The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

1fan4ramsey wrote:can't believe this is actually a thread, Ramsey is and should and will be the starter opening day. Is this thread serious? Come on, it's a joke right!! You people, the same ones who booed Brunell less than a year ago, the same people who chanted "We want Ram-see!" until you finally got him, now you want Gibbs's proclaimed starter wearing a headset again? Among the many misguided, ill-conceived thoughts surrounding Gibbs's football team: Ramsey better be good early. Or else. The idea being, Brunell could take over in Week 2, Auburn rookie Jason Campbell in Week 8 and Ramsey again in Week 11. Great. By December, every Washington quarterback's psyche will be destroyed. What symmetry that would be, the same chaotic, instant-gratification strategy that landed Washington a slew of big-name, small-time free agents and a litany of egocentric, overpaid coaches. Look, Ramsey may not be heading to the Pro Bowl this season. He may not be markedly better than his veteran backup and good friend, Brunell. But give the kid a shot, a real shot -- not a few meaningless preseason possessions and maybe the season opener. Let him be. For just two straight possessions.

Nice post,it is truthful and honest.The truth is getting the skins back to a winning record isn't going to be easy.I think that staying with one q.b. is smart for now.The pre season is to build on and if it was week 6 of the regular season than, yes "bench ramsey"Until then give him a fair chance to turn it around.

skinpride1 wrote:

1fan4ramsey wrote:can't believe this is actually a thread, Ramsey is and should and will be the starter opening day. Is this thread serious? Come on, it's a joke right!! You people, the same ones who booed Brunell less than a year ago, the same people who chanted "We want Ram-see!" until you finally got him, now you want Gibbs's proclaimed starter wearing a headset again? Among the many misguided, ill-conceived thoughts surrounding Gibbs's football team: Ramsey better be good early. Or else. The idea being, Brunell could take over in Week 2, Auburn rookie Jason Campbell in Week 8 and Ramsey again in Week 11. Great. By December, every Washington quarterback's psyche will be destroyed. What symmetry that would be, the same chaotic, instant-gratification strategy that landed Washington a slew of big-name, small-time free agents and a litany of egocentric, overpaid coaches. Look, Ramsey may not be heading to the Pro Bowl this season. He may not be markedly better than his veteran backup and good friend, Brunell. But give the kid a shot, a real shot -- not a few meaningless preseason possessions and maybe the season opener. Let him be. For just two straight possessions.

Nice post,it is truthful and honest.The truth is getting the skins back to a winning record isn't going to be easy.I think that staying with one q.b. is smart for now.The pre season is to build on and if it was week 6 of the regular season than, yes "bench ramsey"Until then give him a fair chance to turn it around.

Yeah let's waste 6 games this year for the inevitable to happen. Yeah Ramsey can waste our season because he is a nice guy.

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:

skinpride1 wrote:

1fan4ramsey wrote:can't believe this is actually a thread, Ramsey is and should and will be the starter opening day. Is this thread serious? Come on, it's a joke right!! You people, the same ones who booed Brunell less than a year ago, the same people who chanted "We want Ram-see!" until you finally got him, now you want Gibbs's proclaimed starter wearing a headset again? Among the many misguided, ill-conceived thoughts surrounding Gibbs's football team: Ramsey better be good early. Or else. The idea being, Brunell could take over in Week 2, Auburn rookie Jason Campbell in Week 8 and Ramsey again in Week 11. Great. By December, every Washington quarterback's psyche will be destroyed. What symmetry that would be, the same chaotic, instant-gratification strategy that landed Washington a slew of big-name, small-time free agents and a litany of egocentric, overpaid coaches. Look, Ramsey may not be heading to the Pro Bowl this season. He may not be markedly better than his veteran backup and good friend, Brunell. But give the kid a shot, a real shot -- not a few meaningless preseason possessions and maybe the season opener. Let him be. For just two straight possessions.

