I`ve seen enough of Ramsey

[skins#1fan]

I know your not covering up his bad pass...Mabey ill let that one pass go but he had other oppertunities 1 on 1 down the field and didnt get it there. I also noticed a lot of the flat and dump off passes were behind the running backs. Ramsey has the cannon and shouldnt be scared to use it. Once again my opinion of his play was the same. He looked really good at certain times and other times didnt look sharp. I think he is one beat off from being where he needs to be. The question is how long will it take him to get on that level! hopefully soon because Brunell is already there. Looks real crisp and is getting the ball to the right people consistently.

[King Cali Skin 2]

Too many picks for playing only the first half, at least he is getting them out of his system during the preseaon, he is slowly coming back to form. His passes are still iffy, but give him time. He just needs to get his confidence back, and wthen I think he will be much more on point and will kill Defenses with very good long balls. Just needs to hit recievers in stride in the short and intermediate game.

But Burnell has been tearing it up against the 2nd team. great completion pct. and NO NO Ints.

[King Cali Skin 2]

Yes I agree, Moss, Patten and ey made Ram's look much better than he is at the part of the season. Moss went back and made a Great catch (under thrown, idiot) ey made a very tough catch, reaching back for the ball, Ram's should of hit Sellers for the walk in TD instead of ey, shows his lack of reading the field.

Burnell is the experienced QB, very much on point this year, must have been really injured or not used to the Gibb's system last season.
I like the way Burnell goes through his progressions and makes the best pass, even looks off defenders. The years and years of experience AS a PRO QB. Come on Ram's

[DEHog]

First let me say I love Patrick he has all the intangible qualities off the field, you like to see from your starting QB. It’s so hard not to root for this guy! Having said that, I just don’t see the Ramsey I’ve seen in the past few years. He doesn’t seem that accurate this year, even the passes he completes are off target. His progression is not good, I don’t know if he’s locking in on receivers or what, but he’s missed more than a few open receivers. His throwing motion seem different to me this year, as if he’s pushing or aiming the ball, he needs to let it fly like he did in his first year. He just doesn’t look comfortable playing QB, I don’t know if it’s the pressure or what. Dare I say Brunell looks comfortable? I’ve heard all the argument about this being pre-season and Brunell is playing against second team D’s. Remember last year Ramsey play against both and he didn’t look any better against the second team. I’d love to see Gibbs tell Ramsey to rest up for the Bears game and let Brunell play against the Ravens first D. Either way I know Patrick is our starter and WE ALL need to support him come opening day!!!!!!!

[redskincity]

How anyone can judge a quarterback who's running an offense that is the polar opposite of the package that they will run in the regular season is beyond me.

But people continue to do it, so instead of biting my tongue, I'm going to say my peice about a couple of things and hope that some of you at least listen to what I have to say.

Patrick Ramsey has definitely not played great in the offseason. He has thrown some bad passes and more than just the interceptions. He still does not look comfortable in the pocket. Obviously getting killed your first few years in the league has a lot to do with it, but that's definitely something that Patrick is going to have to develop... a confidence in the pocket being there.

But let me digress a little and go into some backgrond stuff that the media pundits either miss, ignore or both. Because while they are not always right and in fact often very wrong, the media often dictate what a lot of Joe Q. Public believes.

Joe Gibbs runs a ball control offense. Now I know that ball control has become so cliche that it lacks meaning but Joe Gibbs runs the purest form of ball control offense... and that doesn't just mean that he likes to run the clock down by constantly running the ball. About 90% of the playbook are plays that are designed to kill clock AND take as many plays as you can to move down the field... that doesn't just mean running the ball.... that means even using the passing game to yield 3 to 5 yard chunks as opposed to going for 20 at a time.

The Gibbs era II has NEVER seen this done effectively. The entire premise is predicated on dominating the trenches and winning chunks of the field 3 to 5 yards at a time. This isn't to say that every play centers around it, but it is important that you truly understand the mentality of it.

This offense RELIES on the running back and the h-back to carry much of the load for the offense.

Not the quarterback.

How many touches do ey and Portis have in the preseason? Our two biggest offensive components have yet to contribute in the preseason and people are casting this offense under the bus before the season even starts.

It's completely unfair to judge a QB who's coach has chosen to let the QB feel uncomfortable and play out of the element, rather than show his hand. This isn't a slight on Gibbs, pretty obvious why he does it... he always has been very secretive about everything to the point of even being considered paranoid.

