The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

5 pages already so I know someone has mentioned: Portis has his wheels back. His "game" legs are strong again....did you see him outrun his pursuers???

Now, Mr Portis, you need to maintain, sustain, and do that week after week.

Playoffs, here we come..........

A win is a win but there are still issues on the offense and I still think maybe it's time for Joe to step aside (not now but at season's end).

Grades:

Defense: C. The Jets are a 1-7 team with a rookie QB and we gave up too much today. Maybe a hangover from last week.

Offense - B-. Only because of Portis' running. It looks like he's rounding into form and they have gone away from the "interchangeable back" system because Portis only went out when he got winded.

Santana Moss does not look healthy to me. It looked like he couldn't get that extra gear on the deep ball. Also, the passing game was pretty bad this week the protection and JC either choosing to dump off or having to dump off because of pressure..

Special Teams - C. Can't give up long returns like that. Also, our return game was week today....

I was much relieved by the performances of Portis and McIntire. Both seem healthy and ready to roll. On another positive note, I think we played an improved Jets team today-- that rookie QB looked pretty good to me.

I'm trying to ignore the fact that we won when we shouldn't have-- because one of their receivers dropped a pass right in his hands. We can thanks the stars for this one.

Gibbs, of course, will think we won by playing "Redskin football" and be encouraged to do it again against decent competition. The trouble with running the football without throwing to WR's in the NFL was exemplified today-- it can only be productive against inferior defenses and still produces too few points. We got only 23 points from almost 300 yds on the ground and still had to rely on field goals.

The Skins' passing offense today looked both rusty and stupid, as if too little work is being done on timing and routes in practice. I'm just not buying into the idea that NFL WR's (ours in particular) don't have the skills to get open. That's BS. Something's wrong here both with philosophy and game preparation.

Portis and Suisham are the two players of the game. The defense kept us in the game as well.

roybus14 wrote:A win is a win but there are still issues on the offense and I still think maybe it's time for Joe to step aside (not now but at season's end).

Grades:

Defense: C. The Jets are a 1-7 team with a rookie QB and we gave up too much today. Maybe a hangover from last week.

Offense - B-. Only because of Portis' running. It looks like he's rounding into form and they have gone away from the "interchangeable back" system because Portis only went out when he got winded.

Santana Moss does not look healthy to me. It looked like he couldn't get that extra gear on the deep ball. Also, the passing game was pretty bad this week the protection and JC either choosing to dump off or having to dump off because of pressure..

Special Teams - C. Can't give up long returns like that. Also, our return game was week today....

I would give the defense a B-. I mean they did only give up 13 points. But they let the Jets score late in the 4th quarter and the misdirection gave them some problems. The Jets also helped us a lot by dropping some balls.

Offense gets a C-. We played what might be the worst defense in the NFL and they were missing their best player, and we couldn't get anything going in the passing game and had to settle for far too many fg's. The running game worked great but I'd like to see us run like that against a respectable defense.

Special Teams gets a C. Suisham's field goals were huge. But we gave up the opening td and couldn't do anything with our own returns. The onside kick was a great move. The coaches also need to figure out what to do on kickoffs because Suisham isn't kicking deep with any consistency.

Coaching gets a C-. Overly conservative offense also cost us the game once again. The team didn't look ready to play at the start of the game and came out flat. Also, the penalties are inexcusable and the coaches have to correct that. On the positive side, I'm glad that GW finally started dialing up the blitzes. The onside kick was ballsy and exactly what we needed at the time.

Well after Philthy's lame showing last night against the Pukes I am going to take my rose tinted glasses with me to Fed Ex next Sunday, and I will looking for the Skins to be 6-3. All we can do is continue to try to improve with the players we have.

I'm on a 2 game winning streak (49'rs in '05 and the Pukes game last year). I'm looking for 3 in a row. Of course I always go expecting a win. Always have.

Has anyone ever considered that THIS IS OUR TALENT ABILITY? That we're not the Super Bowl team that's underachieving? That we ARE playing to our current ability? I know this sounds pessimistic, but it's 1/2 way thru the season and we are consistantly inconsistant. Maybe when Thomas gets bcak (hopefully like originally predicted) it will help the run game and protection, but for now, I'm coming to the conclusion that this IS our talent level. JC is not the second coming of Christ. Portis is not Barry Sanders. Santana Moss is NOT Art Monk. Carlos Rogers is NOT FREAKIN DARRELL GREEN! This is our team and we can hope for improvements, but for now, we are 3rd in the NFCE and 5-3. This is not bad, but there is tons of room for improvement.