Nice post,it is truthful and honest.The truth is getting the skins back to a winning record isn't going to be easy.I think that staying with one q.b. is smart for now.The pre season is to build on and if it was week 6 of the regular season than, yes "bench ramsey"Until then give him a fair chance to turn it around.

Yeah let's waste 6 games this year for the inevitable to happen. Yeah Ramsey can waste our season because he is a nice guy.

Let me ask you then pal what you suggest we do. I don't forsee the team trading for Peyton Manning or bringing Joe Theisman out of the booth.

Were you able to catch the first nine weeks of last season? You wan't to talk about wasting games because someone's a nice guy. Mark Brunell had one of the worst campaigns a QB has ever put together. Why is it that everone thinks his horrific season was some kind of three month fluke. He's not getting younger, his elbow is still bad and he still has bum knees. But your right, let's throw him into the fire...

Oh by the way, I'd like to remind you that he didn't even complete 50 percent of his passes. His rating was in the 60's, 30 points lower than what's considered good, not even great but good. Brunell had less than 100 passing yards 5 times in 9 starts, and more than 200 twice. He fumbled 8 times in the first 5 games, and never once guided the offense to more than 18 points. But let's talk about Ramsey wasting a season.

If it's not Brunell, but Jason Campbell who you think deserves the nod, than I have even more a problem with that. To say he isn't ready is about as much an understatemnt as saying that Brunell wasn't good last year. He was shaky in a preaseason game against a bunch of guys who'll be bagging groceries in two weeks, but was somehow built up over the past couple of weeks as the franchise's savior. Will he be good? Yeah. Is he now? Absolutely not. You don't throw a project guy into the fire unless your playing for the future, and I don't know about you but I'm ready for the team's first winning season since 1999.

Ramsey is the team's best chance. He's never gotten a fair crack and has shown flashes of brillaince in the two preseason games. He's made a few horrible decisions, particularly his two picks on Friday, which were both unacceptable. Once he learns to eat that ball though, he'll be fine.

If Ramsey doensn't take this team to the playoffs, nobody will, so you may want to keep your fingers crossed for number 11...

It's true...Patrick Ramsey has under produced. But don't use the argument about Gibbs bringing in Brunell. If I can recall Brunell was the leader of the 4th worst passing offense and in only 40 fewer passing attemmpts he was behind Ramsey in yards, completetion % (62-Ramsey, 49-Brunell), and quarterback rating. Ramsey also threw more touchdowns... I hear these touchdown things are a big part of winning. Fact is..they (ie. Daniel Snyder, destroyer of football teams) has been second guessing him from the start, ever since we almost traded him to the Bears bf he even played a snap. He only truly had one year to start...the year with Spurrier..so I don't really know how you count that against him with those blocking schemes designed to have 3 men block 6. He took man hits for this franchise in that one year. He completed 53%, and had 14 tds to 9 picks. thats DAMN GOOD for a second year qb...Only the redskins would throw millions at another qb after their second year qb did this. The number one pick in Ramsey's draft, David Carr, on the other hand, threw 9 TD's and 13 picks in that same season and the Texans never considred another qb. Give Ramsey a break, he's improving, he's completetion jumped up 10% last year. Sorry for the ran t but the hating on Ramsey must stop until he as one full year as a starter under a legit coach.

Lastly...enough with the J. Campbell nonsense..He might be good..I hope he will be good...but take a peek at his production during his first three years at Auburn...Even in his junior year his job was in question. Had a great senior season so im hopeful..but lets not get carried away..If it takes that long to pick up a college offense how long will it take him to pick up an NFL O.

redskins56 wrote:

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:

skinpride1 wrote:

