The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

SkinsFreak wrote:

chaddukes wrote:Ok, which one was it? The Run game set up the pass or the other way around?

It doesn't matter, it works both ways. The point is not to be one dimensional.

Thank you. The old 'skins weren't. Sure, Gibbs preferred to run first, but you dare not forget about Monk/Garrett/C. Brown (the 'skins made him an All-Pro; so much for 'no passing game back then'), or you WOULD get burned via the pass. The new 'skins are essentially one-dimensional with Brunell behind center.

SkinsFreak wrote:Gibbs is a deciple of Don "Air" Coryell.

Thats right....and when he lost his first five games he switched to a ground it out ball control game with an aggresive ball hawking defense.

I'm not saying that Gibbs didn't employ a passing game. I am saying that he relied on the run game and defense for the majority of his tenure. And, from mid 1981 until around 1989 he was known for being conservative and letting the runners and Defense do the work. Gibbs is a conservative coach........Air Coryell aside. By 1989 the Skins were just plain better and more talented than the rest of the league. His system made ordinary QB's look amazing......this team isn't there yet.

Did I say that Gibbs didn't pass? Did I even say that? No, I said that he is conservative and prefers to run the ball. When Gibbs was aggressive was when he could impose his will on the defense. We aren't there.

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:JH, are you seriously believing that the Skins won't win anymore games at home?????

Maybe I'm just playing the odds.

Did you see the two predictions I made this past weekend?

(1) 4 turnovers v. Philly
(2) Cardinals beating the Cowboys

Both "predictions" were shot down.

Maybe I'm just picking the Skins to lose at home in hopes that my "predictions" will continue to fail?



Seriously, this year's Skins team has shown me nothing thus far so, being realistic, I can almost seeing them lose every single remaining game of the year....and that sucks!

Sure, I don't want that to happen....but until I see better play, unfortunately, that's what I am expecting and, again, that SUCKS!

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:Coming from someone fan enough to get dream seats, this seems irrational. What's next, JH wearing a bag over his head to get on the jumbotron? Bro, it ain't the time to jump off the ledge.

My brutha, you will never, in your life, seeing me wear a bag over my head at a Skins game. I am too proud a fan to do such a thing! I'm also not gonna jump off the ledge just yet...but I gotta tell ya, I'm standing there looking down at the traffic below....thinking about it.

I admire JH's honesty. Being a fan doesn't mean denying reality, and right now, this team stinks.

Mursilis wrote:I admire JH's honesty. Being a fan doesn't mean denying reality, and right now, this team stinks.

True. I just don't think that the QB is the problem.

Justice Hog wrote:

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:JH, are you seriously believing that the Skins won't win anymore games at home?????

Maybe I'm just playing the odds.

Did you see the two predictions I made this past weekend?

(1) 4 turnovers v. Philly
(2) Cardinals beating the Cowboys

Both "predictions" were shot down.

Maybe I'm just picking the Skins to lose at home in hopes that my "predictions" will continue to fail?



Seriously, this year's Skins team has shown me nothing thus far so, being realistic, I can almost seeing them lose every single remaining game of the year....and that sucks!

Sure, I don't want that to happen....but until I see better play, unfortunately, that's what I am expecting and, again, that SUCKS!

Hey, I've made a few bad predictions or two (or a million ) in the past, but, hey, the worst thing that can happen is to deny yourself to see the oportunities this team has to grow and develop by focusing simply on their shortcomings or failures up to this point.

Shoot, if you're gonna go into FedEx expecting this team to lose, that's gonna make for a loooooooooooooong day each time, since you arrive at like 5 AM for games and all.

JH, you also wrote:

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:Coming from someone fan enough to get dream seats, this seems irrational. What's next, JH wearing a bag over his head to get on the jumbotron? Bro, it ain't the time to jump off the ledge.

My brutha, you will never, in your life, seeing me wear a bag over my head at a Skins game. I am too proud a fan to do such a thing! I'm also not gonna jump off the ledge just yet...but I gotta tell ya, I'm standing there looking down at the traffic below....thinking about it.

I hear ya, and I don't doubt your loyalty to the team. This team is good, except that its stock is undervalued right now based on its early returns, know what I mean?

Brighter days ahead. Stay on board.

chaddukes wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:Gibbs is a deciple of Don "Air" Coryell.

Thats right....and when he lost his first five games he switched to a ground it out ball control game with an aggresive ball hawking defense.

I'm not saying that Gibbs didn't employ a passing game. I am saying that he relied on the run game and defense for the majority of his tenure. And, from mid 1981 until around 1989 he was known for being conservative and letting the runners and Defense do the work. Gibbs is a conservative coach........Air Coryell aside. By 1989 the Skins were just plain better and more talented than the rest of the league. His system made ordinary QB's look amazing......this team isn't there yet.

Did I say that Gibbs didn't pass? Did I even say that? No, I said that he is conservative and prefers to run the ball. When Gibbs was aggressive was when he could impose his will on the defense. We aren't there.

You did say he did not employ an "aggressive" passing game. The stats don't back you up, my friend.