I am glad Portis had a big day. We need to feed him the ball because obviously, we need teams to play 8 man fronts so we can bomb it out (hopefully bomb it out). OK, 8 man fronts as long as we can move the ball through the air. It is satisfying that we won but unsatisfying that we eeeeeeked it out. On to the Iggles and hopefully we can crank it up against a division rival.

VetSkinsFan wrote:Has anyone ever considered that THIS IS OUR TALENT ABILITY? That we're not the Super Bowl team that's underachieving? That we ARE playing to our current ability? I know this sounds pessimistic, but it's 1/2 way thru the season and we are consistantly inconsistant. Maybe when Thomas gets bcak (hopefully like originally predicted) it will help the run game and protection, but for now, I'm coming to the conclusion that this IS our talent level. JC is not the second coming of Christ. Portis is not Barry Sanders. Santana Moss is NOT Art Monk. Carlos Rogers is NOT FREAKIN DARRELL GREEN! This is our team and we can hope for improvements, but for now, we are 3rd in the NFCE and 5-3. This is not bad, but there is tons of room for improvement.

You make some valid points but you also have to remember that one thing ties into another. Meaning, our WRs may be getting open in "open space" but then blocking breaks down or JC may be late with his throws.

I honestly don't think that it's the talent level. You are correct that these guys are those people you have compared them too but this offensive coaching staff has to do it's job to maximize what they do have. If the O-Line is weak in pass-blocking then change your routes and plays that get the ball out faster so that JC is not collapsed on when trying to go down field. The other thing that this offensive staff has to do is be better at recognition during the game. Portis was running well yesterday and the "play action" and the deep ball was there for the pickin's.

When we went deep in OT, it revealed that Moss ain't 100%. He kinda pulled up on that ball and didn't even make an enough to dive for it. I will say about Moss that his talent is there but I think his body is starting to break down on him. He got hurt earlier in the game and it showed in OT on that deep ball. He didn't have the extra "gear" like a healthy Moss does to go after that ball and pull it in. Would Lloyd have made that catch if he was there in that spot? Don't know. I do know that right now, we don't have a "burner" at WR right now. Moss is hurt and if this is going to be his deal from here out, maybe it's time to start looking for another burner. Moss' talent is unquestionable, it's his health now....

James Thrash couldn't get separation anxiety, much less separation from a defender. So, three wide receiver formations become the same as two wide receiver formations.

Santana Moss has no speed, clearly isn't healthy, and can't be asked to run down flat passes even if he is healthy.

Therefore, Randle El can be double teamed, eliminating him as an option.

That leaves Sellers and ey, which is exactly what we have been seeing.

GSPODS wrote:James Thrash couldn't get separation anxiety, much less separation from a defender. So, three wide receiver formations become the same as two wide receiver formations.

Why aren't McCardell and Caldwell ahead of Thrash on the WR depth chart? What's McCardell done to be benched? Seems like he's been solid when he's in there.

Mursilis wrote:

GSPODS wrote:James Thrash couldn't get separation anxiety, much less separation from a defender. So, three wide receiver formations become the same as two wide receiver formations.

Why aren't McCardell and Caldwell ahead of Thrash on the WR depth chart? What's McCardell done to be benched? Seems like he's been solid when he's in there.

McCardell hasn't been benched. I know he was in for at least one play this weekend. I don't know what Gibbs' fascination with James Thrash is. OK, so he's a team player, and a good special teams player. He hasn't caught a pass all season!!!

GSPODS wrote:

Mursilis wrote:

GSPODS wrote:James Thrash couldn't get separation anxiety, much less separation from a defender. So, three wide receiver formations become the same as two wide receiver formations.

Why aren't McCardell and Caldwell ahead of Thrash on the WR depth chart? What's McCardell done to be benched? Seems like he's been solid when he's in there.

McCardell hasn't been benched. I know he was in for at least one play this weekend.

OK, maybe benched wasn't the right word, but if he's only in the 4th spot on the depth chart, why? I'd put him ahead of Thrash most any Sunday if he's healthy.

I don't know what Gibbs' fascination with James Thrash is. OK, so he's a team player, and a good special teams player. He hasn't caught a pass all season!!!

Actually, he's caught three, which isn't much over 8 games, so your point stands.

Mursilis wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

Mursilis wrote:

GSPODS wrote:James Thrash couldn't get separation anxiety, much less separation from a defender. So, three wide receiver formations become the same as two wide receiver formations.

Why aren't McCardell and Caldwell ahead of Thrash on the WR depth chart? What's McCardell done to be benched? Seems like he's been solid when he's in there.

McCardell hasn't been benched. I know he was in for at least one play this weekend.

