The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

blackirishman2006 wrote:I for one think there is no way in heaven or hell Mark brunell can survive 16 games and maybe the playoffs .

OK, I think this is one of the dumbest discussion in THN history.

Have you guys heard of the saying

Don't fix it if it's not broken

Brunell had like 20 something TD's Passes last year and he can still move. AND WE WON A PLAYOFF GAME!

Now I have no idea why anyone thinks we should bring in a rookie and suffer through this season with his growing pains.

Brunell is a veteran and a typical Joe Gibbs Quaterback. And I'm sure JC is a typical Joe Gibbs QB too, but he's only like 25 and hasn't even had a snap yet.

Don't worry his time will come, he's young and so is the rest of our offense, his time will come. But we want to win now, and I really don't think that can happen with a rookie QB.

poper2 wrote:I would think that Joesph Gibbs knows which quarterback will best help the team?
"In Gibbs we Trust"

For two years in a row now, Gibbs has shown terrible lapses in judgement regarding quarterbacks, especially in regard to their playing with injuries. Who can possibly deny that?.

crazyhorse1 wrote:

poper2 wrote:I would think that Joesph Gibbs knows which quarterback will best help the team?
"In Gibbs we Trust"

For two years in a row now, Gibbs has shown terrible lapses in judgement regarding quarterbacks, especially in regard to their playing with injuries. Who can possibly deny that?.

I only think that he Gibbs had one bad year in regards to QB.

I believe that Brunell was still our best option last year, for you and whoever else to blindly ignore the MANY factors that contributed to our loss is terrible laspe in judgement.

I believe Brunell will have one of his best years this year....he has the weapons he didn't have last year. Campbell is the future but Brunell is now. However, I hope JC gets a chance should Brunell go down.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:

poper2 wrote:I would think that Joesph Gibbs knows which quarterback will best help the team?
"In Gibbs we Trust"

For two years in a row now, Gibbs has shown terrible lapses in judgement regarding quarterbacks, especially in regard to their playing with injuries. Who can possibly deny that?.

I only think that he Gibbs had one bad year in regards to QB.

I believe that Brunell was still our best option last year, for you and whoever else to blindly ignore the MANY factors that contributed to our loss is terrible laspe in judgement.

I somewhat agree with this - Gibbs' one bad year was in '04, when he stuck with an injured Brunell far too long, basically costing us the season. Still, even last year Gibbs seemed loyal to Brunell to a fault, even when he seemed too injured to play (like the second Philly game), and Ramsey might've been a better option. I'd be much happier with Brunell as the starter if I thought Gibbs was more willing to send in the back-up (JC or Collins) should Brunell get injured. As it stands now, I think Gibbs will keep Brunell in there as long as he's upright, regardless of whether any injury renders him ineffective as a QB. That might cost us some games in '06, as it surely did in '04. I hope I'm wrong on that.

I'd have to watch the game again but I 100% do not remeber cursing Brunells name during that game. I remeber the offense as a whole sputtering which continued into the playoffs.

Im sorry but his performance CANNOT be accurately judged when...

1. Santana was being covered by 3-4 players.
2. ey was shutdown.

N is Portis being shutdown because there isn't a legitimate threat from out WR corps.

1+2=N


What can I blame Brunell for? I do blame Brunell/offensive coaches for NOT involving Jacobs/Brown into the gameplan earlier in the season. We called on them later on and they failed to rise up to the occasion.

The players/coaches share the blame on that.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I'd have to watch the game again but I 100% do not remeber cursing Brunells name during that game. I remeber the offense as a whole sputtering which continued into the playoffs.

He was something like 9/24; I don't remember the rest of his stats, but they're certainly available online. There were some drops by Royal and others, but not THAT many. It was just like '04 all over again - because of the knee injury suffered a week or two before (Giants game?), he couldn't plant well, and his passes lacked zip and distance.

