The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I hate to even say this, but tommarrow morning Danny should shake this team up and fire Joe and his incompetant staff, 4-3 is still salvagable, there not fixing anything, same problems week after week.

The three sacks that led to fumbles came from the banged up side of the line. Poor Fabini got handled like a toy today.

They did their job. They identified our weaknesses at offense and defense and they won.

The game was lost as early as the exchange of first series. We moved ahead but did not score. They took over after that and we did not have -anything- to reply with.

Other teams have complained about the tactic to run up the score, it is true. There is no sense to get mad. We should get even. But that is not going to happen this season.

WE should still be in contention for a playoff spot in the poor NFC. But there is no question that the REAL Super Bowl will be played in the AFC Final game.

Having watched bit and pieces of all NFC teams, we still have a real good chance to end up with a winning record and in the playoffs. It all depends on how the Team bounces back from this game this week.

Where did HKHOG go. He's the guy who did that fantastic analysis on how the Patriots' offense is over-rated and how this game was to be a great matchup for the Skins.

He seems to be conspicuous by his absence?

redskingush wrote:I hate to even say this, but tommarrow morning Danny should shake this team up and fire Joe and his incompetant staff, 4-3 is still salvagable, there not fixing anything, same problems week after week.

Can -we- fire the owner and Vinny instead?

I don't know how anyone could have thought the Skins would be victorious against the Patriots. We have too many weaknesses on offense and the Patriots appear unstoppable.

Redskin in Canada wrote:The three sacks that led to fumbles came from the banged up side of the line. Poor Fabini got handled like a toy today.

They did their job. They identified our weaknesses at offense and defense and they won.

The game was lost as early as the exchange of first series. We moved ahead but did not score. They took over after that and we did not have -anything- to reply with.

Other teams have complained about the tactic to run up the score, it is true. There is no sense to get mad. We should get even. But that is not going to happen this season.

WE should still be in contention for a playoff spot in the poor NFC. But there is no question that the REAL Super Bowl will be played in the AFC Final game.

Having watched bit and pieces of all NFC teams, we still have a real good chance to end up with a winning record and in the playoffs. It all depends on how the Team bounces back from this game this week.

RIC, I couldnt agree with you more (Us canadians really know our stuff:), however I must address the last 2 paragraphs, Yes we can make the playoffs, but our we really contenders? And bounce back after last week at home to Arizona where in my mind the Cards gave us the game in the end. they bounced back like this, I know we played a far superior team but we didnt look like we knew how to play in any aspect of the game. I guess the NY JETS are popping up in a good spot for us!!!!

Redskin in Canada wrote:

redskingush wrote:I hate to even say this, but tommarrow morning Danny should shake this team up and fire Joe and his incompetant staff, 4-3 is still salvagable, there not fixing anything, same problems week after week.

Can -we- fire the owner and Vinny instead?

Yeah Man, lets fire them all and give complete control to the thehogs.net, the brains at this site could get this team where it needs to be, I am sure of that!!!!!!!!

Us canadians really know our stuff

Yup... some do.

tommarrow morning Danny should shake this team up and fire Joe and his incompetant staff,

And, then, others just seem to ride on their backs...

Fan035 wrote:I don't know how anyone could have thought the Skins would be victorious against the Patriots. We have too many weaknesses on offense and the Patriots appear unstoppable.

The games start and are decided on the lines.

WE have too many weaknesses at OL.

Our four front DL cannot get to a great passer like Brady fast enough to pressure them. Their OL defeated our DL. They opened holes to run and gave good enough pass protection to Brady.

I wish somebody had given a good lick to Brady in any of his runs but we didn't.

I suppose the Pats will be favourite next week But I certainly hope that the Colts beat them.

redskingush wrote:I hate to even say this, but tommarrow morning Danny should shake this team up and fire Joe and his incompetant staff

then don't say it.

Redskin in Canada wrote:

Fan035 wrote:I don't know how anyone could have thought the Skins would be victorious against the Patriots. We have too many weaknesses on offense and the Patriots appear unstoppable.

The games start and are decided on the lines.

WE have too many weaknesses at OL.

