Everything that is wrong with this team...

[frankcal20]

I'm sure Miami was in there.

[welch]

On the basic question:

Do you have faith in Danny boy and Vinny C making personel decisions?

:

Are we sure that Snyder and Cerrato make the personnel decisions? My impression is tha Gibbs and the coaches say what players they want, and Snyder finds a way to get them, and to keep the Redskins under the salary cap.

No, I don't know exactly what decisons Cerrato makes.

[thaiphoon]

My impression is tha Gibbs and the coaches say what players they want, and Snyder finds a way to get them, and to keep the Redskins under the salary cap

I think that may be the problem though. You need a GM to step in and say "NO" now and then to the coaches who want to "win now" at the expense of the future. You need someone who is taking a long view of things and then make decisions that balance between them. Cerrato isn't that guy.

[frankcal20]

I would love for us to get an AJ Smith type GM. Our team would be awesome with the resources our owner allots us.

[SkinsFreak]

Trade Options Fall Through, So It's Landry
By Gary Fitzgerald
Redskins.com
April 28, 2007



Brady Quinn and Adrian Peterson--two of the draft's most sought-after players--were still available when it was time for the Redskins to pick.
Redskins team officials braced for phone calls from teams looking to trade up.

What happened?

"It was pretty calm," head coach Joe Gibbs said. "There were some calls that took place, but everyone was pretty happy with just standing pat."

The Redskins selected LSU safety LaRon Landry with the No. 6 pick in the first round. Peterson went seventh overall to the Minnesota Vikings.

Going into the draft, it was thought that teams would trade up to obtain Quinn should the Notre Dame quarterback start to fall down the draft board.

It was thought that the Redskins, who openly courted trade offers in the weeks leading up to the draft, had a degree of leverage at the No. 6 position.

As team after team bypassed Quinn, it became apparent that demand for his services was not as fervent as believed. Quinn ended up dropping all the way to No. 22, where the Cleveland Browns traded up [with the Dallas Cowboys] to obtain him.

"At that pick, we tried to prepare ourselves for what would happen if someone called [with a trade offer]," Gibbs said. "But we also know it's very hard to get something done. Generally, you have to feel like you're going to sit there and make the pick.

"The other part is that [the trade offer] has to be something very valuable before you move off [of No. 6]. It would have to be something very enticing. The value of that pick and the fact that we felt we were getting [Landry] certainly affected us."

Instead of settling on a less-that-ideal trade, the Redskins settled on the defensive player they coveted.

The Redskins drafted Landry to help improve a defense that finished 31st overall in the NFL last season. He joins Sean Taylor, the hard-hitting safety who the Redskins selected with the fifth overall pick in the 2004 NFL Draft.

The Redskins had also identified defensive line as a position of need in the draft. The defense logged a league-low 19 sacks last season and prospects such as defensive tackle Amobi Okoye and defensive end Jamaal Anderson were considered by the team.

In the end, it was safety first.

"With our defensive line, [defensive line coach-defensive coordinator] Greg Blache feels good about it," Gibbs said. "Last year, we added two young linemen in Anthony [Montgomery] and Kedric [Golston]. We're count on Phillip Daniels coming back. We have Renaldo [Wynn] and Andre [Carter] and we're getting Marcus [Washington] back healthy.

"So we felt like there wasn't any pressure for us to do something there. Like we said, at the sixth pick you're going to take a player you feel is a sixth pick. You want that kind of [elite] player, which is what we thing we got."

The Redskins entered Saturday morning with the realization there was not a realistic chance the team could trade up in the draft, Gibbs said.

Asked about the possibility of acquiring Chicago Bears linebacker Lance Briggs using the No. 6 pick, Gibbs replied: "It kind of died off. There were still some calls and some of it concerned that, but nothing really serious."

http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=4039

[Buttercock]

Just for the record, I would like to know what exactly is the job description of Cerrato? Call me old school, but i dont understand why the thought process behind a draft pick or free agent acquisition should go any other way than this...
Gibbs: I want this guy. Danny, can we afford him?
Danny: Yes, sir.
Gibbs: Get him.

p.s.: notice who calls who 'sir.'

[SkinsJock]

I understand the link but why is the whole piece also there? I went to the link and it is the same as the posted piece!

Was there something I missed?

BTW - I think we all understand that Cerrato is not "helping" our team and is hopefully gone soon! - this is not "news"!

[gibbs4president]

I believe that a lot of other teams felt they could wait it out to get the players they wanted this year, and the Redskins had no choice but to take Landry. And honestly, that's a pretty nice consolation prize...