1fan4ramsey wrote:can't believe this is actually a thread, Ramsey is and should and will be the starter opening day. Is this thread serious? Come on, it's a joke right!! You people, the same ones who booed Brunell less than a year ago, the same people who chanted "We want Ram-see!" until you finally got him, now you want Gibbs's proclaimed starter wearing a headset again? Among the many misguided, ill-conceived thoughts surrounding Gibbs's football team: Ramsey better be good early. Or else. The idea being, Brunell could take over in Week 2, Auburn rookie Jason Campbell in Week 8 and Ramsey again in Week 11. Great. By December, every Washington quarterback's psyche will be destroyed. What symmetry that would be, the same chaotic, instant-gratification strategy that landed Washington a slew of big-name, small-time free agents and a litany of egocentric, overpaid coaches. Look, Ramsey may not be heading to the Pro Bowl this season. He may not be markedly better than his veteran backup and good friend, Brunell. But give the kid a shot, a real shot -- not a few meaningless preseason possessions and maybe the season opener. Let him be. For just two straight possessions.

Nice post,it is truthful and honest.The truth is getting the skins back to a winning record isn't going to be easy.I think that staying with one q.b. is smart for now.The pre season is to build on and if it was week 6 of the regular season than, yes "bench ramsey"Until then give him a fair chance to turn it around.

Yeah let's waste 6 games this year for the inevitable to happen. Yeah Ramsey can waste our season because he is a nice guy.

Let me ask you then pal what you suggest we do. I don't forsee the team trading for Peyton Manning or bringing Joe Theisman out of the booth.

Were you able to catch the first nine weeks of last season? You wan't to talk about wasting games because someone's a nice guy. Mark Brunell had one of the worst campaigns a QB has ever put together. Why is it that everone thinks his horrific season was some kind of three month fluke. He's not getting younger, his elbow is still bad and he still has bum knees. But your right, let's throw him into the fire...

Oh by the way, I'd like to remind you that he didn't even complete 50 percent of his passes. His rating was in the 60's, 30 points lower than what's considered good, not even great but good. Brunell had less than 100 passing yards 5 times in 9 starts, and more than 200 twice. He fumbled 8 times in the first 5 games, and never once guided the offense to more than 18 points. But let's talk about Ramsey wasting a season.

If it's not Brunell, but Jason Campbell who you think deserves the nod, than I have even more a problem with that. To say he isn't ready is about as much an understatemnt as saying that Brunell wasn't good last year. He was shaky in a preaseason game against a bunch of guys who'll be bagging groceries in two weeks, but was somehow built up over the past couple of weeks as the franchise's savior. Will he be good? Yeah. Is he now? Absolutely not. You don't throw a project guy into the fire unless your playing for the future, and I don't know about you but I'm ready for the team's first winning season since 1999.

Ramsey is the team's best chance. He's never gotten a fair crack and has shown flashes of brillaince in the two preseason games. He's made a few horrible decisions, particularly his two picks on Friday, which were both unacceptable. Once he learns to eat that ball though, he'll be fine.

If Ramsey doensn't take this team to the playoffs, nobody will, so you may want to keep your fingers crossed for number 11...

nicely put "redskin 56" lets just throw in the the towel for a T.O. or just stick to the game plan for a while.I watched the game last night and yes Ramsey made some mistakes.I calmed down and looked at it again on film and it wasn't as bad as I first thought.I have to say Patten is awesome and Moss can be to, and Thrash is back at home.Let's not Forget that gibbs is a master at getting under rated q.b.s to perform, like he has never seen this before.Do you know Joe Gibbs or what !!!

Redskins 56 you're absolutely right, could'n agree with you more, Ramsey has played 4 preseason quarters and now many people wnt him out because of two mistakes, come on guys open your eyes, look exactly what he did in his second season, 14 td's and 9 int's with only 10 or 11 games that he played, take a breather and relax, Ramsey will be ok, ne nas ONLY PLAYED 4 QUARTERS of preaseason, jugde him by week 6 or 7, but not in preseason games, Ramsey will lead this team into the playoffs this year.