OK, maybe benched wasn't the right word, but if he's only in the 4th spot on the depth chart, why? I'd put him ahead of Thrash most any Sunday if he's healthy.

I don't know what Gibbs' fascination with James Thrash is. OK, so he's a team player, and a good special teams player. He hasn't caught a pass all season!!!

Actually, he's caught three, which isn't much over 8 games, so your point stands.

My fault. It took him so long to catch one that I actually forgot he has caught three. Three receptions from the #3 wide receiver. Doesn't McCardell have the same number of receptions?

GSPODS wrote:My fault. It took him so long to catch one that I actually forgot he has caught three. Three receptions from the #3 wide receiver. Doesn't McCardell have the same number of receptions?

McCardell actually has 4. So why is he behind Thrash?

Mursilis wrote:

GSPODS wrote:My fault. It took him so long to catch one that I actually forgot he has caught three. Three receptions from the #3 wide receiver. Doesn't McCardell have the same number of receptions?

McCardell actually has 4. So why is he behind Thrash?

Seeing as how McCardell has been in on less than half as many plays as Thrash, I have no intelligent answer to your question.

The good news...and only good news is that we got a win. But it was ugly, and it should have been a blowout. 5 fg 1 td is pathetic against a bad defense.

What should be the obvious concern here seems to be getting lost. With 290 yards rushing, we still couldn't get the passing game going? So much for the run setting up the pass.

There seems to be a lot of talk about receivers here and little about the QB. But the fact is, JC isn't getting it done. PERIOD. No excuses about how many games he's started.....or o-line issues or anything else. He is supposed to be a deep ball thrower....that is supposed to be one of his big talents......I DON"T SEE IT. Where is it? When have we seen it? Where did this reputation come from?

Clearly, JC's deep balls are TOO flat! He's missed several open receivers deep this year, with game breaking potential. The lack of TD's and our inability to score in the red zone IS A QB PROBLEM, and cannot be blamed on a receiver (BL) who doesn't even make it on the field.

When considering the Redskins potential, we have to take into account division competition ( Eagles, Giants, and Cowboys) and how we stack up. Right now that doesn't look good at all. And much of this is due to poor QB play from JC. He holds the ball too long.....he stares down receivers....too slow in recognizing coverages and making appropriate decisions, and plays to carefully in an effort to avoid mistakes.

Coaching may be partially responsible for this as Gibbs is renowned for seeking a game manager versus a play maker at QB, but is not the total answer.

If you compare MB numbers to JC's, you'll see Brunell leading, yet so much MB hating and so much JC loving going on?? Fact is, we had a better deep threat with MB. We had better offense overall with MB. That's not to say that MB is the answer, it's just a comparison to show that JC is not, at this point, a very good player. He may be at some point in the future, but he isn't right now, and he cannot compete with other top performers we must defeat....Romo and the Cowboys.

The rookie QB for the jets looked better against out defense than JC looked against their poor defense even while we were running the ball at will.

Any 2nd string QB could have equalled or bettered JC's performance yesterday. That's just the fact of the matter. And until he starts performing and making plays, we will continue to see this amateurish offense floundering.

I'm beginning to believe the coaches don't trust Campbell to get the job done and that's why it's run, run, run and run with Clinton Portis. Yet earlier in the year, it seemed to me Campbell was throwing down field and making some good plays. Whatever the situation, Campbell has to be effective for us to win consistently.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

- Also saw Campbell underthrow Thrash deep in the endzone, and overthrow somebody else.

The throw to Thrash looked right on to me. He should've made that catch. In his defense though, he isn't the one that should have been running that pattern.

No, it was definitely an underthrown ball, but I agree that we should have had a receiver in there who would make the catch. The overthrown (and inaccurate) pass to Moss was another heartbreaker, but I have to keep reminding myself that this is Campbell's first year. I think we will see his accuracy on the deep ball improve. (And let's get a WR who can muscle a ball or two, while we're at it).

Irn-Bru wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

- Also saw Campbell underthrow Thrash deep in the endzone, and overthrow somebody else.

The throw to Thrash looked right on to me. He should've made that catch. In his defense though, he isn't the one that should have been running that pattern.

