The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

it's over we can finally stick a fork in this sorry team!

Brunell? enough is enough!! can cambell finally play!!

Do you guys know what is really sad the skins are 2 gms back of the wld card!!!

without portis no chance in hell!!!

the skins will finish 6-10!!

I love gibbs but, maybe this isn't working?

williams and saunders need to go!

cowher is out there?

bye bye to
1. brunell
2. archuletta
3. rogers
4. holdman
5. patten
6. james trash
7. duckett
8. rumph
9. kenny wright
10.
todd collins
i can talk about this anymore i am really upset about this team!!!

Oh well go terps!!! i said they could to a bcs game check out my lounge thread!!

WHY are we this bad??? the packers and my favorite qb favre are doing great with half of the talent and the giants are beat up and the eagels are doing so much with so little!!!!

these teams build a team the right way, with draft picks and young guys, maybe the skins should try it out for a change!!

0421kidwell wrote:WHY are we this bad??? the packers and my favorite qb favre are doing great with half of the talent and the giants are beat up and the eagels are doing so much with so little!!!!

these teams build a team the right way, with draft picks and young guys, maybe the skins should try it out for a change!!

And much of the time, they look good doing it. That's another thing that bugs me. Besides are first two wins, the offense always seems out of sync or like people aren't executing. Most other games I watch, the offenses look fairly fluid. Look at New Orleans. First year coach, first year with NO for Brees, two star rookies (Bush, Colston), yet they're all in sync.

Our first year coordinator can't seem to do anything with the veterans. Players, or coaching?

0421kidwell wrote:it's over we can finally stick a fork in this sorry team!

Brunell? enough is enough!! can cambell finally play!!

Do you guys know what is really sad the skins are 2 gms back of the wld card!!!

without portis no chance in hell!!!

the skins will finish 6-10!!

I love gibbs but, maybe this isn't working?

williams and saunders need to go!

cowher is out there?

bye bye to
1. brunell
2. archuletta
3. rogers
4. holdman
5. patten
6. james trash
7. duckett
8. rumph
9. kenny wright
10.
todd collins
i can talk about this anymore i am really upset about this team!!!

Oh well go terps!!! i said they could to a bcs game check out my lounge thread!!

Why get rid of Wright or Duckett? We've already spent the money on Duckett, we might as well utilize him. If we can keep Duckett, Portis, and Betts, we'd have a VERY VERY good RB situation, they just need to use him. It's ridiculous that this is the FIRST TIME he's touched the ball. Kenny Wright has actually been playing decent ball.

Rogers? Ehh, jury is still out on him. He is actually a very good tackler, he just gives everyone too much damn cushion, he never attacks the ball.

Rogers, Thrash, and Duckett stay...everyone else on that list can go. ESPECIALLY YOU KNOW WHO

Anyone else notice that when we blitz safeties or CBs they never get to the QB? This in turn leaves us badly exposed in downfield coverage.

We can't get pressure when we bring the house on a blitz. It's hard to have a good D when you can't pressure the QB. Gregg managed to do it for two years but the magic has worn off.

I have no idea what the solution is.

Czaban should of directed that question at Gibbs.

SlkyCaramel wrote:

0421kidwell wrote:it's over we can finally stick a fork in this sorry team!

Brunell? enough is enough!! can cambell finally play!!

Do you guys know what is really sad the skins are 2 gms back of the wld card!!!

without portis no chance in hell!!!

the skins will finish 6-10!!

I love gibbs but, maybe this isn't working?

williams and saunders need to go!

cowher is out there?

bye bye to
1. brunell
2. archuletta
3. rogers
4. holdman
5. patten
6. james trash
7. duckett
8. rumph
9. kenny wright
10.
todd collins
i can talk about this anymore i am really upset about this team!!!

Oh well go terps!!! i said they could to a bcs game check out my lounge thread!!

Why get rid of Wright or Duckett? We've already spent the money on Duckett, we might as well utilize him. If we can keep Duckett, Portis, and Betts, we'd have a VERY VERY good RB situation, they just need to use him. It's ridiculous that this is the FIRST TIME he's touched the ball. Kenny Wright has actually been playing decent ball.

Rogers? Ehh, jury is still out on him. He is actually a very good tackler, he just gives everyone too much damn cushion, he never attacks the ball.