I agree with that he used the run to set up the pass. But he did pass, like a banchee. That is not what I infer from your statements. He wants to do the same now and set up Brunell to throw with Portis's runs, but Brunell can't deliver.

Gibbs has to know that's an issue. This season is over and it's time to start focusing on next year and the most critical question is QB. Can Campbell be the guy?

For those who say we have other issues, I agree, but in the end if we solve ALL the other issues and still have a QB who can't throw the ball past the line of scrimage, we will not win the Superbowl. You can point to a list of OK QBs who did win Superbowls, but Brunell is not OK, he's horrible. Gibbs won with 3 QBs, all could throw the ball.

KazooSkinsFan wrote: He wants to do the same now and set up Brunell to throw with Portis's runs, but Brunell can't deliver.

For those who say we have other issues, I agree, but in the end if we solve ALL the other issues and still have a QB who can't throw the ball past the line of scrimage, we will not win the Superbowl.

I would say that Portis hasn't delivered. And we have the 30th ranked defense. We could have Peyton Manning and the 30th ranked defense and we won't win the superbowl either......just ask Peyton!

I never said that Joe Gibbs didn't use the passing game. What I did say is that he prefered to run, ran ball control, and his passing game flourished when we had a run game that could dominate and a defense that could get the ball back. We don't have those things.....so Gibbs becomes more conservative.

chaddukes wrote:

Mursilis wrote:I admire JH's honesty. Being a fan doesn't mean denying reality, and right now, this team stinks.

True. I just don't think that the QB is the problem.

It's among the problems. In three division road games, we've scored no offensive TDs. The offense is pretty stagnant. And, as I've said before, if JC is the "QB of the future", as Gibbs keeps saying, that future needs to come one of these days. Real experience is gained on the field, and so far, JC has none. At this point, what's to be gained by playing Brunell? My fear is that Gibbs wants to keep JC on the bench well into next year, too, which is why he's so reluctant to play him now.

Mursilis wrote:

chaddukes wrote:

Mursilis wrote:I admire JH's honesty. Being a fan doesn't mean denying reality, and right now, this team stinks.

True. I just don't think that the QB is the problem.

It's among the problems. In three division road games, we've scored no offensive TDs. The offense is pretty stagnant. And, as I've said before, if JC is the "QB of the future", as Gibbs keeps saying, that future needs to come one of these days. Real experience is gained on the field, and so far, JC has none. At this point, what's to be gained by playing Brunell? My fear is that Gibbs wants to keep JC on the bench well into next year, too, which is why he's so reluctant to play him now.

I sure hope that isn't the case. I hope that Campbell starts next week, but I have a feeling that Gibbs won't start him until we are absolutely mathematically eliminated.....and if we beat Tampa....well then thats just prolonging the inevitable. I'd rather see us win.....but if it gets Campbell in earlier I'm fine with that as well. If for no other reason we need to see what we have in Campbell.

chaddukes wrote:

Mursilis wrote:

chaddukes wrote:

Mursilis wrote:I admire JH's honesty. Being a fan doesn't mean denying reality, and right now, this team stinks.

True. I just don't think that the QB is the problem.

It's among the problems. In three division road games, we've scored no offensive TDs. The offense is pretty stagnant. And, as I've said before, if JC is the "QB of the future", as Gibbs keeps saying, that future needs to come one of these days. Real experience is gained on the field, and so far, JC has none. At this point, what's to be gained by playing Brunell? My fear is that Gibbs wants to keep JC on the bench well into next year, too, which is why he's so reluctant to play him now.

I sure hope that isn't the case. I hope that Campbell starts next week, but I have a feeling that Gibbs won't start him until we are absolutely mathematically eliminated.....and if we beat Tampa....well then thats just prolonging the inevitable. I'd rather see us win.....but if it gets Campbell in earlier I'm fine with that as well. If for no other reason we need to see what we have in Campbell.

Exactly. And if Brunell starts against Tampa, I'll have a hard time hoping for a win, because a win will further delay Campbell's debut, and it will mean a lower place in the draft order. At this point, playoffs are out of the question, so we're just playing for next year right now.

I agree, lets see what Gibbs thinks!

At this point, playoffs are out of the question, so we're just playing for next year right now.

Not so fast. . .


We've been hearing that for weeks now, and it's a statement that simply isn't true until the math says it is. . .

Irn-Bru wrote:

At this point, playoffs are out of the question, so we're just playing for next year right now.

Not so fast. . .


We've been hearing that for weeks now, and it's a statement that simply isn't true until the math says it is. . .

Ah, Irn-Bru, the eternal optimist! While I truly admire your optimism, I also question your grasp on reality! But to you keeping the faith candle lit despite the howling winds!

Mursilis wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:

At this point, playoffs are out of the question, so we're just playing for next year right now.

Not so fast. . .


We've been hearing that for weeks now, and it's a statement that simply isn't true until the math says it is. . .

Ah, Irn-Bru, the eternal optimist! While I truly admire your optimism, I also question your grasp on reality! But to you keeping the faith candle lit despite the howling winds!

It can be difficult at times but I simply have to keep believing. . .