Like I said before, I still think Brunell's good to great WHEN HEALTHY. My fear is that he'll get injured enough to hurt his play as a QB, but not enough to keep him off the field, and Gibbs will stick with him over the No. 2, even if he's stinking up the joint. I just don't want to see '04 all over again, especially with this talent we have now.

this is just silly,no matter what i say 90% of you guys on here just dont want to see Jason Campbell play its like talking to a door. so whatever,

Brunell goes 9-25 for 25 yards in the playoff and folks here blaming moss and cooley and offensive coaches, i am done, i just hope Gibbs thinks more like me and not your guys,

because either most of you guys on here are 100% cluelesss, or just blind and closed minded, i am out

blackirishman2006 wrote:this is just silly,no matter what i say 90% of you guys on here just dont want to see Jason Campbell play its like talking to a door. so whatever,

Brunell goes 9-25 for 25 yards in the playoff and folks here blaming moss and cooley and offensive coaches, i am done, i just hope Gibbs thinks more like me and not your guys,

because either most of you guys on here are 100% cluelesss, or just blind and closed minded, i am out

Oh dear. I think you should have a glass of warm milk and go straight to bed, young man. We don't stand for little tantrums like that in this house.

Mursilis wrote:I somewhat agree with this - Gibbs' one bad year was in '04, when he stuck with an injured Brunell far too long, basically costing us the season. Still, even last year Gibbs seemed loyal to Brunell to a fault, even when he seemed too injured to play (like the second Philly game), and Ramsey might've been a better option. I'd be much happier with Brunell as the starter if I thought Gibbs was more willing to send in the back-up (JC or Collins) should Brunell get injured. As it stands now, I think Gibbs will keep Brunell in there as long as he's upright, regardless of whether any injury renders him ineffective as a QB. That might cost us some games in '06, as it surely did in '04. I hope I'm wrong on that.

The second Philly game was the last game of the season and we needed it to get into the post season. That's when you want your QB to suck it up and take one for the team. If I remember correctly the Skins won that game with Brunell. It was a game we had to win and there was no lock that Ramsey would have gotten the job done, thankfully Gibbs made the right call. I also think if Gibbs would have been comfortable playing Ramsey in that situation than Ramsey would still be a Redskin. For those that don't know, Mark Brunell has started more than 140 NFL games and some of you are calling for him to be replaced by a guy who hasn't even played a down in a Regular season game. I'd like to see Campbell spend another year on the bench, learning from Gibbs. Whatever he picks up from Saunders, Brunell or Collins will be a bonus. I'm in know rush to see Jason unless he wins the spot in training camp/pre-season.

Hmmm. Gibbs would play Brunell no matter what the injury, just as long as he could stand up.

As 1Nik says, if Gibbs thought he could depend on Ramsey to win the Philadelphia game, then Ramsey would still be a Redskin.

Foolish loyalty? We know who won.

And we've seen it before. Remember that Doug Williams slipped and sprained his knee toward the end of the first quarter in SB 22. Gibbs put in the former golden boy, young Jay Schroeder, ex-starter. By the next series, Williams said he was good to go, and hit Ricky Sanders for the first TD pass in the great avalanche in Q2. We know now that Williams had a stiff, sore, knee, and shouldn't have continued playing. But there are times, as 1Nik said, when the QB has to sacrifice and lead the team.

If Gibbs had felt confident in Schroeder, then Schroeder would have finished the game, and regained his starting job.

Foolish loyalty? Or good judgement?

blackirishman2006 wrote:this is just silly,no matter what i say 90% of you guys on here just dont want to see Jason Campbell play its like talking to a door. so whatever,

Brunell goes 9-25 for 25 yards in the playoff and folks here blaming moss and cooley and offensive coaches, i am done, i just hope Gibbs thinks more like me and not your guys,
because either most of you guys on here are 100% cluelesss, or just blind and closed minded, i am out

So are you saying the only team to be swept by it's division was in the playoffs last year

Why did Philly make the playoffs and not that team in Texas (they had a better record and beat Philly twice)

For the record in the playoff last year Brunell completed 29 of 52 for 283 most of this came from the lost to the Seahawks when he went 22 of 37 for 242 but at no point did he go 9 of anything in the playoffs as a Redskin.