Duckett is a FA at the end of the year, and he wont stay

On the bright side. We ran the ball really well and besides a couple eagles drives, we were able to contain them fairly well. If you take away the pick for a touchdown and the fluke fumble recovery for a TD, that is only 14 points scored by the eagles. I especially like the tough goaline stand the defense had!

Also, why would you want to completely overhaul the roster and change coaches again? It generally takes a season to understand a new offensive system. Do you really want to start from scratch next year and suffer the same problems? Lets try to build off the good things we have going for us and spend money wisely to plug a few holes ( DT, CB, S)

reggiebrooks4life wrote:On the bright side. We ran the ball really well and besides a couple eagles drives, we were able to contain them fairly well. If you take away the pick for a touchdown and the fluke fumble recovery for a TD, that is only 14 points scored by the eagles. I especially like the tough goaline stand the defense had!

Also, why would you want to completely overhaul the roster and change coaches again? It generally takes a season to understand a new offensive system. Do you really want to start from scratch next year and suffer the same problems? Lets try to build off the good things we have going for us and spend money wisely to plug a few holes ( DT, CB, S)

I'm with you. It's frustrating to watch this team but it isn't all garbage. Worst of all would be to change our coaching staff now--didn't the late 90's / early 00's teach us anything as fans?!?!

Irn-Bru wrote:I'm with you. It's frustrating to watch this team but it isn't all garbage. Worst of all would be to change our coaching staff now--didn't the late 90's / early 00's teach us anything as fans?!?!

We definately need to keep the coaching staff intact but it wont matter who's coaching as long as the core philosophy of this team remains intact. If we dont start using the draft and grow our own players, we'll never be successful. Never.

Irn-Bru wrote:

reggiebrooks4life wrote:On the bright side. We ran the ball really well and besides a couple eagles drives, we were able to contain them fairly well. If you take away the pick for a touchdown and the fluke fumble recovery for a TD, that is only 14 points scored by the eagles. I especially like the tough goaline stand the defense had!

Also, why would you want to completely overhaul the roster and change coaches again? It generally takes a season to understand a new offensive system. Do you really want to start from scratch next year and suffer the same problems? Lets try to build off the good things we have going for us and spend money wisely to plug a few holes ( DT, CB, S)

I'm with you. It's frustrating to watch this team but it isn't all garbage. Worst of all would be to change our coaching staff now--didn't the late 90's / early 00's teach us anything as fans?!?!

Generally you're right, but this is the same coaching staff that seems to prefer losing with Brunell vs. winning with any QB under age 30. That huge blind spot, and the mindless trading away of draft picks, isn't exactly an endorsement of our current staff. Seems like most of this year's first-year head coaches are doing as good as, or better than, Gibbs 2.0. Heck, rookie head coach Eric Mangini up there with the Jets (5-4) just knocked off the Patriots, and the Jets haven't got half the talent we're wasting here. I'm not for a coaching change right now, but if Gibbs sticks with Brunell again next Sunday, it may be a different story.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:I'm with you. It's frustrating to watch this team but it isn't all garbage. Worst of all would be to change our coaching staff now--didn't the late 90's / early 00's teach us anything as fans?!?!

We definately need to keep the coaching staff intact but it wont matter who's coaching as long as the core philosophy of this team remains intact. If we dont start using the draft and grow our own players, we'll never be successful. Never.

But is it not our current head coach who favors free agents over the draft? Gibbs is the one behind all those picks going to other teams. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the new arrangement, but isn't Gibbs basically running the personnel department now, not Snyder?

Mursilis wrote:Generally you're right, but this is the same coaching staff that seems to prefer losing with Brunell vs. winning with any QB under age 30.

I think that's not true to reality. We only have one QB under 30 on our roster currently, and he doesn't seem ready to play. Ramsey, also under 30, was on this squad but isn't a good enough quarterback even to be 2nd string on a team that seemed to need him when they picked him up.

I agree that personnel decisions have had a bad impact on this team--it's something that I'm generally researching at the moment--but it looks to me like you're suspiciously pinning nearly all of our troubles on who's starting at QB once again. . .which, when I watch our team on Sunday, is one of our smaller problems right now. To talk QB decisions and coaching changes based on that alone is to ignore the majority of what's problematic with this team.