This is on the fans. Because the fams should recognize what is going on out there and stop putting so much faith in both what the media tell you and what you are seeing on the field. Preseason is a glorified practice people... the Redskins went 0-4 in one of the preseasons of a SB year.

And what is happening is that a fan base that should be smart enough to realize that Patrick is out of his element is propogating the problem themselves. As I said, Patrick needs to develop confidence in his pocket, something that he needs to do to be successful in this offense. But it is something that will come from experiencing it, not just from hoping it will be so. And he hasn't experienced much of it.

The o-line has played great so far, don't get me wrong. But when the defense knows that you aren't going to run the ball much, they're certainly able to tee off at the line more and drop men into coverage as opposed to stacking the box. When they know that they don't have to contend with arguably your premier short yardage reception guy either, they can really back off and play the pass.

The EXACT opposite should be true when the Joe Gibbs offense is running it's true playbook and is using Clinton portis and Chris ey.

And yet still the fans will boo Ramsey from the moment he throws an incompletion until the moment he throws a touchdown. And with no consideration of the fact that his major hurdle is his confidence.

So what the heck am I trying to say?

Ramsey needs some time... but he also needs some support... both from his team and from the fans. He possesses all of the tools essential to be a quarterback in this system... he's bright, he has a strong arm, he's tough, and he has good leadership ability. Joe Gibbs is a much smrter football guy than I am so I'm sure he knows all this... but i do hope he recognizes that at some point playing a vanilla package to keep things close to the vest, may very well be outweighed by having your QB need to develop confidence and play in his element a little bit.

I ranted this long because I want the fans to recognize how much of a differnce CP $ CC make to this offense AND to Patrick's ability to develop a confidence zone.

Winning the wars in the trenches is the only real way for him to do that.

Running the ball successfully is the only way to make this offense work... the passing game will always be complimentary, never predominant.

And none of this is to say that Patrick gets a free ride and can tank the season for the Redskins. He needs to step up now. He needs to take the bull by the horns and make this team his. He ALSO needs to recognize that this is glorified practice and not get down on himself for all of the above stated reasons.

The fans need to SUPPORT THE TEAM, and subsequently SUPPORT PATRICK. Not blindly... but with a little bit of knowledge and understanding of what is going on.

He has the potential to take this team to the playoffs, but it's going to take some time, some cohesion, some hard work and a little bit of faith.

This should be a sticky!

[JR_USCG_GOSKINS]

Its really simple. The best man gets the job, just like any other position on the team. I think PRam understands this, and he needs to settle down and just play. Brunell is playing alot better this year, because he is healthy now. Last year he had an hamstring injury that nobody knew about. The other night I really wanted to see Brunell play at the end of the second quarter. Just to see how he would do against the Steelers 1st stringers. What ever we do, and who ever is QB, I hope we dont keep them in for eight or nine weeks if their not getting the job done. Last year if we had average 21 points a game we would have been 14-2. This team should of been in the play-offs last year. So, I'm looking for us to go this year without a doubt. Gibbs will get it done.

[SkinsJock]

I've seen enough of Ramsey too! Let's rest him next game (we don't need to give him anymore time to get ready) and let Mark and our future QB get some playing time. Also if he got hurt we'd have to put in Mark so he needs to get ready too. Oh, that's right, he's ready now! Let's let Jason have the QB duties and save all our starters.







Give me a break!

[crazyhorse1]

Yes I agree, Moss, Patten and ey made Ram's look much better than he is at the part of the season. Moss went back and made a Great catch (under thrown, idiot) ey made a very tough catch, reaching back for the ball, Ram's should of hit Sellers for the walk in TD instead of ey, shows his lack of reading the field.

Burnell is the experienced QB, very much on point this year, must have been really injured or not used to the Gibb's system last season.
I like the way Burnell goes through his progressions and makes the best pass, even looks off defenders. The years and years of experience AS a PRO QB. Come on Ram's

Calling a poster names is against the rules. We're not in Smack. Otherwise, I might respond on your level, probably not. Ramsey said after the game the ball was deliberately underthrown for Moss to come back on. Am I an idiot for believing a Redskin QB I have never known to lie.
I would have thrown to ey too...a great receiver. Not to Sellers...not really a receiver at all, who may or may be have made it into the end zone. It wasn't a tough catch for ey. He makes that catch nine times out of ten. We're not talking about a typical guy here. We're talking about a physical monster against a DB. No contest...and Ramsey knew it...I knew it...Gibbs knew it. Everybody but you knew it.
By the way, Brunell in his prime was known for his accuracy, not for throwing long. He never had an arm that could have taken full advantage of first class speed, even though he was a fine quarterback. That's something else you didn't know, until now.