No, it was definitely an underthrown ball, but I agree that we should have had a receiver in there who would make the catch. The overthrown (and inaccurate) pass to Moss was another heartbreaker, but I have to keep reminding myself that this is Campbell's first year. I think we will see his accuracy on the deep ball improve. (And let's get a WR who can muscle a ball or two, while we're at it).

for what its worth, i was at the game yesterday, and the wind was very tricky. judging by the goal post flags, it didnt appear to be much wind... but in watching the kickers during warmups, there clearly was some wind issues.

however, it is hard to get any kind of downfield threat going when we go into 2 WR sets and one of them has an 8-3 on his back. why we have thrash is in there is beyond me. does gibbs think we would get a penalty by only having 10 men on the field. cause, clearly i would rather go out there with 10, and no thrash, just so he doesnt clog up the secondary with an extra body. he isnt beating anyone and its like he is out there cause we HAVE to put 11 on the field. i would so much rather have lloyd in there just to make the CB think for a second that he MIGHT have to turn and run up the field and play defense... until he realizes that it is indeed b.lloyd and would most likely dive and drop in anyway.

With parity, especially in the NFC, no one should count us out this season. Yes we got blown out by the 9-0 Patriots, but they have trounced plenty of other teams. The game should not have been that close yesterday. The opening kickoff return and the Landry-extended drive netted the Jets 14 points. They only should have scored two FGs yesterday. I know, I know... should've, would've, could've. But we DID win. And if you are looking for improvement, better O-line play netted a big day for Clinton Portis. And we never gave up hope as a team. That shows me that the players still believe in this coaching staff, even if most on this site seem to think I must have drunk the Kool-Aid to keep advancing that idea here.

I think this is Campbell's 3nd year actually. He was drafted in 2005 Spent 2005 on the bench behind Brunell and Ramsey....played in the 2006 preseason, and started halfway through 2006 season. So this is his third year with the Redskins and second year as a "starter". That's plenty enough time under center to not be considered a rookie, and after all of the hoopla about how much work he put in in the offseason, we should expect more tangible evidence that he is the real deal. He's been decent at times....flashes of great promise but never has had that "breakout" game.

Given the fact that we traded up to draft him in the 1st round of 2005, I think by midseason 2007, he should be delivering.

We've had countless "promises" from some of our big picks. Westbrook, Howard, Shuler, Ramsey.....and now Campbell. I began feeling good about Campbell early in the season after listening to all of the hype. Halfway through now, he's just not producing and I don't see him being anything more than a game manager.

The new NFL we find ourselves in with teams like the Pats, Colts, Cowboys scoring tons of points, you need a QB that can light the opposition up if you want to be competitive. I don't care how good you run the ball these days....the opposing defenses can stack the box and force you to beat them in the air.

Right now the Redskins have all of their eggs in one basket, and that basket looks pretty mediocre at the moment.

JSPB22 wrote:With parity, especially in the NFC, no one should count us out this season.

Have to disagree here.
Green Bay 7-1
Dallas 7-1
Detroit - 6-2
NY Giants 6-2
Washington 5-3

The problem is two of these teams are from the NFC North and three of these teams are from the NFC East. With losses to both Green Bay and the NY Giants, Washington has to leapfrog at least two teams to be assured of a playoff berth. Impossible: No. Improbable: Yes, given the two teams Washington has to leapfrog, which both defeated the Redskins earlier this season. And Washington doesn't play two of the teams it would need to leapfrog again this season. Not to mention every NFC team ahead of the Redskins is on pace for a 12-4 or better season. The Redskins are not.

RayNAustin wrote:I don't see him being anything more than a game manager.

The best game manager in the NFL right now is Peyton Manning. Gibbs won three SBs with game managers. I'd rather have a game manager any day over a Jeff George, strong arm, but no QB skills any day. JC has the arm, and he is learning the position to go along with it. Give it time. He still has less than one season under center as you put it. Practice time, and game time, are two totally different things.

GSPODS wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:With parity, especially in the NFC, no one should count us out this season.

Have to disagree here.
Green Bay 7-1
Dallas 7-1
Detroit - 6-2
NY Giants 6-2
Washington 5-3

The problem is two of these teams are from the NFC North and three of these teams are from the NFC East. With losses to both Green Bay and the NY Giants, Washington has to leapfrog at least two teams to be assured of a playoff berth. Impossible: No. Improbable: Yes, given the two teams Washington has to leapfrog, which both defeated the Redskins earlier this season. And Washington doesn't play two of the teams it would need to leapfrog again this season. Not to mention every NFC team ahead of the Redskins is on pace for a 12-4 or better season. The Redskins are not.

Not true. We beat the Lions, so we own the tie-breaker with them. and we are only one game back. No leap-frog is necessary. If GB wins that division, as it looks like they will, that loss costs us nothing other than the "L." We still have a game against the G-strings, so they do not own any tie-breakers over us yet. We do have to still beat them in NJ, but that is not impossible. We are two behind the Pies, but we still have two games against them, so again, they do not own any tie-breakers over us. We are right in the hunt for an NFC playoff spot, no matter how pessimistically you want to view it.