Our four front DL cannot get to a great passer like Brady fast enough to pressure them. Their OL defeated our DL. They opened holes to run and gave good enough pass protection to Brady.

I wish somebody had given a good lick to Brady in any of his runs but we didn't.

I suppose the Pats will be favourite next week But I certainly hope that the Colts beat them.

I agree with your 1st four points......but on the last, I'll take the Pats. I don't think there is a team that can match up with them. Like them or not, they are solid.

BeeGee wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I may start to entertain the notion that Moss really isn't a #1 WR. We need a #1 big tall WR stat!

I agree and disagree with your post. I think that Santana is fully capable of being a number 1. The problem is that teams double cover him because there really aren't any other receivers that other teams need to worry all that much about. Randle El is a nice receiver but I still don't think that he is a number 2. And who is our number 3?? Thrash!?!? Do other teams even need to cover him? What we need is a big receiver (not necessarily a #1) that can go across the middle to open things up for Moss. When we went to Campbell from Brunell I thought that the coaches would finally decide to use the middle of the field but we really don't do that very much. Our first play of the season was an attempted pass to ey down the seem but I don't think that we have done that since. We need to use more of the field and try to find a way to get our play makers (Cooley, Moss, etc.) in space. Every time Moss or Randle El catch a ball they are blanketed by defenders.

But see, that's the whole point. #1 caliber receivers get theirs even when doubled. They find a way even if they're held quiet in stretches. Moss is not a bonafide #1
wideout.

Really? Moss has Welker and Stallworth. TO has Crayton and last year had Glenn. Johnson has TJ. Harrison has Wayne. Fitzgerald has Bolden. Edwards has Winslow (we have ey but bc of the line he has to stay in and block). Each of those #2 receivers is far better than Randle El. It's very difficult for any receiver to post big numbers when there aren't any other receivers that scare opposing defenses. Santana showed in 2003 and 2005 that he is fully capable of being a #1 receiver. Yes he's struggled this season but that happens to every receiver. It's also very hard for a receiver to put up big numbers when (1) the coaches handcuff the qb by not allowing him to throw the ball down field; (2) the offensive line can't hold up for very long so the qb doesn't have a lot of time to throw the ball; and (3) the offense can't run the ball.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

BeeGee wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I may start to entertain the notion that Moss really isn't a #1 WR. We need a #1 big tall WR stat!

I agree and disagree with your post. I think that Santana is fully capable of being a number 1. The problem is that teams double cover him because there really aren't any other receivers that other teams need to worry all that much about. Randle El is a nice receiver but I still don't think that he is a number 2. And who is our number 3?? Thrash!?!? Do other teams even need to cover him? What we need is a big receiver (not necessarily a #1) that can go across the middle to open things up for Moss. When we went to Campbell from Brunell I thought that the coaches would finally decide to use the middle of the field but we really don't do that very much. Our first play of the season was an attempted pass to ey down the seem but I don't think that we have done that since. We need to use more of the field and try to find a way to get our play makers (Cooley, Moss, etc.) in space. Every time Moss or Randle El catch a ball they are blanketed by defenders.

But see, that's the whole point. #1 caliber receivers get theirs even when doubled. They find a way even if they're held quiet in stretches. Moss is not a bonafide #1
wideout.

Really? Moss has Welker and Stallworth. TO has Crayton and last year had Glenn. Johnson has TJ. Harrison has Wayne. Fitzgerald has Bolden. Edwards has Winslow (we have ey but bc of the line he has to stay in and block). Each of those #2 receivers is far better than Randle El. It's very difficult for any receiver to post big numbers when there aren't any other receivers that scare opposing defenses. Santana showed in 2003 and 2005 that he is fully capable of being a #1 receiver. Yes he's struggled this season but that happens to every receiver. It's also very hard for a receiver to put up big numbers when (1) the coaches handcuff the qb by not allowing him to throw the ball down field; (2) the offensive line can't hold up for very long so the qb doesn't have a lot of time to throw the ball; and (3) the offense can't run the ball.