[Gibbs' Hog]

...Ram's should of hit Sellers for the walk in TD instead of ey... shows his lack of reading the field.

OR, Ramsey was doing what he is comfortable with - throwing a pass to his no. 1 TD receiver last year....

...Burnell is the experienced QB, very much on point this year, must have been really injured or not used to the Gibb's system last season.
I like the way Burnell goes through his progressions and makes the best pass, even looks off defenders. The years and years of experience AS a PRO QB.

I agree, Brunell IS on our team because he is an experienced veteran. But let me, if I may, refresh some minds here as to what Brunell brought to our team last year...


Game 1 - 125 yds., 2 fumbles
Game 2 - 92 yds., 1 fumble
Game 3 - 325 yds., 1 fumble
Game 4 - 192 yds.
Game 5 - 83 yds., 2 fumbles
Game 6 - 95 yds.
Game 7 - 218 yds.
Game 8 - 58 yds.


That's four games - yes, 4 games - that Brunell could not pass for over 100 yds. And that cannot all be blamed on the coaches, receivers, etc. In fact, his total yards per game averaged 148.5 - not really stellar for a PRO QB.

Brunell also had 7 TDs, and 6 INTs - and was sacked 14 times...all the O-line's fault? A lot of it, maybe - but certainly not all of it.



But this is all useless. The point is that Brunell has not been playing with, or against starters in this preseason. And if I recall correctly, Brunell looked pretty good in the preseason last year too.......

Brunell will come in handy as a backup - but that's all he should be this year.

Ramsey is our guy, he's improved with every game so far, he just beat the best defense in the league last year, and it looks to me like he is ready to lead this team throughout the season.

[WuSkinsFan]

To deliberately underthrow a receiver is not a stupid or bad call. It's been a part of the NFL game for decades. Ramsey's underthrow was textbook and perfect.
I think he and Moss tried it on the first long throw that went incomplete. Moss' anger was at the official because he (Moss) was interfered with getting back at the ball, not because the pass was short.
Moss and Ramsey are stopping DB's from cheating back without lookbacks-- a good thing to do at the start of a season.
Our man still has his cannon. It is doubtless difficult to adjust it to Moss' speed, but he will.
One thing for sure. In spite of how well Brunell plays, his arm has never been long enough to take full advantage of Moss and Patten.[/quote]

It is not to your advantage to underthrow the ball when you have the DB beat. A QB will underthrow when the receiver is either even or hasn't passed the DB. Otherwise you risk the DB turning around for an easy INT. A QB's job is always to put the ball in the best spot for his receiver to catch the ball. So why in the world would you deliberately underthrow the ball when your receiver is behind the secondary? Surely not to draw an interferene call b/c you have a much better chance of scoring a TD by just airing the ball out there if the receiver has a step or 2 on his man.

[Deadskins]

A QB will underthrow when the receiver is either even or hasn't passed the DB. Otherwise you risk the DB turning around for an easy INT. A QB's job is always to put the ball in the best spot for his receiver to catch the ball. So why in the world would you deliberately underthrow the ball when your receiver is behind the secondary? Surely not to draw an interferene call b/c you have a much better chance of scoring a TD by just airing the ball out there if the receiver has a step or 2 on his man.

The ball was thrown before Moss had gotten behind the defender. In the NFL, the QB has to throw the ball to where the receiver is going to be. It is all about timing. Patrick just needs to get the timing thing down with Moss before they can start hooking up for regular long bombs.

[Gibbs' Hog]

...Patrick just needs to get the timing thing down with Moss before they can start hooking up for regular long bombs.

Ding ding ding!!!



That's what I see - and it's gotten closer in every game so far. If they get that timing down, Moss's speed could allow for a few of those connections to resemble a Manning-Harrison tag team...



And before anyone jumps on me for comparing Ramsey and Moss to Manning and Harrison, let me stress the fact that what I am saying is that we could see a few similar hook-ups with the timing down. They won't score 49 or whatever touchdowns, and other secondaries won't lay down for them, but Moss can get open; and if Ramsey leads him by 5 yds or so, I believe we could see some stuff that we haven't seen in a loooong time......

