The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

ah ah ... nobody said he's a MUST have, just that he's a COULD help

Fios wrote:ah ah ... nobody said he's a MUST have, just that he's a COULD help

everydayAskinsday wrote:and from what Im gathering the Redskins really feel like we might be able to make a run this year at the super bowl..

BnGhog wrote:=D>

That's a little loquacious, no?

I feel better now, does that count?

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Fios wrote:ah ah ... nobody said he's a MUST have, just that he's a COULD help

everydayAskinsday wrote:and from what Im gathering the Redskins really feel like we might be able to make a run this year at the super bowl..

i find it funny how most of you feel the team isnt prepping for that.. Portis is making claims of going to the NFC Championship game ( now I DO KNOW this is just talk and that doesnt make me wet myself with excitment thinking o man if he said it must be true) BUT if you all think this team and the veterans on it dont truly believe that they can make a run then get your heads outta the sand

this team like it or not has about one year left to make a run at it .. we arent going to have this current group of players next year.. clearly with the moves made this offseason we didnt feel like alot of areas needed to be addressed and that despite falling apart last year we were still close

and as I was saying with Keenan .. who we offered the MINIMUM to OOO NOOO all he would be able to do is give Campbell a reliable player a veteran presence in the WR corps ( I know already all about Moss & ARE so dont waste your time bringing that up) and good competition for the guys.. and maybe a voice of reason for a player like Lloyd who needs a father figure of some sort unless you like players throwing fits on the sideline and tossing there helments to the ground in disgust.. cause thats the type of team bravado that gets you to the playoffs

Chris Luva Luva wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...7062002006.html

Oh well I guess since he's rejected our offer we won't be going to the super bowl.

Our closing window of opportunity has prematurely closed shut. Our current WR's will be uninterested in bettering themselves without a father figure in their lives like Keenan.

Link doesn't work.

Just remember this: The next time Randle El or Lloyd outproduce McCardell will be the first time. 2007 very well may be that time, but is it not worth a million bucks just in case it isn't?

everydayAskinsday wrote:i find it funny how most of you feel the team isnt prepping for that.. Portis is making claims of going to the NFC Championship game ( now I DO KNOW this is just talk and that doesnt make me wet myself with excitment thinking o man if he said it must be true) BUT if you all think this team and the veterans on it dont truly believe that they can make a run then get your heads outta the sand

They've believed they could make a run since 1992, your point is what?

Realistically we're not in position knowing what we know thus far about the team to make a run this year.

Realistically next year or the year after would be more feasable with us keeping our core components.

BUT if the team does get broken really bad. Then it'll be about 4 years until we make a run but I don't think that. I think this year will be a playoff year and next year will be the run.

Steve Spurrier III wrote:Link doesn't work.

Just remember this: The next time Randle El or Lloyd outproduce McCardell will be the first time. 2007 very well may be that time, but is it not worth a million bucks just in case it isn't?

There's a first time for everything and 2007 will be it. I have the uptmost faith in our WR corps. They'll be alright.

McCardell would probably be a nice pickup even though I see no need for him.

Does anyone else find it disconcerting that we are pursuing a 37 year old WR and not Alex Brown or Sam Rayburn when we have done absolutely nothing to improve our pathetic defensive line?

These quotes below demonstrate exactly the short-minded viewpoints against a guy like Espy that allowed Keenan McCardell, then a 12th round pick out of UNLV, to go elsewhere on to an arguably hall of fame career. Not saying Espy is a future HOFer or even a starter, but you'll never know if you don't give the guy a chance to prove what he can do. At least put him on the field.

Agreed, McCardell could help, but short term only. If we were to pull the trigger on him, we should have done so when he was chased out of Jacksonville, not when he's on the verge of retiring. Do we really want to keep on with that "quick fix" mindset? I recall all of those great short-term, ex-superstar, hyped fixes like Bruce Smith, Dan Wilkinson, Deion Sanders, Alvin Harper, Adam Archuleta, Mark Brunell, and the list goes on, who helped us go deep into the playoffs. NOT! We need to develop talent too, not just buy it off the shelf.

Come to think of it, Jimmy Smith, McCardell's wide receiving partner in Jacksonville all of those years, was also a later round throwaway by the Dallas Cowboys, who originally drafted and developed him. Enough said there.

Gibbs4Life wrote:

Mike Espy? Please.

