The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

VetSkinsFan wrote:Sometimes, life isn't fair. Maybe this is one of those times for Lloyd.

Great attitude for a losing franchise to have. A franchise that hasn't done anything memorable on a national level since 1992.

VetSkinsFan wrote:The FACT is that he HASN'T performed.

Who really has performed on this offense?
Moss and his 1000 dropped passes this season?
What about all those errant passes Jason has thrown?
eys blocking?
Betts looking like the Betts from 2005 and back?
The lack of a pass rush?
The terrible two minute drill?

VetSkinsFan wrote: If he "hasn't gotten enough balls his way" or "hasn't been given a fair shake" is really irrelavent.

It is when your position dictates that you have the ball to help the team.

Funny how nobody is mentioning how well he blocked last season despite not getting many passes thrown his way.

VetSkinsFan wrote:He's NOT performed with the opportunities he's been given.

1. A questionable pass by JC that got picked off.
2. An overthrown pass out of the endzone by JC.
3. An extremely high pass by JC that got negated due to a penalty Lloyd didn't commit. Yeah, that his fault.

VetSkinsFan wrote:Couple tha twith his adolescent temper tantrum last year, and that's why he's in the situation he's in.

Didn't Moss spike the ball this year? Let's black ball him too.

VetSkinsFan wrote:If he were to convice the coaching staff otherwise, then he wouldn't be in this predicament.

Our coaching staff hasn't gotten the 2 minute drill right in 4 years...maybe we should convince them to get better. They're not even sure who should be calling what plays at what time and who's offense to use within the quarter.


There just doesn't seem to be ANYONE within this organization that is doing their job 100% right 100% of the time. Lloyd APPEARS to be getting scape goated like this team loves to do when they're about to become failures. They need a player to pin their troubles on just incase they stink it up as usual.

I'm not defending the dude but let's get off of this Gibbs is a mini-god state of mind and can do no wrong.

I'm definitely not in that camp. I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out what in the world Gibbs is thinking when he says that Portis and Betts are interchangeable.

Back to Lloyd though. You do raise a good point about no other receivers having any catches other than Moss and ARE. Everyone knows that Thrash is in there for his blocking and most likely isn't getting any passes thrown his way. So yes it would make sense to put Lloyd in. But if he isn't practicing well then it sends a very bad message to rest of the time by letting him play. On the other hand, maybe he is being unfairly scapegoated by Gibbs and Co. Wouldn't surprise me after the way things went down with Lavar and Arch.

You have to be DROPPING balls to be failing - in order to be dropping balls - they have to be throwing to you. That isn't happening.

And it doesn't have anything to do with doing a show with the guy either... we ain't right now... so since I'm not, why on earth would I subject myself to such garbage unless it was willingly and because I believed it to be the truth? I see the ridiculous, baseless accusations and assertions every day - exactly why I usually don't comment on them. For someone to accuse me of bias is grossly predictable and grossly prejudicial as well. Somehow I manage to put personal bias aside enough to let any jerk off participate on this board - what more proof do you need? Now I need to sugar coat my words because we did a show with the guy last year? That's just not even looking at what I personally am talking about and completely missing the point - bad personnel decisions that cost millions of dollars.

I didn't do a show with Adam Archuletta - doesn't change the fact that what we did with him was as stupid as personnel handling gets in my opinion. Doesn't change the fact that regardless of how much I love my team, I look at that and go, 'Are You kidding Me'... could we be any dumber? And the situation with Brandon is exactly the same.

If you don't put your investments in a position to be successful, then you're just burning cap dollars... and in an age of parity, that just means that you're not putting the best possible product on the field - all of the time.

Throw a receiver the ball more than once a game and see if he catches any - then I'll listen to any arguments you want about 'production'. Until then, it's just lip service and putting a wide receiver on the field strictly to block does NOT qualify as giving him an opportunity. You have to try get him the ball.

I didn't see Moss benched fro dropping a bunch of balls... I didn't see ARE castigated for not coming back to the ball when it caused an interception... it happens, football is full of individual mistakes... they say there's one on EVERY play. I don't see running backs getting 'one fumble opportunity' before they're benched forever - I don't see quarterbacks getting 'one interception opportunity' before they're benched. (Oh wait, scratch that, that's how Brunell got the nod over Ramsey in the first place.)