[RedskinsFreak]

I've seen enough -- he was better in PS 3 than he was in PS 2, which was better than PS 1.

The sooner they switch to Brunell, the more this season has been given the raise-the-white-flag treatment. But if say, after 12 games, they're 5-7 or even as bad as 4-8 and they're in the playoff hunt and Ramsey hasn't shown marked improvement or consistency, yeah go ahead and use Brunell to see if he can pull out a playoff spot.

[King Cali Skin 2]

Yes I agree, Moss, Patten and ey made Ram's look much better than he is at the part of the season. Moss went back and made a Great catch (under thrown, idiot) ey made a very tough catch, reaching back for the ball, Ram's should of hit Sellers for the walk in TD instead of ey, shows his lack of reading the field.

Burnell is the experienced QB, very much on point this year, must have been really injured or not used to the Gibb's system last season.
I like the way Burnell goes through his progressions and makes the best pass, even looks off defenders. The years and years of experience AS a PRO QB. Come on Ram's

Calling a poster names is against the rules. We're not in Smack. Otherwise, I might respond on your level, probably not. Ramsey said after the game the ball was deliberately underthrown for Moss to come back on. Am I an idiot for believing a Redskin QB I have never known to lie.
I would have thrown to ey too...a great receiver. Not to Sellers...not really a receiver at all, who may or may be have made it into the end zone. It wasn't a tough catch for ey. He makes that catch nine times out of ten. We're not talking about a typical guy here. We're talking about a physical monster against a DB. No contest...and Ramsey knew it...I knew it...Gibbs knew it. Everybody but you knew it.
By the way, Brunell in his prime was known for his accuracy, not for throwing long. He never had an arm that could have taken full advantage of first class speed, even though he was a fine quarterback. That's something else you didn't know, until now.

I am not calling you an idiot, I am calling Ramsey an Idiot.
ha. My fault for the confusion.

[WuSkinsFan]

The ball was thrown before Moss had gotten behind the defender. In the NFL, the QB has to throw the ball to where the receiver is going to be. It is all about timing. Patrick just needs to get the timing thing down with Moss before they can start hooking up for regular long bombs.

I'll take your word for it. Doesn't change my earlier post. If you have played football, you can usually tell when the receiver is going to beat the DB and, thus, know where to throw the ball. But they do need time to develop the chemistry so Ramsey can figure out his WR's tendencies so I agree with you.

[crazyhorse1]

Yes I agree, Moss, Patten and ey made Ram's look much better than he is at the part of the season. Moss went back and made a Great catch (under thrown, idiot) ey made a very tough catch, reaching back for the ball, Ram's should of hit Sellers for the walk in TD instead of ey, shows his lack of reading the field.

Burnell is the experienced QB, very much on point this year, must have been really injured or not used to the Gibb's system last season.
I like the way Burnell goes through his progressions and makes the best pass, even looks off defenders. The years and years of experience AS a PRO QB. Come on Ram's

Calling a poster names is against the rules. We're not in Smack. Otherwise, I might respond on your level, probably not. Ramsey said after the game the ball was deliberately underthrown for Moss to come back on. Am I an idiot for believing a Redskin QB I have never known to lie.
I would have thrown to ey too...a great receiver. Not to Sellers...not really a receiver at all, who may or may be have made it into the end zone. It wasn't a tough catch for ey. He makes that catch nine times out of ten. We're not talking about a typical guy here. We're talking about a physical monster against a DB. No contest...and Ramsey knew it...I knew it...Gibbs knew it. Everybody but you knew it.
By the way, Brunell in his prime was known for his accuracy, not for throwing long. He never had an arm that could have taken full advantage of first class speed, even though he was a fine quarterback. That's something else you didn't know, until now.

I am not calling you an idiot, I am calling Ramsey an Idiot.
ha. My fault for the confusion.

Ok. Understood. My fault too. I played a part in the misunderstanding.

[King Cali Skin 2]

Our man still has his cannon. It is doubtless difficult to adjust it to Moss' speed, but he will.
One thing for sure. In spite of how well Brunell plays, his arm has never been long enough to take full advantage of Moss and Patten.

Yes I agree crazyhorse, It is a trade off, Ramsey has the arm to bombs away, but so far Burnni has been on point in the short and intermediate game, hitting recievers in stride and making good decisions.

