The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

JSPB22 wrote:
Wow, you've really outdone yourself here.
Sentence 1: Hey Jason, take the LaVar Arrington/Brandon Lloyd approach to playing for Joe and see where that gets you!
Sentence 2: Keep doing what you are already doing, and pick up critical first downs to keep the chains moving. (2 scrambles for 31 yards and first downs Vs. the Jets)
Sentence 3: Disregard my last sentence completely. Also, stop fumbling away the ball on purpose. (3 fumbles lost Vs. the Patriots on sacks, 0 lost on sacks the rest of the season - his 1 other lost fumble this season was Vs. the G-strings on an exchange that Portis mishandled.)

roybus14 wrote:Does Jason Campbell have the persona or personality to lead an NFL Team???

Jason Campbell was inserted into the starting line late last season, spent the entire off-season working on Al Saunders play book and his technique. We are eight games into the season and it appears that Jason Campbell's calm presence and demeanor may not be what is really needed for this football team.

Why would you say that Roy?? With this offense seriously struggling, one would think that the QB would show some fire and go after guys and coaches to get this offense going. It's like JC is just happy to be behind center and is just going with the flow.

A few things you don't see from this QB that you see in some of the better QBs around the league:

1. Taking the initiative and huddling with coaches and teammates on the sideline looking at snapshots at what worked, what didn't work, and what he thinks could work. Most of the time, they show JC on the sideline sitting quietly and it's normally one of the other offensive coaches approaching him with snapshots from the previous series. At least I have not seen him huddled with Moss, ARE, ey, etc. looking at snapshots or talking about what did or didn't work. Maybe season ticket holders on the board that have the vantage point of looking at the sideline more than the cameras can chime in.

2. Communicating with his WRs after missed routes or passes on the field. You see guys like Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, and even Clemons talking to and hand gesturing to their WRs on missed plays on the field.

3. No fire or emotion when we get a big play or a bad play. If the O-Line breaks down and he get's sacked or alot of pressure, you don't see him clapping his hands or trying to encourage his linemen to block better. After a big play, you don't see him getting excited and pumping guys up. It's normally the same thing after every play; look to the sideline for the play, and give the "come-in" gesture with his fingers for the guys to huddle up. The good QBs in this league are demanding of their offensive teammates. Brady was shown screaming at his lineman when we got the one sack on him and they were blowing us out.


It's not about how young this guy is and what not. He's been annointed the starting QB job so he needs to start showing something other than going through the motions. If he speaks up in practice and says to Al or Joe, "we need to start going down field more and this offense needs to open up." What are they going to do bench him for speaking his mind? During the game, take a chance and call an audible if you see something different in the defense or you know something will open up because the CB is playing too far back. What's wrong with working more with your WRs on little hand signals and gestures that are "hot reads" and changes their route from a curl to a quick slant? It's like JC is scared to step forward.

It's just my observation..... Your thoughts.......

As for this timing thing....that is a load of bull, and nothing but excuse making. Romo started last year, right off the bench.....timing didn't seem to bother him. Brady has three new receivers and he's lighting up the NFL. Randy Moss did nothing with the Raiders because he didn't have anyone to throw to him, but now look what he's doing? Santana Moss was 2nd in the NFL in 2005 when that no account, weak armed Brunell was throwing to him. Remember the Dallas game.....two bombs, hit in-stride? When has Campbell done this? NEVER

JSPB22 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:What I want from Jason Campbell is to stop doing what he is told, and start doing what he feels he needs to do during a game. Start taking some chances and start scrambling when he sees pressure. Take a sack and dont cough the ball up.

Wow, you've really outdone yourself here.
Sentence 1: Hey Jason, take the LaVar Arrington/Brandon Lloyd approach to playing for Joe and see where that gets you!
Sentence 2: Keep doing what you are already doing, and pick up critical first downs to keep the chains moving. (2 scrambles for 31 yards and first downs Vs. the Jets)
Sentence 3: Disregard my last sentence completely. Also, stop fumbling away the ball on purpose. (3 fumbles lost Vs. the Patriots on sacks, 0 lost on sacks the rest of the season - his 1 other lost fumble this season was Vs. the G-strings on an exchange that Portis mishandled.)

RayNAustin wrote: Remember the Dallas game.....two bombs, hit in-stride? When has Campbell done this? NEVER

HEROHAMO wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:What I want from Jason Campbell is to stop doing what he is told, and start doing what he feels he needs to do during a game. Start taking some chances and start scrambling when he sees pressure. Take a sack and dont cough the ball up.