I don't no why you would call a poster cluelesss in a public forum, but considering the post that it is enclosed, most here just wonder if cluelesss is anything like clueless. Other probably thing maybe you should get a clue.

Here's 1: Don't focus on the game with the worst completion percentage as the bases for your argument (He won that game). Try using the stats from the Faiders or second Gints games (he lost both of those). I know it's a limited number of options but those are the only games that he completed less than 50% of his passes.

welch wrote:Hmmm. Gibbs would play Brunell no matter what the injury, just as long as he could stand up.

As 1Nik says, if Gibbs thought he could depend on Ramsey to win the Philadelphia game, then Ramsey would still be a Redskin.

Foolish loyalty? We know who won.

And we've seen it before. Remember that Doug Williams slipped and sprained his knee toward the end of the first quarter in SB 22. Gibbs put in the former golden boy, young Jay Schroeder, ex-starter. By the next series, Williams said he was good to go, and hit Ricky Sanders for the first TD pass in the great avalanche in Q2. We know now that Williams had a stiff, sore, knee, and shouldn't have continued playing. But there are times, as 1Nik said, when the QB has to sacrifice and lead the team.

If Gibbs had felt confident in Schroeder, then Schroeder would have finished the game, and regained his starting job.

Foolish loyalty? Or good judgement?

Hindsight being 20/20, it's easy to sit back and say sticking with Williams was the right call in Super Bowl 22, but it's just as easy to say sticking with Brunell was obviously the wrong call in '04, as he was awful. Regardless of the outcome of this silly little 'net debate, I have few doubts Gibbs will start Brunell in '06, and maybe even keep Campbell at No.3 on the depth chart, depriving him of snaps for another year. Soon enough, time will tell whether it's foolish loyalty or good judgment to go with Brunell. Until then, we'll just have to wait and see.

blackirishman2006 wrote:this is just silly,no matter what i say 90% of you guys on here just dont want to see Jason Campbell play its like talking to a door. so whatever,

Brunell goes 9-25 for 25 yards in the playoff and folks here blaming moss and cooley and offensive coaches, i am done, i just hope Gibbs thinks more like me and not your guys,

because either most of you guys on here are 100% cluelesss, or just blind and closed minded, i am out

Good riddens if thats all it takes for you to leave.

Who would have thought that you'd find people OPINIONS contrasting yours.

Even if I did agree with you, I'd disagree with you just to spite you.

If those of us who dont SOLEY blame Brunell for our loss are "close minded".
Then those of you who blame him are ungrateful and seem to have forgotten what its been like since 1993-2003.

Most of the people that disagree with you aren't saying the Brunell was without fault but for you and others to totally disreguard other MAJOR factors that contributed to the loss.

Dropped passes
Santana being trippled
ey dissapearing from the offense
The running game was not helping
Randy Thomas was gone
James Thrash's broken thumb
Taylor Jacobs being a bum
A bye week in the third week

We would have lost the game even if Brunell was at 100%

One more thing COMPLETELY BLOWS MY MIND....

You people are actually saying that throwing a ROOKIE into that hell of a situation that Brunell was in would have been beneficial to the Skins?

A rookie QB....

with NO PRIOR GAMEDAY EXPERIENCE
being throw into the PLAYOFFS
WITHOUT his #1 WR being open
WITHOUT a #2 WR
WITHOUT a running game...
WITHOUT Randy Thomas...

Do you have any idea what would have happened to him? Remeber Cris Simms? Did you watch how are defense who hardly had a pass rush completely dismantled him? He played all season long and fell apart when it mattered most.

