The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Ok are you saying the same thing about Bledso throwing a pass to T.O. that should have been picked off by Carlos and returned for a T.D.? How about Manning jr. with 5 int. yesterday? I guess they are dumb also right. They need to be replaced. Brunell threw one intr. get over it. He was flushed out of the pocket to his right several times which is the wrong way for the left hander to throw from causing balls to fall short. How about we max protect the left and run out of the pocket to the left? Lets stop the Brunell bashing. Just about every other post is about Brunell. How about picking on the OL for not blocking long enough or RB running into a pile of people instead of cutting back. How about Saunders for putting a RB on a DE for blocking detail. Yea that worked well all night.

Mursilis said it better than I can: All those other QBs you mentioned won... and don't take my word for it. Did you hear what hall-of-fame ex-coach John Madden said? He said, and I'm paraphrasing here, that the Redskins aren't a very good team and they have the wrong guy playing QB in this system or something to that effect. Brunell isn't the lone reason for last night's debacle, but he was a HUGE contributing factor.

hailskins666 wrote:isn't brunell supposed to read the defense pre snap? and if he sees a big mismatch like a back on an end, shouldn't he audible out, if the play isn't designed to get the ball out quick?

I dont think he has the authority to do so. This has been a big gripe of mine with Gibbs and now Saunders. Neither coach allows him to "Peyton" a play. Now Gibbs goes on and on about how he likes his veteran leadership but stifles it during the game....

Mursilis wrote: Has any team come back from 0-2 and won the Super Bowl?

After two attrocious games you're still thinking about the superbowl??? wow, I'm impressed.

IT IS JOE GIBBS FAULT. Nothing was working on O, the defense got tired from being on the field all day long and, nothing happened. Not even in the final quarter when eveything was lost, just to give JC some playing time and a feel of the NFL. The guy hasn't played a real game in over 2 years and a clipboard won't help him much come playing time. If Gibbs keeps Brunnel in, we not only won't make the playoffs, next year, we'll still have JC as an inexperienced QB.

Gus

GibbsAcolyte wrote:

Redskin Don wrote:I can't think of a single super bowl champion that didn't have strong, consistent QB play. We seldom had that last year.

Baltimore won with Trent Dilfer. They went an entire month without scoring an offensive TD!

You gotta admit, though, that was pretty good consistency.


BTW - for those wondering about Campbell wiothering away while holding a clip board, you just have to look across the country at what Phillip Rivers is doing in Oakland. True, he's played some bum teams, but he's done well, eventhough he'd never started a game until this year.

Somewhere back in the posts, someone said that Brunell has only had 2 bad games. Wrong, Brunell has had 5 conseutive bad games, going back to the last 3 from last year.

I voted that Brunell was the problem because I think he is the major problem. Not that he is alone or that he personally was responsible for the losses this year or that he is not trying to the best of his ability. But the quarterback position is the focal point and right now it is a bad focal point as his ability to provide leadership is failing.

Another poster notes that Gibbs won 3 super bowls with 3 different quaterbacks. True, but in each case, the quarterback was not the best nor the worst in the leage. They were serviceable. Brunell is no longer serviceable. I think that Brunell is now 5th from the bottom in efficiency. Until the final irrelevant drive, Brunell had a 26.6 quarterback rating.

The Houston game will be the tell-all. If Brunell is as bad there as he has been the last 5 games, the coaching staff should seriously look at the ramifications of continuing down the path they seem to have chosen.

Don't be so bold as to down play the Texans. They have scored more points that the Redskins in the first 2 games this year. Granted not much more but more (34 for the Texans vs 26 for the Redskins). So next Sundays game is not a given or even a probably win.

Baltimore won with Trent Dilfer. They went an entire month without scoring an offensive TD!

Granted. Name another super bowl winner that had QB play like that. I sure can't think of one.