I need to know WHERE THE HELL IS CALDWELL AND MCCARDELL!!! Is the playbook so frigging hard that these guys aren't playing? I've said it all along because I lived it. Gibbs v. 1.0 was the best. there is nothing I'm liking about v.2.0! Mind you, I had no delusions of victory for today, but, I did think that they would come to PLAY. This game just shows how bad the rest of the league is for us to have 4 wins!

thanks for listening

old-timer wrote:We need a WR bad, but much more we need a DeMarcus Ware type defensive linemen and much, much more O-Line depth. Gibbs should never, never have taken a QB in the first round. He won 3 SB's without this type of QB so what was he thinking? With personnel on the Skins so messed up, I don't see them ever challenging for the SB for the next 2-3 years AT BEST. Today shows just how low we are in the pecknig order, and it wouldn't have been much better against Indy.

I could not disagree more.

We do NOT need any defensive player more than an impact WR and we certainly do not need any more offensive lineman. Sure a couple of our guys got injured, but those are flukes.

Samuels, Kendall, Rabach, Thomas and Jansen make up one of the best offensive lines in the league... and good linemen can be found in the later rounds of the draft.

Defensive impact players are nice, but we have a very good defense already (that needs to be kept off the field in order to be championship quality... but the right personnel is there.)

All the offense needs are passing weapons. These two things can be acquired if we're smart about our picks or our trades or our free agent moves.

After that, we'd need some role players to fill out the roster, but the Redskins have been on the right track ever since Gibbs came on board and we're one of the better rebuilding teams in the NFL... we just need to keep it up.

Face it, Campbell was absolutely horrible today. His first interception, like last week's interception, has to leave your head shaking. Aikman said Campbell was talented, but Aikman also said there was no excuse for Campbell to put the ball on the ground that many times. It's either poor coaching or the guy is just very careless with the football.

Secondly, Campbell looks slow, just like he did last season, and he holds the ball too long, just like he did in preseason. He's been throwing late. On a couple of those strips you can clearly see he's waiting for the receiver to come open when the ball should already have been thrown. The jury is still very much out on whether Campbell will ever be a pro-caliber quarterback, and this game proves it until Campbell proves otherwise.

Gibbs has never been a personnel man and Aikman put it bluntlly. If you look at all the personnel moves the Pats have made the last few years, and compare them with those the Redskins have made, it's a complete 180. That's the difference.

Yes the interception was bad but all qb's throw int's. I'm pretty sure that JC was just trying to make a play there. Also, why in the world are we sending Thrash down the field? As for last week's int....it didn't leave me shaking my head. It was a screen and the linemen from Arizona made a nice play on the ball.

Have to disagree with you on the holding the ball too long today. On two of the fumbles Vrabel was UNBLOCKED. JC had barely set before he was hit on one fumble, on another the ball was hit as he was throwing, and on the third he was scrambling because the pocket collapsed. You say he's holding the ball for too long....my question to you is who do you expect him to throw the ball to when our receivers aren't getting open?

Aikman mentioned the fumbles. Yes it's a problem. However, as I mentioned in my previous post it wouldn't even be an issue if our oline could pass black. And for comparison's sake I mentioned how Brady fumbled in a similar fashion today. But that was the only time he was under pressure. JC was under pressure all day. And I never said that Gibbs was a great personnel guy. What I said was that plenty of people (Jacoby, Sonny, Sam Huff, Jaws, Theismann...just to name a few) have said some very good things about JC. I believe that it was Riggins on pregame today that said that JC was playing like the top 33 or even top 25% of NFL qb's right now. He had a tough day today. THE ENTIRE TEAM DID.

Campbell has only started 14 NFL games, has a pour offensive line, lacks play makers to throw to and yet he has still played very well. In his first 14 NFL games he has 16 td's and 12 int's. That's very good for a young qb. He is poised in the pocket, makes good decisions, has improved his accuracy, and has a cannon for an arm. The only area where I really think he needs to improve is his timing with his receivers. That's going to take some time.

jmooney wrote:Yeah maybe a bit, but something just dont feel right about that team,I just dont see how that kind of dominance is possible in Todays NFL. If they do this to the Colts, there should be a serious investigation. Im not just talking about what happened to us today, but every team they have played so far. Something just dont add up, all of a sudden this team is the greatest team in NFL history BY A LONG SHOT! even better than previous Patriot teams. I could expect a certain amount of dominance by one team over the rest of the league , but this?