BUT Ramsey is slowly getting back to form, just need to work out a few kinks and he will hit our intermediate and deep balls keeping Defenses honest.

[JansenFan]

It is a trade off, Ramsey has the arm to bombs away, but so far Burnni has been on point in the short and intermediate game, hitting recievers in stride and making good decisions.

Isn't this statement clarify exactly what was wrong with our passing opffense last year.....the thing that had EVERYONE clamboring for Patrick Ramsey.

Search for Brunell can't throw the long ball, and you will likely get 50 threads.

[frankcal20]

I think that our offense will do well as long as we win the turnover battle. Thats it.

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

It is a trade off, Ramsey has the arm to bombs away, but so far Burnni has been on point in the short and intermediate game, hitting recievers in stride and making good decisions.

Isn't this statement clarify exactly what was wrong with our passing opffense last year.....the thing that had EVERYONE clamboring for Patrick Ramsey.

Search for Brunell can't throw the long ball, and you will likely get 50 threads.

Unfortunately for Ramsey fans, though, Brunell has shown he can throw the long ball this pre-season.

[Gibbs' Hog]

Unfortunately for Ramsey fans, though, Brunell has shown he can throw the long ball this pre-season.

I think it's an illusion...most of the complete passes we've seen from the other QBs this preseason have been 5-15 yarders.


And I'm still not over the fact that Brunell "won" the position last year by playing decently in the preseason - and completely crapped out in the regular season. One could argue that he's playing better this preseason than last year, but again, he's been up against 2nd & 3rd teams the whole time.


I'm not expecting any kind of 'Drew Brees' action from Brunell this year...

[SkinsJock]

When all the options were considered this past few months Joe & co elected to stick with Ramsey and have Mark be the back-up. Then, they prepared for the future by getting Campbell.

Obviously nothing has happened to change his feelings (good or bad for Ramsey) because he would have done something about it before now. We are going to see Ramsey start and Brunell will be the back up. We are going to need both of them to have a decent chance for success this year. If Joe had wanted to do it any other way that decision would have been made by now.

I'm still not certain how he feels about Ramsey but I am certain that he thinks Ramsey gives him the best chance for his scheme to work and that's who we are going to see for quite a while. I also think we may be seeing some better combinations of players and offensive schemes this year and this team will not be as affected by the QB or any other position as it was in the past. Not having some key players injured will obviously be important but we are also a deeper team than we were last year.

I think we are going to be a lot better prepared and will operate better as a team in all facets of the game than we have for a long time.

[crazyhorse1]

It is a trade off, Ramsey has the arm to bombs away, but so far Burnni has been on point in the short and intermediate game, hitting recievers in stride and making good decisions.

Isn't this statement clarify exactly what was wrong with our passing opffense last year.....the thing that had EVERYONE clamboring for Patrick Ramsey.

Search for Brunell can't throw the long ball, and you will likely get 50 threads.

Unfortunately for Ramsey fans, though, Brunell has shown he can throw the long ball this pre-season.

What long ball has Mark thrown?

[King Cali Skin 2]

Ramsey is still not making great decisions or passes, hasn't hit a reciever in stride all pre-season. Always lil' behind or high.
Only time he looked good is throwing to a wide open guy standing still, really.

I hate his decisions on 3rd passed plays, idiot never hits recievers pass the fist down marker, always short.

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

It is a trade off, Ramsey has the arm to bombs away, but so far Burnni has been on point in the short and intermediate game, hitting recievers in stride and making good decisions.

Isn't this statement clarify exactly what was wrong with our passing opffense last year.....the thing that had EVERYONE clamboring for Patrick Ramsey.

Search for Brunell can't throw the long ball, and you will likely get 50 threads.

Unfortunately for Ramsey fans, though, Brunell has shown he can throw the long ball this pre-season.

What long ball has Mark thrown?

I've witnessed him throw deep several times this preseason. Of course, not many were completions, but he certainly made the whole "noodle arm" monicker irrelevant with his play.

The first was against Carolina, when he actually "overthrew" a receiver.

Most recently, in the Stillers game, a wide open receiver dropped a long pass that would have, IMO, locked up the unofficial Comeback Player of the Year Award for #8.

Mark certainly has more zip on his throws and, compared to "The Ram" looks extremely comfortable in running the team. It also seems like the running game is working better with him under center. I guess that with his "resurgence" teams HAVE to respect the pass, thereby opening gaping running lanes for Nemo and co.