0 seeing the Skins at the Meadowlands this year.

Yes, but a gut-wrenching 0-1 in Washington...the Bills/Sean Taylor loss.

Added to my RFK game back in high school, I'm also a perfect 0-2 at home.

So....

I know the feeling. My Fed Ex game this year was the Iggles, and the last game ST played. At least I got to see them beat the Pukes there last year. Another win over them, plus beating the Vikes, which is now a must win for us, would be great.

[welch]

another win over them, plus beating the Vikes, which is now a must win for us, would be great.

Just one game...the next one...quoting a historian on the Armada, "what we have done before we can do again". I think that's how the team feels.

Odds? TV predictions? What does that matter when they play the game?