Irn-Bru wrote:

Mursilis wrote:Generally you're right, but this is the same coaching staff that seems to prefer losing with Brunell vs. winning with any QB under age 30.

I think that's not true to reality. We only have one QB under 30 on our roster currently, and he doesn't seem ready to play. Ramsey, also under 30, was on this squad but isn't a good enough quarterback even to be 2nd string on a team that seemed to need him when they picked him up.

I agree that personnel decisions have had a bad impact on this team--it's something that I'm generally researching at the moment--but it looks to me like you're suspiciously pinning nearly all of our troubles on who's starting at QB once again. . .which, when I watch our team on Sunday, is one of our smaller problems right now. To talk QB decisions and coaching changes based on that alone is to ignore the majority of what's problematic with this team.

JC doesn't seem ready to play? Based on what? He was no worse than Brunell in the preseason, and he can't be much worse than Brunell now. Brunell offers nothing 20+ QBs in this league, and probably several college QBs, can't also offer with our talent on offense.

And yes, Brunell isn't the only issue, by a longshot. But Gibbs' decision to stick with him is perhaps emblematic of a refusal to learn and adapt to what's required to be successful these days. It's literally 2004 all over again.

Mursilis wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:I'm with you. It's frustrating to watch this team but it isn't all garbage. Worst of all would be to change our coaching staff now--didn't the late 90's / early 00's teach us anything as fans?!?!

We definately need to keep the coaching staff intact but it wont matter who's coaching as long as the core philosophy of this team remains intact. If we dont start using the draft and grow our own players, we'll never be successful. Never.

But is it not our current head coach who favors free agents over the draft? Gibbs is the one behind all those picks going to other teams. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the new arrangement, but isn't Gibbs basically running the personnel department now, not Snyder?

Yeah, be bought into the system. Its deeper than Gibbs. Danny is ONLY going to bring people in who can flow with him and Vinny. Dont expect someone with any balls to get hired, they'll get what Marty got.

Mursilis wrote:JC doesn't seem ready to play? Based on what? He was no worse than Brunell in the preseason, and he can't be much worse than Brunell now. Brunell offers nothing 20+ QBs in this league, and probably several college QBs, can't also offer with our talent on offense.

Based on the coaches decisions, history, and the way that I see things right now. . .which is about all we have to go on as fans (each with their perspective on how they see things). IF Jason gave us a better chance to win on any particular week, in the coaches eyes, we'd have seen him by now. I also don't think his first start is too far off.

You have to remember that "ready" is word that is here relative to everything else around him. Campbell doesn't seem "ready" to play in my eyes. However, in another sense of the word, Campbell is "ready" to play--or at least we'd better hope that he is!--and I feel good about his ability to step in and begin learning the ropes.

It's just that sometimes, when QBs are "ready" to play, that doesn't mean that they give a team the best chance to win. So that's what I meant originally, when I used the term "ready" in the former (relative) sense, not the latter.

I'm also ready to see Cambell play but agree with FFA in that we both feel that Gibbs/Saunders are not ready to play him just yet. However, I also think that this will happen soon.

Campbell can come in and be great BUT IMO that will not give this team a better chance to win any games if the defense continues to play so badly and the offensive game plan and the play of the rest of the offensive players do not dramatically improve.

Much as I hate to say it I would not be surprised to see Brunell again this week for all the same old reasons. Gibbs does not think that is as big of a problem as the other parts of our football team.


If there is one good thing about this it is that with the terrible effort by our defense and offense this year no other team will be threatening to take any of our coaches away this year - although that possibility might not be a bad idea for some here

Irn-Bru wrote:Based on the coaches decisions, history, and the way that I see things right now. . .which is about all we have to go on as fans (each with their perspective on how they see things). IF Jason gave us a better chance to win on any particular week, in the coaches eyes, we'd have seen him by now. I also don't think his first start is too far off.

You have to remember that "ready" is word that is here relative to everything else around him. Campbell doesn't seem "ready" to play in my eyes. However, in another sense of the word, Campbell is "ready" to play--or at least we'd better hope that he is!--and I feel good about his ability to step in and begin learning the ropes.

It's just that sometimes, when QBs are "ready" to play, that doesn't mean that they give a team the best chance to win. So that's what I meant originally, when I used the term "ready" in the former (relative) sense, not the latter.

Where do you believe he isnt ready?