I don't see people talking about how James Thrash has lined up on nearly every offensive play and not caught a ball yet.

The point is, I don't see this as having anything to do with on-field performance. It's all about being stubborn. It's just childish bullying... and it's not like Brandon is the only one to experience it... Arch went through it, and it's not much different than what Lavar went through.

Who's talking with bias, the guy defending the ostracized player, or the ones that continue to give a management team a total pass when there''s an obvious established pattern of personnel mishandling?

JansenFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

I'm with 1niksder on this, mainly, there is no one on this team that is doing very well with our passing game, begining with the guy calling the plays, then the guy who "reportedly" worked very hard during the off season to be both really up to speed with the playbook and also worked with all the WRs so he would be able to get the ball to anyone then on to the guys who catch the ball - well, those guys have not had a lot of passes that they could catch but I do know that we need to have a much more effective passing game and that is certainly not all B Lloyd's fault.
Actually, I think he could help both Campbell and the team if he got some chances to show what he is capable of Laughing

Obviously the passing game is struggling. Maybe that's why JC and the receivers were staying late after practice. Apparently Lloyd couldn't be bothered to stay late. You say Lloyd could help the team and JC if he got a chance but the best way for that to happen is if he puts in the time with JC. Skipping out on extra work isn't going to endear him to Gibbs or JC.

These seems like a lot of assuming on your part. Do you actually know why he missed the extra session, or are you just a hater who assumes the worst every chance you get?

I admit that I've been overly critical of Lloyd. It's just very frustrating when a player that makes this much and that we traded 2 picks for hasn't accomplished more. We can argue all day whether he has a good attitude or a bad attitude, whether he practices hard or not, if he's a bust or not, but the bottom line is that this situation is hurting the team. All it takes to see that is to look at the number of receptions that our wide receivers have. Maybe Lloyd is a locker room cancer who doesn't practice hard and spends too much time thinking about rapping and not enough time on football. Or maybe he is being unfairly scapegoated by a team that isn't producing and the coaches want someone to pass the blame to. None of this changes the fact that this situation needs to be resolved, whether by deactivating Lloyd and putting this mess behind the team or by putting him in the game. Either way Gibbs needs to do something because this is shaping up to be another debacle a la Lavar and Arch. Personally, as frustrated as I am with Lloyd, I hope that he does in fact get a chance to contribute because I think that he is a very talented player who could really help this team (probably why am I so frustrated by this situation).

BossHog wrote:I didn't see ARE castigated for not coming back to the ball when it caused an interception...

You forgot about staying in bounds while the clocking is winding down with no timeouts left...

No I didn't talk about his complete inability to get open other than in game one either, but that's because I conecde that football players are going to make mistakes... and should be allowed to without fear of never playing again...

CanesSkins26 wrote:Either way Gibbs needs to do something because this is shaping up to be another debacle a la Lavar and Arch.

Don't count on this coaching staff to be the bigger man. They have over 1000 years worth of coaching experience, we won a superbowl last season, who can tell them anything?

CanesSkins26 wrote: Personally, as frustrated as I am with Lloyd, I hope that he does in fact get a chance to contribute because I think that he is a very talented player who could really help this team (probably why am I so frustrated by this situation).

The team must be obsessed with winning, don't look for that here.

If you want a team thats wealthy, has one of the largest stadiums, has games sold out since 1784 and has a 30 year long waiting list...then this is the team to root for.

Look guys, Gibbs has said himself that he hopes Lloyd will become a bigger part of this offense. Gibbs also stated that ey only has 5 receptions himself. You have got to think that Gibbs or Saunders will at least give Lloyd another shot. All though we have just signed Mccardell it does not mean we wont play Lloyd.

Remember we had Rasha Caldwell, Fred Beasley and Omar Stoutmire. Where are they now? They are gone. So lets not close the book on Lloyd just yet. It aint over till the fat lady sings.

It is beginning to sound as both

1) the passing game struggling as a WHOLE, regardless of which receivers or rather what part of the passing game you look at;

-and-

2) a temperamental and frustrated guy who is becoming a bit of a scapegoat.

I really do not know where to start, Jason, the OL and its health, receivers routes, timing between QB and WRs, etc.

Where ??? I do not know. But either we sort this passing game mess out or ... the season may prove to be a lot longer than most of us ever might have wished for. No one-dimensional team can get anywhere in today's NFL. None.