They're good because some players are front-runners; they want to play only for established winners. Look at Randy Moss - he's actually trying in New England because he's got a good QB and he wants a ring. Adalius Thomas signed there knowing he could get more $$ elsewhere, but he too wants a ring. Players will take less $$ to play in NE and get a ring.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

BeeGee wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I may start to entertain the notion that Moss really isn't a #1 WR. We need a #1 big tall WR stat!

I agree and disagree with your post. I think that Santana is fully capable of being a number 1. The problem is that teams double cover him because there really aren't any other receivers that other teams need to worry all that much about. Randle El is a nice receiver but I still don't think that he is a number 2. And who is our number 3?? Thrash!?!? Do other teams even need to cover him? What we need is a big receiver (not necessarily a #1) that can go across the middle to open things up for Moss. When we went to Campbell from Brunell I thought that the coaches would finally decide to use the middle of the field but we really don't do that very much. Our first play of the season was an attempted pass to ey down the seem but I don't think that we have done that since. We need to use more of the field and try to find a way to get our play makers (Cooley, Moss, etc.) in space. Every time Moss or Randle El catch a ball they are blanketed by defenders.

But see, that's the whole point. #1 caliber receivers get theirs even when doubled. They find a way even if they're held quiet in stretches. Moss is not a bonafide #1 wideout.

IMO it's moreso due to his stature and build of body. He has the heart and the skills, but he's simply not big enough to be a primary target.

Thrash at the #3 position is just retarded on Gibbs behalf.

Size is overrated - look at Steve Smith - just as fast as Moss, but tougher and with better hands.

I hate that the Skins O is so awful that when the D has a bad game they can do nothing to shoulder the burden.

The offense is out coached every week, week after week, and has been since Gibbs returned. We went from steady and drab with Marty to imaginative and suicidal with Spurrier to drab and suicidal with Gibbs.

I worship Gibbs. He is my hero. I became a Nascar fan because I followed Gibbs' every move when he left the Redskins. I cried with joy when he came back. But he's not getting it done - today was just the truth being told loud and clear by a team that is getting it done.

It's time for a shakeup. Blow it up. Rebuild it. Come up with a new gameplan in the interim. Because right now the only thing the Skins are inspiring is that same sinking feeling I get about game seven every year for the last fifteen years. All the offseason hope is melting down to the same familiar mantra - "gee, the Skins just aren't as good as I thought they were going to be. This sucks."

Gnome wrote:I hate that the Skins O is so awful that when the D has a bad game they can do nothing to shoulder the burden.

The offense is out coached every week, week after week, and has been since Gibbs returned. We went from steady and drab with Marty to imaginative and suicidal with Spurrier to drab and suicidal with Gibbs.

I worship Gibbs. He is my hero. I became a Nascar fan because I followed Gibbs' every move when he left the Redskins. I cried with joy when he came back. But he's not getting it done - today was just the truth being told loud and clear by a team that is getting it done.

It's time for a shakeup. Blow it up. Rebuild it. Come up with a new gameplan in the interim. Because right now the only thing the Skins are inspiring is that same sinking feeling I get about game seven every year for the last fifteen years. All the offseason hope is melting down to the same familiar mantra - "gee, the Skins just aren't as good as I thought they were going to be. This sucks."

The last thing we need to do is rebuild. We are finally getting some continuity. We have the talent to be a great team. To rebuild now would be taking a step backward just because fans are too impatient to wait for this team to gel.

Skinsfan55 wrote:

old-timer wrote:We need a WR bad, but much more we need a DeMarcus Ware type defensive linemen and much, much more O-Line depth. Gibbs should never, never have taken a QB in the first round. He won 3 SB's without this type of QB so what was he thinking? With personnel on the Skins so messed up, I don't see them ever challenging for the SB for the next 2-3 years AT BEST. Today shows just how low we are in the pecknig order, and it wouldn't have been much better against Indy.

I could not disagree more.