[HardDawg]

Vinny C is the REAL issue with our team. Nuff said!

[old-timer]

I am not looking for anybody's approval or agreement.

Then why do you keep beating this same dead horse over and over again around here?

Because it's true -- with eight years' worth of evidence?

Whatever. You can go around the ENTIRE NFL and point to mistakes. It happens! Last night they talked about how 5 of the last 8 first round picks made by the Browns are no longer on the team. So don't act like no one ever makes a bad decision.

Blamers and complainers, they're all the same... and it's always the same old song and dance. Some of us choose to move on in life...

You're always asking for blind faith in Snyder despite his long track record of failure with this team, and calling people who don't go along to be 'Snyder-haters' or such. I don't buy this song and dance routine.

This year we have huge holes in the D-line, and absolutely nothing has been done to address that, other than a lot of happy talk and what seems like wishful thinking. We don't have much choice in the matter, but still it's starting to wear a little thin.

You're constantly saying that Snyder/Cerrato looks better than the personnel management of the Cardinals or the Browns or the Texans. Why do you always have to compare our management to the worst teams in the league to make us look good? Doesn't that say something right there? If you want to be the best team in the league, or best at anything for that matter, you have to compare yourself to the best, not console yourself that at least you're not the worst. All you're doing in the second case is convincing yourself that mediocrity is fine.

Other people point out the mistakes in certain years of the N.E. Patriots and say well they make mistakes too. That all seems very well until you compare won/loss records. Then that argument makes no sense at all. People don't win Super Bowls with luck, and bad teams aren't bad because of bad luck. Good personnel decisions lead to good teams. Bad decisions lead to year after year of bad teams. Bad decsions are made by bad management. Period.

It's established by their failure to date that Snyder/Cerrato are bad management. You don't have to look far to see how some of the problems are coming about, either. We all know Snyder made hundreds of millions if not billions in advertising. Good for him, but why is he jetting around the country evaluating college players? He should hire someone competent to do that and then sit down and shut up like the rest of us and let people who know what they're doing do the work. Then, if they screw up, fire them and hire someone else.

If Snyder continues to treat this team like a fantasy football team then failure is all we have to look forward to as long as he is in charge.

[SkinsFreak]

You see, some people always have to have some one to blame. I've NEVER argued for Vinny and I've NEVER said Snyder hasn't made mistakes. If you disagree with that, please produce any post of mine that says otherwise.

I'm just not one of those types that sits around and complains about everything. I can't stand blamers and complainers; it's like nails on a chalk board to me. That's what old ladies do, blame and complain all day long. But I've also never made excuses for Snyder. The fact remains that personnel evaluation is very difficult and all teams struggle with that.

I realize Snyder has made mistakes. I'm sure he does too. But I don't dwell on the past. We can't change that. It appears to me that Snyder is making strides and I believe Gibbs has the loudest voice at Redskins Park.

I see Snyder learning from his mistakes. Maybe you don't and that's fine, I respect that. But since Gibbs has come back to town, I see a difference. I hope Vinny leaves and never comes back. Snyder is a first time sports franchise owner, so I'd expect some mistakes. That's human nature. But I see Gibbs as a God sent for Snyder and I truly feel that Gibbs is steering this ship in the right direction, and this offseason is proof of that, to me.

[SkinsFreak]

BTW - I kinda picked up on something that I think is interesting.

In Gibbs pressers over the past week, he has made a point to offer praise for the hard work that Vinny has done. In every one of his pressers, he's said that.

I think I can read between the lines here, and I may be wrong, but...

I honestly feel that Vinny is on his way out the door. Gibbs was trying to give the man a few nice words for the mere fact that Vinny will be looking for a job elsewhere and other teams will be listening. Even though other teams may already know Vinny is worthless, Gibbs was still trying to do the right thing by indirectly attempting to help Vinny out. But I think Vinny is history.

[Redskin in Canada]

That's what old ladies do, blame and complain all day long.

On behalf of the entire group of Ladies in the Third Age, I find this comment chauvinistic, biased and the result of prejudice and ignorance. We Ladies in the Third Age deserve greater respect or else ...

... we will have to have a little conversation with all your female family members in this age group to set you straight.

I see Snyder learning from his mistakes. Maybe you don't and that's fine, I respect that. But since Gibbs has come back to town, I see a difference. I hope Vinny leaves and never comes back. Snyder is a first time sports franchise owner, so I'd expect some mistakes. That's human nature. But I see Gibbs as a God sent for Snyder and I truly feel that Gibbs is steering this ship in the right direction, and this offseason is proof of that, to me.