Just sayin'

I really do not know where to start, Jason, the OL and its health, receivers routes, timing between QB and WRs, etc.

I think it's more the offense than anything else. When Gibbs has opened things up (like at the end of the Giants game) the passing game was effective. I think we need to spread the offense out more, use more 3 and 4 receiver sets. Instead of the multiple receiver sets we bunch up the offense, max protect, and send 1 or 2 receivers to run patterns. No wonder JC is constantly checking down to his backs. Look at the good offenses in the NFL....Patriots, Colts, Cincinnati, etc. Those teams spread out defenses to create mismatches and motion/shift to confuse the defense. Those two also generally pass to open up the run and are not conservative. This is the same type of stuff that Saunders did in St. Louis and in KC. He had a prolific passing attack with the Chiefs without having any studs wide receivers because he was able to create mismatches. We don't see any of that here and as a result our offense is predictable and not all that hard to contain. Obviously we have a young and inexperienced qb and I'm not saying that they need to go overboard with the passing game but things need to be opened up or else we are going to struggle offensively all season.

One more thing, how about using the middle of the field?? Some slants, crossing routes, etc. This was a staple in Saunders' system in KC. He constantly had receivers run crossing routes and would also throw to Gonzalez down the seem. We tried it on the first play of the season and it was intercepted but 1 pick is not a reason to totally abandon the middle of the field. The Colts, Patriots, and other good offenses all attack the middle of the field, but for some reason we don't.

It really is very simple to me - we have not been playing that well offensively and everyone needs to pick their game up In my opinion that fact has led some to try and say that certain players are not playing well and the blood-thirsty pack from the media is immediately on hand throwing more blood on the water and distorting comments by players to try and make things even worse.

Next thing you know, fans are jumping ugly on those players and everyone is upset.

This team needs to start playing together and perform up to their potential and everything will be fine - we have not played well yet this year and I think we can play a lot better offensively especially - this is on everyone, not just the players but the co-ordinators and the coaches as well - we are approaching the end of the first quarter of our season and it's time for the players who can make the plays to do that and stop all the bickering.

llyod sucks....

skinsfan1 wrote:llyod sucks....

I couldn't agree more. It is one thing to spell a person's name incorrectly, it is another thing entirely to screw it up when it's been done correctly multiple times in this VERY thread. Amazing. Oh, and thanks for contributing nothing.

Fios wrote:

skinsfan1 wrote:llyod sucks....

I couldn't agree more. It is one thing to spell a person's name incorrectly, it is another thing entirely to screw it up when it's been done correctly multiple times in this VERY thread. Amazing. Oh, and thanks for contributing nothing.

Contributing nothing is a tradition for some posters. The irony is that members of this forum have infinitely more opportunities to contribute than Brandon Lloyd has been given this season and somehow still manage to be 0 for the century.

I'm just waiting to see how many posters change gears the first time Brandon Lloyd makes a play. Then this thread will get interesting.

GSPODS wrote:Contributing nothing is a tradition for some posters. The irony is that members of this forum have infinitely more opportunities to contribute than Brandon Lloyd has been given this season and somehow still manage to be 0 for the century.

Are you serious? Dude, you've been around 2 weeks, and you want to talk tradition? That post HAD to be a joke, right?

Children: a 24 post/day average does not equate "contributing" to this site.



As for Lloyd, if he makes a big play for the first time, it will be just that, the first time. Period.

Bottom line, he and the rest of the receivers need to make the most of their limited (whether intentional or not) opportunities. Brandon, as "great"
as he is, needs to practice AND play above and beyond the expectations this coaching staff had for him in order to see more balls come his way.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

BossHog wrote:I didn't see ARE castigated for not coming back to the ball when it caused an interception...

You forgot about staying in bounds while the clocking is winding down with no timeouts left...

Don't blame ARE for a bad call by the refs... He got out of bounds.

No he didn't. His elbow landed in bounds.

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:

GSPODS wrote:Contributing nothing is a tradition for some posters. The irony is that members of this forum have infinitely more opportunities to contribute than Brandon Lloyd has been given this season and somehow still manage to be 0 for the century.

Are you serious? Dude, you've been around 2 weeks, and you want to talk tradition? That post HAD to be a joke, right?

Children: a 24 post/day average does not equate "contributing" to this site.

Neither does having over 7000 posts.