Fios wrote:

(sarcastically) Guys, look, everyone knows Espy is the answer based on some training camp and pre-season performances against second and third string players. When is the last time a guy who looked solid in those situations didn't pan out? The answer is never. It's a lock.

Irn-Bru wrote:

Yet if Espy were to disappear tomorrow because we signed Keenan McCardell (just like McCune was cut before '06 to make room on the roster), I doubt anyone would really miss him.

HanburgerHelper wrote:These quotes below demonstrate exactly the short-minded viewpoints against a guy like Espy that allowed Keenan McCardell, then a 12th round pick out of UNLV, to go elsewhere on to an arguably hall of fame career. Not saying Espy is a future HOFer or even a starter, but you'll never know if you don't give the guy a chance to prove what he can do. At least put him on the field.

I'd like to believe that the coaching staff can get a pretty good idea of his ceiling by watching him in practice. When was the last time the Redskins really got burned by letting an unkown quantity get away? Frank Wycheck in 1993? I guess technically David Akers in 1998, but he seems like a special case.

Every time one of these guys walks, we hear about how he is going to make us pay. Derrius Thompson, Darnerian McCants, Chad Dukes, Tydus Winans, Tim Hasselbeck. The list is endless. It's understandable to root for these guys, but keeping marginal prospects for the sake of keeping them is a mistake.

Would we even lose Espy anyway? Is he not practice squad eligible?

HanburgerHelper wrote:Come to think of it, Jimmy Smith, McCardell's wide receiving partner in Jacksonville all of those years, was also a later round throwaway by the Dallas Cowboys, who originally drafted and developed him. Enough said there.

Um, Jimmy Smith was the thirty-sixth overall pick in the 1992 draft who the Cowboys let go because he had to undergo an emergency appendectomy and almost died. He's not a valid comparison to Mike Espy.

Steve Spurrier III wrote:

HanburgerHelper wrote:These quotes below demonstrate exactly the short-minded viewpoints against a guy like Espy that allowed Keenan McCardell, then a 12th round pick out of UNLV, to go elsewhere on to an arguably hall of fame career. Not saying Espy is a future HOFer or even a starter, but you'll never know if you don't give the guy a chance to prove what he can do. At least put him on the field.

I'd like to believe that the coaching staff can get a pretty good idea of his ceiling by watching him in practice. When was the last time the Redskins really got burned by letting an unkown quantity get away? Frank Wycheck in 1993? I guess technically David Akers in 1998, but he seems like a special case.

Every time one of these guys walks, we hear about how he is going to make us pay. Derrius Thompson, Darnerian McCants, Chad Dukes, Tydus Winans, Tim Hasselbeck. The list is endless. It's understandable to root for these guys, but keeping marginal prospects for the sake of keeping them is a mistake.

Would we even lose Espy anyway? Is he not practice squad eligible?

HanburgerHelper wrote:Come to think of it, Jimmy Smith, McCardell's wide receiving partner in Jacksonville all of those years, was also a later round throwaway by the Dallas Cowboys, who originally drafted and developed him. Enough said there.

Um, Jimmy Smith was the thirty-sixth overall pick in the 1992 draft who the Cowboys let go because he had to undergo an emergency appendectomy and almost died. He's not a valid comparison to Mike Espy.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:There's a first time for everything and 2007 will be it. I have the uptmost faith in our WR corps. They'll be alright.

You think you're sneaky, huh, Chris? You misspelled "utmost", so we won't have to hold you accountable for that, huh.

I, for one, have faith in Moss and ARE more than in Lloyd. If the coaches feel Keenan could come in and produce, I'm definitely behind the idea.

HanburgerHelper wrote:These quotes below demonstrate exactly the short-minded viewpoints against a guy like Espy

Also, you're confusing short-sighted with pragmatic. No one here is saying cut Espy and sign McCardell, what's being said is that there is a reasonable chance that Espy's pre-season heroics will remain just that. Despite the implication, we're not consumed by the hype of a name (and note that most of your examples are from years ago so they hold no water), we just recognize that the stories of guys who look great now are much more prevalent than the times that translates into on-the-field success. Of course it would be tremendous to have a guy like Espy win the job and prove his worth but the chances of that happening are slim.

