The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

DEHog wrote:Guys it's what the market will bare...Just because we spent a high pick on him doesn't mean we get one for him. I can live with the 5th round pick if we also get the conditional pick...Think about it...If he does well we get a high paick next year if not no harm no foul!

I understand what you're saying but is it worth losing a "decent" backup for a 5th round pick? Would he be more useful in a reserve role than a potential 5th round pick? I dont know. Im leaning towards keeping him but we could find a gem in the draft.... Lloyd was a 4th round pick.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

DEHog wrote:Guys it's what the market will bare...Just because we spent a high pick on him doesn't mean we get one for him. I can live with the 5th round pick if we also get the conditional pick...Think about it...If he does well we get a high paick next year if not no harm no foul!

I understand what you're saying but is it worth losing a "decent" backup for a 5th round pick? Would he be more useful in a reserve role than a potential 5th round pick? I dont know. Im leaning towards keeping him but we could find a gem in the draft.... Lloyd was a 4th round pick.

I don't see him as the backup this year I see Jason as the backup so we need a 3rd sting QB now at a low cap #

Chris Luva Luva wrote:This is the one thing that utterly pisses me off about the Redskins at times, if this happens.

Here we are accepting a below value pick for Ramsey.

In another situation we're giving away too high of a pick possibly for Lloyd.


Its retarded!

I totally echo your sentiments, even though I'm not real high on PRam. However, value is in the eye of the beholder. The markets got a number of QBs: Drew Brees, Daunte Culpepper will fill a void somewhere, Jon Kitna, probably what's his name from Oakland, Josh McNown, etc. Ramsey's problem is we need to trade, he's not just coming off of the free market. So, whatever team picks him up has to surrender a draft pick AND resign him to a deal. So, from the Jets perspective, they want to give up as little as possible. That being said, I still think he's worth a 4th & 5th or a 3rd.

DEHog wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

DEHog wrote:Guys it's what the market will bare...Just because we spent a high pick on him doesn't mean we get one for him. I can live with the 5th round pick if we also get the conditional pick...Think about it...If he does well we get a high paick next year if not no harm no foul!

I understand what you're saying but is it worth losing a "decent" backup for a 5th round pick? Would he be more useful in a reserve role than a potential 5th round pick? I dont know. Im leaning towards keeping him but we could find a gem in the draft.... Lloyd was a 4th round pick.

I don't see him as the backup this year I see Jason as the backup so we need a 3rd sting QB now at a low cap #

I agree but if it comes down to giving up Ramsey for a 5h round pick or placing him at #3, I think it'd be worth it to just keep him. I may be wrong but at the moment thats my thought.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

DEHog wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

DEHog wrote:Guys it's what the market will bare...Just because we spent a high pick on him doesn't mean we get one for him. I can live with the 5th round pick if we also get the conditional pick...Think about it...If he does well we get a high paick next year if not no harm no foul!

I understand what you're saying but is it worth losing a "decent" backup for a 5th round pick? Would he be more useful in a reserve role than a potential 5th round pick? I dont know. Im leaning towards keeping him but we could find a gem in the draft.... Lloyd was a 4th round pick.

I don't see him as the backup this year I see Jason as the backup so we need a 3rd sting QB now at a low cap #

I agree but if it comes down to giving up Ramsey for a 5h round pick or placing him at #3, I think it'd be worth it to just keep him. I may be wrong but at the moment thats my thought.

Think the Vikes will get a first rounder for Culppepper??


I can't understand how some of you are saying your not high on Ramsey yet you want a high pick. The NFL is a different animal now...In today's NFL teams look to rookies to fill much needed ST and backup roles that traditionally went to vet's. The salary cap now out a different spin on things team spend the bulk of cap money on highly talented skill players and look look to FA and the draft to fill voids.

I want my cake and eat it too? People have pimped us for overpriced players, why can't we do the same?

I think the way the Skins handled the whole Ramsey situation severly hurt his trade value. Who is going to give up anything significant for a player whose team doesn't want him?

cvillehog wrote:I think the way the Skins handled the whole Ramsey situation severly hurt his trade value. Who is going to give up anything significant for a player whose team doesn't want him?

Exactly. No matter how you want to spin it. We f-ed up on how we handled it. Ramsey is worth more than a 5th round pick but the way we handled it, that's what we get. To put in perspective, who here is going to bet that any QB selected in the 5th round or worse will win more games his career than Ramsey. Any takers? They'll be lucky if they even see the field in a real game.

Ramsey's value is dependant on the QBs available on the market. Brees and Culpepper are on the market now along with lesser guys like Kitna, McCown, Fiedler, Garcia, and Rattay. There is also probably 3 QB's going in the top 5 of the draft, which makes it a really bad year to be trading a QB. However we have to do it now, so I dont blame the redskins for what the market bears for him, it's out of their control at this point.

dlc wrote:

cvillehog wrote:I think the way the Skins handled the whole Ramsey situation severly hurt his trade value. Who is going to give up anything significant for a player whose team doesn't want him?