I honestly, can't see where he could be any worse at this point in the season. Brunell made rookie mistakes left and right. And IMO the team doesn't even allow Brunell to use his veteran skillset. He can't call audibles, he can't choose plays... He basically runs the play dictated to him and he's no longer able to execute when given time. Its just a fact.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Yeah, be bought into the system. Its deeper than Gibbs. Danny is ONLY going to bring people in who can flow with him and Vinny. Dont expect someone with any balls to get hired, they'll get what Marty got.

(if there were a standing ovation emoticon, I'd use that)

Irn-Bru wrote:

Mursilis wrote:JC doesn't seem ready to play? Based on what? He was no worse than Brunell in the preseason, and he can't be much worse than Brunell now. Brunell offers nothing 20+ QBs in this league, and probably several college QBs, can't also offer with our talent on offense.

Based on the coaches decisions, history, and the way that I see things right now. . .which is about all we have to go on as fans (each with their perspective on how they see things). IF Jason gave us a better chance to win on any particular week, in the coaches eyes, we'd have seen him by now. I also don't think his first start is too far off.

That's the crux of it all - 'in the coaches' eyes'. Maybe it's time for an eye exam?

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Mursilis wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:I'm with you. It's frustrating to watch this team but it isn't all garbage. Worst of all would be to change our coaching staff now--didn't the late 90's / early 00's teach us anything as fans?!?!

We definately need to keep the coaching staff intact but it wont matter who's coaching as long as the core philosophy of this team remains intact. If we dont start using the draft and grow our own players, we'll never be successful. Never.

But is it not our current head coach who favors free agents over the draft? Gibbs is the one behind all those picks going to other teams. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the new arrangement, but isn't Gibbs basically running the personnel department now, not Snyder?

Yeah, be bought into the system. Its deeper than Gibbs. Danny is ONLY going to bring people in who can flow with him and Vinny. Dont expect someone with any balls to get hired, they'll get what Marty got.

Gibbs liked to trade away draft picks his first time in town also. I don't think there's been a single personnel move Gibbs hasn't personally greenlighted. Yes, Snyder does look for yes-men (Vinny) to run his team, but I don't think he'd ever stand up to Gibbs. Gibbs is a legend and old enough to be Snyder's dad - I don't think Snyder's leading him around in the least.

Irn-Bru wrote:I'm with you. It's frustrating to watch this team but it isn't all garbage. Worst of all would be to change our coaching staff now--didn't the late 90's / early 00's teach us anything as fans?!?!

I agree with this. Us fans need to take a deep breath and realize that while this season is a tragedy, we're not the Cardinals or the Raiders (even though our records are virtually the same )

Now is not the time to be firing coaches, especially Al Saunders. With his track record he deserves at least one more season to get things going. As for the roster, we definitely need help in some areas, but the core pieces are there, especially on offense.

We need to draft, draft, draft. Build team unity and continuity with core guys like Santana, Clinton, Randy Thomas, Marcus Washingtion, etc.

You can't buy (or hire) a championship.
You can't buy (or hire) a championship.
You can't buy (or hire) a championship.

ClintonHill wrote:I agree with this. Us fans need to take a deep breath and realize that while this season is a tragedy, we're not the Cardinals or the Raiders (even though our records are virtually the same )

The 49ers have a better record than us....we're worse than they are.

ClintonHill wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:I'm with you. It's frustrating to watch this team but it isn't all garbage. Worst of all would be to change our coaching staff now--didn't the late 90's / early 00's teach us anything as fans?!?!

I agree with this. Us fans need to take a deep breath and realize that while this season is a tragedy, we're not the Cardinals or the Raiders (even though our records are virtually the same )

Now is not the time to be firing coaches, especially Al Saunders. With his track record he deserves at least one more season to get things going. As for the roster, we definitely need help in some areas, but the core pieces are there, especially on offense.

We need to draft, draft, draft. Build team unity and continuity with core guys like Santana, Clinton, Randy Thomas, Marcus Washingtion, etc.

You can't buy (or hire) a championship.
You can't buy (or hire) a championship.
You can't buy (or hire) a championship.

Ultimately you're both right, especially about the need to 'draft, draft, draft'. Unfortunately, the draft pick cupboard is a little bare right now, although our first rounder should be pretty good come the offseason.