Wow, you've really outdone yourself here.
Sentence 1: Hey Jason, take the LaVar Arrington/Brandon Lloyd approach to playing for Joe and see where that gets you!
Sentence 2: Keep doing what you are already doing, and pick up critical first downs to keep the chains moving. (2 scrambles for 31 yards and first downs Vs. the Jets)
Sentence 3: Disregard my last sentence completely. Also, stop fumbling away the ball on purpose. (3 fumbles lost Vs. the Patriots on sacks, 0 lost on sacks the rest of the season - his 1 other lost fumble this season was Vs. the G-strings on an exchange that Portis mishandled.)

Every play does not pan out the way it was drawn up. In which case I want JC to make a decision quick and execute.

HEROHAMO wrote:When JC scrambled for a first down, that is exactly what I want out of him.
I assure you the play that was called was not for him to scramble.

HEROHAMO wrote:When a play is busted I would like for him to either throw the ball away

HEROHAMO wrote:take the sack if he has to, but protect the ball

HEROHAMO wrote:or scramble if he has the lane.

HEROHAMO wrote:He did do better in the Jets game , but he still did not throw any TDs and also threw an interception.

HEROHAMO wrote:Yes, he is going through some of the growing pains as a Qb. It does not help that our Oline is still banged up as well. I just hope he breaks out soon. He is due for a monster game. Hopefully that is against our rivals.

CanesSkins26 wrote:Maybe this doesn't deserve it's own thread (that's up the mods) but there have been a lot of posts lately complaining about JC's alleged problems with the deep pass so I figured this would somewhat clear that up. The two glaring misses have been overthrows to Moss. Well Gibbs said today on his radio show, in response to a question about JC's timing with Moss, that because of the leg injuries that Moss had in pre-season and during the season, they are not really able to practice deep routes with him at full speed during practice. So if they can't practice these routes in practice, and only call them in games every weeks games, there is no way that Moss and JC are going to have the type of timing necessary to complete these passes with any sort of consistency.

HEROHAMO wrote:What I want from Jason Campbell is to stop doing what he is told, and start doing what he feels he needs to do during a game. Start taking some chances and start scrambling when he sees pressure. Take a sack and dont cough the ball up.

BnGhog wrote:

RayNAustin wrote: Remember the Dallas game.....two bombs, hit in-stride? When has Campbell done this? NEVER

Just to clarify. Those were not hit in-stride. They were both underthrown AND off target. But lobbed enough Moss came back to them and adjusted. Which is also the reason the defender could not make a play on the ball. The defender was running right with Moss. Moss saw the ball, and pretty much stopped dead in his tracks and changed his direction, leaving the defender in the dust.

RayNAustin wrote:

BnGhog wrote:

RayNAustin wrote: Remember the Dallas game.....two bombs, hit in-stride? When has Campbell done this? NEVER

Just to clarify. Those were not hit in-stride. They were both underthrown AND off target. But lobbed enough Moss came back to them and adjusted. Which is also the reason the defender could not make a play on the ball. The defender was running right with Moss. Moss saw the ball, and pretty much stopped dead in his tracks and changed his direction, leaving the defender in the dust.

Maybe you just want to argue something...but this is absolutely untrue. I was there, at the game. I've seen the replays dozens of times. Moss caught both balls in-stride, and went in for the scores standing up, untouched. Since you are obviously unaware of this, let me clarify for you that it is comon practice to lead a reciever (either inside or outside (depending on the position of the defender) and not to throw the ball in a direct line over the receiver's head, forcing him to make the catch with his back to the ball (hardest catch to make) while also requiring a perfect pass that allows no adjustment. GET IT?

RayNAustin wrote:

BnGhog wrote:

RayNAustin wrote: Remember the Dallas game.....two bombs, hit in-stride? When has Campbell done this? NEVER

Just to clarify. Those were not hit in-stride. They were both underthrown AND off target. But lobbed enough Moss came back to them and adjusted. Which is also the reason the defender could not make a play on the ball. The defender was running right with Moss. Moss saw the ball, and pretty much stopped dead in his tracks and changed his direction, leaving the defender in the dust.

Maybe you just want to argue something...but this is absolutely untrue. I was there, at the game. I've seen the replays dozens of times. Moss caught both balls in-stride, and went in for the scores standing up, untouched. Since you are obviously unaware of this, let me clarify for you that it is comon practice to lead a reciever (either inside or outside (depending on the position of the defender) and not to throw the ball in a direct line over the receiver's head, forcing him to make the catch with his back to the ball (hardest catch to make) while also requiring a perfect pass that allows no adjustment. GET IT?