Exactly. No matter how you want to spin it. We f-ed up on how we handled it. Ramsey is worth more than a 5th round pick but the way we handled it, that's what we get. To put in perspective, who here is going to bet that any QB selected in the 5th round or worse will win more games his career than Ramsey. Any takers? They'll be lucky if they even see the field in a real game.

So how should we have handle it?? Let Ramsey play?? He does well and...my guess.. if he did well we wouldn't be having this conversation. Or he plays poorly and we couldn't give him away.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I want my cake and eat it too? People have pimped us for overpriced players, why can't we do the same?

OK Chris..how bout Ramsey for Abrams and a first rounder?

Considering Pat's a 32nd pick and hopefully our next 1st rounder will be in the 30's...I'd bite. Just don't know how much I would want to deal with restructuring/re-signing this guy if/when it would come...simliar to the Moss situation.

$.02

DEHog wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I want my cake and eat it too? People have pimped us for overpriced players, why can't we do the same?

OK Chris..how bout Ramsey for Abrams and a first rounder?

DEAL!

DEHog wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I want my cake and eat it too? People have pimped us for overpriced players, why can't we do the same?

OK Chris..how bout Ramsey for Abrams and a first rounder?

Deal ... as long as its the Jets giving us the 1st rounder ... they way some deals have gone in the past it seems others would read the above deal to read Ramsey + 1st rounder to Jets for Abrams

rick301 wrote:

DEHog wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I want my cake and eat it too? People have pimped us for overpriced players, why can't we do the same?

OK Chris..how bout Ramsey for Abrams and a first rounder?

Deal ... as long as its the Jets giving us the 1st rounder ... they way some deals have gone in the past it seems others would read the above deal to read Ramsey + 1st rounder to Jets for Abrams

Exactly, my point.

Bailey + pick for Portis? Im sorry, I love Portis but that was a horrible deal.

While I would agree...I don't think the bidding war is ever gonna bump Patches up to a first round grade. Abrams is a performer at end and will draw interest from multiple clubs...jacking up the trade bait.

While I think it's a perrenial mistake to cough up picks for players...in this instance I think it would provide a fix at the end position for the next 6-8 years.

I also agree that we should have received the pick in the Bailey/Portis deal...but if that was the only scenario to pull the trigger, I would do it again a hundred times.

$.02

Folks, It is what it is.......... Ramsey is not a Gibbs type quarterback for what ever reason and he a goner. Lets take the cap money and make the best of what's next. See what Gibbs will come up with for a 5th round selection! I'm sure the skins have done their homework and will find, maybe the next diammond in the rough. Here are a few past examples of a 5th round selection and on. Yes, I know that these guys are the exception, but at this point all we can do is hope. Bye, Bye, Patrick........

5th Rounders:
Joe Horn (K.C)
Zach Thomas (Miami)

6th Rounders:
Marc Bulger (N.O)
Tom Brady (N.E)

Past Redskin Greats:
7th Round: 1958 Bobby Mitchell HB Cleveland Browns

9th Round: 1967 Ken Houston S Houston Oilers

On Mike and Mike the other morning they were talking with Mel Kiper about the big three QB's....Brees, Culpepper, and Ramsey....Kiper said that he would take Bree's, Ramsey, and Culpepper in that order based on skill, value, and injuries. So in Kipers mind Ramsey is better than a severly injured Culpepper, but less than a Brees with a shoulder injury.

I still think that this is a low value, but people...other than us....just don't give up first day picks anymore...

I'd hold out.

Chad

That's insane. Patrick shouldn't even be mentioned int he same conversation with either of those birds...but, hey...if you want to pay us like he's the Man With The Golden Arm, we're all ears.

tcwest10 wrote:That's insane. Patrick shouldn't even be mentioned int he same conversation with either of those birds...but, hey...if you want to pay us like he's the Man With The Golden Arm, we're all ears.

I agree....but I was happy to hear a skins players getting some positive pub...and any pub that he gets could raise the asking price.

5th rounder is too low in my opinion...and the Jets are a bad option for Ramsey...what they lack in o-line play they make up for with vicious reporters. Ramsey holds the ball too long to play behind that line...He'd be better off in minnesota or miami.

Chad

leatherhead 377 wrote:Here are a few past examples of a 5th round selection and on. Yes, I know that these guys are the exception, but at this point all we can do is hope. Bye, Bye, Patrick...

Well, Gibbs has actually had quite a bit of success with 5th round picks with Dexter Manley, Brian Mitchell and Timmy Smith. Not that it makes the Ramsey trade any more or less appealing, but there is some value in a low draft pick.[/b]

Robert McCune = 5th rounder