There are a few QBs with bad passer ratings right now, and I think that some here would rather have anybody just to get rid of Mark - Not going to happen!
Kerry Collins/TEN = 26.9
Jake Plummer/DEN = 38.6
Chris Simms/TB = 40.0
Jake Delhomme/CAR = 61.5

Mark Brunell = 57.7

and Tom Brady is at 77.6

I just do not see Gibbs doing this for a little while - I agree that Cambell will play soon but only if this situation does not get better.

gus wrote:

Mursilis wrote: Has any team come back from 0-2 and won the Super Bowl?

After two attrocious games you're still thinking about the superbowl??? wow, I'm impressed.

IT IS JOE GIBBS FAULT. Nothing was working on O, the defense got tired from being on the field all day long and, nothing happened. Not even in the final quarter when eveything was lost, just to give JC some playing time and a feel of the NFL. The guy hasn't played a real game in over 2 years and a clipboard won't help him much come playing time. If Gibbs keeps Brunnel in, we not only won't make the playoffs, next year, we'll still have JC as an inexperienced QB.

Gus

Wow... Are you a professional analyst or did you just stay at a Holiday Inn last night??? Seriously though. You are right on point. What would have been the problem with putting Campbell in with 10:00 minutes left??

Finally someone that is not awed by Joe Gibbs' rings in the past. We don't live in the past and Joe Gibbs' past don't mean jack right now. Gary Clark, Riggo, Dexter, etc. aren't coming through the door to save the day. It's time for Joe to face the reality that "his guy" can't get it done. If anything, Joe is slowly tainting his legacy with his stubborness and loyalty to a QB that is past his prime and his lack of discipline with these players. You can't really say that about Parcells because he has always been a pain in the arse and will continue to be. Maybe Joe needs to get in somebody's face like Parcells and maybe we can get somewhere.

As a Nebraska fan I can honestly say Nebraska has better Qb's than the Skins. At least Zach Taylor is better than Brunell.

Redskin Don wrote:

Baltimore won with Trent Dilfer. They went an entire month without scoring an offensive TD!

Granted. Name another super bowl winner that had QB play like that. I sure can't think of one.

Enough with the "Baltimore won with a weak QB" stuff. The 2000 Ravens D was the best of all time (for the era of the 16-game season). They broke the least-points-allowed record by 10+ points! Is our D looking like the best of all time? If anyone wants to bet that they'll break the single-season points allowed record for a D, I'll take that bet. Tell me how much you want to lose.

SkinsJock wrote:There are a few QBs with bad passer ratings right now, and I think that some here would rather have anybody just to get rid of Mark - Not going to happen!
Kerry Collins/TEN = 26.9
Jake Plummer/DEN = 38.6
Chris Simms/TB = 40.0
Jake Delhomme/CAR = 61.5

Mark Brunell = 57.7

and Tom Brady is at 77.6

I just do not see Gibbs doing this for a little while - I agree that Cambell will play soon but only if this situation does not get better.

Brunell's seasonal rating would be at least 10 points lower if the Cowboys didn't graciously give him that birthday gift of a last drive, when the game was already done. Before that, Brunell's rating was ~26.
And don't compare Brunell to Brady - how many rings does Brunell have? What's Brady's record so far this year? Finally, who's Brady throwing to? Ben Watson, an aging Troy Brown, and some other team's practice squad, and yet he still gets it done. Brady would light it up with a receiving group like we've got. Brunell's got a ton of weapons and can't do a thing with them.

Offense: Brunell problem #1, missing Portis #2, O-Line #3.

Defense: We're pretty good, other than stopping the run. Oh, and we can't stop the pass either. Other than that we're set!

Offense: Brunell problem #1, missing Portis #2, O-Line #3.

Defense: We're pretty good, other than stopping the run. Oh, and we can't stop the pass either. Other than that we're set!

That pretty much sums it up.

Justice Hog wrote:You really can't put this all on Brunell, folks. If the guy had time to throw....ANY time to throw....he probably would have been better.

Our OL stunk up the joint.

3-4 seconds is what you get in the NFL.. not 6-7 seconds

Redskin Don wrote:I can't think of a single super bowl champion that didn't have strong, consistent QB play. We seldom had that last year.

The Baltimore Ravens

The Cowboys were 0-2 in 1993 before they resigned Emmitt. So it can happen. Remember your team was down and out in the middle of the season and then went on a streak to be quite proud.