GSPODS wrote:Looks more like us crapping all over each other just to argue who's right or wrong about what happened in the past.
Who cares?

CanesSkins26 wrote:

As for this timing thing....that is a load of bull, and nothing but excuse making. Romo started last year, right off the bench.....timing didn't seem to bother him. Brady has three new receivers and he's lighting up the NFL. Randy Moss did nothing with the Raiders because he didn't have anyone to throw to him, but now look what he's doing? Santana Moss was 2nd in the NFL in 2005 when that no account, weak armed Brunell was throwing to him. Remember the Dallas game.....two bombs, hit in-stride? When has Campbell done this? NEVER

Off the top of my head....he did it with his first ever NFL pass. Only the ball went right through Brandon Lloyd's hands. He did it in the Packer's game only Moss dropped the ball. He also hit Thrash perfectly in the Cardinals game, but once again the ball was dropped.

Brady's receivers are HEALTHY. How hard is that to understand. Joe Gibbs said yesterday that they can't practice the deep ball to Moss in practice because of his INJURIES. So where exactly do you expect the timing to come from if the play isn't practiced? Tom Brady is also arguably one of the best qb's to ever play the game. So why are you comparing JC, who has made 15 total starts, to Tom Brady, who has won 3 Super Bowls. For once stop talking nonsense and look at some stats. You can ignore them all you want but JC's numbers through his first 15 games and comparable to Brady's first 15 games. Not to mention, Brady also has an amazing offensive line and has all day to sit in the pocket. But I'm sure that you don't consider the offensive line relevant passing game.

As for Romo, last season he has TO, Crayton, and Glenn to throw to. Do you really think that that's the same as throwing to Moss, ARE, and Thrash? I don't think so.[/b]

JSPB22 wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:

BnGhog wrote:

RayNAustin wrote: Remember the Dallas game.....two bombs, hit in-stride? When has Campbell done this? NEVER

Just to clarify. Those were not hit in-stride. They were both underthrown AND off target. But lobbed enough Moss came back to them and adjusted. Which is also the reason the defender could not make a play on the ball. The defender was running right with Moss. Moss saw the ball, and pretty much stopped dead in his tracks and changed his direction, leaving the defender in the dust.

Maybe you just want to argue something...but this is absolutely untrue. I was there, at the game. I've seen the replays dozens of times. Moss caught both balls in-stride, and went in for the scores standing up, untouched. Since you are obviously unaware of this, let me clarify for you that it is comon practice to lead a reciever (either inside or outside (depending on the position of the defender) and not to throw the ball in a direct line over the receiver's head, forcing him to make the catch with his back to the ball (hardest catch to make) while also requiring a perfect pass that allows no adjustment. GET IT?

Well actually, you're both wrong. The first catch was in the endzone, and he sort of slid, like a baseball slide, while making the catch. The second was in stride, but he had to adjust his route, and he ran the last 30 yards into the endzone and into Chief Zee's arms.

RayNAustin wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

As for this timing thing....that is a load of bull, and nothing but excuse making. Romo started last year, right off the bench.....timing didn't seem to bother him. Brady has three new receivers and he's lighting up the NFL. Randy Moss did nothing with the Raiders because he didn't have anyone to throw to him, but now look what he's doing? Santana Moss was 2nd in the NFL in 2005 when that no account, weak armed Brunell was throwing to him. Remember the Dallas game.....two bombs, hit in-stride? When has Campbell done this? NEVER

Off the top of my head....he did it with his first ever NFL pass. Only the ball went right through Brandon Lloyd's hands. He did it in the Packer's game only Moss dropped the ball. He also hit Thrash perfectly in the Cardinals game, but once again the ball was dropped.

Brady's receivers are HEALTHY. How hard is that to understand. Joe Gibbs said yesterday that they can't practice the deep ball to Moss in practice because of his INJURIES. So where exactly do you expect the timing to come from if the play isn't practiced? Tom Brady is also arguably one of the best qb's to ever play the game. So why are you comparing JC, who has made 15 total starts, to Tom Brady, who has won 3 Super Bowls. For once stop talking nonsense and look at some stats. You can ignore them all you want but JC's numbers through his first 15 games and comparable to Brady's first 15 games. Not to mention, Brady also has an amazing offensive line and has all day to sit in the pocket. But I'm sure that you don't consider the offensive line relevant passing game.