damimac1 wrote:It's true...Patrick Ramsey has under produced. But don't use the argument about Gibbs bringing in Brunell. If I can recall Brunell was the leader of the 4th worst passing offense and in only 40 fewer passing attemmpts he was behind Ramsey in yards, completetion % (62-Ramsey, 49-Brunell), and quarterback rating. Ramsey also threw more touchdowns... I hear these touchdown things are a big part of winning. Fact is..they (ie. Daniel Snyder, destroyer of football teams) has been second guessing him from the start, ever since we almost traded him to the Bears bf he even played a snap. He only truly had one year to start...the year with Spurrier..so I don't really know how you count that against him with those blocking schemes designed to have 3 men block 6. He took man hits for this franchise in that one year. He completed 53%, and had 14 tds to 9 picks. thats DAMN GOOD for a second year qb...Only the redskins would throw millions at another qb after their second year qb did this. The number one pick in Ramsey's draft, David Carr, on the other hand, threw 9 TD's and 13 picks in that same season and the Texans never considred another qb. Give Ramsey a break, he's improving, he's completetion jumped up 10% last year. Sorry for the ran t but the hating on Ramsey must stop until he as one full year as a starter under a legit coach.

........same tired Ramsey excuses......the more you say them to yourself the more you believe them

A humble plea: let's give Ramsey a chance. Let him learn, cheer him on, sit quietly if he fouls up, but support him as long as he plays for our team.

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:

damimac1 wrote:It's true...Patrick Ramsey has under produced. But don't use the argument about Gibbs bringing in Brunell. If I can recall Brunell was the leader of the 4th worst passing offense and in only 40 fewer passing attemmpts he was behind Ramsey in yards, completetion % (62-Ramsey, 49-Brunell), and quarterback rating. Ramsey also threw more touchdowns... I hear these touchdown things are a big part of winning. Fact is..they (ie. Daniel Snyder, destroyer of football teams) has been second guessing him from the start, ever since we almost traded him to the Bears bf he even played a snap. He only truly had one year to start...the year with Spurrier..so I don't really know how you count that against him with those blocking schemes designed to have 3 men block 6. He took man hits for this franchise in that one year. He completed 53%, and had 14 tds to 9 picks. thats DAMN GOOD for a second year qb...Only the redskins would throw millions at another qb after their second year qb did this. The number one pick in Ramsey's draft, David Carr, on the other hand, threw 9 TD's and 13 picks in that same season and the Texans never considred another qb. Give Ramsey a break, he's improving, he's completetion jumped up 10% last year. Sorry for the ran t but the hating on Ramsey must stop until he as one full year as a starter under a legit coach.

........same tired Ramsey excuses......the more you say them to yourself the more you believe them

....Same tired Ramsey and team bashing rhetoric....

are you guys dumb enough to think that gibbs will start ramsey if he is performing worse in preseason than Brunell just because its his turn or something? Listen gibbs main thing is turnovers. If Brunell atleast gets a few first down and gets better field position without making the major mistakes he will start. That is what he is doing now. Taking a sack instead of trying to throw it away. He is throwing it only where our receivers can get it. He looks like he is in charge out there and I think the players/receivers have more confidence in him then they do in Ramsey.

My sentiments exactly. Touchdown to interception ratio: was a big red flag for me...... I'm seeing the same patter. Even if its only the pre season..... His habits, hasnt changed....and the new firepower offense, boys.... is still the same...Im so livid im sweating....help...

old school redskin wrote::oops: My sentiments exactly. Touchdown to interception ratio: was a big red flag for me...... I'm seeing the same patter. Even if its only the pre season..... His habits, hasnt changed....and the new firepower offense, boys.... is still the same...Im so livid im sweating....help...

Take 2 advil and chase them with a Bass Ale. Repeat as necessary.

Welcome to the site!

damimac1 wrote:Lastly...enough with the J. Campbell nonsense..He might be good..I hope he will be good...but take a peek at his production during his first three years at Auburn...Even in his junior year his job was in question. Had a great senior season so im hopeful..but lets not get carried away..If it takes that long to pick up a college offense how long will it take him to pick up an NFL O.