Mursilis wrote:

riggofan wrote:The worst part is that Brunell will probably look alot better playing against the Texans next weekend.

We're basically replaying the post Marino Dolphins' mistakes right now. Wasting an awesome defense while trying to plug in Fiedlers, Frerottes, Feelys etc; at the most important position on the field.

It's looking like 2004 all over again, except that year, we won the opener.

Has any team come back from 0-2 and won the Super Bowl?

The 1993-94 Dallas Cowboys. They got tromped by the Washington REdskins and then lost to the Bills. They then finished the season 12-2

gilbertarenas wrote:

Redskin Don wrote:I can't think of a single super bowl champion that didn't have strong, consistent QB play. We seldom had that last year.

The Baltimore Ravens

The Ravens Superbowl year with their defense is an anomaly. It was a transition year. No one really had gotten their team together (the Giants went to the Superbowl with Kerry Collins representing the NFC, sound like that really could happen in today's NFL?) Not to mention that defense was a one-of-a-kind.

Let's not fulfill the Reskin fan stereotype and have outrageous expectations of our defense, to play dominant every week despite injury and win games. Just like every defense it plays well, it plays average and it plays bad some weeks. It played average the past two weeks, but good enough to win both games. They made plays, and they gave the offense opportunities (plural) to win.

We've relied on them to win games the past two years, let's not EXPECT it one more year. The defense and Greg Williams are doing a fine job year after year. I doubt anyone wants them to change what they're doing, perhaps tweak things here and there. Greg Williams is doing a terrific job overall.

Cowboys06 wrote:The Cowboys were 0-2 in 1993 before they resigned Emmitt. So it can happen. Remember your team was down and out in the middle of the season and then went on a streak to be quite proud.

A Cowboys fan, injecting hope for the Skins??

Cowboys06 wrote:The Cowboys were 0-2 in 1993 before they resigned Emmitt. So it can happen. Remember your team was down and out in the middle of the season and then went on a streak to be quite proud.

Welcome to the board.

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:

Cowboys06 wrote:The Cowboys were 0-2 in 1993 before they resigned Emmitt. So it can happen. Remember your team was down and out in the middle of the season and then went on a streak to be quite proud.

A Cowboys fan, injecting hope for the Skins??

ok, i am officially in the Twilight Zone. i suspected as much, since we went through a time portal back to 2004... but this just clinches it.

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:



A Cowboys fan, injecting hope for the Skins??

Thats like adding salt to an open wound....

Gus

The fans are to blame.

This is the thrird season we're having to endure Brunnell's weak *** ****. THIRD SEASON.

Everyone points out that fans don't know a thing (which is a lot of times true).

But with Brunell, the whole world knows the truth. Brian Mitchell, Steve Young, Ken Harvey, and pretty much any former player out there. No current players or coaches are going to criticize someone in public.

It hasn't been two games, it's been two years and two games. With the exception of the Tampa and Dallas home game, the offense has looked miserable. Two years ago, it was Joe Gibb's offense, or the O-line. Last year it was the second wide-out,. This year it's Al Saunders or the new offensive scheme. How about the one thing that has been constant, Mark Brunell.

Do you watch other games? QBs make plays when pressured, often causing defenses to stop bringing pressure. Brunell rarely ever makes plays under pressure, and if he does, they don't really make them pay.

Steve Young, who Brunell used to be compared to says that he'll never make it unless he steps up in the pocket, makes the pass, and takes the hit. That's maybe the reason why Young has so many concussions, but also why he is the all-time leader in QB rating.

Brunell brings nothing to the table anymore. He doesn't buy more time scrambling, he doesn't have a gun of an arm, he doesn't read safeties well. Yeah, he may learn to read secondaries better again, but so might Jason Campbell. Either way, don't blame the defense (feared the past two years) and don't blame the running game (Portis had a great year last year). Scoring, which has been abismal, is the QBs doing.

We forget, without the dominant defense the past two years, Brunell wouldn't have the mediocre win-loss record that he does, it would be awful.