And this is all fine and good. Nothing wrong with a learning curve. It is to be expected. We share the belief that Joe Gibbs has been the BEST possible influence to teach this guy. No problem here.

Where we have a difference of opinion is in the fact that Joe Gibbs will not be here much longer. Considering that Joe had a 5-year contract, we are supposed to be at a point of winning NOW. We are not. Last season was a tremendous regression in the overall strategic plan. The mistakes made prior to Joe's arrival came to haunt us.

To be fair, even some of the mistakes made by Joe himself became evident last season (Brunell, for example). And some key losses to Free Agency and injuries created a meltdown in Defense.

Our main point has been ALL ALONG that Joe Gibbs needs help. He can not and should not do or even attempt to do it all. That help is not forthcoming. We only have a year or two left. We will have no more Joe Gibbs as a coach after that. It is the URGENCY of change at the top that drives us NUTS.

It would be great if we could close our eyes and just remain positive about the problems in the Front Office. You may select to keep your attitude. I understand it and even admire the loyalty behind it. It pains me to see fans like you and me have their expectations destroyed every season because we are LOYAL though.

[PulpExposure]

I see Snyder learning from his mistakes. Maybe you don't and that's fine, I respect that. But since Gibbs has come back to town, I see a difference. I hope Vinny leaves and never comes back. Snyder is a first time sports franchise owner, so I'd expect some mistakes. That's human nature. But I see Gibbs as a God sent for Snyder and I truly feel that Gibbs is steering this ship in the right direction, and this offseason is proof of that, to me.

Honestly, I think Snyder walked in with the attitude that since he was an extraordinarily successful businessman, he could walk right into the NFL and do better than the other people. He felt this because he had conquered a very cutthroat realm (business), and the NFL is part business...and besides, how hard could it be?

I think he's since learned that's not the way it works. Football is about business, but it's also about football. It's not the same. But that realization can take a long time.

An illustrative example. My father is a physician (a neurologist). He is in a group of roughly 20 other neurologists, a true multi-million dollar corporation. They started in the 70's, and did all of the business management work themselves. It took until the mid 90s before these very intelligent folks woke up and realized they needed an actual business manager, and were amazed to find that their business ran far better afterwards.

They had the arrogance that they were so smart they didn't need outside help. They were wrong.

I think Snyder's coming to a similar conclusion. Just like knowing medicine isn't the same as knowing business, knowing business isn't knowing football. They're both connected...but they're not the same.

[DarthMonk]

Is Vinny's nickname BJ?

DarthMonk

[SkinsFreak]

Where we have a difference of opinion is in the fact that Joe Gibbs will not be here much longer. Considering that Joe had a 5-year contract, we are supposed to be at a point of winning NOW. We are not. Last season was a tremendous regression in the overall strategic plan. The mistakes made prior to Joe's arrival came to haunt us.

I would prefer to wait until after this coming season before I come to any conclusions. The fact still remains that we had tons of injuries on D last year and a steep learning curve with Saunders new offense. This year will tell the tail, IMO. I'm willing to give Gibbs all of those 5 years before I file it under the failure catagory.

Chris Mortensen said it the best. He talked about how we went to the playoffs in 2005 but then sustained a lot of injuries last year. He is the only one in the media that has actually acknowledged that, from what I've heard anyway. He went on to say that he thinks we could easily return to a playoff caliber team again this year. I agree with him and believe we will be much improved this year.

[SKINS#1]

IMO Most of us have not and do not understand what the Redskins need to make the playoffs this year. Like many, I thought we needed a DT and DE but JG tells us they are OK. If this is true, the picks will fill other needs. If this is not true I think the Redskins will struggle and DS needs to find a GM that can help JG make player selections in the future.

[old-timer]

IMO Most of us have not and do not understand what the Redskins need to make the playoffs this year. Like many, I thought we needed a DT and DE but JG tells us they are OK. If this is true, the picks will fill other needs. If this is not true I think the Redskins will struggle and DS needs to find a GM that can help JG make player selections in the future.

It's an axiom in the corporate world that people rise to the level of their incompetence. Nobody disputes Joe Gibbs' talent as a football coach. The jury is still out on his expertise as a GM, however, and so far the results are not looking good. When you add in Snyder's penchant for unaccountably considering himself an instant professional football talent evaluator after a career in advertising, you start to get a feel for the problems here. I don't know how in the world people think Snyder has learned anything so far that would change all of this, it sounds like wishful thinking and blind devotion to me.