I still can't understand how people think that Lloyd hasn't had a chance. That might be true for game 2 and 3 this season and the last couple of games last season, but not true over all!

He has been here as long as ARE. He was the #2 WR for much of last year and ARE still out produced him. The Redskins didn't aquire the guy with the intention of not playing him. He was on the field an awful lot last year. The Skins wanted him to contribute, he just didn't. Were there times he was open and didn't get the ball thrown his way? Yes! In the second half of the Philly game, when the Skins needed a score, Lloyd was open for a TD on a corner route. Campbell looked right at him then decided to throw the ball to ey for the first down instead. I don't know if that was just a young QB taking a safer pass for a first down or if Jason looked at Lloyd and didn't throw him the ball because he didn't trust him. We will never know.

Have the Skins handled this situation perfectly? Not even close. Gibbs will give a guy chance, after chance, after chance if he thinks he is a good team player even if he doesn't perform. (see Mark Brunell and Thrash to some extent) But if the guy starts doing things that hurt team chemistry, he isn't going to see much playing time.

Look at the difference between Llyode and ARE. Lloyd throws a tantrum at the side line of a game and starts yelling at someone. While ARE was the first to confront him and put him in check. One is a team player the other isn't.

I just don't think this team has much trust in Lloyd and Lloyd is the only one that can change that.

Lloyd is a tallented young WR, but he isn't as tallented as a lot of us make him out to be. His most productive year was the last year he was in San Fran. He caught 48 balls. Antoher WR in his last year with the Skins that was in Gibbs' dog house caught 51 balls and then asked for a trade. Most people here think poorly about Rod Gardner, but he was much more producttive while he was here than Lloyd has been. Another name comes to mind when thinking of Lloyd, Micheal Westbrook. Yet another player wiith lots of tallent, but just didn't produce. His stats in his first four years are very close to LLoyd's. He did have a a 1000 yard season in his fifth season, but never lived up to his potential.

LLoyd and Westbrook are a lot like each other, Lloyd just doesn't have as much tallent as Westbrook did.

JansenFan wrote:No he didn't. His elbow landed in bounds.

Man I wish I still had that on my DVR, because I looked at the play several times at my my friends (a Stealers fan) house and he thought that ARE got out of bounds too.

Now you make me want to go back and look at it.

In any case, he should have gone out of bounds immediately. I know he thought he had a play, but super-smart football players should know in that situation, you go out of bounds unless there is no one in front of you.

As for talent, Brandon Lloyd has the best hands on the team, according to Jason Campbell. If it's catchable, he'll catch WAY more than he drops. Other than Brunell the game before he was pulled last year and Todd Collings in pre-season this year, no one on this team has been able to get on the same page or Lloyd has been unable to get on the same page, depending on how you look at it.

Lloyd has made a few plays when given the opportunity and has missed a few plays as well. The problem is that he has never been a consistent option on this team, and by that, I mean he is never thrown to on a consistent basis. He gets a ball here and there. That's what I mean when I say he hasn't really given an opportuinity to be a play maker here. He was a number 2 last year who got fewer passes than the number 3 guy, the tight end and the second string running back.

JansenFan wrote:Lloyd has made a few plays when given the opportunity and has missed a few plays as well. The problem is that he has never been a consistent option on this team, and by that, I mean he is never thrown to on a consistent basis. He gets a ball here and there. That's what I mean when I say he hasn't really given an opportuinity to be a play maker here. He was a number 2 last year who got fewer passes than the number 3 guy, the tight end and the second string running back.

Aren't 'thrown at' stats kept by somebody? I'd just be curious to see the numbers of balls thrown their way that each receiver got last year.

They are, however subjective. Being targetted does not always mean being thrown a catchable ball.

JansenFan wrote:In any case, he should have gone out of bounds immediately. I know he thought he had a play, but super-smart football players should know in that situation, you go out of bounds unless there is no one in front of you.

Agreed. For all the crap we (meaning I) give Brandon abbout underperforming, ARE is guilty of "overperforming" (trying too hard) at times. In the preseason and in that instance in question, far too many times has ARE run in place (killing valuable seconds) instead of going out of bounds.

Jason need all the help he can get from his #2 receiver, and stopping the clock during the two-minute drill could really help ease the tension on our young QB. ARE needs to engrain that in his brain. (I wonder if ARE did the same in Blitzburgh, during Big Ben's rookie year.)