My friend who coaches at UGA just told me there were 3 qbs in the SEC alone that are better than Jason Campell. He had one good year. He is definetly not ready yet.

You all are just shell shocked because of what happened with Brunell when we left him in there too long. Maybe Pat won't pan out but it STILL is too early to tell. Patrick has only started 23 GAMES IN 3 YEARS. That's less than a season and a half. Sure he has been here awhile but he has been kicked around so much he hasnt really been the man long enough and had stability. 23 starts isn't crap for the toughest position in football! It takes some QB's 3 years before they come into their own or even 2 years. Pat still hasnt even started close to 2 season's worth of games! Throw in all of the different playbooks, instability, spurrier getting him killed, etc (You can't say that doesn't have an impact) and what do you expect?? I agree he hasn't looked sharp in preseason and has thrown some stupid passes but that is to be expected. He hasn't been the worst looking QB in the league either. You all are worrying way too early because of what happend with Brunell last year.

our team this year right this moment is to good to give chances and give someone time to develop. In the past that was fine because we didnt have the defense we have now nor the depth at running back that we have. Ramsey looks the same now as he did in the past, no significant improvement. Dont get me wrong he has the arm and the heart to play this game. He is just the type that will make awesome plays and win a game for you then turn around the next week and cost ya one late in the 4th quarter. This team does not need a quarterback to put up huge numbers. We need a few drives without any mistakes. This is a running and field position type of team. Right now I feel that Brunell is seeing things better and will make less mistakes. I am rooting for Ramsey and I like the kid a lot but I want what is best for the skins and that is no turnover football.

To all you people that think Ramsey will never develope into a good QB because he throws a lot of INTs I have several names for:

David Carr, Joey Harrington, Steve Young and Troy Aikman - THEY ALL HAD WORSE INT to TD ratios than Ramsey through their first three seasons.

Carr has thrown 42 INTs to 34 TDs (a 1.24 ratio) (higher is bad)
Harrington has thrown 50 INTs to 48 TDs (a 1.04 ratio)
Young threw 21 INTs to 22TDs (a 0.95 ratio)
Aikman Threw 46 INTs to 31 TDs (a whopping 1.48 ratio)
Ramsey has thrown 28 INTs to 33 TDs (a low 0.85 ratio)

Again as a fan it helps to look at facts because NO ONE can see clearly with a biased view.

I picked Carr and Harrington for obvious reason (same draft and round), but I add Troy and Steve to DRIVE THE POINT HOME THAT RAMSEY DOESN'T THROW A LOT OF INTs for a young QB

Well said skins fan#33. patricks first year stats shouldn't
even be considered since due to our badly injured offensive
line patrick can't throw the ball while lying on his butt!
That coupled with the fact the QB controversy last year forced ramsey to make throws that we all know he wish he hadn't.We all saw him try too hard to prove something instead of relax,concentrate,and do the best he could with the players he was given.And let's not forget on many occations our recievers couldn't remember their routes,or catch a cold ,let alone the ball.So if your going to pick,look at the WHOLE picture.

you are right. What I am sayin is this. Is Ramsey playing better than Brunell right now. Is he taking better control of the offense than Brunell? Does he look more comfortable in the pocket? Is he making smarter decisions. Right now I would say he isnt with all of those questions. If I was gibbs I start Ramsey next week again. If no improvement is shown and Brunell still looks crisp again then I would start Brunell but...but...If he doesnt perform I would pull him out a lot faster than last year. I believe that this is how it will go down as far as our qb controversey.

skinsfan#33 wrote:To all you people that think Ramsey will never develope into a good QB because he throws a lot of INTs I have several names for:

David Carr, Joey Harrington, Steve Young and Troy Aikman - THEY ALL HAD WORSE INT to TD ratios than Ramsey through their first three seasons.