We do NOT need any defensive player more than an impact WR and we certainly do not need any more offensive lineman. Sure a couple of our guys got injured, but those are flukes.

Samuels, Kendall, Rabach, Thomas and Jansen make up one of the best offensive lines in the league... and good linemen can be found in the later rounds of the draft.

Defensive impact players are nice, but we have a very good defense already (that needs to be kept off the field in order to be championship quality... but the right personnel is there.)

All the offense needs are passing weapons. These two things can be acquired if we're smart about our picks or our trades or our free agent moves.

After that, we'd need some role players to fill out the roster, but the Redskins have been on the right track ever since Gibbs came on board and we're one of the better rebuilding teams in the NFL... we just need to keep it up.

I agree that passing weapons are priority number 1 in the off season. However, I think that we need to make some changes on both lines as well. Samuels, Thomas, and Rabach are excellent players. Jansen I think is going to need to be replaced soon though. He was very average last season and he has been pretty banged up the last few season. I also have not be overly impressed with Kendall. Do they necessarily need to be replaced for next season? No. But we need to bring in some talented young players (preferably through the draft) to groom to be future starters and to provide us with some depth because injuries are inevitable and we were not prepared for them this season on the oline. Fabini and Wade have been absolutely awful. And that's not just my opinion. Joe Jacoby, who knows a thing or two about playing the position, said the same thing today and Ray Brown has also been very critical of the line. As for the dline, we need some upgrades there are well. The middle is fine but Daniels is getting up there in age and Carter, while getting some sacks this season, doesn't get consistent pressure on the qb. He shows flashes but then disappears for long stretches of time. Just look at how much time Warner and Brady have had the past 2 weeks. This defense is not going to be truly dominant until the dline can generate pressure on its own.

Skinsfan55 wrote:All the offense needs are passing weapons. These two things can be acquired if we're smart about our picks or our trades or our free agent moves.

WRs are way overrated. What great WRs did the Pats have last year when they still won 12 games and went to the AFC Championship game? Sure, having Moss, Stallworth, and Welker is nice now, but the Pats were very, very good without them. They would have beaten us last year too.

Ive set here and thought for a few hours now and I just cant seem to get my mind around a solution for this team. Simply put, the Patriots franchise is where we would like this team to be, but after today that seems so far out of reach. I really dont know who to blame. Preparation looked to be the major issue. We simply were not prepared to play this team today, mentally or physically. This is the most lop-sided loss I can remember being a part of as a Redskin fan. I still believe the franchise is in better shape than we have been in for quite some time but, this was a sign of how much still needs to be done.

jmooney wrote:Ive set here and thought for a few hours now and I just cant seem to get my mind around a solution for this team. Simply put, the Patriots franchise is where we would like this team to be, but after today that seems so far out of reach. I really dont know who to blame. Preparation looked to be the major issue. We simply were not prepared to play this team today, mentally or physically. This is the most lop-sided loss I can remember being a part of as a Redskin fan. I still believe the franchise is in better shape than we have been in for quite some time but, this was a sign of how much still needs to be done.

Has any team looked prepared or ready to play the Pats this season? They have steamrolled every team that they have played.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

jmooney wrote:Ive set here and thought for a few hours now and I just cant seem to get my mind around a solution for this team. Simply put, the Patriots franchise is where we would like this team to be, but after today that seems so far out of reach. I really dont know who to blame. Preparation looked to be the major issue. We simply were not prepared to play this team today, mentally or physically. This is the most lop-sided loss I can remember being a part of as a Redskin fan. I still believe the franchise is in better shape than we have been in for quite some time but, this was a sign of how much still needs to be done.

Has any team looked prepared or ready to play the Pats this season? They have steamrolled every team that they have played.

Yup... they are on track to a historic season... this could be one of the 2 or 3 best teams ever. As teams go, they are a freak of nature.

The Pats may be on a track to break reords but when you run up the score just to humiliate, teams never forget. All teams get their turn in a cycle. The Pats are going to be down one of these years and you can bet that the game films from this year will be played over and over and over again. 4th and 1 to stack on points is just rubbing it in. I look forward to the day the Pats are down.