Fios wrote:

HanburgerHelper wrote:These quotes below demonstrate exactly the short-minded viewpoints against a guy like Espy

Also, you're confusing short-sighted with pragmatic. No one here is saying cut Espy and sign McCardell, what's being said is that there is a reasonable chance that Espy's pre-season heroics will remain just that. Despite the implication, we're not consumed by the hype of a name (and note that most of your examples are from years ago so they hold no water), we just recognize that the stories of guys who look great now are much more prevalent than the times that translates into on-the-field success. Of course it would be tremendous to have a guy like Espy win the job and prove his worth but the chances of that happening are slim.

amen to that

But, But, But McCardell is a good vet with good hands.

But, but, but, Epsy could be good in the future.

IN EITHER CASE THEY ARE NOT STARTERS.
If we get Mccardell. He will HAVE to be replaced by 2008 or if we keep Epsy he MIGHT have to be replaced by 2008. Which is better? Humm. Have to, or Might have to.....

Here is my think, guys keep saying Mccardell is proven vet with good hands. And he did better than ARL and BL last year. Well, Somebody please tell me how many droped balls he had. How many times was he thrown to VS ARL and BL and same for droped balls. Thats the ONLY way to tell . Plus, I don't think he would have lost his job haveing the receptions and yards he had alone. He lost his starting job for other reasons. I dont know what the reason is but its not because of the receptions and yards. Maybe, droped ball, or not being open enough. Think about this he was with Charger right???? They have that one guy that had more touchdowns in NFL history last year. Hell, McCardell had atleast a 5 second jump on any defense because of LT, they had to watch him. That being said, he should have had way more yards.....

you know what he can do to help other than just makes catches.. teach guys like Lloyd how to run proper routes.. thats just one of the many things having a vet like him can help with.. I dont need him to produce big numbers it would just be nice to have a guy like that for cheap to rub off on some of the unpolished players like Lloyd and ARE and even Espy

Gibbs and Staff obviously see a need at WR. There are worse players we could sign.

might as well check out me-shawn

Fios wrote:Also, you're confusing short-sighted with pragmatic. No one here is saying cut Espy and sign McCardell, what's being said is that ...

... someone likes to speak through both sides of his mouth by means of subtle changes in tone and emphasis totally unappreciated by most single-minded posters in this thread.

I agree: This should be sorted out in a DOG FIGHT. Choose your weapon: planes, gloves or ... Oooops!

Errrr ... what? If you're suggesting I am playing two sides of a fence, that would be inaccurate.

Steve Spurrier III wrote:So the Redskins signing Smoot and Fletcher for $50 million is an offseason of restraint, but adding Keenan McCardell for $1 million puts Snyder "on the loose"? What am I missing?

Good question but not in the singular.

1) You are missing the point that a MLB was an area of need for a player knowledgeable about the defensive scheme.

2) You are missing the point that CB was an area of need for a player knowledgeable about the defensive scheme.

3) You are missing the point that WR is not an area of need as much as the DL and a guard at the OL.

4) You are missing the point that our current roster of WRs did not perform well and no real opportunity to do so last season mainly due to instability at the QB position and dismal defensive play.

5) You are missing the point that we have a solid group of WRs and I would rather keep James Thrash than KM.

6) You are missing the point that with very few exceptions, the Skins have not given a true opportunity to young talent to develop. Antonio Pierce is a perfect example of a success and the short-sightedness of the FO. We know how that one went.

7) You are missing the point that bringing a veteran in the downhill part of his career, even just for competition, sends the wrong message to your receiver corps and even a worse signal to your young players and members of the practice squad.

Conversely, -I- am missing one point:

It is absolutely astonishing to witness how the Danny Snyder culture to bring finished past stars at the expense of young talent has permeated the "mentality" of some sectors of the Redskin fan nation.

,

RiC

Fios wrote:Errrr ... what? If you're suggesting I am playing two sides of a fence, that would be inaccurate.

No, one leg on one side of the fence and the other on the opposite side would not be inaccurate, it would be painful.

So, if I have this correctly, the team has legitimate positions of need so long as those adhere to your beliefs but if that same group of coaches feel an additional wideout like McCardell can help, that's symbolic of putting flash before substance?

Fios wrote:So, if I have this correctly, the team has legitimate positions of need so long as those adhere to your beliefs but if that same group of coaches feel an additional wideout like McCardell can help, that's symbolic of putting flash before substance?

No, you do not have it correctly. The logic is different:

WHATEVER the FO and the coaches are purported in the media as -thinking- is right and will win us a Superbowl.

Conversely:

WHATEVER the FO and the coaches are -not- purported in the media as -thinking- is wrong and will keep us down as the laughinstock of the NFL.