So you people want to put in Jason who has no experience and completely shatter his pride and confidence? Some of you seem so eager to repeat the travesty which was Patrick Ramsey who IMO would have been a decent QB if his confidence/pride wasn't destroyed by Spurrier.

Im SOOOO glad Gibbs is doing what he feels is right and not a wishy washy coach like you all want him to be.

You guys complain about things and then yearn for them a couple of years down the road.

He brought stability and vision to this team and its insane how so many of you want to hop right back into QB controversies among other BS.

because either most of you guys on here are 100% cluelesss, or just blind and closed minded, i am out

Ahhhh... the famous "I'm right, the world is wrong" rant.

First of all, I think that most of us find it just a tad ironic that you would call us "clueless".

Secondly, it's a shame that you haven't read the thread.

As the song goes... "don't let the screen door hit you (on your way out)"

because either most of you guys on here are 100% cluelesss, or just blind and closed minded, i am out

Perfect, CLL. It seems that some have forgotten how Patrick Ramsey was abused, and turned into a flinching machine, constantly waiting for the next hit, by that idiot "old ball coach".

It seems that they have forgotten that no one is better at getting the most from a quarterback than Gibbs. And they seem to think that Gibbs is unaware that what happened to Patrick Ramsey was the result of pure coaching incompetence by the previous administration. Hello, folks. It's Gibbs. The man freaking knows exactly what he is doing. Repeating the mistakes of Steve Spurrier is not in his plans.

Do people actually believe that Joe Gibbs would connive his way into a second Round one pick, select a QB with that pick, and then DO NOTHING WITH HIM?????? People... all things in time. When Jason Campbell takes the field, it will be because Gibbs KNOWS that he is as ready as he can be.

The "FANS" act like ESPN and SI monkeys and thats FACT.

Both ESPN and SI said for the past 2 years that Gibbs can't adjust to the NFL, he needed to go back to Nascar...

What blows my mind is that AT LEAST ESPN and SI shut up about it. Its OUR "FANS" and I use that term LOOSELY. Its our fans that are STILL doubting Gibbs even after ESPN and SI have started to come around.

The bandwagon is back folks and you can hop off anytime. I'm 100% pro Redskin and Im backing Joe Gibbs 100%.

I think some of you older fans are spoiled. Those of us who aren't around for the "glory years"...well this is our FIRST sip of victory. This is our 1st winning season in the playoffs. Jake, FFA, myself...we aren't used to the winning tradition and I think it says a lot for us young guys to have endured over a decade of stupidity for a team that did absolutely nothing to validate our dedication.

Countertrey wrote:Hello, folks. It's Gibbs. The man freaking knows exactly what he is doing.

Don't forget he walks on water, cures the sick with just a glance, and has never made a mistake in his entire life!
Some of you people are really drinking the Kool-aid on Gibbs. Do I think he's one of the greatest coaches ever (if not the greatest)? Absolutely! Do I think he's also a man of great character? No question! Personally, I admire and respect him not just as a coach but as a person. Do I want anyone else in the world coaching this team? Not in a million years. But do I think he's perfect? No. He definitely stuck with the wrong QB too long in '04, and I don't know how anyone can say otherwise. Even Gibbs has admitted it, and it's why he made Ramsey the '05 starter right from the end of '04. Of course, when he got injured, that all changed.

Do people actually believe that Joe Gibbs would connive his way into a second Round one pick, select a QB with that pick, and then DO NOTHING WITH HIM??????

And what have we seen so far? There's even a question of whether he'll be elevated to No.2!!

People... all things in time. When Jason Campbell takes the field, it will be because Gibbs KNOWS that he is as ready as he can be.

Like I said already, time will tell. I have little doubt Brunell will be the regular season starter barring some severe injury (which I do NOT want to see), so we'll all get to see if he holds up. I may wish otherwise, but I don't expect to see Campbell at all this season.