Historians of the team will recall that one of the first things that Jack Kent Cooke did after buying the team from Edward Bennett Williams in the late seventies was to hire Bobby Beathard. It was Bobby Beathard who scouted out Joe Gibbs as coach. So one can easily argue that it was Bobby Beathard who took the initial steps to bring glory to this this team (e.g., 1981 draft class, before Gibbs), along with George Allen, who built a winning mentality here as a foundation and acquired Riggo.

Moreover, you will recall that when Gibbs left after the 93 season the cupboard was pretty much bare in terms of talent on this team, and we have been struggling ever since. Reportedly, Joe Gibbs also butted heads with Beathard frequently during their joint tenure, leading to Beathard quitting in 89 and being replaced by the ineffective Casserly. We won the '91 Super Bowl with mostly the personnel that Beathard brought in, and declined thereafter until Gibbs left. When you add that in with Joe Gibbs' struggles since he got back, a pattern starts to emerge; Joe Gibbs' talent as GM is suspect.

[Irn-Bru]

Where we have a difference of opinion is in the fact that Joe Gibbs will not be here much longer. Considering that Joe had a 5-year contract, we are supposed to be at a point of winning NOW. We are not. Last season was a tremendous regression in the overall strategic plan. The mistakes made prior to Joe's arrival came to haunt us.

To be fair, even some of the mistakes made by Joe himself became evident last season (Brunell, for example). And some key losses to Free Agency and injuries created a meltdown in Defense.

Our main point has been ALL ALONG that Joe Gibbs needs help. He can not and should not do or even attempt to do it all. That help is not forthcoming.

Premises:

(1) RiC argues that Joe Gibbs does not have the help, organization-wise, that he needs to succeed.

(2) Joe Gibbs has recently confirmed that the structure of the organization is steady going into this year.

Let's suppose for a moment that both (1) and (2) are true, as they may be without contradiction. If that is so, then the conclusion is. . . .well, the conclusion is troubling.

I fear that both RiC and Gibbs may be telling the truth on this one, though.

[Redskin in Canada]

When you add that in with Joe Gibbs' struggles since he got back, a pattern starts to emerge; Joe Gibbs' talent as GM is suspect.

I am not sure about this final conclusion. One of the main problems with this franchise is that nobody really knows who calls the shots. It appears to be a leadership by Committee and you know what the definition of a Camel is: a horse designed by a Committee!

I wish I could praise Joe for the good hirings and blame Danny and Vinny for all the bad ones. I have every temptation to do so. In fact, one can argue that with a few sad exceptions, the record of player acquisition has actually improved considerably over the level we had prior to Joe's arrival. Among the very few signings that we can attribute 100% to Joe, there have been several good successes and some few but very noticeably bad failures. The record is mixed but it is still insufficient to draw a firm conclusion.

Beathard was not a perfect President or GM either. He was great but he knows that he made some very big mistakes with first-round choices in the past. But I would agree that he and his scouts should take full credit for the glorious 81 Draft and many fantastic player acquisitions after that.

However, the current Committee structure makes it actually impossible to determine exactly what is Joe's record as a player recruiter. I feel that the main problems at the Front Office are:

1) The lack of a single leadership with complete authority and accountability.

2) The intervention of Dan Snyder as a "talent evaluator".

3) The poor scouting track record of Vinny even prior to the arrival of Joe Gibbs.

I wish Joe would move as GM at the end of his tenure as coach. We would know for sure then where the buck actually stops.

Dan has been slowly but surely been toned down in relation to his old ways. He is not a walking disaster anymore. But you are RIGHT. He will never be an expert in a field that is not his own. He never played. He never coached. He is not a football person. This is his first experience in the world of professional sports, not only the NFL. It may work in the field of advertising. It certainly does not work in the field of football. The further he stays away from the operations, the better.

As far as the record of Vinny is concerned, well, it speaks for itself. He has happily embraced the mentality to build a top-heavy team through expensive free-agency. When he has an owner willing to -try- to buy a Lombardi Trophy, he can afford to be lazy and inefficient. He can afford to underestimate the value of Draft picks and a good scout department. All you have to do is manage the cap with large signing bonuses and back-loaded contracts. It works for -him- and the revenue of the franchise very well, thank you very much. It just won't get the Skins over to win a Championship.

I am not ready to say and have never said that the tenure of Joe Gibbs is a failure. I feel that this ship was lost at sea and sinking. He came to the rescue and it has taken a great deal of effort to right it. However, we are running out of time with him as a coach. He is not getting the help that he needs.



PS My holiday is over today. So, I will hardly have the time to post here in the coming weeks. I have too much to catch up to at work. Happy offseason and Hail to the Redskins! - RiC