As for Romo, last season he has TO, Crayton, and Glenn to throw to. Do you really think that that's the same as throwing to Moss, ARE, and Thrash? I don't think so.[/b]

This year Romo is doing better and Glenn is hurt (ZERO catches). You think TO doesn't drop passes? He is renown for dropped balls. I'll take Santana over Terry Glenn, and ARE over Crayton any day. And I'll put y up against Witten all day long. Last year Witten had a grand total of 1 TD, while y had 6. Their yards per game, and number of catches were comparable.....last year. Both Moss and y were ahead of Glenn, Crayton, Witten and TO (philly) in 2005. What has changed? Dallas changed QB's in 2006 and so did the Redskins.

As for comparing Moss to TO...TO is a bigger, stronger receiver. But Santana is clearly an elite receiver as his numbers in 2005 clearly showed. Santana's numbers dropped significantly in 2006 because everyone game planned around him, and we had no 2nd tier threat....or perhaps because he had a rookie QB for the second half of the season??

As for the o-line issues....let's put this to bed right now. Wanna talk sacks? Campbell has been sacked 13 times this year so far (6 TD's). Roethlisberger 19 times (20 TD's) Romo 11 times (19 TD's) (and escapes at least a sack or 2 a game with mobility and scrambling) Hasselbeck 15 times (13 TD's) Get this....Kitna 33 SACKS (10 TD's) Derek Anderson (ROOKIE) 8 (17 TD's) Brian Greise....BRIAN BLOODY GREISE 12 sacks (9 TD's) want some more??

OK. There is only 1 QB in the entire NFL (QB's with 200 atts or more) with a lower QB rating than Jason Campbell....just ONE!! That is not perfectly fine. That is perfectly pitiful considering the talent on this team....great RB's, excellent TE, good Receivers. We are 3rd in the NFC in run offense, 13th in passing. Considering it takes an o-line to run the ball, and considering we don't have any out of the ordinary sack numbers, there is one common denominator here....the guy who PASSES the freaking ball.

How hard is this for you to understand?

CanesSkins26 wrote:You actually believe, that with Fabini and Wade starting (and with Pucillo having started a game) that our oline is as good as the Dallas and Pittsburgh olines? Seriously. Our line is playing so much worse than it did last year and if you can't see that then there is no point if even arguing with you because you are clueless. You want to talk about sacks, lets talk about sacks. Last season, in 7 games and 207 attempts, JC took 7 sacks. This season, in 8 games and 227 pass attempts, JC has already been sacked 13 times, almost double last year's old. Do you really not see that he is under much more pressure this season than last season? Go look at the rushing stats from the 7 games that JC started last season and compare them to the rushing stats from this season and then try and tell me that the oline isn't a problem. Everyone, from JC, Gibbs, Bugel, Wade, CP....the list goes on and on, has mentioned that the oline is having problems.

CanesSkins26 wrote:Those td numbers from those other teams are also misleading. The coaches of the Cowboys, Steelers, Lions, etc. all allow their qb's to throw the ball down field. Those teams routinely go 3 wide, and sometimes even 4 wide. Our team, on the other hand, goes 2 wide, rarely 3 wide, and almost never 4 wide. If we went 3 wide and threw downfield more, I have no doubt that JC would have more td's.

Moss is not TO. Sorry to break it to you. Moss is a very good receiver, but TO is an elite player. Throw in injuries to his groin and heal, and Moss is definitely not in the same class as TO. As for your Crayton/Randle El comparison, they are close in talent, but Crayton is their #3 receiver and will be back in that position when Glenn comes back. And we have James Thrash and his 3 catches as our number 3.

As for your qb rating numbers, those are straight up misleading. What makes 200 attempts the cutoff point. There are plenty of starters in the NFL with under 200 attempts. Trent Green, Culpepper, Garrard, Warner, Vince Young. Looking at all the stats, JC is 25th out of 34 qb's. Obviously that's not that great, but once again for a qb only starting 15 games, it's that bad either. Another thing that you conviniently left us is that of the 24 qb's with higher passer ratings than JC, 23 of them have more NFL playing experience than he does. He is young. He'll get better.

I'm also going to pose this question to you.....you harp about the problems with JC and the passing game, but how exactly do you expect it to get better when JC can't even practice with his top receivers? As an example, Moss didn't practice yesterday or today. Randle El sat out practice today. Do expect the passing game to magically improve when the starters aren't even practicing with JC?