Carr has thrown 42 INTs to 34 TDs (a 1.24 ratio) (higher is bad)
Harrington has thrown 50 INTs to 48 TDs (a 1.04 ratio)
Young threw 21 INTs to 22TDs (a 0.95 ratio)
Aikman Threw 46 INTs to 31 TDs (a whopping 1.48 ratio)
Ramsey has thrown 28 INTs to 33 TDs (a low 0.85 ratio)

Again as a fan it helps to look at facts because NO ONE can see clearly with a biased view.

I picked Carr and Harrington for obvious reason (same draft and round), but I add Troy and Steve to DRIVE THE POINT HOME THAT RAMSEY DOESN'T THROW A LOT OF INTs for a young QB

Yeah, that's surprising, especially the number of TD passes because he hasn't played in half of the 'Skins' games over those three seasons. That's a lot of TDs.

I just think everyone is making this more complicated then it is…Gibbs is doing the right thing. Remember Ramsey is not his guy. So he’s going to give Ramsey his shot. Ramsey will start against Chicago if he plays well he’ll start down in Dallas. If he plays poorly against Chicago, he’ll still start in Dallas but he’ll be on a short leash, easier for Gibbs to pull him on the road. If Brunell plays well Ramsey will never see the field again and will be released in the off-season. Simply put it time for Ramsey to perform.

I just have to add here that, while Ramsey may not be showing us indications of an amazing upcoming season, we still need to believe in him if at least for a few reg. season games.


Like DE said, I believe that Ramsey will have a limited number of starts to show something positive. If we get off to a bad start in our first 2 or 3 games, we go to our backup. But 1 - 1.5 quarters in a preseason game (without some starters on both teams as well) is not enough for me to dump him. Ramsey is still finding his tandem with our new receivers, and they are hooking up better now than they were even a few weeks ago, IMO. Look for that to continue. Portis will rush for 1,500+ yards, and that will also take some heat off Ramsey.


But don't forget that Brunell has not shown much more than Ramsey in the preseason so far. Those of you calling for Ramsey to be replaced by Brunell need to be reminded that Brunell has been playing against 2nd and 3rd stringers - not really fair to say he's been performing much better than Ramsey.


Don't get me wrong - Ramsey still has some work to do (quite a bit, in fact) to prove that he is worthy of leading this team for a whole season - but I still believe he is capable. He may continue to throw interceptions, but who doesn't? Do people call for Favre's head every time (and that's pretty often) he throws an INT? Of course, Ramsey is no Favre, but if he wins games for us, who cares about the INT-TD ratio?

Despite wearing the mantle of being the worst "homer" at this site (according to someone who has not demonstrated an iota of common sense this past offseason!) I am with those who seem to understand that the QB situation here this year is what it is and we are possibly not going to like what we see but that is the cards we have, for now.

I am very hopeful that a number of factors this year might lead to a far better performance by the offense and I am still convinced we will be in the playoffs. Admittedly this feeling is more because there are a lot of mediocre teams than because we deserve to be there. This is also because we have 2 really great coaches in Greg and Joe.

I think that as competitive as Joe is that he wants to win at all times on all fields but he is also trying to right the foundering franchise that was in complete disarray only last year. This will take time and he will make it successful because that is what he is driven to do. He will do his best to make Patrick be as good as he can be and that may not be good enough. We will have to wait and see because these are our QBs and I believe that they deserve our support.

Gibbs is doing what he can for the now but he is also looking ahead IMO and we will see more growing pains as we slowly get back to the top. It may be as I pointed out that Patrick is not going to be good enough but I think we have a better chance of him becoming a decent QB than Mark and at this stage I think that Joe wants to keep Jason off the field until he thinks he can do it. I would be very surprised if we see him get much playing time this year. If that happens it is because we are not going anywhere!

Gibbs is trying to do the best he can with who he has but he is also looking much further ahead than we all are. There are a lot of expectations as usual here and we should be looking on the bright side rather than predicting a lost cause as some here are.

I probably am placing a lot of faith in Joe and the other coaches but I think that he has earned that and I am very confident (I'm a homer!) that he will make it happen here and hopefully this year.