Mursilis wrote:Don't forget he walks on water, cures the sick with just a glance, and has never made a mistake in his entire life!

Why would he need to do all of that when all he has done is bring success to this team? 2004 was a success but it wasn't reflected in the W/L column. 2005 not only got us a winning record but got us into Super Bowl contention. In a totally different NFL and with a Spurrier team...

Goodness what more do you want from him? UNREALISTIC expectations. He blew my mind last year. I didn't believe the hype when he got back and I had TC, redskin1, Ree, JF telling me to shut up and wait a while and they were 100% right.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:UNREALISTIC expectations.

The guy who announced next year would be an undefeated season before training camp even opened (before the draft, even!) has accused ME of unrealistic expectations?!?

You're funny, kid. I definitely have to give you that!

Mursilis wrote:Don't forget he walks on water, cures the sick with just a glance, and has never made a mistake in his entire life!

It would be one thing if your criticism of Gibbs was a footnote to the content of your posts, Mursilis, but it's not. But you've claimed that Gibbs cost the Redskins a season's worth of football, and you imply that he made the exact same mistakes just this past year. You also act like the Redskins are on the path to destruction this year, too, in saying that you think Gibbs is great. . .but, if he does what you think he's going to do then doom and gloom will be upon us.

Repeat all you want that you have trust in Gibbs and that you want him to be our coach (and no one else), but at the end of the day you also claim that those who show optimism for Gibbs' decisions are drinking some kind of Koolaid. It must be nice to feel like you have all of your bases covered. And fan-based cynicism is a great strategy for just that.

If you ask me, life is too short. . .

Fans always seem to think that "their" team could be better, if only it wasn't for that pesky coach and his crazy decisions. I admit that I think the Redskins overpaid by a long way to sign Brunell in the first place. I'll admit that he's not the best QB in the NFL. But somehow I think that Joe Gibbs knows more about quarterbacks than the rest of us.

Mursilis wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:UNREALISTIC expectations.

The guy who announced next year would be an undefeated season before training camp even opened (before the draft, even!) has accused ME of unrealistic expectations?!?

You're funny, kid. I definitely have to give you that!

Yep, I surely did and Imma call it again this year. The difference between your "humour" and mine is that Im joking and you're serious.

Nice reply too. You can't deny a single sentence from my last post and its clear by your reply.

FanfromAnnapolis wrote:

Mursilis wrote:Don't forget he walks on water, cures the sick with just a glance, and has never made a mistake in his entire life!

It would be one thing if your criticism of Gibbs was a footnote to the content of your posts, Mursilis, but it's not. But you've claimed that Gibbs cost the Redskins a season's worth of football, and you imply that he made the exact same mistakes just this past year. You also act like the Redskins are on the path to destruction this year, too, in saying that you think Gibbs is great. . .but, if he does what you think he's going to do then doom and gloom will be upon us.

Repeat all you want that you have trust in Gibbs and that you want him to be our coach (and no one else), but at the end of the day you also claim that those who show optimism for Gibbs' decisions are drinking some kind of Koolaid. It must be nice to feel like you have all of your bases covered. And fan-based cynicism is a great strategy for just that.

If you ask me, life is too short. . .

200+ posts and they're all anti-Gibbs? I don't think so. And I've never said the season is already a loss if Brunell starts; there's just too much talent, both on the field and in the coaching staff (starting, but not ending, with Gibbs) for that.
Regarding Gibbs, I do think he's great, but I'm not one of those who thinks just because Gibbs says it, it's got to be the right call. Is he usually much more right than wrong? Obviously. Is he infallible? No.
And you're right, life's too short . . . far too short to take much of this very seriously. We can argue Brunell/Campbell from now 'til kickoff of the Vikings game, and it's not going to change a thing; we both know that. Once real play starts, I think we both want the same thing; to see Gibbs hoist another Lombardi Trophy at the end of Super Bowl XLI.